The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Asleep at the wheel, accelerating towards the precipice > Comments

Asleep at the wheel, accelerating towards the precipice : Comments

By Geoff Davies, published 29/11/2011

Both the Australian and US Governments are largely captives of the wealthy. They govern mainly for the big corporations.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. Page 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. All
I disagree with so much of this article I hardly know where to begin.

It is yet another restatement of the 'Limits to Growth', Malthusian, end of the world, business is bad, were running out of stuff theme repeated ad nauseum in many similar opinion pieces with few facts to support the idea. The 'we know better' Green lobby is at it again with their fear campaigns.

The world is way better than it was even 20 yrs ago for most of its inhabitants. Sure there are problems, but villifying big business and turning everyone into fearful environmental evangelists isn't the answer to anything.

In my opinion most of the "crises" predicted are generated by vested interest groups and bear little resemblance to actuality. We've been hearing that the world is on the edge for about 20 yrs now. Ho hum.
Posted by Atman, Tuesday, 29 November 2011 8:23:52 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Whether Jared Diamond has exhibited serious flaws in Collapse and other books or whether he has made relatively small errors within the vast amount of material that he covered with his core messages intact, is really moot. It is a diversion to the article and discussion at hand.

The point is that governments are utterly beholden to the profit motive of big business and that we are consequently hooked in to continuous growth, gross antisustainability, and what would appear by all indications, a huge collapse in the near future.

Curmudgeon, after reading your posts above, I’m still not sure whether you agree or disagree with the main tenet of Geoff’s article.
Posted by Ludwig, Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:31:00 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Ludwig said

"The point is that governments are utterly beholden to the profit motive of big business and that we are consequently hooked in to continuous growth, gross antisustainability, and what would appear by all indications, a huge collapse in the near future."

Yes and it is completely and utterly incorrect.

1. Sustainability will increase probably growth.
2. Govts are not beholden to big business any more than they are to the Green movement.
3. There is no evidence for an imminent future 'collapse'. Particularly as no-one can say what it is that is supposed to 'collapse'.

Many people cannot get past their simplistic belief in the limits to growth model. Its appealing, easy and seductively catastophic but wrong.
Posted by Atman, Tuesday, 29 November 2011 9:42:48 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Atman,

If you want to believe that there are no limits to growth then you need to explain how continuous growth is possible in a finite system (the planet Earth). Please enlighten us....
Posted by michael_in_adelaide, Tuesday, 29 November 2011 10:02:21 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
<< Sustainability will increase probably growth. >>

Not sure what you mean Atman. Could you please elaborate.

<< Govts are not beholden to big business any more than they are to the Green movement.>>

Since when have governments been beholden to the green movement?? The current government is beholden to the Greens more so than ever before, but this is a rare situation. And the silly Greens have got scant little interest in winding back population growth and achieving real sustainability in this country, so it seems! The Greens and the green movement are two quite different things!

But successive governments seem to be totally under the thumb of big business and have been for many years, and I can’t see how they can become independent of this enormous bias.

<< There is no evidence for an imminent future 'collapse' >>

Um……..no…… none at all! ( :>|
Posted by Ludwig, Tuesday, 29 November 2011 10:13:58 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Refreshingly frank look at the 'warts and all' truth of our economic and financial situation.

The debt bubble was primed over 3 decades by a cocktail of potentially toxic legislation from negative gearing, deregulation of the banks to over-generous captital gains tax loopholes.

The real issue is how can governments be brought to see and act on warning signs of future catastrophe. There was a ten year period in the late 90's early 2000's when there were plenty of warning signs but no significant debate in parliament, university think tanks or press about the issues and how to tackle them. Ther was time to legislate to prevent the debt bubble

Now all we're getting is 'tut tut Europe and the US, we haven't made the same mistakes, we're all good and we won't fall into the same problems. Unfortunately, our mining boom and better (but not good) Govt debt situation won't make us immune. We still have huge private debt, more than 50% of it on over-valued properties.

Now the question is can this bomb be defused? Perhaps it's too late; the timer has already been set ticking, we now have the bubble and it's too late now to stop the consequences.
Posted by Roses1, Wednesday, 30 November 2011 12:25:04 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. Page 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy