Just a quick question for Loxton - how does your insult to spindoc contribute to the discussion?

You , who, normally gets quite vocal when someone insults you, have a very short memory. So we can now ignore your usual bleating, since you return in kind with a really low insult.

On the article, just planning to focus your "message" on kids is poisonous, if it was something else being pushed, there would be outrage - because it's "green", does that mean it's ok does it.

What you might think is good, is not necessarily what I or others think is good - I might think for instance, that people who want to fiddle with children's minds or thinking processes should be locked up.

Being green does not mean you are right or whatever you do is good.

The greens are synonymous with wild exaggeration and BS generally for a good reason, for instance the squealing about 'disaster" on the barrier reef recently and how the reef was "doomed!" because a bulk carrier ran into it.

How is the reef doing O'BS artists? Should we tell the children that was a disaster, or that the usual suspects were BSing as they always do.

The world and mother nature is way more resilient than you want it to be, that's the pity - it's so much more fun running around telling everyone not to do this or that, isn't it?

Another clasic case of do as I say not as I do. You object to brainwashing of children with the Judao christian message of love which corrects the problem of greed and builds character and morals but wish to do the same with your extreme right left grean red socialist message and I suppose you justify it by kidding your self that you are saving the planet by enslaving the people with fear. As for me I would rather have Faith in freedom in Love than be controled by fear. I do not believe in colective fear in religion either. I believe in Jesus and the finished work of the cross and the resurection which is an afront to the world and the unrepentant sinner. Narrow is the way that leads to life and few find that way. With out a heart transformation it is only religion no matter what the message. You must be born again or you only have crowd mentality.

KenH – I don’t believe Brian was referring to humans when he alluded to the ‘degradation of the natural environment,’ so you see it’s not all about ‘me, I and myself.’ It’s all to do with the human impact on the environment. However I do believe you are correct when you claim that humans are living longer – a consequence of medical science even if many are shuffling around with plastic hips, knees, heart stents, pacemakers and stuff like that.

The down side is that the prevalence of diabetes and its co-morbidities in Australia is very high by world standards for a Western nation. In fact, the number of people with diabetes in Australia has trebled since 1981 and so it's two steps forward, three back if you've not noticed.

The bulk of homo-sapiens mistakenly believe that human dominion over the earth’s biosphere means domination and as a consequence, the native creatures in Australia are being slaughtered each year by the millions but as they say, free lunches don't come cheaply.

Then there's our esteemed leaders who set a ‘fine’ example on how to dominate the biosphere – gaol birds (Burke and O’connor), the sordid WA Inc mob, Colin Barnett and bashers like Iron Bar Tuckey convicted in 1967 for beating an Aboriginal man with an iron bar, while the man was being held down.

Consequently, I’m a greenie and proud of it but the children in my families are quite accustomed to death among the various species they have cared for or encountered by accident and the solemn burial rituals performed for the deceased have been varied and numerous.

I am also of the belief that children benefit from fantasy where my children at a young age, spent hours down the backyard, hovering over an abandoned rabbit’s warren in the sincere hope they would spot the pixie with the long red hat that I had encountered while they were at kindergarten. My son was extremely excited when he ‘saw’ the pixie emerging from its hidey hole early one morning and now delights in relating the event at numerous gatherings.

“I believe in Jesus and the finished work of the cross and the resurection which is an afront to the world and the unrepentant sinner.”

A narrative dedicated to Richie 10:

“As for the children of men, it is God’s way of testing them and of showing that they are in themselves like beasts. For the lot of man and of beast is one lot; the one dies as well as the other. Both have the same life-breath, and man has no advantage over the beast; for all is vanity.

“Both go to the same place; both were made from dust, and to the dust they both return. Who knows if the life-breath of man goes upwards and the life-breath of the beast goes earthwards?” Ecclesiastes 3:18

“You must be born again or you only have crowd mentality.” Indeed Richie 10 - I'm in total agreement

Spindoc

you said:

"no longer swallowing your lies?"

Clearly you are a racist fascist right wing loony :)

How dare anyone suggest that the Greenies and Greens are annnnything other than,
a)above reproach..
b)have no other agenda than simply to 'save the planet from impending doom, and
c)are characterized by genuineness and sincerity of a level seldom seen in world politics for the past few centuries.

shame on you spindoc-shame... I'm hereby sending you to a re-education camp for a week or so. That'll sort your misguided mind out!

http://www.carriefairfield.com/community/index.php?showtopic=27804&mode=linear

There is no room for the politically or environmentally incorrect in this place grrrr.

This is from one of the links quoted in Tony Kevins contribution...
(Four futures)

//The end of the world as we know it. This is the Jared Diamond/James Howard Kunstler/Limits to Growth scenario, where civilization's immensely complex and brittle systems break down,//

Immensly complex ? sheesh.. just try reading the Greens "A Bill for a Safe Climate"

and if you can do that .. all 327 pages of it... and not be in serious need of extended therapy...then you are superman.

Greens want to put a price on carbon of $20/ton.

Ok.. but I can't quite see how they can apply this to the many and varied industries which are all unique in the way they produce carbon emissions.

Perhaps some green here can enlighten me on this ?

(wait..I have it! the new 'green' JOBS will be as "consultants" to industry..yayyyy)

The easiest way I suppose would be to just look at how much electricity they use..and compute it from that ?

I'd also like to know what 'mechanism' the Greens propose (sorry.. 327 pages is toooo much for my small mind) in order to

a) Collect the green tax?
b) Distribute it? (and to where and how ?)

I have a simple suggestion.

Let's just find a price for carbon... ok.. we have that $20/ton
and collect that tax and then use it to subsidize residential Solar power.. VOILA problem solved :)

I did try this with one carbon trading company and they replied:

Sorry this is not a service that we provide. I previously worked at Origin Energy and would recommend their solar services. You will find details on their website.
Regards

xxxxx xxxxx
General Manager
xxxxx (companyname)