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The Forum > General Discussion > Pornography

Pornography

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Actors in porno pictures and videos are the people of low status who, it appears, do not know any other decent way of earning their bread. Is it rational to allow our children and young adults to have access to these porno materials including the sexual act through the internet via search websites?
Posted by Ezhil, Saturday, 1 June 2019 1:15:33 PM
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The alternative is censorship, take your pick.

No one has to watch it.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 1 June 2019 9:24:52 PM
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unfortunately Ezhil we are living in the days where secularist have promoted a society similar to Sodom and Gomorah. It won't end well and we will continue to be dumb enough to spend millions on youth suicide while asking why.
Posted by runner, Saturday, 1 June 2019 9:33:04 PM
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runner,

No one would suicide from watching pornography, they might die of boredom, but nothing else.

Talk about a short play of repetitious predictable gymnastics.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 1 June 2019 9:47:02 PM
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An interesting factoid, Professional pornography like other professional media is in the doldrum because of amateurs. Why pay for porn when the internet is flooded with people posting their own activities for their 15 seconds of fame.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Sunday, 2 June 2019 5:59:09 AM
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The porn 'stars' are of higher "status" than dole bludgers; they cost the taxpayer nothing. But, no one has addressed the question: "Is it rational to allow our children and young adults to have access to these porno materials including the sexual act through the internet via search websites?"

Just who is it who is "allowing" children and young adults to access porn? Any examples? Names and addresses? And, adults, young or old, are perfectly entitled to access whatever they wish to access. Pornography is just one of the whipping boys the media regularly drags out when there is not much around to scare people with.

There is no evidence that pornography harms anyone. Nobody Is forced to watch it. It is probably a comfort for some people. There is enough vicious, life threatening stuff out there to worry us without listening to fuddy-duddies wanting to bring back the censorship of the Victorian era - when there was still a thriving porn industry anyway. Get over it. You have probably watch it yourself.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 2 June 2019 10:04:47 AM
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Porn goes way back,
here are a few pics of the Casa di Vettii in Pompei.

http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/Attraction_Review-g187786-d669198-Reviews-House_of_the_Vettii-Pompeii_Province_of_Naples_Campania.html#photos;aggregationId=&albumid=101&filter=7

There is no indication that Vettii was unique, other houses in the town have similar frescoes.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 2 June 2019 11:31:37 AM
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Is this thread based on the view of a follower of God
If so surely the hard work should begin in houses of worship?
If it is about children being cruelly miss used it has my support
Not yet ready however to forget institutionalised child sexual assault at the hands of Gods followers
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 2 June 2019 1:06:25 PM
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Pornography does not take away tax payer's money is not correct and even if we accept that it may not do that it causes more harm by corrupting people's mind and in that sense it is much more dangerous and deleterious specially to young people.We should not rate anything on the basis of money. Impact on society and its well being should be the primary consideration.
Posted by Ezhil, Sunday, 2 June 2019 1:16:52 PM
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This post is not from a believer of god.Celibacy is against nature and so people who claim that they follow celibacy will fail and that is what happens in places of worship. But this need not be compared with man's misdemeanor in exploiting the social conditions of some men and women to make money using rather misusing them in pornography.
Posted by Ezhil, Sunday, 2 June 2019 1:28:48 PM
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Belly,

"Not yet ready however to forget institutionalised child sexual assault at the hands of Gods followers"

Have you forgotten the sexual abuse by atheists?

"TRUMBULL, Conn. (AP) — The American Atheists Organization of Bridgeport have acknowledged in court papers that it documented 32 accusations of sexual abuse of children by atheists associated with the organization for over 40 years...
The Atheist organization is contesting a request from Mr. Powel’s lawyers to turn over all documents regarding sexual abuse by atheists at the organization. In its filing in Superior Court in Waterbury, the leader of the American Atheists said it had compiled 126 boxes of documents and files detailing 32 accusations of abuse by eight atheists at the American Atheists organization."

http://www.nobeliefs.com/comments13.htm

Open the other eye!!
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 2 June 2019 2:32:13 PM
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Then there is this,

"The boundaries of art and sex have been blurred for some time - be it increasingly explicit content or the familiar practice of male artists starting a relationship with an attractive female muse.

But, as these Australian cave paintings show, it's certainly not a modern thing for an artist to use his skills to portray sex and pornography.

The series of drawings found on the roof of caves in the inaccessible wilderness in Arnhem Land, in the country's north, clearly shows a couple having sex."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161118/Aboriginal-erotic-rock-art-proves--28-000-years-ago--men-ONE-thing-minds.html
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 2 June 2019 2:41:02 PM
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Hope you will agree with me that modern man must be much more civilised than the cave men of the distant past.
Posted by Ezhil, Sunday, 2 June 2019 4:18:57 PM
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IS MISE highlight, in fact name, these Atheists you say abuse children
ARE YOU defending pedophils qwith in the Churches Faiths?
Seems like you are!
Tell us in detail what you know about them
Any unwanted sexual act against any one, is wrong always and
issy you in not demanding an end to Churches supporting the cover ups is simple, contributing to your faiths death
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 2 June 2019 6:14:24 PM
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Belly,

If you were not only stupid and bigoted you would see that I gave a reference.

From your reply, it seems that I have touched a nerve.

Sorry about that (like hell!!).
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 2 June 2019 6:40:57 PM
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An article on what pornography does to us. Though it admits this is a newer topic of study, so there's less information on it, what it does point out is the negitive effects porn has on the people who view it.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hero/201603/is-porn-good-us-or-bad-us

Read the article, do your own reasurch. But don't walk away thinking it's harmless. Most countries have a legal age to be able to drink legally. They do this because there's a danger and harm in drinking causing societies what to protect younger people from. If the same conclusions can at least be acknowledged for seeing porn, then yes taking measures to prevent this harm are nessassary. If that includes censorship, or some like of age ID that can be scanned before a site lets you in, then perhaps it's worth it.

Do the research on your own. See if there is enough harm in porn to protect people from it.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Monday, 3 June 2019 3:58:49 AM
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Ise Mise old chap know please I give no weight to anything you say
My opinion of you is constructed after reading your quite bigoted but also mad words every day
It will forever remain my view every pedophil is sub humnan
Too I fear [can be wrong] this thread is a pretence, it poses a question but is it in fact ignoring or supporting something else
Do not dare use freedoms to mask the truth some porn is in truth a sexual crime against the people involved
While not a Christian I will forever believe that faith is worth listening to in matters like this
Do not let yourself see a loss of freedom but not the pain some suffer in making your porn
Posted by Belly, Monday, 3 June 2019 7:31:18 AM
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Belly,

"Ise Mise old chap know please I give no weight to anything you say"

Even when I give a reference?

126 boxes of evidence against atheistic paedophiles from but one organization and you don't like it, getting a bit close to home is it?

Here's another for you to ponder, Richard Dawkins defending mild paedophilia.
http://www.salon.com/2013/09/10/richard_dawkins_defends_mild_pedophilia_says_it_does_not_cause_lasting_harm/

Dawkins, in case you don't know, was a prominent atheist.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 3 June 2019 9:14:39 AM
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Pornography gives a very old man the pleasure of seeing other people doing what he can no longer do. For people who are capable but due to inhibitions or lack of suitable companions cannot engage in the activity it gives vicarious pleasure. One can enjoy a murder mystery or other narrative concerning crime without engaging in felonious activity. One can enjoy pornography in the same way. The only thing that disturbs me about pornography is that so many of the participants are tattooed.
Posted by david f, Monday, 3 June 2019 11:31:05 AM
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Ise mise quite frankly I do not believe you have such information
Are you hinting some inside knowledge about my side of politics
Again, sorry but your words nothing else forbid me considering anything you say as worth considering
You ARE still a supporter of Pell after all this is the week his appeal is heard
Posted by Belly, Monday, 3 June 2019 11:54:17 AM
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"Ise mise quite frankly I do not believe you have such information
Are you hinting some inside knowledge about my side of politics
Again, sorry but your words nothing else forbid me considering anything you say as worth considering
You ARE still a supporter of Pell after all this is the week his appeal is heard"

Would some kind person please translate the above into understandable English.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 3 June 2019 12:26:39 PM
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Pornography is produced by misuse of camera and other technology.Cinema is another field where camera is terribly misused to cheat the gullible. Both have the same hidden nay overt agenda of making money. People interested in making money at any cost will not follow moral values.
Pornography will lead to problems in sexuality in the young. It may also cause problems for the married couples as they have seen the acts already, resulting in over expectation from the partners. Distraction from studies may be another serious problem in the youngsters. Any way pornography is not an essential item for human life.It is the invention of some misguided , dehumanised individuals for their living.
Posted by Ezhil, Monday, 3 June 2019 1:04:06 PM
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is mise as you never see anything other than your own bitter and nasty thoughts why bother
Sad little man living a sad little life
Posted by Belly, Monday, 3 June 2019 3:46:19 PM
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Belly,

"is mise as you never see anything other than your own bitter and nasty thoughts why bother
Sad little man living a sad little life"

Now that's English that anyone can understand, you must have finally got Grammarly; good for you.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 3 June 2019 6:29:47 PM
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I am sure those who are so blasé about pornography would be thrilled for their daughters to be prostituted for all to feast on. Champions of women's rights!
Posted by runner, Monday, 3 June 2019 7:17:32 PM
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A woman walked into the bedroom and caught her
husband watching an adult movie on DVD.

