Brian Holden wrote "Consider the nature of time:"

Actually Brian you need to expand your understanding of time even futher...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDAJinQL2c0

So...its 'space_time_ continuum'...in this we humans understand 'space' well...as all our senses is designed to be aware of 'space'...as in our bodies and the environment space we find ourselves in...

but our time perspective is very limited...no rephrase that...miniscule...we have a clock thats based on earths time to take one complete rotation around the sun...and we link our life and experience to the linear time scale of this...

but 'time' is much much more...its 3-axis based ie x, y and z...meaning its got past , present and future(x _axis)...and in each of these there is Y_axis where it can speed up or slow, and multiple variations within each time moments(z_axis)...thats the best explanation I can give to this poorly understood area of science...

so basically Star Trek tv plots have lots of scientific factual possibilities...like warp field, and temporal time travel etc...all in the 'time' area...even 'antimatter' and 'dark energy'...

so more entrenched we are in 'space' as is own house, car, tv, money the further we move away from 'time' and its marvels therein...and sooner we become dodos...

sam

Let's cut to the chase. Humans are destined for dodo-hood because they are simply too stupid, too greedy and too barbaric/primitive.

They are a blight upon the world and all other creatures and their extinction cannot come soon enough.

Do you want proof? Consider the 20 to 30 million people that the imperial U.S. has killed since WW2 ended in its attempt to dominate the Earth or reflect upon the number of nukes in existence in the hands of psychopaths which could turn our lush planet into a replica of the Moon!

The name is Planck not Plank. We are simultaneously gods and dodos. Newton had a mastery of mechanics, optics and energy but spent the last part of his life pursuing various theological will of the wisps. St. Augustine's speculations on time and space were profound yet he supported the idea of original sin. This was apparently due to his neurotic guilt. In his Confessions he mentions stealing pears from an orchard as a teenager. In addition to his guilt at having normal sexual instincts he was haunted by the memory of stealing fruit.

Eventually we will become as extinct as the dodo. Until then we will continue to combine sense with nonsense.

What a daft question.

>>Is our destiny to become gods or dodos?<<

If we have learnt anything about our tiny, tiny world, is that it had a beginning, and will inevitably have an end.

The beginning was pretty boring. In Wikipedia's words, it went something like this:

"In a process known as runaway accretion, successively larger fragments of dust and debris clumped together to form planets. Earth formed in this manner about 4.54 billion years ago".

Its final moments will be slightly more spectacular. The most likely scenario is that we will be absorbed back into the sun as it decays into a red giant that encompasses the entire inner solar system. Would make a stunning movie, one suspects.

Clearly, we don't have an indefinite future anyway. Long before the fiery absorption of our planet, our atmosphere will have boiled away completely, despite the efforts of all those earnest members of the climate-change brigade. The population will inevitably blame the government of the time for doing too little, too late. Or they will blame immigration policy/uranium mining/gay rights/woodchipping etc. .

Nothing changes that much, after all.

But frivolity aside, I imagine that Mr Holden's underlying question is whether we will in some way hasten our own extinction, before the universe does it for us.

Once again the answer must be yes, we will, although the exact means is still open to some considerable speculation. Whatever the procees turns out to be, the population will inevitably blame the government of the time for doing too little, too late. Or they will blame immigration policy/uranium mining/gay rights/woodchipping etc.

Nothing changes that much, after all.

Dear Brian,

I have some really serious concerns about you, your article and the imputations therein.

We are witness to the devastation inflicted on our education system, our universities and our ability to broaden and apply our sciences, that damage has been wrought by the “socialization” of science by humanities.

I cannot get past your attempts to socialize, misinterpret or otherwise distort the founders of modern physics.

Your reference to Albert Einstein that “His idea has enabled more clever people to discover that our minds can influence subatomic particles as if they and we are part of the same thought. Our minds and matter as one! Consciousness as the ground state of the universe!”

What on earth is that all about? Who are these “more clever people” and what precisely are they saying?

Are you suggesting that because modern physics can prove that all matter is comprised of the elements from Mendelyev’s Periodic Table that therefore, one of the products of that matter, our brains, can impact upon the composite of sub-atomic particles, some of which either no longer exist or require a Large Hedron Collider to produce? Oh dear Brian.

You go on to say about Einstein, “He concluded that it could be stretched - but if time stretched, then empty space (which he defined as the distance between two localities) had to shrink.

I think you are mixing up theories here?

