There is no doubt that the UN convention is hopelessly out of date, that it relies too much on the subjective views of claimants and more than anything has been repeatedly used by those who wish to game the system to achieve an immigration outcome rather than to
seek "refuge".

The biggest losers here are the Greens and their fellow travellers who have been playing the compassion card well past its useby date because now even those who are genuinely persecuted are considered to be scammers trying to game the system.

An Indonesian boat with an Indonesian crew decides to just pop over to Australia. Pray tell Lionel why we have to accept that boat?
Also the Tampa collected people in peril who promptly threatened the Captain into changing his course to where they wanted to go. Perhaps you can tell me their attributes to be our fellow citizens Lionel.
First thing take the lawyers out of the equation and see how easy it is to get some sense back into this debacle.

It is a bitter irony that some of the asylum seekers come from countries where the Australian military, in cahoots with the warmongering Americans, is using military force against them.

If we contribute to the reasons why they flee their countries then it seems to me that we have some obligations to look after them should they turn up here.

Of course, if Australia abandoned its ridiculous, servile 'All the way with the U.S.A.' policy we might be able to see the stupidity and irrationality of some of our policies.

We should be dropping the politically correct 'asylum seeker' that has been used very cleverly by the victim industry of lawyers and advocates with their snouts in the trough of taxpayers' money.

They are illegal immigrants.

Info below copied from Australian AUSAID Government website:
Australia has invested $1,378 million in Indonesia over the previous three years. Our investment has contributed to important development results including:
•connecting approximately 623,149 people to piped water systems and over 110,217 people to basic sanitation or a sewerage connection
•creating around 330,000 new school places, by building or extending 2,000 junior secondary schools
•ensuring an additional 56,713 births were attended by a skilled health worker and providing training for 5,365 health professionals.

More on results can be viewed under the ‘See our results’ tab above.
......................................................................................................................................

Why are we contributing these funds when all we need do is throw open our borders? The Indos can make a killing (pun intended) from the leaky boat travel industry and we can spend the money on resettling these poor misunderstood refugees. Identity and background checks no longer required. No more lengthy expensive legal processes funded by the taxpayer. (Big saving) A few upset lawyers maybe, but we all must make sacrifices ...

So, no more detention (more saving) but also no immediate Government welfare - rather similar welfare entitlements New Zealand citizens attract on moving across the ditch. That would be fair. So either "refugees" live off savings short term or find work. (HUGE saving) Finding labour for seasonal or unpopular jobs would become a thing of the past ...

Housing? Well - you come here uninvited - take your chances. Join the queue like the rest of the populace. There's a park, buy a tent.

Oh .... You don't want to be here anymore? WHAT A SHAME!

Why wouldn't we attract every man and his dog wanting a good life - on the teat of the Australian welfare system in many cases - because it's a better deal than working where they came from? Be interesting how many "Asylum seekers" would suddenly find the 'safety' of our shores so much less attractive if they were required to self fund on arrival or live and work under Federal directive for the first 2 years as requirement for permanent residence/citizenship?

divine_msn,

Is that $1,378 million (over three years) correct or a typo?

If it's correct then:

Wow, that's gonna break the bank!

Sooner or later we are going to have to treat these boats as part of the invading fleet that really are,

That is when we will have to start sinking by gunfire, any boat that doesn't leave Australian waters when ordered to do so.

It would probably take the sinking of 2 or 3 to stop the trade, which would result in less loss of life of these illegals than the Rudd open border policy has caused.

It really is time to take the gloves off, & get serious.

Time also to get serious with this fifth column in Oz who want to destroy everything good we have developed with their attitude, like this fool.

Hasbeen,

"That is when we will have to start sinking by gunfire, any boat that doesn't leave Australian waters when ordered to do so.

It would probably take the sinking of 2 or 3 to stop the trade, which would result in less loss of life of these illegals than the Rudd open border policy has caused.

It really is time to take the gloves off, & get serious."

I've been wondering who blokes like you remind me of....

Finally, it dawns on me.

http://myblairmore.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/16-yosemite-sam-mustach.jpg?w=490

& you Poirot remind me of a couple of rat bag harpies from the south.

Too damn dumb to know what is good for you.