"I told you not to watch that in here," she said
in disgust.

Her husband pointed to his wife's book resting
on the bedside table.

"You're reading "Fifty Shades of Grey?"
he asked pointedly.

"What's the difference between your book and my
film?"

"It's literature!"snapped the wife.

"Let's see." The husband picked up the book and
read bits of the novel for a few minutes.

"The dialogue is cheesy. The plot contrived and
the adult encounters are more unrealistic than
what I was watching."

The wife turned to watch her husband's DVD.
After a few minutes she told him :

"The music is cheesy, you can hear the director
giving instructions to the actress. The DVD keeps
changing angles so quickly and the close-ups
are of things I don't want to see close up and the
lighting is poor."

Her husband bit his lip perplexed. Then he turned the
DVD back on and stared in disbelief for a moment.

"Wow! I didn't even know this DVD had music!"
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 3 June 2019 8:01:49 PM
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of course children and young adults need no access to this sites, I think the parent all have the power to regulate every device in their house, better watch something entertaining.
Posted by watch game of thrones, Monday, 3 June 2019 11:40:30 PM
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The stories I've come across about porn and adult videos are a discredit to the industry. I've never come across a story of an actor who was in porn and loved it. Instead I've heard two kinds of situations

One that is danger to the actors that are caught up in something bigger where they have no choice. A drug addiction where they make videos or sell their bodies for sex in order to keep their supply of drugs there, or to pay for the drugs that are being given to them. Or part of human trafficking orginizations that are more common in some countries but still seem present in any country.

The other is from stories of "successful" porn actresses. That they do it out of hate and getting paid well. Hate for the men that watch the porn, and justify it by taking their money.

I've never heard of a porn star who says "I chose this life and so should you." That in itself should be a red flag. Porn is an industry built on the misery of it's actors.

Knowing this doesn't make it any easier to resist watching it. The problem of porn is both for those in the industry, and those who watch it. If there's a way to successfully restrict porn from our kids, I think that should be explored. Hope to help the next generation to be better off then the ones that grew up with porn as a continuous issue in their lives, their marriages, or in expectations and loss of social skills as a whole.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 3:26:32 AM
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A person might be a sleazy politician like Barnaby Joyce. A person might be in the armament industry making weapons to kill people. A person might be in the ad industry persuading people to buy what they don't need. A person might be a lobbyist for a polluting industry working to prevent parliament from enacting legislation that would protect people from the effects of the pollution but add costs to the industry. A person might be in the clergy filling people's heads with nonsense so they are like poor, mistaken Israel Folau who imagines some of his fellow humans are going to an imaginary place of torment.

In my opinion all the above are worse than a porn performer whose acts bring delight to the watchers. Unlike those who are affected by those antisocial individuals mentioned in the above paragraph watchers of porn are in general less harmful to society.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 7:50:08 AM
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From my first post my mind has been centered on some thing I had just read
A news story about a filthy thing sharing his sexual attacks on his own kids
For me I watched porn, we mostly do, but even deep throat later saw its star tell of being used/harmed
So porn may well be natural, but if someone is hurt in the making?
It will always be true, some defend any type of behavior if they are involved in it
Let's face it country villages around here are known as Paton Place and one? confusion, it is said on fathers day it is known by that name
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 8:04:46 AM
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Following on from the last couple of posts,by David and Belly.

I wonder why people bother to have children at all these days. Years ago ,before contraception, a couple fell in love married and children were the natural result. These days there are options available and couples do not have to have children.

So it makes me wonder. after seeing the daily news, if any more than half the kids turn out OK. There are rapes and murders,robberies and car theft, home invasions and king hit assults. Then it appears that most of the young that attend dances these days are on drugs of one type or another.

So if only half the kids are OK with very few the parents can be proud of, what is the point in having them at all. What a disappointment most would be to their parents after all the hard work of raising them and the sleepless nights, not to mention the costs of feeding and clothing them and education. It all seems a gigantic waste.

If I have horses instead of kids, I can at least sell those that turn out no good.

Why not just not have kids and spend the money on ski holidays?

Porn may be a contributer but not the only reason for our social deteriation.
Posted by HenryL, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 9:11:51 AM
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Dear Belly,

I agree with you. If one is hurt in the making then the activity, whatever it is, may not be good. Sometimes we cannot avoid hurt. A medical procedure may hurt, but it may be necessary for a person's health.

You wrote: “A news story about a filthy thing sharing his sexual attacks on his own kids.” Those acts are criminal acts and should be prosecuted as criminal acts whether or not a recording was made of it.

The wowsers of our society would censor porn. H L Mencken defined Puritanism as "The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.” I believe that is part of the source of the opposition to porn.

Another part of the opposition is the desire to control what people see or think about. If one looks at the Catholic Index one finds that they have put some of the greatest works of the human mind on it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_authors_and_works_on_the_Index_Librorum_Prohibitorum

The above lists some of those great works. Those works can contribute to a wide –ranging education.

Don’t kid yourself. The wowsers would stifle freedom. It sounds innocent. They just want to protect the kiddies. They speak about the desperation of the porn performers. They want to decide what other people should see or think about.

If we want freedom of expression we have to allow what others find offensive. We have to allow porn. We have to allow Israel Folau’s offensive remarks about those his religion condemns. We have to allow religions to be questioned. We have to allow atheism to be questioned.
We can pass legislation to ensure that workers in all industries including porn are not exploited. However, the banning or restriction of porn is more harmful than any damage that porn can do.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 9:48:02 AM
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We are very blessed with our children.

They have grown up to be decent human beings.

We were involved in their lives from birth.
Sports played a vital part. Especially basketball.
We kept them busy after school and on week-ends
in all sorts of activities. And today we help
with the grand kids.

During their teenage years - there was a time when
they went through the period of hiding the usual
magazines from me. I ended up buying Playboy for
them - because I thought it was in better taste than
the other stuff. They watched some porn - but they
grew out of it.

I didn't make a big deal of things and always ensured
that they could talk about anything with us - no matter
what, we were there for them.

And we still are.

We've been lucky.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 9:57:40 AM
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Why don't we let people run their own lives and concentrate on our own and those of people close to us. The person who started this thread needs Big Brother to tell him what to do and what to think. Po-faced do gooders give me the pip. Don't approve of something? Don't do it.

David f,

I note that Barnaby the Buck Rabbit and the missus are expecting again.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 10:05:20 AM
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David F,
Why would you find Israel Folou's remarks offensive?

It seems that you want to deny him his right to an opinion which is contrary to what you are saying.

For me I was not offended. I simply was of the view that he has a right to his opinion and left it at that. If a muslim said the same I would think the same and no offense taken.

What is you opinion about the number of kids that turn out no good or are on drugs these days and why. That nice looking girl that was killed in a Melbourne park is an example.
Posted by HenryL, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 10:10:03 AM
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Dear HenryL,

I find the belief that one is consigned to a place of eternal torment whatever one has done as offensive. You asked why I find it offensive.

I consider the punishment out of proportion to the offense. I find it a silly, stupid religion that maintains that position.

I do not deny him his right to have such an opinion. I do not maintain he should be shut up or punished. Objecting to an opinion is not the same as censoring an opinion. I believe he is in error. However, it is not my right nor anybody's right to censor anybody because one believes they are wrong.

Thomas Jefferson wrote to John Sullivan in 1805. "Truth is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict, unless, by human interposition, disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate; errors ceasing to be dangerous when it is permitted freely to contradict them."
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 10:32:02 AM
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Dear HenryL,

Israel Folau is entitled to his religious beliefs.
What he was not entitled to do however was to break
the contract that he had signed not to express those
beliefs in public. He had agreed to the contractual
terms of his employment contract and signed the
contract. He broke the contract several times and was
warned several times but he continued to break it.
Therefore his employer sacked him.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 10:43:10 AM
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cont'd ...

