Pelican "Trouble is most women don't really know what men want, there are so many mixed messages." My girlfriend has been reading a book called "365 Nights: A Memoir of Intimacy" and I've picked up a copy as well and am now reading it.

http://www.amazon.com/365-Nights-Intimacy-Charla-Muller/dp/B001QFZLPM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1302498232&sr=8-1

I'm about 1/2 way through. An interesting read that explores some of the issues around intimacy in relationship's. The authior has come about as close as I've seen to honestly addressing some of the issues around sexual intimacy for a lot of couples (Holly and his partner excluded).

The messages are mixed in the real world but one message is common from many men in long term relationship's, a lot of women seem to find a lot of other stuff far harder to say no to than physical intimacy with their partner after a few years (and kids) regardless of how good a partner the man might be. Whilst being unhappy with a man might further reduce the chances of sex (or other forms of intimacy) occuring the reverse does not necessarily make sex all that more common.

The book's a worthwhile read if the rest is as honest as what I've hit so far.

R0bert

Houellebecq,
Sorry to inform you of this, but de facto relationships have about 3 times more chance of separation than a marriage.

When the separation occurs, you have a 90% chance of losing the children, and your children may be raised by another man, or will likely live on welfare.

You will also lose the majority of assets, and you will be required to pay the mother child support, while having no say in how that money is spent.

Sorry to inform you of all that, but to continue with that system, there has to be demonisation of fathers.

So there has been demonisation of fathers.

Also note that in the largest study undertaken in Australia to date, children rate the natural father as their most satisfactory parent, while their least satisfactory parent is a step-mother.

So there have been very few studies carried out by social scientists in so-called Australian universities that have actually involved the children.

'Sounds like a good topic for a new thread (what do men want?).....could prove enlightening....'

That would be entertaining.

It's not very difficult though. I have understood what women want since about age 25. I cant for the life of me understand how women cant work men out. If I was a woman I would be merciless in my manipulation of men. Fish in a barrel that lot.

Quick Guide (By no means exclusive)

Men (for Women):

Leave him alone for long periods of time.

Don't nag. He's an adult not one of the kids.

Be assertive in bed. He's un-shockable and no matter how kinky he will be into it too.

Accept that he will only really listen to about 65% of what you say, the rest of the time he is hearing blah blah blah, or trying to remember the score of the 89 Grand Final. Laugh about it.

He doesn't really care about your friends and relatives (He struggles even remembering their names) but he genuinely cares you seem upset by it all.

He doesn't like his parents much either.

Adore and worship his penis.

Women (for Men):

Give her lots of compliments.

She needs to feel sexy and desired before she can be sexy.

She doesn't care what's rational, she just wants you to be on her side.

Random acts of housework and grand gestures distract her from the fact you're not pulling your weight. She knows she's being manipulated but cant help being sucked in.

When you think you're totally in the right and she hasn't got a leg to stand on, its the best time to say sorry anyway. She'll melt at the time and make your favourite dinner, and 3 weeks later she'll quietly admit you were right and thank you.

To Both:

Timing is everything.
Keep track of partner's general emotional state and work with them. ie How are they travelling.
Keep some mystery. For god's sake.
Any insult after 3 in the morning is best forgotten.

What do men want? Who knows! Women? Ditto! What about other transgender/transexual confused types?

My guess - INDIVIDUALS regardless of gender or sexuality have some agenda, some plan - vague or defined or at very least, ideas of what they want in life.

Most want love and companionship with the perception that when they find their 'perfect match' it will be for life. The majority of these couplings will produce children.

Unfortunately, given current trends, almost half will break down. Children will the biggest losers in many cases.

It strikes me that too many people do not communicate effectively during the building phase of relationships. Then years later realise their aims/expectations/values are conflicting. Or couples fail to keep the lines open after the relationship is bedded down and start moving in entirely different directions.

Add de-stigmatising of divorce and single motherhood and the throw-away culture that has evolved in the past 30 - 40 years and there you have it - the disposable family!

I'm not suggesting women or men stay in truly abusive conditions, tolerate infidelity or continue in situations where the partners actions (eg alcohol, drug, gambling addiction, criminality) threaten the family unit physically, financially, psychologically and morally.

I am saying PEOPLE NEED TO WORK AT THEIR RELATIONSHIPS A LOT HARDER BEFORE THEY WALK OUT THE DOOR ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY HAVE CHILDREN!

Maybe we need to look at 'fault' in divorce cases again? Maybe we need to discourage young women from bearing children out of wedlock when they are hopelessly incapable of supporting them financially?

I agree wholeheartedly from experience that the 'abusive father' is most likely NOT the biological sire. We see too many women with children from multiple fathers, none of whom adequately support their spawn and Mum moving onto the next potential BabyDaddy ... Society pays many times over - to enable this 'lifestyle' and then the ensuing fallout.

Vanna, (Just for you girls)

'de facto relationships have about 3 times more chance of separation '

Considering not all de-facto relationships have even a distant goal of any kind of long term commitment, I'm sure you're right. Mine just happens to have that goal. Formalising that goal with the state and exhibiting in front of a mix of reluctant guests, free-loaders, and people we party with every other week anyway, would make no difference. Thanks for your concern though.

'When the separation occurs, you have a 90% chance of losing the children, and your children may be raised by another man, or will likely live on welfare.'

My children are quite healthy thanks, and should I one day separate with my partner, I would be happy to take on her primary carer role, but accept that the children's best interests would come first, and that is currently not my role. I have the opportunity to change that pre-emptively, as my partner has the opportunity to build her super and career, but I feel secure and confident in our relationship, so it really isn't an issue for me.

'You will also lose the majority of assets, and you will be required to pay the mother child support, while having no say in how that money is spent.'

To some degree I would find this idea of re-birth liberating (I tend to be a positive person), and I imagine I would probably rent a small flat in the inner-west, bar-hopping and getting into adventures and mischief. I would be happy to provide for my children as I am currently, and respect the motherly nurturing abilities of my partner. She does a fantastic job. I am confident she would spend the money wisely, but if not, as long as I can afford a studio and have a bit of change to spend at the pub, well, it's only money.

Snag:”What is wrong with good old fashioned Christian Family values?”

And while I'm at it - Absolutely nothing Snag!

I believe the almighty statistic will demonstrate beyond doubt that couples who share and practice Christian beliefs and values are much more likely to MARRY rather than live and reproduce in a de facto relationship and much less likely to DIVORCE. Ditto for other religions.

I am a practicing Christian, married for almost 34 years and know the importance of communication, shared values and goals. I also know that life happens around you, people and circumstances change, things are sometimes great, sometimes terrible, mostly somewhere in between but through this you and your partner must always remember to love, appreciate and understand each other. And if you believe there is an external force available through faith and prayer - that can be an aid and strength. In the congregation of which my family are part, there is little divorce, few out of wedlock children, lots of family stability and lots of happy healthy kids.

"Christian" values - because that was what our Nation and culture were built on. That's the truth, if you don't like it - too bad!

The upshot is "Christian" or not - we need a return to some old fashioned values in the whole area of relationships and family.