Lionel: While I share sentiments, such as "military alliances has been a root cause", and while I will give the benefit of doubt that compassion fills you heart, it is clear that your head is empty of rational argument. As you wilfully ignore economic migrants who employ criminals, and you engage in emotional blackmail (no "modicum of conscience"), I will reply in personal terms. My forbearers were honest working class Australians, and I have been working and paying taxes since I was 15.I am now 83, and still paying tax. I do not receive a pension. Don't you understand the resentment of people in the real world, when you bully us to provide for illegal economic migrants. And look at the deplorable conditions in our nursing homes.

Poirot - Quote
"Is that $1,378 million (over three years) correct or a typo?

If it's correct then:

Wow, that's gonna break the bank!"

Very naive outlook, I believe MOST Australians see it another way.

I see it like you give money to a beggar meanwhile he is kicking you in the nuts, sending his relatives to your house to live at your expense, meanwhile using your bank account to hire lawyers to sue you because he wants more and to add insult you sent a taxi to bring him to your house.

Philip S,

Oh really,

I've seen it quoted that it's going to cost $1.35 billion per year to lock up 3,000 in the expanded Manus Island detention centre - as opposed to $31 million to process them "humanely" in Australia.

Don't feed me that guff about wanting to save taxpayer's money.

I would give money to a beggar.

(I don't have "nuts")

Poirot - Quote "as opposed to $31 million to process them "humanely" in Australia."

Then after you process them THOUSANDS more come then they bring the relatives etc, then they tell others how to beat the system meanwhile all this at taxpayers expense.

Nothing like the GOVERNMENT statistic 85% still on welfare after being here over 5 years.

Quote "I would give money to a beggar." the same beggar every day for life I DON'T BELIEVE YOU and the beggars friends are waiting for you to give them money as well again I DON'T BELIEVE YOU.

And out trot the usual suspects with the usual lies while Australia uses innocent people as pawns in their sick brutal lies to win the racist votes.

What is wrong with this ridiculous country that people who can write on the web are just too lazy to find out the facts.

6.5 million new displaced people last year alone, our only response is how to help less and waste billions more doing it.

Marilyn,

<<What is wrong with this ridiculous country that people who can write on the web are just too lazy to find out the facts>>

If the facts are so easy to come by, how is it you haven't been able to find them?
I haven't seen a single post of yours yet which was strong on facts.

<<6.5 million new displaced people last year alone>>

Displaced does NOT equal refugee.

The Victorian fires and the Qld floods displaced thousands --but none of them thought it entitled them to refugee freebies in the USA.

Marilyn Shepherd Quote "And out trot the usual suspects with the usual lies" Like usual YOU make an outlandish statement without evidence or examples to backup your argument or lack of one.

Who are the usual suspects?
What are the lies?

To quote you again "people who can write on the web are just too lazy to find out the facts." With my above questions it poses the question are you including yourself in your statement?

Please note "usual suspects" means more than one.

Poirot - maybe $1,378 million looks more impressive when expressed numerically $1,378,000,000 or as 1.378 billion.

You must be a very rich person if this seems like just a bit of petty cash? To me it's a lot of money which could be used to great effect here. What I was insinuating is the Indonesian Govt has little interest in halting the boats, despite our generosity, as certain Indonesians are making a handsome profit out of the human trafficking. There is ample evidence to suggest the involvement of police, army and others in senior positions.

However I'd love to hear your response to my suggestion that our "Asylum Seekers" be put into the community (after the most basic health and security checks) and be required to live off savings or get paid work immediately to support themselves AND be treated exactly like Australian citizens waiting for housing. Or be required to live and work in certain areas to fill shortages or hasten regional development as a prerequisite to permanent residence?

I've a feeling such 'harsh' measures would somewhat diminish the attractiveness of Australia as a refuge but it would be fair all the same. Safety (#1 priority isn't it?), opportunity to start afresh and contribute to their new home. As it is - if you as an Australian citizen have no concerns, whether holding great sympathy or none whatsoever, afraid for the safety of the travellers and our Navy personal called to rescues (genuine or faked)or not, at the unauthorised, uncontrolled arrival of foreign nationals in the thousands, then I suggest you are in the minority.

When both major political parties are putting forward their plans to STOP the boats, that tells me they, pushed by the demands of the voting majority have had enough.

I don't write things that are not facts. Racists who openly advocate murder though should be arrested and jailed.