It would be like an atheist teacher in a religious
school telling students that God did not exist
and that religion was mere superstition. Now
that teacher is entitled to their beliefs - but if
they were to express those beliefs in the religious
school - they would not have a job for long.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 10:47:42 AM
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Sexual misdemeanor cannot be compared with any other dishonest activity.They may be economic offences.But porno corrupts people's mind.Sex should be personal. Only uncivilised people can post sex in public domain unmindful of the public opinion.
Selling one's physique for a price is the most basal activity on earth.They act in such pornos knowing pretty well that these may be seen by their own relatives including their own children, brothers and sisters.Only shameless people can do this and they do it for the sake of money.
Lazy people will invent some nonsense like porno and justify it saying it gives pleasure to many. Why don't we pause for a while to understand that it affects the sexuality of the masses.
Posted by Ezhil, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 11:08:10 AM
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Ezil Sorry can not agree sex is at the heart of who we are and it is said we think about it every six minutes
In fact Church's efforts to make a natural act evil is laughable
Highlighted by the huge number of people preaching that, who are sex offenders
Porno, if it is not using its stars is not evil
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 12:10:17 PM
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The word stars cannot be applied to porn people.Similarly cinema people also should not be called so.People who make huge money by some kind of deceitful activities do not deserve that name. It is like calling broom stick a tuft of silk.
Let us reserve such words as stars for people who really make some contribution to societal welfare. Certainly not to porn people.

Sex is a natural act but it cannot be enacted in public. That is civilisation. Let us not use technologies to make the natural act a barbaric one.
Posted by Ezhil, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 12:53:28 PM
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Foxy,
As you said Israel Folau is entitled to his views and I accept that but if he signed a contract to not air those views in public then it is correct that he be penalised by canceling his contract. He was silly to sign such a contract in the first place if airing his views mean't so much to him.

It seems a common fault these days for people not wanting to be responsible for their actions.
Posted by HenryL, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 1:09:45 PM
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What I find amazing today is not only the number of young women who are happy to pose for naked photos to be distributed on the net, but the number happy to perform in sex videos, also to be displayed on the net. These are simply young amateurs, not porn performers.

I can only assume that exposure to a wide ranger of porn material has made this an acceptable, normal activity for todays young people. Only time will tell if this has any effect, good or bad, on our society.
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 1:32:27 PM
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Dear HenryL,

Thank You for being so civil.

Now back to the topic.

According to the Psychology Today article given below
watching porn can have serious side affects for some
people. The article is worth a read:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/hero/201603/is-porn-good-us-or-bad-us
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 1:41:44 PM
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Foxy,

Same effect with watching car racing.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 3:04:28 PM
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Or watching football, cricket, boxing,
horse-racing, et al?

Don't think so.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 3:07:30 PM
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Watching porn is deleterious in some of its effects. It also is good in some of its effects. It is a two-edged sword. It releases sexual tension and increases sexual tension. We can say the same about the mixed effects of ANZAC Day. The ceremonies remember our fallen and remind us of our past. They also increase militarism and the readiness to engage in new conflict. Advertising makes us aware of products we might find useful. It is also harmful in creating dissatisfaction with what we have. Some of the same objections to porn also apply to advertising. It makes us dissatisfied with our current state by showing us an imaginary venue where our needs are dissatisfied. Alcohol is certainly a mixed blessing. It contributes to traffic fatalities and makes social encounters more enjoyable. The US had what they called a 'noble experiment' when it tried to ban alcohol. I'm sure most of us know the results.

Porn, alcohol, ANZAC Day and advertising all exploit human emotions and desires. There are many views of how we deal with those human qualities. An authoritarian society has the view that everything that is not permitted is forbidden. A permissive society has the view that everything that is not forbidden is permitted. Very few of us are completely authoritarian or completely permissive although I lean to the latter. I think it would be good to discuss the good and bad effects of porn, alcohol, ANZAC Day and advertising in schools. They are all part of our society which we have to deal with. I think we are having a good discussion about porn in this thread.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 3:58:05 PM
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Foxy,

After watching car racing, certain people are overcome with a desire to drive beyond their abilities, football, tennis et al do not have the same effect.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 7:03:39 PM
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Is Mise,

I did not mention tennis.
However, football, boxing, horse racing,
and some other sports can have serious
repercussions for some spectators.
Just like watching porn. It is subjective.
Car racing - not so much.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 7:34:56 PM
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Most of this is our opinions. Just speculation based on whether we see porn as something to stand against, or something that is harmless.

I would like to see some reasurch to back up the views that support the opinions that porn is ok. Because a quick search on porn and it's influence brings up articles that support that port is harmful to the person watching it. Including sources like phychology today.

Add to that the harm the industry does to it's models and actors/actresses, and you have a two fold reason to stand against porn. For both the viewers of porn, and those involved in the making of porn.

At least try to engage the observations and resurch put against porn instead of ignore them and offer your own speculative opinion on the matter. For instance instead of just saying porn has good in it too, point to some reasurch that supports it. Otherwise the speculation that it is good because it relieves stress and is enjoyable is the same to say smoking cigarettes is good and healthy because it's enjoyable and reduces stress.

None of the arguments here to support the current sitution of porn lead me to believe that kids and teens shouldn't be restricted from it's influence like buying cigarettes and beer are restricted under a certain age.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 3:54:23 AM
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Someone sent me this, & I did not know what to do with it. Then I thought of this thread, so here it is. I have no idea of it's authenticity.

How to Replace Mouse Balls
I don't know how they wrote this with a straight face. This was a real memo sent out by a computer company (IBM) to its employees in all seriousness. It went to all field engineers regarding a computer peripheral problem. The author of this memo was quite genuine. The engineers rolled on the floor! Especially note the last couple of sentences.

Re: Replacement of Mouse Balls.
If a mouse fails to operate or should it perform erratically, it may need a ball replacement. Mouse balls are now available as FRU (Field Replacement Units). Because of the delicate nature of this procedure, replacement of mouse balls should only be attempted by properly trained personnel. Before proceeding, determine the type of mouse balls by examining the underside of the mouse. Domestic balls will be larger and harder than foreign balls. Ball removal procedures differ depending upon the manufacturer of the mouse. Foreign balls can be replaced using the pop off method. Domestic balls are replaced by using the twist off method.. Mouse balls are not usually static sensitive. However, excessive handling can result in sudden discharge. Upon completion of ball replacement, the mouse may be used immediately. It is recommended that each person have a pair of spare balls for maintaining optimum customer satisfaction. Any customer missing his balls should contact the local personnel in charge of removing and replacing these necessary items. Please keep in mind that a customer without properly working balls is an unhappy customer.


Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 8:54:07 AM
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Dear NNS,

Porn is not harmless. Alcohol is not harmless. Free speech is not harmless. Patriotism is not harmless. Abortion is not harmless.

One reaction is to ban all of the above because they are not harmless. The US had its experience in the massive corruption and crime resulting from banning alcohol. Free speech in Weimar Germany resulted in Hitler. Suppression of patriotism in India by the British occupiers resulted in the imprisonment of Gandhi. Suppression of abortion resulted in abortion by knitting needle and the backyard butcher and suicide by desperate women. Banning porn is also banning freedom to read and look at what one wants to read and look at. The reaction of the authoritarian to freedom is to ban it because it can be harmful. Yes, freedom itself is harmful. People may jeer at your Gods and your religion and call them fantasies. I believe that belief in God, the devil, hell and the nonsense that go those fantasies are harmful. They corrode the mind. You have a right to your fantasies, and you have a right to call for banning what you don't approve of. You could also try to live with it and realise that people doing things you don't like is a price of freedom.
Posted by david f, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 9:04:28 AM
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Dear Hasbeen,

Q. Why do mice have very small balls?

A. Not many of them know how to dance.
Posted by david f, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 9:19:38 AM
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David,

"You have a right to your fantasies, and you have a right to call for banning what you don't approve of. You could also try to live with it and realise that people doing things you don't like is a price of freedom."

Spot on, freedom comes first.
To me porn is absolutely boring, I did a paper on it in Sociology III (it was a good excuse to watch!!), the historical research was interesting but the videos soon proved to be repetitively mind-numbing. This was before the days of wide computer use but most video stores had a 'blue' movies under the counter service.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 9:21:30 AM
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Foxy,

You did not mention tennis but you used the expression "et al", so one could assume that tennis comes into inclusion.

Obviously, you have never driven away from a car race venue.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 9:29:11 AM
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Dear Is Mise,

Porn has become boring to me. At first the novelty of sitting at my desk and having it freely available was attractive,but it palled on me. However, I think there should be no barriers on people looking at what they want to look at.

I am reading "Joseph Anton". It is Salman Rushdie's account of his life after a fatwa was put on him encouraging believers to kill him for writing "Satanic Verses". I went to a mosque in the West End of Brisbane and was invited to watch their services and sit in as the participants gathered in small groups for discussion after the services. In the group I was in a couple of the men had read "Satanic Verses'. They didn't much like it, but they were for free expression. They approved neither of the fatwa or for banning any written work. In Rushdie's book he also tells of Muslims who are for free expression. The desire for freedom might be a universal.
Posted by david f, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 9:50:29 AM
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David,

I read Satanic Verses whilst in hospital recovering from Deep Vein Thrombosis, brought on by not exercising on a flight from India.
The only high point in the book was that I had only very recently walked down the road to Juhu beach that his characters used to reach the sea.

