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The Forum > General Discussion > What are the gold threads in our society?

What are the gold threads in our society?

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I have just read an article on the Sydney Morning Herald on Paul Keating's comments of the current Australian society. It is not a long article but has raised my interest in finding out what values in our society we should be preserving, and what we need to disregard. I think it has particular relevance in what matters in a multi-faceted society, and how we should understand that ultimately we are all the same. I think our politicians should not be short-sighted and create an inciteful and political environment which interferes with our normal good human nature.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/pm-taps-into-black-thread-keating/2007/09/05/1188783274438.html

Regards
Posted by Goku, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 11:55:13 PM
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Dear Goku

the problem of diversity in society and the noble goal of 'what should we preserve' in terms of commonality, is a bit of a dream.

If you doubt me, goto a large public car park and see the behavior of people :) everyone views the world in terms of 'their' world/personal view. I come across people driving the wrong way up one way parking lanes..

Culturally, people are the same. There are 'good/generous/kind' people in every group, but 'by and large' people perceive the world and its inhabitants in terms of their own..... and act accordingly.

Does it surprise you that most of the 10 commandments are DON'T this or that.
In fact there are only 2 positive commands.
-"Keep the Sabbath"
-"Honor your parents"

Every other is a "don't"

The natural human inclination, believe it or not, is to go against what we know is right for all, and DO what is best for US.

Jesus was quite accurate when he said "He who would be first among you must become servant of all"... it goes against the grain, yet is the only true solution and 'gold thread' we should value.

Just imagine if instead of our youth media shouting out "Me me..and more meeeee" it communicated "for them... for him...for her... I will so my best to lift them up"

So, dare I say, the most precious fine gold 'value' we should be promoting is a Christian one.. "first shall be last, last shall be first"

Jesus told a beautiful parable about a banquet, when he noticed how people chose their seats.

"When you go to a banquet, don't choose the seat of greatest honour, but take the lowest place. Then, the host can come and say "Come friend, go up higher". Otherwise, the host may come and instruct you to take a lower place, and with shame and humiliation you leave the honoured seat"

Oh that our politicians took this view also. Let the people say "Yes.. you have done well.. you have served greatly, go up higher and lead us"
Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 6 September 2007 8:39:22 AM
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Ouch, I partially agree with BD. But only partially. Yes, humans tend to look after their own needs first, but its something that it built into us thanks to evolution, rather than an inherent evil. Large communities (cities) also tend to have the impact of turning us inwards, as those that surround us are strangers. Its much harder to be self-centred in a small town (particularly if you value your reputation). There are actually a number of management/self improvement books out there now that advocate "giving to the universe", a karma-type philosophy. What you give out you will get back tenfold.And that's pretty true. I mean, if you are known to be a good and generous person you can still have a hard life, but people will be lining up at your door to help you out. Kindness begets kindness, so if you want to change the world into a better place, simply start with whats around you.

Likewise revenge begets revenge. Got to give the bible a tick on this one. Turn the other cheek is a good philosophy for the world. If you take revenge for an act against you or yours, you will only inspire a greater attack on yourself. All the fundi Christians that want Bin Laden's head for the WTC disaster would do well to go back and re-read their texts, and think about WHY that's a good philosophy to live by. Doesnt mean that you shouldnt take steps to protect yourself, but that implies defence, not attack.
Posted by Country Gal, Thursday, 6 September 2007 9:37:31 AM
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Keating was absolutely correct, of course. The Howard government has cynically moved to win back that ignorant and hateful sector of the electorate that they lost to Hansonism in the 1990s.

I regard the 'gold threads' in Australian society as comprising such aspects as the notion of a 'fair go', tolerance, secularism, egalitarianism, a healthy disrespect for hypocrisy and wowserism, our 'larrikin' ethos, and so on.

Of course there are 'black threads' like the latent xenophobia, , misogyny, racism and homophobia that are apparent in that minority of the population whom Howard needs to appeal to in order to retain power, but fortunately those who subscribe to these negative ideologies are relatively few in number.

Boazy: "I come across people driving the wrong way up one way parking lanes.."

It must be the MUSLIMS AND ASIANS! Aussies would never do that.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Thursday, 6 September 2007 9:55:01 AM
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I'm in big trouble now .

Boazy has spotted me in the car park !
Posted by kartiya jim, Thursday, 6 September 2007 10:01:22 AM
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How often do we do things and only realise later we've been selfish? Often I think.