Can't wait to see the reaction on the asylum seekers faces when they arrive to one of those dancing welcoming parties on PNG. Maybe they will be made citizens on arrival and given a little grass hut. They really can't complain as they are out of harms way and safe.

Marylin Shepherd please tell us on "Online Opinion" and the "Advertiser newspaper" what you are actually doing here in Australia to help these refugees, have you taken any into your home as boarders, seriously we would all like to know, we hear your bleatings as to how wrong we all are except yourself.
All people I communicate with all say the same thing whether in jest or otherwise send then back from whence they came,drown them at sea, or get on the correct refugee cue and wait your turn.
Have you ever been in the streets of Adelaide these cold nights and seen people sleeping only with a rug on cold cement, Marylin forget about these cue jumpers and like Leslie hinted at, get your act into gear and invite these poor people into your home and help them, they need help, throughout Australia there are thousands living in squalid conditions, not like demanding cue jumpers in leaky boats who demand once here Social Security payments, housing, mobile phones, big TV's, Lawyers etc, I ask you, why wouldn't you want to come here and bring all your own baggage with you including relatives and your Sharia Law, perhaps I could head to Japan in a leaky boat and say I am an asylum seeker, I know where I would end up, right back from whence I came post haste in my leaky boat.
GET ON THE ASYLUM SEEKER CORRECT CUE AND YOU WILL BE WELCOMED WITH OPEN ARMS, I AM SURE BY ALL AUSTRALIANS, except Marylin Shepherd who prefers the illegal way of bringing refugees into Australia, perhaps when her status as a woman is number three behind men she then will be writing to say how wrong that is.

News travels fast. Already they are rioting on Nauru in response to Rudd's announcement.

Marilyn Shepherd obviously you failed to see or or were unable to answer my post to you so here it is again, YOU made the allegation so back it up.

Quote "And out trot the usual suspects with the usual lies" Like usual YOU make an outlandish statement without evidence or examples to backup your argument or lack of one.

Who are the usual suspects?
What are the lies?

To quote you again "people who can write on the web are just too lazy to find out the facts." With my above questions it poses the question are you including yourself in your statement?

Please note "usual suspects" means more than one.

ozzie - If what you say is correct it is proof that what people have said is right - THESE are not the type of so called good citizens we want here deport them.

I have an idea, why don't we accept some of the smarter asylum seekers & swap them for the marilyns, the Paul 1405s, the Poirots et al.
That might end up a better deal all round.

individual's idea of "smart" is anyone who agrees with him.

Individual.

The PNG government may not be that smart, but I think they would be smart enough to reject that swap your suggesting. I think most of the PNG population would be rioting if you made any suggestion that they would have to accept Marilyn.

Lionel Bopage indirectly admits that the Australian people are fed up of illegal immigrants, and that this is now a major election issue which even the stupid Labor Party has flashed on. He tries to blame the sinking of one boat (SIEV X) on the "ruthless intervention" of Australian government through a novel interpretation of logic and failed miserably. His position seems to be that anyone who calls themselves a "refugee" should hop on the nearest boat and come to Australia. Naturally, the overwhelming majority of Australians oppose that idiotic idea.

The fact that his fringe group attitudes are opposed by the overwhelming majority of the electorate is a real problem to Lionel. His response, is to argue a case which is so potty that only people with disordered minds like Suseionlime, Marilyn Shepperd, Arjay, or David G could take it seriously. He claims that the refugee problem is a direct result of western interference in those countries, therefore the west has an obligation to take refugees from every country, even those which in the west quite obviously did not interfere. This is an concept that I completely reject. If every one of these strife torn countries is a multicultural cesspit, then obviously there is something wrong with multiculturalism. Wanting Australia to emulate proven failure looks potty to me. And Lionel's peculiar logic that the west must help refugees regardless of western involvement in these multicultural cesspits, looks like the west is damned if it does, and damned if it doesn't. No matter what the western world does, Lionel will find some logic to blame it and demand that we clean up the mess.

Short of a logical argument, Lionell tries "Human Rights", but this increasingly discredited concept is on the nose with most people in the west, because people like Lionel will always use 'Human Rights" to attack the interests of their own people, and protect the interests of criminals, terrorists and illegal immigrants.

Poirot>> Is that $1,378 million (over three years) correct or a typo?

