"To the memory of those wrongfully incarcerated by misuse of the AVO.

FROM WHENCE AND TO WHERE..."
-diver dan

A lovely example of Vogon poetry, Dan.

Almost on a par with that of Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings of Sussex.

<"Is it not more likely that such men commit suicide because they have been rejected as unsuitable partners and parents, and cannot face such truths and realities.?. Or that they have failed to get their own way in the Courts and this has been a severe and unbearable blow to their self-esteem.?." >

ChazP, by the tone of what you have written, it sounds like you are not a particularly 'nice' person.

But then what about the women who commit suicide or neglect themselves following a relationship breakdown? Do you show the same degree of contempt and lack of empathy towards them.

A relationship breakdown is a blow to anyones selfesteem, regardless of gender. Anyone who has feelings that is. Some people recover faster than others.

<It is only when allegations have undergone due legal process that statistics on child abuse begin to have any validity and utility.> ChazP

If only that were true. The innocence project in America has enabled innocent men, who were convicted of crimes they did not commit to be freed. Children who at the times in the 1980's are now adults are coming forward saying that the abuse never happened.

Part of the witch hunt in New Zealand, one zealot would measure a young girls hymen, and if it was outside a particular standard, fathers would be convicted of child abuse, even when there was no other corroborating evidence.

<Unless of course you are also referring to the gender biased `research’ towards fathers put out by the UWS?.> ChazP

This irony put a real smile on my face, I am sooo glad that you dislike gender biased research as much as myself.

So i guess as to the fact that you dislike 'gender biased research' that you have trashed almost 100% of feminist research, or is only research that supports your own biases and prejudices acceptable and then deemed valid.

Riz, I think alot depends on the type of degree and courses undertaken, plus different universities have different reputations.

One university that I know of had to have separate lectures for any males undertaking a particular subject.(it may have changed now)

During my own degree, in talking with one of my lecturers she raised the issue that there have been other males raise the issue of the negative portrayal of males in certain subjects.

As you may know within each university there are some very diverse groups of students and it is easy not to meet some of them, and others are best avoided at all costs.

A female friend who undertook social work, said she found university to be hostile, particularly towards males, at the time she did her course.

JamesH – FR supporters constantly assert that fathers who commit suicide do so because they cannot obtain contact with their children, yet offer no evidence to support such a contention. My point is that there can be a multitude of reasons why fathers commit suicide and offered a few examples. It may not be `nice’ for you to hear but unless you can provide indisputable evidence then the FR assertions are mere conjecture.
I agree with you that even Courts frequently get it wrong in decisions regarding child abuse. But at least the accused has the opportunity to challenge such evidence, even if unsuccessful. My point was that the mere reporting of child abuse is completely without evidence and the accused have been given no opportunity to defend themselves, yet such statistics are bandied around by FR supporters as proven fact.
Justices Nicholson and Chisholm have also expressed similar serious concerns regarding the shortcomings and inadequacies of the Courts in dealing with domestic violence and child abuse as has been presented in this research, are they also to be labelled as gender-biased?.
The argument of FR supporters seems to be based on a tenet that because domestic violence is committed by both genders, then nothing should be done. In effect, they are arguing that two wrongs make a right.
In an increasingly violent society, where many children are subjected to violence in the home, we should all be joining together and condemning such behaviours and ensuring that children are protected from such behaviours and that offenders are severely punished.
When the new Family Law Act is passed, I hope that a National Register of Violent Offenders is put into place as a further measure to curb such conduct. Such people of either gender have no place in our society and need to be identified and excluded in every way and for children top be protected from them.
Our debate should be about "How do we develop even more measures to reduce violence in our society", and not simply attacking those who try to put forward measures to do so.

ChazP "My point was that the mere reporting of child abuse is completely without evidence and the accused have been given no opportunity to defend themselves, yet such statistics are bandied around by FR supporters as proven fact."

You seem to be much more bothered by men using those stats than by the mothers groups using selected portions of them. This article and a lot of other material before it is promoting on the idea of protecting children from fathers (even when not stated directly the examples will almost always be about abusive males and not mention abusive females).

Elspeth and others in the mothers industry have played a one sided game for years promoting the idea of protecting women and their children. They have pushed for gender bias in family law never addressing the the sorts of issues so well put by YEBIGA. They continuously use misleading evidence to back up their push for maternal bias in family law (and a corresponding distribution of the spoils to go with it).

They have promoted a system which maximises the financial and personal pressure on parents to not be able to work together.

If you are serious about not liking the use or misuse of such statistics why don't I see any comment from you about the way's the mothers groups bandy them around?

Part of what's happening is a battle of perceptions, the proponents of a genderised family law system have created perceptions based on the use of selected statistics about family violence and child abuse.
The groups wanting a system where parents are judged on their parenting rather than gender have tried to change those perceptions.

R0bert

Robert – How can the deaths of over 70 mothers and 20 children per year as a direct consequence of domestic violence be construed as `misleading evidence’.?. Does death have a different meaning in your book?. Or that 620,000 children in Australia are denied contact with their fathers as those fathers pay no child support.
The `system’ is the Shared Parenting laws brought in due to pressures from Father’s Rights groups, who unashamedly argue that ALL fathers have an inalienable right to contact with their children, and irrespective of whether they are convicted paedophiles, child sex abusers, or violent criminals. The bias in the FLA system is therefore towards such fathers having a rebuttable presumption of such rights, yet it is impossible to rebut the presumption when Courts do not have the expertise and resources to examine the evidence of domestic violence and child abuse. The proposed amendments seek to correct this situation.

Your attitude that children are mere “spoils’ (presumably of the gender warfare) is despicable but not untypical of the views held by FR supporters towards children and the way in which children are treated in Family Law proceedings, where they are `shared’ out along with the other assets and `chattels’ of the respective parties.
This is clear adultism where children are given no respect or value, and which is far more prevalent than racism and sexism and far more insidious in its effects. Children of course have not been given the right in this country to appoint their own legal counsel and to bring legal action on their own behalf to assert their rights in these matters, as is now the case in the U.K.

I agree that parents should be judged on their parenting and that their participation in their children’s emotional, psychological, and social development and of meeting their children’s needs PRIOR to the separation should be the most important factor in determining whether they are a fit parent to have contact with and custody of their children. If such were the case, then many fathers would not be granted any contact with their children.