Greens Senator Lidia Thorpe has come under attack for failing to disclose she was dating an ex-bikie boss while handling confidential information about outlaw motorcycle gangs in parliament.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-20/lidia-thorpe-undisclosed-relationship-ex-rebel-president/101553386

The Prime Minister has called for a full explanation over the matter and Professor Marcia Langton has called on the Greens to dump Lidia Thorpe as their Indigenous affairs spokesperson.

Others though see Lidia Thorpe being treated as a scapegoat. They take the view other politicians have done substantially worse things in life, but they still remain in parliament in Australia.

If it is possible she should be kicked out. She is too stupid and arrogant too resign I believe.

As someone said in the last couple of days, Bandt should throw her out, then follow her through the door.

Even Marcia Langton wants her gone.

Thorpe may be guilty of poor judgement on her part, as for resignation from parliament that's a big call for someone democratically elected. The Usual Suspect, the Hansonite, ttbn supports a non elected authoritarian regime of his liking, all others are not wanted. Of course these extremists can't win through the ballot box so they seek other methods to gain power, getting ride of those they don't agree with is one way.

A chuckle for Aunty Marcia, in her latter years she has become the staid voice of Aboriginal reasonism, waiting now for a couple of blankets and a few trinkets to come the way of Aboriginal people. One should look back at her firebrand early years of activism, heaven forbid Langton was branded a communist by some, now the man of the extreme right is singing her praises, how the wheel has turned.

Just on sacking from parliament, last week we had the Liberal Senator Linda Reynolds attempting to interfere in a criminal case before the ACT court, she was also a witness in the case as well, she even had her partner sit in as another witness gave evidence, Reynolds was guilty of attempting to pervert the course of justice . As PM Scott Morrison was known to confided in a fundo religious fruitcake. Was Morrison in power, handing on info, or being unduly influenced by this man, no call from the Usual Suspect for these people to resign.

Added to the self confessed admission that she lied to get into Parliament she should go, and the rest of the perjurer Republicans with her; no matter from which party they come.

Dear Paul,

No. she should not resign.
As far as we know she did not do anything wrong.
She has been democratically elected in her electorate.
Her ex-bikie boyfriend had left the bikies when she
teamed up with him. In any case it's up to Bandt to
decide if she's going to be their choice for re-election
when the time comes. And also it will be up to her electorate
whether or not to re-elect her.

Politicians and leaders don't resign merely on heresay.
Morrison didn't, Trump didn't. Even Cardinal Pell didn't.
Thorpe will be judged by her electorate and her party -
as Tony Abbott was.

Her admission to lying isn’t hearsay, it’s fact.

Poor judgement but hardly the type of corrupt dealings caught on tape that Gladys had in NSW.

Gladys got stories about 'I have given up on finding love'
http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/labor-mp-tanya-plibersek-says-she-feels-sorry-for-gladys-berejiklian/news-story/af19b917c71277b25fe35b80298cda5e

Even though she had lied about and failed to disclose the relationship for years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZpo7XdQ80A

And who can forget George Christensen who was the subject of an actual ASIO alert but the Murdoch press fed the population a series of softball stories for him as well.

With Thorpe it seems it is hang draw and quarter her for far fewer indiscretions.

It is mostly the rightwing press going after her but there is undoubtedly a hint of racism in the response.

No, unless there is evidence of something more concrete she should not be resigning.

Yes Issy, 'Fat' Bob and "Meany' Bob are sitting in the NSW LC under false pretences, they ate an elephant and then lied to the parliament about their disgusting eating habits, how Un-Australian! Anyone who would not be truthful about their nasty eating habits should be banished to Elephant Island in Antarctica, dressed only in their jocks! Agree?

Issy, I see you are still in agreement with Shooters and Hooters policy of allowing five year olds to carry loaded guns to school for self protection and 'show and tell'. JOHNNY, why haven't you done YOUR HOMEWORK?......BANG! Homework problem solved! (<.!.>)

Herr Goebbels,
It must have really hurt when the Commissioner cancelled your firearms license, such backstabbing of former friends is seldom seen.

Steele,
Was it just poor judgement that led her to lie to get into Parliament?

Politicians do what they have to do to get into parliament
to achieve their goals. Just ask Malcolm Turnbull -
a staunch republican. Just mentioning one. And
even royalty is a bit slack in this area. Just
take a look at King Charles - as the head of the church's
his previous behaviour is not good especially the oath given to his first wife.

Being selective in whose behaviour to criticize in their oath
giving is somewhat hypocritical especially when it starts with
not keeping oaths - from
the very top of our constitutional system. Did Quentin Bryce
our former Governor-General also lie? She's also pro a
republic. And I wonder how many other politicians there are?

Picking on Senator Thorpe - is rather lame.

Dear Is Mise,

How did she lie?

Steele,
She swore an affirmation of allegiance to the late Queen, and admitted by word and deed that she did not mean a word of it; that’s lying and perjury.

Dear Is Mise,

And the Australian Constitution clearly states:

44. Disqualification
Any person who:
(i) is under any acknowledgment of allegiance, obedience, or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject
or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or a citizen of a foreign power;

The Queen is the head of a foreign power.

So all those traitors who "meant it" should hang their bloody heads in shame and march themselves or be marched right out of parliament.

Only those who have clearly stated they did not mean it should be allowed to stay.

And given the oath is not in the body of the constitution but merely a schedule to it the thing needs to be changed right away. It doesn't need to go to a referendum just a decision made by parliament.

You up for it?

Anyway enough of this rubbish. The tradition of crossing the fingers when taking the oath is not uncommon in the UK. This is Scottish National Party member Steven Bonnar doing just that during swearing in at the House of Commons fter the last election.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJhWLfEXnME

Hardly the big deal our ultra right types have tried to make it with Thorpe.

Give it away mate, you are flogging a dead horse and coming across as racist and misogynistic.

Keep Lidia on so she Sinks the racist Referendum I say!

Lidia's shenanigans are an asset to we thinking Australians who wish the racist Voice to Parliament REFERENDUM to fail.

Although Lidia is white, she exhibits typical black activist behaviors that turn most people off, eg:

- insisting there be an Aboriginal Treaty and Leftist "Truth Telling" Commission even BEFORE there's a Referendum.

- arguing with hard working and genuine Aboriginal leaders who suggest other approaches

- leading demos through Melbourne in which the Australian FLAG IS BURNT.

- giving Black Power salutes in Federal Parliament. http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/aug/01/australian-greens-senator-lidia-thorpe-calls-queen-coloniser-while-being-sworn-into-parliament

- refusing to pledge allegiance in the federal Senate to the Head of State

+++++++++++++++++++++

And worse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidia_Thorpe#Senate

"In a speech to Parliament in May 2021, Thorpe commented negatively on new bail laws being introduced into the Northern Territory and assumed that the Attorney-General of the Northern Territory was a white male, when the Attorney-General, Selena Uibo, was an Indigenous woman.[23]

Thorpe criticised the laws as racist, while Uibo countered that Thorpe simply said outrageous things to get on television and was not qualified to speak on the Northern Territory's issues. [24]

In December 2021, Thorpe was accused of telling Liberal Senator Hollie Hughes "at least I keep my legs shut" during a parliamentary session. The Senate had been debating the National Disability Insurance Scheme, and Hughes alleged that Thorpe made the comment in reference to her autistic son. Colleagues of Hughes said that she was left in tears. Thorpe apologised unreservedly on the same day and denied any reference to Hughes's son.[25]"

Go Lidia - Sink the Referendum!

Steele, Grow up and get some moral backbone.

Dear Is Mise,

I assume by moral backbone you want me to join you up on some high horse and bleat about the world coming to an end because a single woman decided not to take the oath of allegiance to heart?

That is just childish and a little pathetic.

I'm not going to get upset because an indigenous person has taken issue with the colonising power. That is their right. Why on earth is it sheep stations for you?

"Herr Goebbels, It must have really hurt when the Commissioner cancelled your firearms license" No such thing ever happened, and you know it. Issy, grow up and get some moral backbone.

Herr Goebbels,
I have the proof or what purports to be the truth, and what I’ve been told has the ring of truth.
I haven’t been told the reasons, beyond “ not a fit and proper person” as to much detail could be a giveaway.
I find it amusing that the master liar accuses someone else of lying.

Hi Issy,

Please get off the turps and start talking sense. Why would I want a gun? I assume you have had a close association with guns, from the time you shot your first koala at the age of four to this day of shooting everything that moves, and somethings that don't.

p/s Please explain that nonsense above, are you in the DT's?

"Fake thefts (of guns) are also common, with a "cleanskin" — a person with no criminal record — asked to purchase a weapon before letting themselves get robbed of it."

Issy, are you a "cleanskin", have you ever acted as a "cleanskin", do you know any "cleanskins"? Just asking. Most likely upstanding members of the SSAA, would you agree.

Herr Goebbels,
It’s really getting to you, I suggest some psychiatric help.

Thorpe has "referred herself" to the Senate privileges committee. Hopefully they will encourage her to resign, as she can't be sacked.

Now now Pauly n Issy.

Can we get back to Lidia's dubious "value" to Aboriginal Australia?!

Like Xena* she's our Slayer of the Racist Referendum.

* http://youtu.be/KxhDbNlUHlk?t=25s

Integrity in politics should be common practice amongst all politicians.

http://www.zalisteggall.com.au/there_needs_to_be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIjUdV35ZkI

All Lidia needed to do was to disclose her relationship and this whole situation could have been avoided, but I'm not sure about dating someone once associated with a bikie gang. I not sure how well the general public and others would take that.

I think Lidia Thorpe will continue to face intense scrutiny by the media and others and she faces a censure motion in parliament from Pauline Hanson. This will distract from Lidia's work role and focus. It will impact on getting a voice to parliament and advancement in areas like bridging the gap.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/lidia-thorpe-to-face-censure-motion-amid-calls-to-resign-from-senate-over-bikie-relationship/8kanukb8y

I see no value in referring to other people here either. The Greens must hold their own members to account, and this will hopefully flow onto others of parliament as poor standards will not be tolerated. No double standards should apply.

"In recent years we’ve watched as the (Liberal) federal government get more brazen, cocky and corrupt. We’ve had Sport Rorts, Carporks, Watergate and dodgy deals that saw taxpayer money handed to gas donors of the Liberal, National and Labor parties to destroy our environment."

http://greens.org.au/campaigns/federal-icac-now

Yes, I do think other politicians have a lot to answer for, and a number of those with bad records have remarkably stayed silent on this issue. I hope the other parties that want Lidia out will clean up their own game and improve standards across the board.

LIDIA's "APOLOGY" :)

Well Lidia, loving the media spotlight, made her "apology" in the Senate today, virtually proclaiming First Nations' Joan of Arc status.

Check out her tone http://youtu.be/o4JwRfNgIvo

Critics may typify her as "the cats got the cream" or even an "A---Hole".

But get used to it those contemplating voting "Yes" to Albanese's Referendum.

If passed Lidia will no longer need to apologise. Her misdoings will all be Secret First Nation's Parliamentary Business - as protected by the Constitution.

ie. held above mere laws that govern the rest of us.

Keep it up Lidia, sink the Referendum!

"Integrity in politics should be common practice amongst all politicians."

Hi Nathan, that may well be the ideal, but politicians only reflect the integrity levels of the general community. Integrity is often exceeded by opportunity, and some don't see integrity as a stumbling block to opportunity. Does the doctor ripping off 'Medicare' believe he is compromising his integrity, no, he is simply taking advantage of opportunity. If a doctor is willing to take such an advantage, why wouldn't a politician?

Paul,

<<that may well be the ideal, but politicians only reflect the integrity levels of the general community.>>

I don't know what "integrity levels" are, how they are relevant here or how one would define them, so the best thing to do is to ensure that members of parliament who make decisions on our behalf take integrity seriously - as they should.

Having standards in place for members of parliament, so they know (and the community) what the boundaries are, and politicians act accordingly is a step in the right direction.

Independent Helen Haines MP is now calling for a code of conduct for MP's and I agree.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2022/10/21/helen-haines-lidia-thorpe-bikie-relationship-parliament/

Making excuses for not maintaining high standards in politics (integrity included) is poor pathway to go down. I do believe others who take advantage of a system for their own gain are compromising integrity, including their own, regardless of how they see themselves.

"FAKE ABORIGINES"

On a related matter SBS' from its Insight "Indigenous Identity" episode aired in mid Octber 2022 reports http://www.sbs.com.au/news/insight/article/community-leaders-warn-many-who-claim-to-be-indigenous-could-be-fakes/bc6c8bneg

"Community Leaders warn many who claim to be Indigenous could be ‘fakes’"

"First Nations communities across Australia are struggling to cope with an influx of people who are not known or recognised by the people they claim to belong to, a number of senior First Nations community leaders have warned. They say fake claims can cause serious consequences.

...The 2021 Census reported a 25 per cent increase in the Indigenous population in the five years since the previous census.

In a phenomenon University of Sydney post-graduate student and Wiradjuri woman Suzanne Ingram described as “race-shifting”,

people, who for the bulk of their lives have identified as non-Indigenous Australians, are now “box-ticking” ‘Indigenous’ as their identity in the Census, at workplaces, within cultural institutions and in educational settings, to name just a few.

According to Ms Ingram, this race-shift begins with self-identification as an Indigenous person and leads to distortions of culture and people.

...However, she explained the problem lies not only with the individual, but also rests upon the non-Indigenous “enablers” who accept the potential misrepresentation, without having knowledge or qualifications to know what is truthful and what is cultural identity fraud.

University of Melbourne Professor, Bruce Pascoe, the award-winning author of Dark Emu, agreed this is a serious issue, telling Insight special host Karla Grant that he has witnessed the First Nations community change dramatically since he began identifying as a Yuin, Bunurong and Tasmanian man decades ago.

“I think we are in dangerous times, with that explosion of people identifying.”

"Mr Pascoe now holds the opinion that some who identified later in life “need to pull their heads in a bit.”

“What I have seen is recent identifiers coming with their income, and their education, usually acquired because they're not dark [skinned], skewing what is happening in local Aboriginal politics.”

MORE BELOW

FROM ABOVE

"Mr Pascoe believes bullying occurs between those who learned of their heritage and identified later in life, against those who were born and raised steeped in the heritage.

“I've seen these people assume positions of power, and literally push around both old men and women who they disagree with,” said Mr Pascoe.

Yorta Yorta man Ian Hamm, a board member of the Healing Foundation, an advocacy organisation that supports members of the Stolen Generations, holds similar concerns regarding the population increase.

“What is the life expectancy of Aboriginal people per se, off the 2022 set of data with this huge growth rate? Will that life expectancy rate take a sudden skew one way or the other?”

“A referendum on the Voice to Parliament, and for the states now doing Treaties, what will this population explosion mean?”

...Dr Stephen Hagan, a Kullilli man from Queensland told Insight he holds no concerns about people “who are on a road of discovery. I encourage people.”

However, he asserts there are serious negative consequences for Indigenous people who ask the newly-identified about their heritage. Recalling occasions when Dr Hagan has asked colleagues and associates the standard Indigenous protocol questions "Who's your mob? Where are you from?", to understand a person’s Indigenous identity within the kinship structure, he said a common response nowadays is “that’s lateral violence”.

Dr Hagan added the burden of proof “is not [upon] those people claiming to be Aboriginal. The onus is on the people who are challenging them. We don’t have the capacity, the financial resources to take them to Court.”

“They are protected. They can sign a statutory declaration [to confirm they self-identify] and they’re in. They can take on a $200,000 job anywhere they want.”

“People are being remunerated very handsomely to hold a lot of senior positions and in our business” and organisations.

“People are growing rich on our misery.

“This increase in fake Aborigines coming into the organisations. They are basically white people, they’re controlling the narrative of black affairs and they’re controlling the policy that will come out of these organisations.”

MORE http://www.sbs.com.au/news/insight/article/community-leaders-warn-many-who-claim-to-be-indigenous-could-be-fakes/bc6c8bneg

Bruce Pascoe would know, in fact he’d have first hand inside knowledge.

We all live different lives.
We have a private life.
We have a working life.
We have a public life.
We can live them separately most of the time.

Lidia Thorpe was chosen by a large group of people to represent them in parliament.
That is her working life.
She can still have a separate private life.
When the two give the public cause to believe there is a conflict of interest, she must do something to change that.
As I understand it, she did so of her own accord.

Unless she loses the confidence of those who voted for her, she should stay put.
This dramatic idea that the slightest misdemeanour means banishment to the back of beyond is quite absurd.
Let's get real about this.
Some persons seem to think that if they can wield a hatchet well, they are being useful and worthwhile in the community.
I think they just want to feel powerful.

Lidia Thorpe is simply a nasty piece of work.

Unless she is a complete moron she should have seen that getting paid to sit on a classified committee whose purpose is to discuss amongst other things actions to be taken against organised crime while dating a senior member of a criminal gang was a massive conflict of interest.

This green fwit poser could have avoided all of this sh1tstorm by choosing any other committee and should be the first corrupt official to face any new federal ICAC.

So far she has exposed Adam Bandit as a flaccid doormat who is happy for yet another green criminal to walk all over him.

Ipso Facto,
What do you think should be the punishment for politicians who swear a false oath or affirmation to get into Parliament?

Was there a Liberal plant in the jury in the case of the alleged senior Liberal rapists Bruce Lehrmann? We did see Liberal Senator Linda Reynolds inappropriately trying to get the good oil on Brittany Higgins evidence, no doubt so she could massage her own story.

Village idiot,

It is clear that;

- there was no physical evidence of rape or even evidence that anything sexual even happened.
- There are no witnesses to the event.
- The only evidence is Brittany Higgins's testimony,
- Brittany Higgins's story changes continually and she clearly admits to telling porkies.
- BH looks to make lots of money if BL is convicted.

Secondly, Linda Reynolds was a PROSECUTION witness Not a defence witness and in normal circumstances would have access to BH's testimony. As she didn't get access she did nothing wrong.

Given the complete lack of evidence, I am surprised that the verdict wasn't reached in short order. There was probably a fwit greenie that believed that BH must be believed that blocked a unanimous acquittal.

Dear Paul,

It is rather convenient isn't it that a juror was
caught out bringing their own research in, when
all of them had been warned not to do so several
times ahead of this trial by the judge.

Something fishy does smell. And not the trial is to
be delayed until next year? How convenient for the
accused. Perhaps they're hoping it will all just go
away and Ms Higgins will withdraw from the case?

All a bit suss and too convenient.

That’s very strange, Foxy agrees with Paul.
I suppose that there must be a first time for everything.

There's a first time for
everything when I'm involved.

"THORPE SAID SHE WAS THERE TO 'INFILTRATE' THE AUSTRALIAN PARLIAMENT"

Lidia Thorpe typifies a radical end of highly fragmented Aboriginal attitudes to Australia's Heritage and to the Albanese Government's Racist Referendum policy.

She can be considered the Wild Child of Uluru-Voice to Parliament factionalism:

eg. "Thorpe led a walk-out of the Uluru convention" (more below).

+++++++++++++++++

For example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidia_Thorpe#Senate indicates:

On Australia's Heritage:

"In December 2021, following a fire that damaged the Old Parliament House in Canberra, Thorpe was criticised for tweeting "Seems like the colonial system is burning down.

[And she added] Happy New Year everyone #AlwayswasAlwayswillBeAboriginalLand”. The tweet was criticised by members of both the Coalition and Australian Labor Party. Thorpe would delete the tweet an hour later.[26]"

"In a June 2022 interview, Thorpe said she was there to 'infiltrate' the Australian parliament and that the Australian flag had "no permission to be here".

Fellow Aboriginal Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price denounced Thorpe's comments and called for her dismissal from parliament.[28]"

+++++++++++++++++++++

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidia_Thorpe#Activism

Uluru Statement from the Heart

"Thorpe has been critical of the Uluru Statement from the Heart, believing there should be a treaty BEFORE an Indigenous voice to government.

Thorpe led a walk-out of the Uluru convention, believing that it was "hijacked by Aboriginal corporations and establishment appointments and did not reflect the aspirations of ordinary Indigenous people".[39]"

+++++++++++++++++

Comment

Thorpe's talent at giving Aboriginal causes a bad name
is an asset to concerned Australians who rightly wish
the Albanese Government's Racist Referendum policy
to be voted down at that Referendum.

Most of us are already aware of the ugly side of
politics as presented by Lidia Thorpe. But why
dwell on it?

There's always grumble-bums around
on anything that's being attempted -
especially anything to do with our Indigenous
people. It's unfortunate that Thorpe does not see the
harm she's causing for the people she supposedly
supports.

But perhaps I am being too pessimistic.
Perhaps most Australians have already made up their
minds - and won't take any notice of the grumble-bums
like her.

On a more positive note - I watched Noel Pearson's
first Boyer Lecture last night (Thursday 27th October,
9.30 pm - ABC -TV). He explored the past, the present,
and the future. Perhaps if enough people watch the
series - it may influence them positively. One can
only hope.

http://about.abc.net.au/press-releases/noel-pearsons-first-boyer-lecture-who-we-were-and-who-we-can-be/

Hi Foxy,

Yes, all very highly sus, non allowable evidence, found conveniently as the jury room is being cleaned up. Our very own Rumpole of the Bailey has returned with another one of his gems of a legal opinion. This is the same tosser who said; "An arrest in the Beat Up Bolt case is imminent. law enforcement have got their man!", that's about 5 years ago and no arrest has taken place, Bolt beat himself up. Then there was the 'Cry Baby' Porter case where true to form our Rumpole declared; "Cry Baby Porter is in for $10 million+ in compensation, a grovelling apology from the ABC and 100 ABC staff sacked to pay for it all." He added Porter has nothing to worry about, even declaring he would be our next PM. Where is Cry 'Baby Porter' now, A-holed to WA!

Hi Foxy

Well my Aunty used to say "never trust an old fogey who wears a hat indoors" and Noel's wearing one.

We the Lidia Support Droogs (LSDs) reckon he's past it, a bit quaint, like Ita before him.

Lidia will one day be the unrivalled Leader of all Aborigines.

But Noel is more impressive, in Church Preacher Mode, than Morrison
and that's saying something.

Checkout the Sermon of the Noel here http://iview.abc.net.au/video/RN2201H001S00

Cheers Mavs

Lidia is for Lidia all others come way behind second place.

Pauliar, (aka village idiot)

Once again you are a LIAR and a FRAUD. I never said any of those things and you know it.

It is just like you claiming that Bandit raped Brittany Higgins.

Lets quote shonkyminister, and then determine who is the liar.

<<the damages (to Porter) will likely reach several $m with costs > $10m. The ABC will need to make a grovelling apology and fire another 100 employees to pay for it.>>
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 11 May 2021 11:30:10 AM

Oh dear shonky, your words not mine.

Pauliar, (aka village idiot)

You just proved yourself a liar.

Firstly, what you claimed I said and the partial snippet you just posted are different

Secondly, You lied when you said I claimed the thug that assaulted bolt would be arrested imminently, I never did.

You are a disgusting little troll and a liar.

Hi Maverick,

I don't think that Lidia Thorpe will ever become
the leader of the Indigenous people in Australia.
I doubt if she'll by chosen by white people to stay
in parliament and speak on behalf of black people.

Thanks for the link of Noel Pearson. I realize that
he's allowed to give his views because they are
views accepted by white Australia - who are mostly
interested in hearing their version of " Indigenous
Social Justice."

These "intellectual debates" are allowed to be had
within the parameters set by non-Indigenous Australians.
I guess it would be more enlightening to let someone
like Lidia Thorpe have a say - than someone like
Noel Pearson. But of course Pearson is more acceptable
to our white society. And at least he just may be listened
to by more people than if Thorpe spoke hat or no hat -
or possum cape.

cont'd ...

Hi Maverick,

2019 MABO Oration
Delivered by Luke Pearson
3 June 2019

"Our right to self-determination is inalienable.
We have a right to control our own destinies.
We have a right to maintain our connections to
land, and to water. For those people who have lost
those or are losing those, we have a right to rebuild
them. We have a right to rebuild our languages, to
maintain the ones that luckily are still thriving. We
have a right to our families, to our children. These
aren't things that you should need to prove you're
capable of. These are things that should be given."

Shonky,

You have been taken down by your own words! Nothing could be clearer!

No Lidia Thorpe should not resign.
The Greens would replace her with someone sensible whereas with her
there we can see how stupid the Greens can be.

Some people claim they have inalienable rights.
They haven't.
They certainly have inalienable needs.
Food, clothing, shelter and so forth.
They cannot live without them.
In the natural world, these are acquired by the use of force.

In our 'civilised' society, we are able to live in peace.
This is because we allow others to have exclusive use of things they need.
We use the word 'right' to express these 'entitlements'.
This 'right' will result from reasoned discussion.
These 'entitlements' are agreed to and enforced.
That is why we have governing bodies.
That is why we have laws, and enforcement.
That is why we have armed forces to protect the borders of the land we call home.
Without them we could be over-run by another race, which would undoubtedly impose its own standards.
And we could lose all the so called 'rights' we take for granted.
Because we wouldn't be able to enforce them.

There is a vocal group in Australia which talks about inalienable rights.
These 'rights' simply don't exist. They are illusory.
Long ago this group lost its ability to determine its own path in life.
It now has no power to make rules or enforce those rules.
The only way any small group can bring about change is to convince a majority of the justness of its cause.

However, any group which tries to convince us that the sand in one place is mysteriously different from the sand in another place, is bound to fail?
Sand is sand.
It is silicon dioxide mixed with various other substances.
None of these substances is magic.
None of these substances has mystical powers.
It is all just sand.
So the argument falters and fails.

"we can see how stupid the Greens can be" Bazz you would never vote Green in a fit, nor would most on this Forum. I may not entirely agree with Linda's method of presentation, but I like those who did vote her into the Senate support what she says. Most of the conservative mob on here simply want parliament stacked with "yes men" who only reflect their ideals. Her position in the Senate will be determined by those who voted for her not some bunch of reactionary old farts.

Village idiot,

Just give up, no one believes you anymore.

Shonky,

I gave up on you a couple of years back, about the time you joined the forum. With your sycophantic support of Dangerous Doctor Donald and Bug Ridden Boris. Your declared pilgrimage to Christchurch (if you actually left your bed sit in Moonee Ponds). I think its disgusting how you have tried to usurp the memory of that once decent poster Shadow Minister who sadly has departed this cyber world for the big computer in the sky, me thinks he lost his memory, and then his hard drive gave up the ghost, a tragic loss to us all.

Village idiot,

You can't stop lying, can you? I never supported Trump.

You are a typical greenie troll who has to lie to feel better. I would take a guess that you spent time in jail.

Maybe that’s why his firearms licence was cancelled, my information doesn’t go beyond “ Not a fit and proper person”.

Is Mise,

If as you claim about me, you have made erroneous enquires concerning any gun licence application by me to a government agency, and if private information was disclosed to you without my consent, you and other(s) would be in breach of Privacy Laws, a criminal offence. I should lodge a complaint about YOU.

An organisation or agency can not use or disclose your personal information for another reason (a secondary purpose) unless an exception applies. Exceptions include:

You’ve consented to an organisation or agency using or disclosing your personal information for a secondary purpose.
An organisation or agency uses or discloses your personal information because they think it’s reasonably necessary for enforcement-related activities carried out by, or on behalf of, an enforcement body.

You may be in a lot of trouble Issy, illegally seeking personal information. CRIMINAL, but being a crim, you'll fit in well down at Gunnie HQ.

Goebbels,
I didn’t make any inquiries, and inquiries of that nature, as you’d well know, would not be answered.
My information came from a former staffer to a State ALP MP.
Seems to be accurate judging by the current reaction.

Although people are polite about Noel Pearson's Sermon delivery style Noel answers written questions with great eloquence and honesty.

A "Noosa Today" article by Phil Jarratt is an interview with Noel "Noel Pearson: Up from the Mission"

8 December 2020 http://noosatoday.com.au/news/08-12-2020/noel-pearsonup-rom-the-mission/

It begins "Lawyer, academic, historian, land rights activist, advocate for social reform, provocateur … Noel Pearson, now 55"

Two of Noel's answers are:

"People of my generation were critical of mission history, whereas my father and grandfather who had grown up in it could see the truth of it, which is that if the missionaries had not come in at that point in our history, we would have been wiped out, literally

...In 1886, 13 years after the white people arrived in Cooktown, the missionaries found us and they found a wreckage. The tribes of the district were pretty much wasted, and the missionaries set up a refuge from the frontier."

About JOH BJELKE-PETERSON

"[Joh's] history with us preceded his political career. He actually helped relocate the mission back to Hope Vale in 1949. Our people were like the children of Israel – we’d been in exile in a strange land and we needed to go back to our homeland, to the promised land.

That was the way the elders saw it, in a religious context. But the problem was to get the land back, and this was where Joh played a pivotal role.

[Joh] flew over it, surveyed it, then organised the money to purchase the land and helped set up the process of re-establishing the mission on it. [Joh] was chairman of the Hope Valley Mission Board for 10 years until the late 1950s, when he got into Country Party politics. Our people had fond memories of Joh as a churchman who had supported us."

MUCH MORE at http://noosatoday.com.au/news/08-12-2020/noel-pearsonup-rom-the-mission/

Watch out, Maverick, the truth can hurt particularly those who tell it.

Yeah I know Issy.

Its like the Emperor's New Clothes, where little boy points out reality behind politically correct appearance.

Albanese's proposed Referendum will give the geen light to designating a favoured Race Under The Constitution.

When is Racism OK?

Cheers Mavs

Hi Maverick,

And which is the favoured race under the Constitution?

Here's a link that explains:

http://sbs.com.au/news/article/uluru-statement-from-the-hearts-voice-aims-to-change-the-course-of-australias-parliament-heres-how/xhkpdrget

Those favoured under the Constitution are Australians; racially, Homo Sapiens.

Exactly.

Our Indigenous were/are considered not to be
part of that group. Sadly.

Hi Foxy

Definition of Race being "a categorization of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into groups generally viewed as distinct within a given society." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization)

I recommend you comprehend http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/uluru-statement-from-the-hearts-voice-aims-to-change-the-course-of-australias-parliament-heres-how/xhkpdrget The favoured race it quotes is "Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders"

Mavs

Hi Maverick,

Prof. Marcia Langton has pointed out that for too long
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people had to
tolerate a "type of structural racism that treats us as a race."

"All arguments against the Voice are based on the concept
that we're a race of people and that no race should have more
recognition than another. That is complete furphy."

"We're not a race - we're over 600 cultural groups - this was
our land until 1788."

"We3're not a race. We're the people of this land. We ask
for decency, a rightful place in the nation."

We the Lidia Liberation Front

as a "cultural group".

Thank you Foxy

Hi Maverick,

Speak for yourself.

Senator Thorpe I'm sure is quite capable of speaking
for herself.

Don't you oppress me.

Hi Maverick,

Oppress you?

Not me!

"All the gang of those who rule us
Hope our quarrels never stop
Helping them to split and fool us
So they can remain on top."
(Bertolt Brecht).

Thanks Foxy

For your thoughts and poetry.

Lidia is at the radical end of many fragmented Aboriginal groupings who are not at all happy with the Referendum process and timings.

Many are aware of the risk of greater social disharmony, particularly if the Referendum falls over.

Albo, with his popularity "honeymoon" coming to an end, is a humanitarian gambler indeed, and he's feeling increasing pressures.

Cheers Mavs

Thank you Mavs.

It is complicated.

The more I learn. The more I realise how little I know.

VOICE VOTE WILL LOSE: PART ONE

The Canberra Times, November 5 2022 opinion piece by Professor Matt Qvortrup (of Coventry University, currently visiting Professor at ANU College of Law) http://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7964537/history-shows-a-herculean-effort-needed-for-a-yes-vote/

“Matt Qvortrup - Australia's past referendum results show Voice to Parliament vote will lose"

"Australia will soon hold its first referendum in over 20 years. Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has confirmed that a vote will be held on a Voice to Parliament."

According to the official website http://fromtheheart.com.au/what-is-a-voice-to-parliament/ "A Voice to Parliament" is a body enshrined in the Constitution that would enable Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to provide advice to the Parliament on policies and projects that impact their lives."

Whatever the merits of the proposal, lessons from other referendums suggest that the historical vote will be lost.

According to a statistical model, the Albanese government will lose by 8 per cent.

How is that? Opinion polls currently give those supporting 'the voice' a lead of 65-35 per cent.

So, why the dire prediction? Why am I so confident?

For starters, this author predicted Brexit in an article published a full five months before the British voted to leave the European Union in 2016.

The same model can be applied to the forthcoming vote and the result is not encouraging for Mr Albanese.

No, it has got nothing to do with the question. Referendums are not won because of the issue on the ballot but for other reasons.

Based on an analysis of all 600-plus votes held since World War II, all constitutional referendums start from a base of 56 percent yes-support.
But in countries where there is compulsory voting (like in Australia, Chile, and Luxembourg) there is a drop-off of 13 per cent in support.

Add to this, that governments lose one percent per year when they are in office, and the forthcoming vote will be lost by a clearer margin than the Republic referendum in 1999.

Of course, there are other reasons for Labor to be pessimistic.

As readers are well-aware, referendums in Australia are about as likely to pass as reheated soufflé is to rise."

VOICE VOTE WILL LOSE: PART TWO

Canberra Times piece continues http://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7964537/history-shows-a-herculean-effort-needed-for-a-yes-vote/

A popular majority has been secured in only 13 of the 44 referendums held since 1901, and fewer (eight) propositions received the necessary double majority (majority of voters as well as a majority of the states). This is a poor record however one looks at it.

Compared with other developed countries, the record is lamentable. Ireland has held nearly as many referendums as Australia, but in that country only nine out of 39 (23 percent) have failed. And in Switzerland, out of the 73 votes held since 1980, a mere 12 (16 percent) have resulted in a no-vote. The average yes-percentage has been 86.

So, are Australians simply naysayers and small-c conservatives?
Not really, it is just that in other countries, there is no compulsory voting and referendums are held early in the term.

Is there a way out? Perhaps, the statistical model also shows that bi-partisan support adds 8 per cent to the result.

But even this does not guarantee success. Should Peter Dutton decide to throw his weight behind 'the voice', the 'yes' side will only just get over the 50 per cent mark.

And this is with a margin of error of 2 per cent.

This is a case of too close for comfort.

Moreover, history does not bode well for the proposal. In 1950, Liberal prime minister Robert Menzies initially enjoyed over 80 percent support for his proposal to ban the Communist Party of Australia in 1950. Yet he lost.

Robert Menzies, said - on the same occasion - "the truth of the matter is that to get an affirmative vote from the Australian people on a referendum proposal is one of the labours of Hercules".

That is a high bar indeed. Slaying the nine-headed Lernaean Hydra, and steading the mares of Diomenes, was not easy for the Greek hero. But he did it. Whether the Australian government feel that they have the same powers as a son of Zeus is a question only they can answer."

We have a chance to change Australia for the better.
And just like Peter Dutton who regrets not being
present for the apology issued by then Prime Minister
Kevin Rudd, we will regret it if we don't take this
opportunity of granting a Voice to Parliament.

Labor has made the Voice to Parliament its highest
priority. There are many naysayers who say a referendum
won't succeed. But as Gay Alcorn points out in The Age -
" It should be remembered that the referendum in 1967
that enabled the Commonwealth to enact laws for Indigenous
Australians and to remove the prohibition agains5t
counting them in the population in the Commonwealth or
a State - passed with a backing of more than 90% of
Australians, the highest level of support for any
referendum since Federation."