The fatwa was completely unjustified.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 11:10:41 AM
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Is MIse,

Opinions are subjective after all.

We look at "Satanic Verses" in one way - some
people view it in another way. Personally I enjoyed
"Midnight's Children - much more.

As for car-racing? I have attended the "Grand Prix,"
here in Melbourne. Not my thing. Still to each his own.
The same goes for porn. I thoroughly enjoyed the
series of films - based on "Fifty Shades of Grey."
I've enjoyed "Lady C's Lover," and many more.

"Deep Throat," boring.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 11:51:02 AM
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Well me too, it became boring after a rainy day stuck in a lunch shed watching men, some of who had never had sex and may still have not slobber over it
Yet right back to Roman times and far beyond it existed
We seem to be having trouble separating the type that victimises its stars and the willing participants stuff
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 12:01:56 PM
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Then there are the 'snuff' movies.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 3:04:54 PM
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There's a difference between banning and restricting access. If you can't come to terms of restricting access like what is done for beer not being sold or given to minors, then perhaps banning would be the next step. I'm sure there's a way to restrict porn without banning. But if there isn't then yes get rid of it. Not just for the kids and teens, but also for the people who are forced or volunteer to be in that life of industry.

Restricting it might do good to ensure what is out there isn't going through people who are forced or minipulated to be in porn pictures or videos. That it is voluntary. As well as resolve the issue of kids full of hormones getting bitten by the porn industry and can't shake their port adfiction the rest of their life. (Same reason to restrict minors from being able to smoke).
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Thursday, 6 June 2019 3:45:34 AM
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Dear NNS,

Porn is already restricted, and I think that it should be restricted. A parent can get various additions to a device which will restrict access to certain channels. Porn shops cannot display porn scenes in their shop windows in most areas. Zoning would keep a porn shop away from a school. Most movie houses do not show porn. The viewers of porn mostly do it alone. The porn industry has the same regulations as to wages and hours that other industries have. What additional restrictions do you want that we don't now have?
Posted by david f, Thursday, 6 June 2019 8:00:13 AM
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' I believe that belief in God, the devil, hell and the nonsense that go those fantasies are harmful. They corrode the mind.'

you prove clearly that non belief in God, the devil and hell is harmful. Your mind is corrupted without need for further corrosion.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 6 June 2019 12:54:02 PM
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Dear runner,

Nice to hear from you.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 6 June 2019 2:13:05 PM
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It would be even nicer to leave out the
judgements.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 6 June 2019 2:23:52 PM
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'It would be even nicer to leave out the
judgements.'

certainly mean you would not state an opinion Foxy. I doubt whether you would remain silent.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 6 June 2019 2:30:53 PM
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runner,

I try to back my opinions with facts.

Your comments are purely based on your own
beliefs and judgements. There's a big difference.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 6 June 2019 3:59:01 PM
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Dear runner,

Perhaps you have forgotten these words:

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Are we not brothers? Are you entitled to judge me? Am I entitled to judge you?
Posted by david f, Thursday, 6 June 2019 5:58:48 PM
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funny david f how you quote someone you claim not to believe in. He also declared that all are sinners (corrupt). That obviously does not exclude you or me. At least read the context and then you will see what Jesus was talking about in judging others.

you ask

'Are we not brothers? Are you entitled to judge me? Am I entitled to judge you?'

obviously I am not your ultimate Judge. Every knee will bow before the Judge who is Jesus Christ. The fact that your opinions flow from godless ideology does not prevent me from being able to expose those godless opinions that come from adopting the denial of Your Creator. Hence you endorse baby killing, immorality etc. You are no different to anyone else embracing godless ideology. This forum is exactly for that. A sharing of opinions. Your own mouth (or pen) judges you.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 6 June 2019 6:17:45 PM
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Dear runner,

There is both wisdom and nonsense in the Bible. There is nonsense like the virgin birth and wisdom like the part about judging. Like all other books the Bible was written by humans. One does not have to believe in the man-god, Jesus, or any of the mumbojumbo in the Bible to accept the wisdom found in it. The Bible was written by people trying to find their way in the uncertain world they lived in. You and I are still trying to find our way in the uncertain world we live in. Jesus said nothing about either abortion or homosexuality. Yet people who claim to follow him have views they claim are based on their religion. I place the wishes of the pregnant woman above the life of the fetus within her. I think she has a right to decide she does not want to continue a pregnancy. You would deny her that right. That is the difference between us. I think it is a great advance in human rights that a woman can get a legal abortion. If you can get enough people who agree with you to make abortion illegal again, you won’t stop women trying to get an abortion. You will only bring back the backyard butcher, the attempted abortion by knitting needle and suicides by desperate pregnant women.

You sound like a very angry man. If I had lived your life I might be angry, too. However, the saying about turning the other cheek is a good one. I see no need to return your anger. We can both try to do the best we can do. You and I are both human beings. I am sorry to have been angry at you in past posts. We can disagree without anger and can recognise the humanity in each other.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 6 June 2019 7:08:12 PM
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runner,

That is precisely the point.

Your own mouth or pen or in this case - computer
judges you. Therefore be carefully what you express
and how about others is all that's being advised
here. Practice what Christ taught if you are a
believer.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 6 June 2019 7:09:52 PM
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David f

I have no anger towards you. Why should I? I am however often angry about the murder of innocent lives. You obviously justify it by claiming the unborn is not human and renaming it. I am also angry when deviants force their immoral views down the throat of children and others. This is what Jesus said about those who cause little ones to sin

'But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea. Matthew 18:6

And yes that applies to religious people, priests and non religious. Do you agree with Jesus or is He being to 'judgemental'

And yes we are both human thus both corrupted and need the Only incorruptible One in our lives to save us.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 6 June 2019 7:49:02 PM
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Dear runner,

The fetus is human whether you call it a fetus or something else. I haven't renamed a fetus. That is the correct medical term. Those who call it an unborn baby have renamed it. Every sperm cell in a human male is human. Every egg cell in a human female is human. I am an undead human. Some day I will be a dead human. However, I think a woman has the right to terminate a pregnancy which means ending the existence of a fetus.

Jesus never disowned his religion. He was a Jew according to what is told of him. He was not a Christian. People who call themselves Christians have rejected the religion of Jesus. That is their right. They do not have to accept the religion of Jesus, but it doesn't seem honest to call themselves followers of Jesus and reject his religion.

I don't think there is a God. If I am right that means we are all godless. Some godless people think there is a God. You are a godless person who thinks there is a God. I am a godless person who doesn't think there is a God.

There are many religions. Most people with a religion have the same religion as their parents. I see no need for any religion. If a person is kind, considerate and caring it doesn't matter what that person believes. If a person is not kind, considerate and caring it doesn't matter what that person believes either.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 6 June 2019 9:02:09 PM
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'If a person is not kind, considerate and caring it doesn't matter what that person believes either.'

Yep tearing up the bodies of the unborn is very 'kind' David f.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 6 June 2019 10:26:43 PM
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Dear runner,

You don't really seem to care what a pregnant woman wants. Most people think a woman has the right to decide whether she wants to continue a pregnancy. Our current law reflects that view. If you ban legal abortion the backyard butchers, attempted abortion by knitting needle and suicide by desperate women will all come back. Whether you want it or not that is what will happen. In my view that is much more immoral than legal abortion. We differ on what is moral and what is immoral. Who are you to override a woman's choice? I think your opposition to legal abortion is immoral.
Posted by david f, Friday, 7 June 2019 4:12:30 AM
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To David f.

Although I think pornography is a bad thing, I'd be more ok with it being only there for those who are at least adults. With that in mind porn shops aren't as much my concern as the internet's one click away from any fantasy. I'm not as knowledgeable of the apps or the devices that restrict access for parents to use for their kids. I hope they work well, and if so that helps relieve a lot of the burden for this topic in that I'm presenting for.

For that I just wanted to thank you. I don't know if they do a good job or not but at least it's something. And that's a start.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Saturday, 8 June 2019 3:52:35 AM
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Dear NNS,

One problem with abortion, pornography, alcohol, prostitution, addictive drugs or other activities that satisfy human desires but also have bad effects is that if you ban them, they go underground. They continue as illegal activities. They finance crime. There is no way to protect the people who engage in those activities. They increase police corruption as police are paid off to let those activities continue.