If it's correct then:

Wow, that's gonna break the bank!<<

The point is P, that Indonesia has not returned us "one cent" in reciprocal effort or shown any interest in helping us with the illegal economic criminals who throw their papers and cares away between Indonesia and Australia.

Well, Rudd has checkmated Abbott in a brilliant move. Abbot looks like a man who has lost his mojo or has just been neutered!

Rudd can run rings around Abbott though how he would handle Turnbull should Tony be knifed is unknown.

Of course, Turnbull is a product of the Big End of town. Not for him the struggles of the man in the street. All the over-paid directors and investors are praying that he will lead the Coalition to victory.

Of course, Rudd once struggled (but, because of his wife, no more) but surely the memories of those times will keep him in touch with ordinary people.

Bring on the election.

David G>> Of course, Rudd once struggled (but, because of his wife, no more) but surely the memories of those times will keep him in touch with ordinary people<<

David we are talking about Kevin Rudd from Queensland,….can’t be, must be another Rudd.

>RAAF cabin stewardess:
Sorry Mr Rudd we don’t have that meal on this flight.

> Kevin Rudd:
Who the fork do you think you are, I’m the Prime Minister and I want my lunch!

>RAAF cabin stewardess:
It is not my fault Mr Rudd that we don’t have that meal on this flight.

> Kevin Rudd:
Where are my truffles, where are the forking quails eggs…. Do you know who I am? I’m the prime Minister and I want my lunch!

Recall that David just a few years back? David you mean less to Rudd than the ear wax he syphons out just after shaving for Australia on youtube

David G, Rudd's New Guinea solution is just another pie in the sky bit of fluff, until he gets the greens to vote for it. Even then it would have to get past a few high court challenges, unless he rejects the UN agreement. There is a fat chance of him doing anything anti UN, when he still harbors dreams of becoming lord of the earth through it.

Yep the agreement is not worth the paper it's printed on, just like the Timor & the Malaysia solutions before them.

He will have to go to an election damn quick, if he wants this sleight of hand to still hold water, & I doubt he could get there quickly enough.

Just perhaps some people will wonder at his ethics, when they realize he has none. He is starting to make the witch look like a saint.

Waiting Marylin Shepard for your answer, I think I will be waiting a long time though.
When the Italian, English and Greek people as immigrants arrived in the 1950's, they worked hard, did not grizzle and expect hand outs by the Government like the illegal boat people, the English people also lived in Nissan huts at Gepps Cross and accepted those conditions, Marylin I do hope you are opening your bank account to make all of your loved illegal immigrants happy with all the mod cons that they demand, come on now, don't be tight with your money and show to the rest of the community just how much you care for your illegal and loved boat people. Perhaps Sarah Hanson Young may help you out by opening her purse strings as well.

Ojnab,
Don't despair, lexi won't be long before she pulls one of her links out of some obscure official website. Marilyn will be feeling off the hook & will come back with yet more nonsensical quibbing. why can't she be put out of our misery ?

If you think we have a refugee problem now you'd better hope that people affected by the continuing debacle called Fukushima, don't realise how dire the situation really is.

I read on Russia Today that Obama is getting ready to attack Syria. Russia has drawn a line in the sand and Putin has said he won't let another Libya happen. This could start WW3.We have let the lunatics run the asylum and are constantly distracted by media trivia such as this.

What happens when a few million people turn up in boats to escape radiation?

Arjay thank goodness we have people like yourself reading other countries articles on world problems, instead of the one sided garbage we have to put up with via the Murdoch press.

Abbott is not neutered by this move at all. He just says OK and he will go along with it. Either way PNG will want to double dip or even triple dip and then drop us in it, whether it is Rudd or Abbott. They all know this lol.
This is a good idea as seriously who would come on a boat and be transported to PNG.
Here is a solution for Europe pay some really lovely poor country to accept "refugees". Just finding the country will be the problem.
After all the Lebanese accepted the Palestinians and now look.

RUDD GOT WHAT HE WANTED FROM INDONESIA


Rudd wanted SBY to tell him Australia was defenceless against the will of Indonesia and its people smugglers. He wanted to be told our defence forces should not attempt to defend our borders. He got what he wanted and at the cost of a simple rebuff to Abbott.
Involving other countries in Australia ’s domestic politics is a very dangerous ploy, but this is Kevin Rudd and Kevin is preoccupied with Kevin, not the interests of Australia .
Rudd (the Asian expert) should understand that the overarching political concern of Asians is the potential loss of face. To lose face is the epitome of cowardice and loss of respect.
Kevin Rudd has just given Australia that reputation and he has given it to those who know exactly what it means.
it means.
That is the measure of this man. He has confirmed Indonesia ’s claim that Australia (UNDER LABOR) is an international coward and will accept being told it should be unwilling to defend its borders... all for a cheap point-score in domestic electioneering.
But SBY is also in election mode and although the average Indonesian voter couldn’t give a damn about our boat invasion, that voter will be in awe of a strongman President who can so easily dictate another foreign power’s defence policy.
Let’s get this straight (and I’m no hawk) but these are Indonesian boats, under Indonesian flags, with Indonesian captains that continue to leave from Indonesian ports with tens of thousands of illegal immigrants who have flown into Indonesian airports and Rudd asks Indonesia’s President to, “Please confirm you don’t want us to turn these boats back!” Crumbs! Tbc.

At the same time we gift billions to this corrupt Islamic nation that has wealth beyond ours, the world’s fastest growth of billionaires and a military and bureaucracy that amass huge profits by virtue of breaching our borders. WTF am I missing here?
Rudd will of course confirm that all parties are now to embark on a “regional solution”. What a load of frog droppings! This is not a “regional problem”, it never was, it is an “Indonesian problem” and it should be dealt with from a position of strength!
“Regional” is a politic word meaning, “to dissipate responsibility”. “To involve others who are not really involved because it then appears it’s not our lack of resolve alone.”
Until Australia has a leader who will not cravenly cower to another foreign power's interests, until we have a leader who will cultivate respect for Australia ’s sovereignty, then we remain dangerously exposed.
No nation has ever respected another nation's weakness... least of all an Asian nation.
If you didn’t like Rudd initially, you now have it confirmed in spades exactly why you didn’t

I need to clarify that the two above posts are not my writing at all, they were sent to me in an email.
When I posted them I somehow missed copying that explanation.
Full credit to whoever wrote this.

The election and the Australian people will determine the outcomes for irregular arrivals. Not the rabid rabble rousers!
We can accept more asylum seekers, than we do now.
But it must be done in an orderly manner and from those who have waited the longest.
There are some 45 million displaced persons in the world, waiting in camps for some sort of compassionate outcome.
Currently, only three countries are accepting significant numbers of asylum seekers. Canada, the US and Australia, and daylight after that!
145 nations are signatories to the UN 1951 convention on asylum seekers. A document drawn up to end the possibility of another Jewish holocaust.
A problem compounded by the sheer number of pre war nations, including us, who turned their backs on this genocide.
However, we and all other signatories, watched as the Cambodian, Rwandan and other genocides took place, without better late than never, Balkans style intervention.
We need all the other signatories to step up to the mark, rather than leave it to others!
Therefore, this treaty needed to be reworked, so as to provide this tide of human misery, safe sanctuary; and indeed, make intervention not only possible, but perhaps mandatory. In which case, the safe sanctuary, would be provided where they live now!
Rhrosty.

Rhosty,
There's only one factor you've overlooked. When countries step in & employ the required force to fight the injustices that you speak of then the do-gooders jump up & down screaming illegal invasion ! When they don't step in we get the likes of you jumping up & down accusing others for not stepping in. Which is it to be ? I'd prefer no refugees in the first place. Just ask those 45 million, they'll give you the same answer. Go in & help people not becoming refugees & you have the ignorant do-gooders calling you all sorts of names.
I say to sort out these problems we must first start a war on stupidity. Every country fights their own stupid & presto, no more refugees.
Australia can win it's war soon by voting out the Dudd & his moron followers.

Again I will make the comment. STOP GIVING FINANCIAL AID TO INDONESIA! why, oh why cannot you people see that we are being shafted by this evil corrupt nation? You are as blind to this as to the flat beer tipped into a new bottle prime minister being the saviour at the next election. The ALP have caused this country more grief since they gained power than the illegals have. Wake up to yourselves, do not contribute further to our decline by putting these goofy goons and their green idiot partners in charge of the china shop.
WAKE UP!
Cliffy

Cliffy, this is part of the UN Agenda 21 plan that all parties including the Greens have all signed off on. Google Senator Ann Bressington and Agenda 21.For a long time she did not believe the treachery that our pollies have perpetrated upon us.