In his theory of relativity he suggests that time/light in the particle theory of the properties of light, can be distorted/bent by gravitational forces?

Your reference to “stretched” refers (I think), to special relativity and the concept of matter being stretched on approach to and beyond the ultimate limit of light speed? The reason for this being that matter, through its sub-atomic particles, communicates at the speed of light therefore, beyond the speed of light they cannot communicate and physics (as we know it) breaks down.

You appear to be mixing gravitational, standard model and quantum principles however, I have no idea why you would chose to do this?

I think you are losing the plot Brian.

Speaking of the subjective nature of time and how it varies from culture to culture, and in different epochs of human history too, the book introduced here is one of the most fascinating that I have ever read. As indeed is the overall work of its author.

http://www.foet.org/books/time-wars.html

The work of these authors is very useful too:
http://www.edwardthall.com
http://www.patternlanguage.com
http://generalsemantics.org

"Is our destiny to become gods or dodos?"

It is a daft question because if, as you tell us, "...every event that has ever happened and every event that ever will happen, are here with us right now." Then surely we already know the answer?

Which is: Some of 'us' have become gods and some of 'them' have become dodos.

Hi Daffy,

The links you provided were: how can I put this nicely? Interesting, as in the Chinese Curse.

I really don’t understand what it is you get out of such links? They may well be “the most fascinating that (you) have ever read but why?

Is there a point? A perspective? An opinion? Is there something you think is relevant to anything? What does this “subjective opinion” mean to you and more importantly, what do you think others might think of these links?

Whilst do I think Brian has lost the plot, all you offer is confirmation that he is not alone.

What are you saying, what is your opinion, what point are you trying to make? Surely there is something between your ears?

You remind me of a WWII soldier behind the sandbags, leaping up periodically, pulling the pin and lobbing an explosive device that consistently fails to go off!

What on earth is the “cultural significance of time in relation to culture”? What are you on?

Surely you have something to add, so what is it?

moving away from dodos dead end...

Quantum physics is study of subatomic particles...

for the uninitiated...take any object and divide by half...and keep going...what is the end...till the 50's it was assumed there is an end to division...and that was at the atomic level...

since increasing evidence showed that atoms were made up of further particles...and research continues...

BUT at this level the studies showed an abnormal variability to observations even when all parameters were kept constant in the test...repeatability is an important aspect of any research...

and it seems presence of a mind observing the results was affecting the results...thats the basics...so your mind...or specifically consciousnesses...can affect matter...

now enjoy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yNoUTPRbl0

sam

Hi Sam said,

“Quantum physics is study of subatomic particles...”

Really? So what does the Standard Model study? It is the Standard Model that defined the parts of the Nucleus as Protons and Neutrons; It also defined the math behind “some” of the particles that comprise Protons and Neutrons, Quarks, the Up, Down, Top, Bottom, Strange and Charm.

Quantum studies the same sub atomic particles and was used to mathematically predict the existence of another six particles known as Leptons, the last of which was created and identified at CERN in February 2012. Namely the Higgs Particle.

“for the uninitiated...take any object and divide by half...and keep going...what is the end...till the 50's it was assumed there is an end to division...and that was at the atomic level...”

I don’t think so. The Inverse Square Law applies only to the “Electroweak” theory which binds electrons to the nucleus by an electro magnetic field or “weak force”. The ISL states that for each unit of distance the force reduces by a factor of 2 in the two dimensional model and by a factor 4 in the three dimensional model.

“BUT at this level the studies showed an abnormal variability to observations even when all parameters were kept constant in the test...repeatability is an important aspect of any research..”.

Utter nonsense, the quantum math had absolutely NO variability. On the contrary, each of the 86 models tested to date have been proven to a factor of 10 to the power of 24, some to the power of 34. This was long before the particles were detected in the LHC.

And so to your final assertion. “and it seems presence of a mind observing the results was affecting the results...thats the basics...so your mind...or specifically consciousnesses...can affect matter..”.

Unless the mind can generate about 16 Tera E/V (Electron Volts) and emit this at 9.9999 of light speed, as does the LHC, you cannot generate any of the particles that change “charge”, “Spin” or “Mass”.

Sam, its time you went to school and stop driveling

This is a key issue with humanity; on the one hand are the misanthropes like DavidG who obviously hate humanity and wish humans would become extinct; on the other end to this pathological view are those who would like humans to spread beyond the Earth and explore the Universe.

Right now the Zeitgeist is with DavidG with the vile AGW scam and therein the idea that humans should be constrained by natural limitations like any other animal or as DavidG would argue, pestilence.

