Talking about what men have created and why they created it, and sexual power and its daunting earthly reality, Camille Paglia offers a view worth considering:

"Sex is a far darker power than feminism has admitted....sex has always been girt round with taboo, irrespective of culture. Sex is the point of contact between man and nature, where morality and good intentions fall to primitive urges. I called it an intersection.....Men, bonding together, invented culture as a defence against female nature. Sky-cult was the most sophisticated step in this process, for its switch of the creative focus from earth to sky is a shift from belly-magic to head-magic. And from this head-magic has come the spectacular glory of male civilisation, which has lifted woman with it. The very language and logic modern women use to assail patriarchal culture were the invention of men.....Woman, at first content to accept man's protections but now inflamed with desire for her own illusory freedom, invades man's systems and suppresses her indebtedness to him as she steals them. By head-magic she will deny that there ever was a problem of sex and nature....."

Dane, you say that women are not equal with men. I don't think its a question of equality. Women are an ominous representation and reminder of the power of nature - men have constructed a world to keep nature in abeyance and women have decided they like it too - seems we have a problem.

"So women in modern 'non-sexist' society are being pulled in two opposing directions. On the one hand trying to be like men in order to compete in a men's world, and on the other, trying not to lose their identity as women, which they can only claim by expressing their sexual persona."

Indeed. A very insightful paragraph of this article Ian, of which I am very pleased to see a man as the author.
Mind you, I would not have been surprised to see that it was written by a female author, as it is very close to what most females today know is true.

I am not surprised at the nasty, unhelpful comments from our usual OLO crop of 'good old boys', who see the negative in anything written about females at all... anything!
And now that I have given your' article the tick of approval, watch the extra knives come out...

Don't be discouraged though Ian, because everyone knows that the truth can sometimes be very painful - :)

Cheers,
Suze.

Ian

Thank you for your active participation in this thread. I have written numerous posts asking some male posters to consider that the majority of power still remains with men, policies are still created and approved by a majority of men - what little female input is still in line with same structures that have been in place since the industrial revolution.

The other point I try to make is that men (in general) remain more at risk from other men, than they do from women.

I am under no illusion that women = good; men = bad. Some of the worst bullies I have encountered in the workplace have been women. However, across all sectors of society the bulk of violence is still committed by some men - from the domestic sphere to altercations between strangers. Increased participation by women in the public sphere has resulted in an increase in female instigated violence - no argument from me there. However, this does not mean that men are somehow entitled to an exemption for their own behaviour.

That women also contribute to their own subjugation is true. Women with low self-esteem but physically attractive find 'easy' money to be gleaned from exploiting their bodies in porn, prostitution and strip-clubs, will provide the service for the demand by men to have unconditional sexual gratification. Similar happens to attractive gay men: ironic many of their clients would describe themselves as heterosexual.

There will continue to be a blame game, until more men speak out as you have. We women, need our men to stand by us, not let our daughters,(and sons), sisters and partners be treated as commodities.

Cont'd

Cont'd

Ian I would recommend, if you have the time and patience, to read some of the posting histories of those like Vanna, Dane and others who claim feminism as a movement to take power FROM men rather than sharing with men. I don't like naming names, particularly, however they have made contribution to this thread and if you are not familiar with their views, you may be interested. Of course, you can do the same to myself, Suzeonline and Poirot and make up your own mind.

Squeers

I do appreciate your post. I can only speak for myself, but when I saw the coterie of the usual suspects at the beginning of this thread ennui set in, however I was invigorated by both Ian's participation and your thoughtful comments. I just tire of the inevitable "gender war". I have often been critical of women as well, but this never receives comment, only my criticism of some male behaviour receives attention from the 'good old boys'. Like male on male violence, my less than complimentary views of some women is conveniently ignored.

As a born and bred, dinky-di, heterosexual Aussie bloke, I will just register my appreciation of Ian Robinson's insightful article and subsequent comments. While considerable progress has been made to redress relative inequalities between women and men in Australia, some comments here are evidence that there is still a way go. I have no wish to interact with men (nor indeed women) who still harbour such anachronistic sentiments, either in real life or in online forums.

@ Poirot:

I think that Paglia is on to something in her linkage of women's sexual power to their perceived relative embodiment of Nature's apparent mysteries, but as usual she's let down by a writing style that is at once too combative, but simultaneously a bit too naive. I agree with Squeers that Greer makes similar arguments, but is more credible due to her superior expression of them.

Thanks for the interesting article, Mr Robinson. Don't let the personal attacks from the usual suspects get to you. Given the usual absence of an intellectual counter-argument, that's about all they've got.

[Deleted for abuse and continual harassment of the author.]