Of course the support of most side of politics is needed
for the Voice to pass. Linda Burney has committed to working
with the Coalition on the process of providing the specifics for
a Voice to Parliament. She has her work cut out for her.
Finding a model that has the backing of not only her political
opponents but the broad sweep of Indigenous society is a
daunting task.

Gay Alcorn tells us that - "the Voice, treaty, and grassroots
assistance in communities can progress simultaneously. If
enacted effectively, an Indigenous Voice to Parliament is a
big idea that could re-shape Australia symbolically and
practically for the betterment of First Nations people."

Surely it is an idea that we Australians can/should all fully
endorse.

Two Questions must be answered;
What are the details of how this voice will operate ?
What is and aborigine ?

Until those questions are answered then NO is the only possible vote.

Dear Bazz,

Interesting that those on the right are running this line while at the same time supporting religious schools getting billions in government funding and the ability to discriminate on who they hire.

Should all those attending Catholic schools have to be baptised Catholics?

How do we deal with the private school sector having such sway with the government of the day?

Interesting that someone can’t see the difference between ideology and a social group, or ‘race’ if they prefer to use that ridiculous concept.

Dear Is Mise,

You really couldn't have illustrated my point any better than you have.

Thank you.

Lol.

Hi Foxy

Where you claim "Labor has made the Voice to Parliament its highest priority."

Really?!

Noting higher priorities, dominating the Federal Budget/Economic Policy, are:

- Education
- Social Welfare
- Arresting Inflation
- NBN
- Cost of Living

and see these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2022_Australian_federal_budget#Expenses

All for Aborigines and Non-Aborigines.

Regards Mavs

Steele,
You are coming across as a bigger fool than we thought .
You are comparing chalk and cheese but your taste buds are not functioning.

Hi Maverick,

Labor is determined to keep its promises which include
many areas. I was merely trying to point out in reply
to your previous points that among all of its promises
the one to the Indigenous people is what we're discussing
here and while treaty and truth telling are on Labor's
agenda - it has made the Voice to Parliaments its highest
priority. Anthon Albanese has committed to holding a
referendum in his first term. That of course is no small task.

I apologise for not explaining it better to you.

Oh, thats OK Foxy. Understood now.

There's fair disagreement within and between fragmented Aboriginal movements.

This is as to whether a Black-White Treaty and/or Truth Telling Commission should Come Before, Follow or actually be Instead of a Voice Referendum.

Lidia prefers the political niche of Precede or Instead of.

This is partly due to her pragmatic concern that the Voice Referendum will be voted down and Aborigines will be left with nothing.

Mavs

Thanks for understanding.

The good thing is that Linda Burney, as I understand it,
has committed to working with the Coalition on the process
of providing the specifics for a Voice to Parliament.
She certainly has her work cut out for her. As I said
previously - finding a model that has the backing of not only
her political opponents but the broad sweep of Indigenous
society is a daunting task.

LIBERALS REACTING AGAINST ALBO'S EVERYONE - WITHOUT HARD INFORMATION - VOTE YES ON THE VOICE REFERENDUM AND JUST TRUST US!

Now that OLO rules now robo-time prevent everyone New Posting on Foxy's Voice to Parliament thread https://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=9888&page=0

I'm using this Lidia thread to note:

The Guardian article "Liberals expected to give MPs freedom to campaign as they wish on Indigenous voice" of Nov 24, 2022 at http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/nov/24/liberals-expected-to-give-mps-freedom-to-campaign-as-they-wish-on-indigenous-voice

"Peter Dutton says Coalition is still in discussions but sources say free vote is likely, in defiance of John Howard’s advice"

"The Liberal party is expected to allow members the freedom to campaign however they wish on the Indigenous voice to parliament referendum, defying advice from former prime minister John Howard.

There is a broad range of views in the opposition on Labor’s plan for constitutional recognition of Indigenous Australians, but even Liberal supporters say the government must give more information

about the voice and conduct a parliamentary inquiry before they could pledge their support.

“A joint select committee on the voice is the best way to ensure its success,” Liberal senator Andrew Bragg said.

“There are huge risks that need to be managed here. It would be the best way to counter misinformation.”

Senator Kerrynne Liddle, a key opinion inside the Coalition whom several members have said they will take guidance from on the voice, said she backed constitutional recognition but wanted the government’s plans “interrogated”.

The opposition leader, Peter Dutton, has so far resisted questions on whether Liberal members would be allowed to campaign as they wished on the referendum, expected by the end of 2023."

MUCH MORE at http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/nov/24/liberals-expected-to-give-mps-freedom-to-campaign-as-they-wish-on-indigenous-voic

Hi Maves,

Get onto Liberal MP Stuart Robert he should be able to do something for you, well if he was in government that is. As he promised when he was running for office; "Citzens, people, voters, constituents, you little folk out there! When you elect me I'll be working night and day, yes working my fingers to the bone, for my mates in big business that is.....and you mob as well don't forget that..... ha, ha."

That's why we desperately need a federal ICAC, and that's why the Coalition opposed it for 10 years. CORRUPTION AT THE TOP!

And some here are concerned what Lidia Thorpe says. She's a non issue. when it comes to this stuff even Hanson is honest in my opinion, can't say that for some Coalition members.

Hi Paul

I have no love for the ex-Coalition - and voted against them accordingly.

Yep, too many ex-Morrison Ministry carpetbaggers still haunt.

Mavs