How often do we get halfway through something (like driving the wrong way in a one-way lane) and realise too late that we've made a mistake? Even worse, a mistake we can't correct because it's too late?

That's why we have convenient words like "regret" in our vocabulary.

It's as easy to assume somebody is being deliberately selfish as it is to make any other mistake. If you see someone driving in the wrong direction, why assume they've done it on purpose?

Our tendency to suspect the worst in everyone but ourselves is not a nice thing. Perhaps it's this tendency, and not actual selfishness, that has risen in the past decade.
Posted by chainsmoker, Thursday, 6 September 2007 1:28:15 PM
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I love theway we will stand up and fight for what we think is right.

Lots of healthy debate and lots of tolerance of opposing viewpoints, too.
Posted by palimpsest, Thursday, 6 September 2007 7:16:10 PM
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Chainsmoker, great name, I agree with your thoughts. There are easy presumptions a lot of people make when they see things being done differently. The person driving up the wrong lane could simply be unfamiliar with the directions or is new to the area. And I agree that there is really no need to be so negative all the time.

Country Gal, you analysis is also quite right in that we can safely presume people to be self-interested, particularly when people do not know each other, and should not be taken as being selfish. There is a tendency in large cities for people to be very absorbed in materialism, even for professed Christians. The Bible advocates some really good ideals, but despite being taught there have just been too many instances of breaches in a world of conflicts and confusion, internal and external.

It looks that that there is some sort of consensus in this forum that there is at least some ideal that the society can work towards, at least we know what the "don't"s are, and despite prevailing self interest, we do not over step the line into hating each other. Boaz what you are advocating sounds even more idealistic than trying to find common ground, is this little difficult to achieve with your "neighbour" who inadvertantly drives up the wrong side of the lane and being thought of as selfish? Regards
Posted by Goku, Thursday, 6 September 2007 10:09:57 PM
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chainsmoker,it appears alot of people ARE feeling negative about themselves today, mabye its not 'more' than van Gogh's day as its now less hidden and we dont lock people away out of view.
Still im concerned for the youth of today and the lengths they can go to to express their self doubt.
Self harm has become a semi regular thing amongst the younger generation.
Slashing in particular, which has shocked me. Still i feel its examples we set to our youth that are failing. No cohesion to the groups anymore-even if the old 'group' wasnt healthy , it was at least a bit of backbone. Famous peoples do have responsibilities, towards the public, considering that the public keep famous people wealthy.
Angelina Jolie was a slasher-most young people know this, its easy for her to move on with her fame and money, yet her copy-cat victims are left behind.
And so on and so on as role models go. Peer group pressure etc. Older people seem to think that the young will just sprout old heads on their shoulders or something-and that they can escape their turn of playing 'elder'.
Any one see my point.
So sturdy role models for our young would be in my view like gold threads.
Posted by mariah, Thursday, 6 September 2007 11:10:55 PM
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No CJ...not at all...its Kartiya :) and the Aussies so far who I've encountered doing that.. I must confess.. once I stopped, (in front of the offender) got out, and asked "What are you thinking"? I did this for very sound public safety reasons .. people don't reverse out of their spaces looking the WRONG way for cars coming (as far as I can see)
The bloke I did that to turned out to have an 'Invalid' sticker on his car :) but that doesn't give him any special privilege to drive the wrong way down a one way street.

CG... and Solomon said: "A good name is more to be desired than great wealth, and to be respected is better than silver and gold." Prov 22:1

Some Biblical Proverbs
17:1 Better a dry crust with peace and quiet
than a house full of feasting, with strife.

10 A rebuke impresses a man of discernment
more than a hundred lashes a fool.

12 Better to meet a bear robbed of her cubs
than a fool in his folly.

22 A cheerful heart is good medicine,
but a crushed spirit dries up the bones

We can never escape the fact of conflicting values. It's part of life. The values CJ mentioned are not recognized by some very strong minded people in our community. I would not recognize certain behavior as ok, and our Islamic community would feel the same about not only those issues, but others as well. I feel all religions should be able to be criticized, including their founders, Muslims do not believe this. ="Conflict". How we resolve that kind of values conflict is the critical question. In one case it might be felt that violent demonstrations are the solution to intimidate the community. Others might take more peaceful approaches.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 7 September 2007 9:14:48 AM
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