Personally, I would like humans to spread beyond Earth; with some areas of science not yet contaminated by the AGW disease hopefully the next step to enable such a 'spread' is not far away.

I think that 'Eureka" moment will come from quantum mechanics; one such way may be that the distance of space can be conquered by overcoming the Einstein-Podolski-Rosen (EPR) paradox.

EPR shows instantaneous 'communication' between sub-atomic particles over vast distances thus contradicting the relativistic speed of light constraint.

The problem to be overcome is that EPR cannot be used to send signals faster than light because the values of the experiment at each end are still random beyond the constraints imposed by the conservation
laws.

When the AGW scam is buried and the misanthropes are relegated back to the fringe where they belong I hope the infectious optimism that science had in the 60's can be returned.

Cohenite tells us that: "Personally, I would like humans to spread beyond Earth."

Why he uses 'personally' when he is using the pronoun 'I', I don't know. But then he is a lawyer I believe and they usually charge by the word.

As to his opinion, I can but wonder why he would want to spread the murderous human plague to other universes. Perhaps he sees merit in starving half a million kids to death via sanctions (in Iraq). Perhaps he sees beauty in the sixty-plus years of occupation and genocide by Israel of the Palestinians.

He may also think that the killing of 20-30 million people by the U.S. since ww2 ended is also a triumph of human achievement. Who knows what he thinks of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, perhaps that humans are gods?

And torture and rendition, they must be high on his list of things that should be spread across the universe!

Why humans would want to spread their barbarity and cruelty elsewhere beats me! Hiding it seems a better option.

cohenite, I share your optimism for the human race. We are made of the stars and as such we have the same boundless potential.

I don’t pretend to understand the profound self loathing exhibited by creatures such as David G, nor do I understand the need to reflect that infliction upon the rest of humanity.

It seems so unnatural. There are about 4.3 million biological variants on our planet besides us. Human sentience includes the ability to distinguish right from wrong and most of our species do just that.

Perhaps if we stopped crediting David G with being human we might get a better understanding of his species, he may even turn out to be an alien?

Either way, long may the David G’s of this planet remain a very small and shrinking minority.

Spindoc, don't call me a human.

I am a neo-human and there are a number of us on planet Earth who are trying our best to help our primitive brothers and sisters to abandon war and greed and silly religious superstitions and instead embrace peace, caring and compassion.

The thing that amazes me is that people like you can't see how ugly humans are in the main. The human ego has much to do with it plus a perverse, wide-spread willful blindness to glaring human failings and depravities.

Don't give me the human-angel spiel. It doesn't exist!

Open your eyes, man. Confront reality. Embrace nobility.

spindoc, David G must be taking the piss? Surely? If he's not the poor guy needs help. That much loathing is rarely seen outside the ABC:

http://theclimatescepticsparty.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/our-abc-green-narrative.html

Read the comments at the link and the other links provided; I don't know where this comes from.

Perhaps you are right, DG [and the others like him] is an alien and is here because they have invented a solution to EPR and want to stop humanity in its tracks; AGW would be a pretty good method.

our destiny depends purely on our response to the Lord Jesus Christ. Embrace God's forgiveness through Him or suffer the consequences of our sin. To think we can obtain to be gods is mormonism and stupidity. We can choose a loveless tormenting eternity or one of forgiveness, mercy and grace found only in our Creator (the Only true God). Continue to believe lies like that spread by the likes of Dawkins and Hitchens or embrace the truth found in Jesus Christ alone.

spindoc wrote "Sam, its time you went to school and stop driveling"...

gee spindoc...settle...

I cant counter you with established facts...so...the best I can do is say quantum physics is still a new field with more questions than answers...so yes you could be right...or maybe not...

sam

runner; I think you and DG should get together and work something out; after all he believes in an idea, AGW, which in substance is an alternative religion to Christianity.

What a meaningless question, & none of us will be around to see.

I do find the arrogance of those who think anything they do is of any impoetance in the scheme of things rather hard to take.

So lighten up fellers, stick another tank full in the SUV, & go live life to the full.

What the hell does it matter what we end up, if thinking about it is so depressing, the life you have is not worth living.

For gods sake, get a life, & stop gazing at your navel.

Dear Hasbeen,

My navel is beautiful. It is an innie. They are the best kind. Some unfortunately have outies.

However, having an SUV and ignoring the consequences of such vehicles is another form of navel gazing.