I could live in a world where there was no abortion, pornography, alcohol, addictive drugs, gambling or prostitution. I've had one alcoholic drink this year. The community where I live is Prins Willem Alexander Retirement Village which is primarily for the Dutch in Australia. The one drink I had was a toast to the King of the Netherlands when the Dutch ambassador visited. Although I sometimes look at pornography it would be no hardship for me to be without it. I don’t gamble. I am very happily married. I have never smoked pot or used any other narcotic. I could also live in a world without prostitution, addictive drugs or abortion.

However, to live in such a world is not an available choice. There is no such world. The choice we have is to make these activities legal or illegal. If these activities are legal they can be regulated. Addiction to substances, gambling or sex can be treated as a medical rather than a criminal problem. Abortion can be a medical procedure which a woman can freely choose. Contraceptive devices and education can make it less likely that a woman needs an abortion. Police are free to pursue murder, rape, robbery and other crimes.

From “The Official History of Criminal Justice in England and Wales”:

“Adult sexual behavior not involving minors, force, fraud or public indecency belongs to the realm of private conduct, not of criminal law. Nearly all civilized countries recognize the futility of making into crimes what are regarded as sins against morality.”
Posted by david f, Saturday, 8 June 2019 5:46:55 AM
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To David F.

I disagree with the idea of making everything legal in order to try and control it. Some things you have to stand against by the laws saying this or that is illegal. By making an activity illegal, you remove it from being an industry that becomes a business, to being a criminal activity that has criminal elements in it. The trade off is that an industry will be more used being a business, but the criminal element will invite underground elements and feed both organized and amateur crime rates.

There are some drugs that should stay illegal. Don't let them become part of a cooperation. Don't make a business out of the same things that greatly harm people and society. It's asking for more trouble then is recognized.

With regards to legalizing or criminalizing certain behaviors, such as abortion, prostitution, gambling and such the same is true as it is for legalizing drugs. Making it illegal adds it to a chain of criminal undercurrents, but making it legal will make it an industry that will be used more. For instance can you imagine if murder was legal? If there was a legal route to have licensed hit men, and have that as a business plan? In the same way that certain drugs should not be legal because of the effects they put on a person (as well as the risk for death in one dose from certain drugs); certain behaviors should not be legal in order to remove them from criminal undercurrents.

(Continued)
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Sunday, 9 June 2019 1:28:43 AM
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(Continued)

Moving the topic back to pornography. I understand that you have to pick your battles. We live in a broken world because we as a human race are broken. With that in mind reducing the harm is sometimes all that can be done so that you can focus your resources and your police on the worse offenses. Restricting porn from a minor is worth the effort though, even if you recognize that it is a bad element in society and let it be there for adults. If it was possible to make the porn industry safe for those in it that would be great too. However unless a country is ready to censor the Internet, there is no way to fight pornography that comes from a source that forces itself on the people they photograph or film, or they use human trafficking and drugs as part of their criminal activity (which porn is just part of, regardless if porn is legal or not).
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Sunday, 9 June 2019 1:30:50 AM
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Dear NNS,

I don't agree that the human race is broken. I think that is your religion talking. In what way is the human race broken? We humans are just one of the species of life on earth. Individuals of our species have the drives to survive and reproduce as do individuals of other species. Some species of life form collectives and live together in groups with different individuals having different functions such as bees, ants and our species. We have more elaborate societies than other social animals. We invent religions and Gods. Part of our problem is that some of the religions we invent don't recognise that we are part of nature but regard us as somehow above it. I think we would be better off if we recognised that we are part of nature. Why do you think the human race is broken?
Posted by david f, Sunday, 9 June 2019 9:11:20 AM
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To David f.

Are you sure you mean what you say? In an earlier post you make it sound like there's nothing that can be done about some of the harms done by people. That you must just let them be. Now you refuse to see mankind as broken in one sense or another. It would be better to realize how mankind is broken and be prepared for it, then to say nothing can be fixed and nothing is wrong.

You can blame these observations on my religious views. That everyone sins and no one is perfect. Or you can look at the world without a religion and come to the same conclusion. Murder, crime, and evil exists among all parts of society in every country by those who break the law. While at the same time, corruption, greed, and neglect exist in every country by those who make the laws and hold the authority of the land.

I don't mean to remove the wonder that can come from people, and the inspiring good deeds. However, it doesn't take much to realize that mankind is it's own environment of its own faults. In governments of corruption, politics invites the same. No one tries to fix the issue, only to try to play the field to win. The same with businesses and greed with regards to CEOs and business plans. The observations can go on and on, from large scale patterns, to individual life stories. The truth is that both on a large scale and individually, mankind is broken.

With that in mind I stick by what I said earlier. Sometimes you have to choose your battles and focus your resources to put out the bigger fires in the world. Restricting access to porn is worth doing for minors, just as we do it for drugs, and drinking.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Sunday, 9 June 2019 4:13:20 PM
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Dear NNS,

Are there other species besides humans that you consider broken? Are sheep and wolves also broken? I am concerned about our natural environment. By treating it better we help to make the world a better place for humans and other species. I am also concerned about militarism. The making of armaments for profit, nationalism and the rivalries that go with nationalism can lead to war. In Australia the military budget does not even get debated in parliament. My next concern is the divisive force of religion. Religion is a force for many of the animosities that cause people to hate one another. People may regard another group of people who don't subscribe to similar mumbojumbo as less worthy. In most of the western world separation of religion and state has made religion less damaging. In Australia I would eliminate subsidies to non-state schools and chaplains in the state schools. I am also concerned about the fact the many children are not well educated in science and the arts. I am also concerned by the attempt to turn back woman's rights in such matters as making it more difficult to get an abortion or an education, to keep her from deciding whether or who she wants to marry and in general to put limits on what she wants to do with her life. When my wife went to university, teaching, the library and nursing were about the only professions open to women. In most of the western countries and some of the eastern ones the situation now is much better. I am concerned about the lack of freedom in the world. I also would like the end of rock music. What are your main concerns?

As far as porn goes I agree with you in restricting access to it by minors. I don’t know how to manage it, but I would like to see all children not just restricted from porn but also treated with love. I would like to see all people treated with love. Though I disagree with you I should treat you with kindness.
Posted by david f, Sunday, 9 June 2019 5:52:24 PM
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David,

"Jesus never disowned his religion. He was a Jew according to what is told of him. He was not a Christian"

He certainly was not a Christian, to be a follower of Himself would have been out of character.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 9 June 2019 5:52:40 PM
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To David F.

Many other species highlight the brokenness of the world. Even to be an example to us if we study them. Both as a source of inspiration to observe the struggles and faults in the natural world; as well as the inspiring way some animals deal in an unfair situation.

Did you know that some birds are very adulterous, but they still raise and protect the baby birds as if the bird couple were faithful to each other? This is one example in nature where a species rises above the difficulties in life (both for survival against predators and loyalty in the family and towards the family) they are in a witness to us.

With sheep and wolves. Sheep are reliant on mankind to tend to them and care for them. But I have heard some very humorous or aggravating stories of how stubborn and dumb sheep can be. Wolves though they have the good qualities of loyalty and kinsmen ship and teamwork of the pack, they also highlight a brokenness of the world we live in the competitive nature of predator and prey. A Shepard looking after sheep might recognize the difficulties to overcome with sheep, as well as the dangers of predators like wolves. At least acknowledging and respecting the situation they are in, so to better tend to their duties as a Shepard.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Monday, 10 June 2019 12:21:03 AM
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David f.

You shared your concerns and asked for mine. Like your concerns, mine are from what I've seen and tried to deal with. I come from a background of being slightly broken. Speed is alway a ticking clock that I lose the race on every time. With that in mind I notice more when someone has a struggle and is handicapped.

My concerns for the world? Look after the widow and the orphan. Tend to the sick and visit those in prison. The world is broken for those who are not on the top of the world, and so compassion is one of the greatest concerns to me. Because throughout my life the two glaring observations that I see is my own faults at not being good enough, as well as the kindness and compassion that I'm blessed to have received that helps me at every age of my life. There are other concerns, but the main one is to help mend a broken and ever breaking world. I'm not that great at meeting these concerns, but they are some of the concerns. How to overcome and push through a struggle whether it's self inflicted or it's something you have no control over. Small things and moves that make it easier to make the right decision or to lessen the burden, are the concerns I see or try to offer.

Porn is like a drug. It is an extra burden. It can do harm to those who watch it, and is both easy to access as well as hard to quit. Those who don't get addicted to meth are better off then those that do and who struggle to get away from it's grip. The same is true with porn. It's a problem in society that breaks many relationships. Divorce rates don't have to be as high as they are if we actually care to make it easier and less of a burden in the everyday lives of people.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Monday, 10 June 2019 12:39:38 AM
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Dear NNS,

I don’t know what you mean by broken. People and other animals don’t behave as you would have them behave. Does that mean they are broken?
You have been anthropomorphising birds. Birds do not have marriage so cannot be adulterous. Birds have partners and sometimes have sex with birds other than their partners. There are no standards of sexual morality among other animals and no universal standards among humans. I doubt that there was such a thing as marriage among early humans. They had sex or the species wouldn't have continued. Mothers looked after their offspring or the species wouldn't have continued. The early humans probably lived much like the other animals. There is no reason for birds, or humans for that matter, to follow your standards of morality.

I don’t think that watching pornography is harmful in itself. Addiction to it or patterning one’s real life relationship on what they see in porn can be harmful. Other than that I don’t think it is harmful. Children below puberty I don’t think are particularly interested in it.

I remember watching a debate between DA Arlen Specter and a representative of the ACLU (American Committee for Civil Liberties) on porn. Specter was for banning, and the ACLU man was arguing against it.

Specter went on about how horrible it was and described scenes of depravity in porn. The material had been confiscated in police raids. Specter had gone through a lot of the stuff. The ACLU man outlined Specter’s career as a crime fighter and public servant. As he was doing so Specter swelled up with pride. The ACLU man then said to Specter, “You have spent a lot of time looking at the stuff and getting thoroughly conversant with it?” Specter said, “Yes.” The ACLU man then said, “Doesn’t seem to have hurt you a bit.”

Both Specter and you are trying to put your standards of morality on other people. Maybe you are getting unnecessarily excited
Posted by david f, Monday, 10 June 2019 8:48:36 AM
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Dear Is Mise,

Your logic is impeccable. Jesus could not be a Christian. However, not only was Jesus not a Christian, he was not the founder of Christianity. Jesus was the leader of a Jewish cult. All or almost all the followers of Jesus were Jews. Paul tried to convert gentiles to the Jewish cult. He succeeded, but what happened to the Jews who were members of the cult. They were wiped out by the Romans in 70 AD and the failed Jewish revolt. Paul was really the founder of Christianity not Jesus.
Posted by david f, Monday, 10 June 2019 9:55:39 AM
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History is full of lies. Let us not worry about who formed what religion. Let us ponder over whether all the religions created on the earth have achieved the goals they envisaged.That will do a lot of good for the humanity.
Posted by Ezhil, Monday, 10 June 2019 2:21:31 PM
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To David f.

It's unlikely we're going to come to agreement on pornography. Actually I'm glad that we agree on it as much as we do to at least have it restricted from children and minors. I would like one more challenge for you though. When I've come across the topic of porn in any article or in stories from people's lives. There's never been a positive remark about it. No positive elements that relate to marriage, but instead has been an issue read or heard about that was a defining element leading to divorce. So with this in mind, if you have any source of information of a married couple that wasn't negatively influenced by porn, I'd like to hear it. If you can do better and say that you know of some who think porn in their relationship was a good thing, then yes let me know. Nothing I've seen researched or antidotes heard about porn lead to healthy relationships. For now it seems to be somewhere between open relationships and adultery for the kind of havoc porn does to a relationship. Just a bad idea for any relationship, and for many people an addictive habit they can't kick once they're married. (Look up stats on reason people divorce. Porn is surveyed as a very high percentage for the reason).

As for the birds. I'm sorry for not making it clear. In the animal kingdom where so many species kill the children of the previous father when one takes over as the dominant male in a pack or an animal's family, the small tidbit that many birds are life long partners but unfaithful was a surprise. It was a positive attribute that even if the baby birds were not the father's he would still hunt for them and protect them. In the harsh reality of nature where survival is a top priority, a little bit of surprising family values in the animal kingdom was a refreshing tidbit.

(Continued)
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 2:37:01 AM
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(Continued)

You might not like my reference to the world being broken. But so far you haven't refuted any of the points I made. Just challenged me on judging animals. I'll make it a step easier for you. In the logic that the world is broken, I'm including myself in that perspective. It's not just everyone sins. It's that everyone struggles and fails, actively or accidentally harms others, and are more self absorbed then not. Everyone has a struggle and a hurdle. In our struggles people can do wonders of compassion, just as easily as they turn into a monster under the pressure and hurt of the world we live in. It's the soup we're brewing in, the environment that we live our entire lives in. And yes it's devastatingly broken.

To Ezhil.

When comparing religions don't group them all together as if they are the same. That said, what goals for the world are you talking about? Is it Buddhist goal to seek enlightenment by denying both pain and pleasure, rewards and harms? Hindu goal to seek a better life for yourself and your next life? Christian goal to seek God, and turn from your sins? Or are they the goals that deal with the community which could be vastly different depending on the religion?

The one thing that I've heard is in most religions is some version of the golden rule. Treat others the way you want to be treated.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 2:42:19 AM
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Dear NNS,

We don’t have to come to agreement on porn or anything else for that matter. What we have to do is be civil with each other and accept that the other person has a different view. I think we are doing that at this time. That is the way to get along in a society. Live and let live. All I can get from your use of the word ‘broken’ is that other group of humans and other species of animals do not behave the way you want them to behave. I think you have made a value judgment that that is wrong. I have not made such a value judgment. If a male lion takes over a pride and kills the cubs of a previous father that is neither right nor wrong. That is normal lion behavior. We humans have developed moral codes where that behavior from a human male would not be acceptable. There may be human societies where that would be acceptable. Different human societies have different standards. The ancient Greeks would leave a handicapped baby in the wilds to die. We would not do that in our society. That does not mean the ancient Greeks were wrong, and we are right. That means that the ancient Greeks have different standards of what is wrong and right from us. We live in a different situation from the ancient Greeks and have the facilities to care for handicapped children. However, if most children were born handicapped we would be unable to care for them all. To deal with that we would have to have a lot of children and only care for the ones who weren’t handicapped if we wanted our society to survive.

Most religions have some version of the Golden Rule. Treat others as you would be treated. There is one big problem with the Golden Rule. Others might not want to be treated as you would be treated.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 6:10:21 AM
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Dear NNS,

You apparently think it is a good thing to be a missionary. I think it is a bad thing. I think other people with different beliefs from yours should be left alone. You might think that if you were not a Christian it would be great for someone to approach you with news of that faith. I am not a Christian and have disliked the many approaches of one kind or another from Christians who have tried to missionize me. Friday I was at a shopping centre, and I was approached three times by ladies from a local church trying to get customers.

If you adopted my views, it would be bad for you. It would alienate you from your church and your family.

I think there is a basic sickness at the heart of the Christian faith. The basic sickness is the belief that Jesus was a perfect man, and we should be like Jesus. Since no person can be perfect, trying to be perfect leads to failure, and failure leads to guilt. The guilt is neurotic since the failure to achieve an impossible goal is built in. So the sick Christian wails in his or her guilt, “We are all sinners.”

Other religions do not have that sickness. There is a Jewish story that tells of a different attitude. Reb Zosya said, “When I come before the Lord he won’t ask me why I wasn’t like Moses. He will ask me why I wasn’t like Zosya.” To ask that somebody achieve what it is in them to achieve is reasonable. To ask that somebody be perfect is unreasonable and a recipe for guilt.

Islam has Mohammed as a prophet not as a God. They do not have the Christian sickness.

Buddhists do not maintain that a God exists. They do not have the Christian sickness.

I agree with you that all religions are not the same. I think we could do without them all. However, I think Christianity with its record of violence and intolerance and its unreasonable demands is inferior to Judaism, Islam and Buddhism.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 6:46:11 AM
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To David F.

Moral relativism is a hypocritical cover. Saying both that no one should judge, while also at the same time saying the judgements and the standards that the person holding moral relativism holds. For instance consider your standards. Should you live and let live, or a stand up for the right for abortion? Or on a personal level, should you judge someone on their behavior such as your comments to Runner saying that you think he is an angry person, or should you say their morals are equally justified even if it is criminal (not meaning you Runner, just extending the point from personality clashes of moral relativity to the harder reality of saying moral relativity extends to gangs and murders). With this in mind I find your views of not judging the Greeks by ourstandards to be a hypocritical cover while also judging your perceptions of my views or morals.

{Sigh}

As I write this message I've checked back to the topic on Pornography and see your second reply. Do we really need to repeat the topic of missionaries here? On your views on Christianity? Have I said any points that are weak in themselves that they are not worth considering on their own?

(Continued)
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 8:17:13 AM
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(Continued)

Porn is harmful to a relationship. That is not my morals being forced on anyone. Nor is it my being uncivil by saying so. That's the data known from both what's studied on the subject, as well as what's observed when one partner discovers the other looks at porn. Those in the porn industry have shown no sign of it being a healthy industry to be in. Even those who go into it willingly. That is an observation. If that observation is inaccurate, then counter it with accurate info. However, even if those willing to go into porn are fine through some unstated standard, those that are forced into the industry from an unknown online source, are not so lucky. Again this is not my standards being pushed on another. These are points worth considering themselves. Are these points so weak that they are not worth considering? That the focus should be on my faith, or on unresolved discussions in the past?

If the points I made are not worth considering then how about my request?

<<If you have any source of information of a married couple that wasn't negatively influenced by porn, I'd like to hear it.>> [Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 2:37:01 AM]

__________________________________

To Ezhil.

I'm sorry if I seem hard in this topic. David and I have some history in past conversations. If you're willing, I would like to hear what you meant when talking about the goals envisioned by religions.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 8:22:59 AM
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Dear NNS,

I have no information about a married couple who was negatively influenced by porn. I have no information about a married couple who was positively influenced by porn. I have no information about a married couple who was influenced by porn in any way. I am sure that you have information about the negative influences of porn. I am equally sure that you would ignore anything that would mention the positive influences of porn. I would have to search for myself to make a determination about the subject, and I probably will not do it. I do know there is archeological evidence that porn has been around for thousands of years, and it is not a modern development. Porn like religion is a human invention. Banning porn or banning religion is a futile exercise. In my opinion religion is more harmful than porn, but it is futile to try to ban either.

You have gone on about your opinion of porn. However, you have cited nothing that would substantiate that opinion.

The centuries of intolerance, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the persecution of heretics, dissenters and Jews, the forcible conversion of native peoples and the Wars of the Reformation and the current attempt to roll back the rights of equality for women and homosexuals substantiate my negative view of your religion.

You don’t like porn, and you don’t like people doing things that you don’t like. That seems to be the reason for your negative view of porn. What you call an observation that porn is harmful is merely your opinion. I have no reason to accept your opinion.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 9:08:42 AM
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All religions preach love.They teach rather preach matters that will civilize man. But what do we see on earth? Animosity, bloodshed persecution and what not committed in the name of religion. Certainly that was not the intention of religions.If man cannot change for the better based on religious teachings then what is purpose of all religions?They are not for fun and frolic and to dress in a particular style.Matters concerning the mind and heart are not followed at all but the physical culture and the meaningless rituals dictated are being adopted without fail. Let us ponder over.
Posted by Ezhil, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 12:04:57 PM
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Here ya go David f.

4 sites on the effect of porn on those who watch it. 3 of those regarding porn's influence on the divorce rate. Also 6 sites from ex-porn stars regarding the porn industry. Educate yourself. Or don't. That's your call not mine. I've looked into it though. This isn't just opinions without data.
______________________________
Harm from watching porn.
________________________________
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/08/divorce-rates-double-when-people-start-watching-porn

https://fightthenewdrug.org/research-says-married-couples-who-watch-porn-are-twice-as-likely-to-divorce/

https://verilymag.com/2017/07/causes-of-divorce-effects-of-watching-pornography

https://fightthenewdrug.org/3-reasons-why-watching-porn-is-harmful/

__________________________
From inside the industry.
___________________________
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d8PYWIN_urQ

https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/former-porn-star-porn-was-the-worst-darkest-thing-ive-ever-been-involved-in

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/top-googled-porn-star-exits-industry-reveals-shocking-truth-about-life-on-t

http://fortune.com/2016/02/05/this-is-what-its-really-like-to-work-in-porn/

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/former-porn-star-bree-olsen-goes-public-im-shunned-by-society/news-story/106695d7e5eec3e050538697cfac7d28

https://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/ex-porn-star-speaks-out-about-sex-addiction-in-por
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 12:10:17 PM
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To Ezhil.

So that's what you meant. Thank you for clearing that up. The reason I say not to generalize all religions together is because it stops any accountability from happening and goes on a witch hunt against religion in general.

The churches that I've been around try to make a better community for the area that they are in. If there is any bloodshed in them then be specific about it so they can be held accountable. There are other faults that I've seen. I would rather those issues be addressed and fixed or at least held accountable for.

The goals of every religion are different. Don't generalize religions themselves any more then you generalize the faults that should be dealt with. Let each organization be held accountable for what they do well, and what they do wrong. That includes the organizations from different religions, as well as organizations that are secular and follow a different philosophy or no philosophy at all.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 12:51:35 PM
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Dear NNS,

I have looked at the references you cite and agree that porn does more harm than good. The studies you cited show its effects on adults.

As a side note I used to work for Philips, the Dutch electronic corporation. We got a request from the Saudi Arabian government to design a device that could examine the contents of a shipping container without opening it. They wanted the device to detect alcohol, weapons, subversive literature and porn. We refused the request because it was beyond our capability.

The studies you cite tell of the bad effects of porn. However, what are the effects of banning porn?

https://www.quora.com/Are-there-countries-where-pornography-is-illegal is a website which gives a partial answer to that question.

According to that site the countries that ban porn have a high rate of porn watchers.

A comment is interesting.

“Porn is illegal throughout the Middle East (Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and so on); China; North Korea; Turkmenistan; Vietnam Nam; Cuba; and Burma, among other places.

Generally speaking, there's a strong correlation between prevalence of porn in a country and respect for individual liberties and women’s rights in that country. The more oppression there is in a country, the more likely porn is to be outlawed.”

With all the damage alcohol does it was worse to ban it in the US than allow it. I think the same thing goes for porn. I agree that porn is not good, but I think banning porn is worse than porn.

I think our society has reasonable restraints on porn.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 3:07:30 PM
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The effects of porn can be argued; what is not arguable is the benefit to all if posters would remove the 's' from 'https'.

OLO is apparently designed(??) to only respond to 'http', so, as a boon to all, please remove the surplus 's'.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 3:28:38 PM
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Dear Ise Mise,

Why is the s there? What does it do?
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 11 June 2019 5:01:35 PM
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To David f.

I don't see a connection between banning or allowing porn, and whether a country holds civil liberties for the people living there.

I had an intro to statistics class once where a teacher gave an Interesting example where correlation between two things does not mean causation. The example was that the there was a correlation between the rising sale of ice cream, and the increased rate of rapes. The teacher let us think about it before asking "what do you think is the underlying cause between both ice cream sales and rape." The answer was they both occur more on warmer days. Summer time was the underlying cause, not that the other two had anything to do with one another. The point of the lesson could be applied here. Don't assume a correlation (if it's really there) is confused with a causation between two things. There might be an underlying factor between both.

As for banning porn, I've already said that I don't think this is something that can be done easily, and all I would expect in today's world would be to try and successfully restrict it to adults. Even that might be too much to do because it would require a different way we handle the Internet and censoring, monitoring or restricting access to parts of it. Maybe all we can do is have those programs and apps that censor porn sites more available and known to parents. Make the burden easier for them.

On another note. The "s" on the https links I think ether means secure or security. I heard about it a while ago for a format that makes it harder to have viruses on the site your visiting, or it makes the site private so that a hacker isn't able to watch your key strokes or something. Sorry I don't remember which of those two that the "s" in the link is suppose to represent doing, but it was one of those I think. (Maybe both?)
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Wednesday, 12 June 2019 2:36:52 AM
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Dear NNS,

You wrote: “I don't see a connection between banning or allowing porn, and whether a country holds civil liberties for the people living there.”

Porn is a form of expression. If you can ban porn you can ban other forms of expression. That means a decrease in civil liberties,

As you stated correctly correlation does not mean causation. You cited studies showing a correlation between viewing porn and the divorce rate of those who view porn. That does not mean that viewing porn was a cause of divorce. There could be some other cause for both viewing porn and the divorce rate. Viewing porn could be a symptom of marital discord rather than a cause of it.

You wrote that you didn’t want to ban porn. I don’t want to ban porn. If you would put no additional restrictions on porn than we have now, what are we arguing about?
Posted by david f, Wednesday, 12 June 2019 9:54:17 AM
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Viewing porn cannot be considered a civil liberty. More over civil liberties cannot go against public decency and civilised behaviour.An individual watching another person's sexual activity for whatever reason cannot be called a civil liberty and a civilised behaviour.Statistics has limitations in its application for social behaviour.Psychologists must participate in this kind of topic. Let us have the ability to distinguish between what is normal and otherwise.Money mindedness makes a mess of everything.People who amass wealth by foul means will resort to all sorts of abnormal activities.
Posted by Ezhil, Wednesday, 12 June 2019 11:27:18 AM
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To David f.

It's not that I don't want to be rid of porn. It's that I don't think we can successfully snuff it out. As for why we're arguing. It's over 1) whether porn is bad or not, and 2) aparantly my reasoning to not ban porn was a reason you couldn't allow.

Maybe I offended you by saying the wold is broken and mankind is broken. That porn is harmful and there's nothing we can do to get rid of it any more then there's anything we can do to successfully get rid of poverty, or to successfully end deaths from drunk drivers. Thus the concept that the world is broken and we can't fix everything so choose your battles.

As for the argument that porn is a form of expression. I disagree with that completely. Porn is an industry. The closest industry porn can be considered part of is the entertainment industry. Except that. If the entertainment industry had the harms in it for either the performers, or the audience, then there would likely be some kind of social movement to change that industry or to get rid of it. Right now. People are still arguing whether. Porn is bad or not. Even if it is harmful or if people are complaining solely because they disagree with it (not because of harm).

Other industries (besides entertainment) that porn is part of is the human trafficking industry, and the drug industry. The relationships between those industries are connected to porn, just as much as illegal weapons and illegal drugs are industries connected to eachother.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Thursday, 13 June 2019 12:12:05 AM
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Dear NNS,

Your statement that the world is broken and that mankind is broken implies that in some way the world and mankind are a failure in not reaching some ideal. At least that is how I interpret your remark.

Since I assume the world and mankind are what they are saying they are broken has no meaning to me. How are they broken?
Posted by david f, Thursday, 13 June 2019 9:22:53 AM
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To David f.

I think I gave enough examples in my past replies to explain the world's brokenness. I'll give a few more in this reply, but first a question for you. Why is this so important to you? As you said earlier, "why are we still arguing?"

The world being broken is two part in observations. The first is the world is broken by looking at the world itself. There is so much brokenness in it. Things that an not be resolved. You can help one person maybe even a dozen people to be better then the environment that is broken around them. But you can't fix the environment.

For instance look at politics and politicians. The system of getting things done usually involves lying, false promises, and smear campaigns against others just to get in the door and get voted into an office. The more powerful the office the more true this situation is. From there getting anything done goes through the process both working as a team in the opposing parties and working against the opposing teams. (One party is working together for their issues, while opposing the actions of another party). This isn't just about whether the political parties can agree or not on some issues, and work towards the same goal. But it's about gaining and retaining power from the opposing political parties. In that light there is a reason to drag the other parties decisions and their politicians through the mud when there is an opportunity. Because that mean more of the public will disagree with them and likely vote for you.

(Continued)
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Saturday, 15 June 2019 3:35:06 AM
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(Continued)

This is ignoring the greed, corruption, selfishness, and general lack of caring for the people who voted a politician in office, that persist in the political world. All this is looking at is the dynamics of politics. If politicians go further then just an office in parliament or a congress and becomes the leader of a country, an added level political games and hazards forms by entering That part of world politics. I would say politics is part of the brokenness of the world because if a good man entered the political world, in order to be successful he has to become a corrupt politician.

The dynamics of cooperations changing leaderships, CEOs, and stock market (or even quarter reports) is another system that strains a person at the top from taking care of their company and employees properly instead of, cutting corners for a higher quarter and better stocks in their portfolio before they jump ship to be a CEO in a different or a larger company.

The dynamics of politics strains a person to being corrupt and back-stabbing to those they work with. The dynamics of business strains a person against following through and having loyalty to either the employees or the product. There are many others. The dynamics of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer is another. Issues of fighting crime, fighting drugs, fight poverty, and standing against many other woes of the world have the reality that if you take in one criminal and either put them in prison or, have them turn over a new leaf, there are others that will replace them. Especially with lucrative and harmful prospects like drug making and selling. Porn fits into this area of dynamics. You can fight against it and make some progress (or just clean up a small part of it for a while) but it doesn't last. You can't fix the problem completely. (If porn is too close of a topic you favor, then consider child porn, and how hard it is to successfully get rid of it).

(Continued)
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Saturday, 15 June 2019 3:42:05 AM
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(Continued)

I said there are two parts of looking at the brokenness of the world. The first is looking at the world and it's dynamics. The second is by looking at the individuals. Basically by looking at the dynamics of the world you can see the struggle to fight against being corrupted by the environment you are in. By looking at the individuals and how we are all coming short on one quality or another to be the good people we're suppose to be creates a different dynamic of individuals making a situation worse. Allowing and accepting this part of ourselves and this part in others is what it means to be understanding, forgiving and merciful. But that said, everyone has at least a few things to work on in themselves if they are willing. Working on making yourself better has a positive influence on the enviornment you are in.

Now that I've explained it, the question now rests on you David. Before you say this is meaningless or that you don't understand what I mean by the world being broken (if that was going to be your response). I ask the question I stated earlier.

Why is this important to you? Why are we still arguing?
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Saturday, 15 June 2019 3:43:33 AM
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Dear NNS,

We are no longer arguing as I am weary of this exchange. I listed the things that are important to me several posts back. Porn is not something that bothers me. The attempt to censor bothers me, but I am satisfied with the present restrictions on porn. I don't want less or more.

Maybe we can discuss or argue about something else in the future.

We can agree that it is good to make ourselves better although we may disagree on how to do it.

I can try to be more caring and tolerant and also to keep mind and body active.

I would comment on one thing that you wrote. You wrote "it's dynamics"

It's is the abbreviation of it is. For the possessive 'its' should be used.
Posted by david f, Saturday, 15 June 2019 4:08:53 AM
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First of all man does not require porno. Porno is misuse of technology for making a living.Porno people make a lavish living at the cost of decency and morality of civil society.They never care a bit for the society. How porno can affect society can be discussed elaborately but here it is beyond the limits.
There is no restriction of porno at all. When it is available in public domain like the internet how can any one say there is restriction? In a civilised society porno should be made illegal.Let us not talk of restriction but of banning it for the sake of welfare of future citizens of the world.
Posted by Ezhil, Saturday, 15 June 2019 4:58:13 PM
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To Ezhil.

When you talk about banning porn, are you only including real people in pictures and videos, or are you including other art and sculptures and such. The problem with trying to ban porn is that there is a lot of erotic stuff that is in art, and part of the classics throughout history. Even without going down the road of old historic pieces, defining what porn is and isn't to ban might be more of an issue then you realize.

I don't think porn is going to be banned so easily. The reasoning to ban it completely can lead to a part of culture that people don't want to toss. As well as lead to other to ban all things erotic in one way or another.

It's a bigger battle then I think you realize. It's why I think restricting porn is all that we can do.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Sunday, 16 June 2019 7:20:36 AM
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I was born in 1925 in the US. Alcohol, gambling, porn, abortion and drugs were all banned. There were great crime empires supported by supplying of the demand for alcohol. Police were corrupted as they and politicians were paid off not to bother the hordes of speakeasies. People were suffering, going blind and dying from the substances in illegal alcohol.

As far as I am concerned if alcohol could be effectively banned I think it would be a good thing. Traffic deaths due to alcohol would disappear. There would be no addicts. However, we know from historical experience that banning alcohol doesn’t work. Alcohol is bad. It does more harm than it does good. I am almost a total abstainer. However, we know what harm banning alcohol does.

One can say the same thing about gambling, porn, abortion and drugs. One can make the case that they do more harm than they do good. However, I think the same thing applies to them. There is a greater harm banning them than there is having them legal.

There is a tendency to attack what one does not like and to ignore greater damage that can be done in another way. Some people who don’t like alcohol, gambling, porn, abortion and drugs ignore the greater damage can be done by banning them.

A few years ago I went to an atheist’s convention in Melbourne. There was a lot of gaiety and discussion but no gambling and very little drinking. I observed no porn or drugs. However, we were picketed by groups of Muslims and Christians. Muslims gamble and Christians drink, but they were more concerned with people who think differently from them. Nearby was that den of vice, the Crown Casino, where various unwholesome activities were going on with the sanctions of the government. I do not think gambling should be illegal, but I think it is immoral. I don’t think the government should be promoting it or making money from it. However, the Christians and Muslims chose to picket respectable, clean-living atheists rather than the den of vice.
Posted by david f, Sunday, 16 June 2019 8:33:57 AM
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Restriction of porn may be the immediate thing to do. But the long term goal should be to ban it.Let us not compare the past with the present as modern man is likely to be much more civilised. The past was the era of kings and rajahs. We know the quality of those ruling class of yester years. They were not men of character.They were mostly goondas except a few.The erotic culture promoted by them was probably not questioned as subjects were powerless and could not utter a word against it. Let us consider ourselves more civilized and also we live in an era much different from the distant past.Justification from the history is unwarranted and has no rationale.Without a legal ban the porn will certainly flourish uncontrolled.
Posted by Ezhil, Sunday, 16 June 2019 2:10:12 PM
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Ezhil,
This is not about the justifications of the past - this is about freedom. Banning porn would be an unwarranted intrusion, and such a ban would not be respected by the people.

>Without a legal ban the porn will certainly flourish uncontrolled.
They said that about alcohol and in the short term that too flourished without a ban. But more recently there's been a huge decline in alcohol consumption. Why do you imagine the same won't happen with porn in the future?
Posted by Aidan, Sunday, 16 June 2019 2:42:58 PM
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What freedom you are talking about?People should not have the freedom to show their sexual act in the open.Banning porn will not affect people in any respect as it is not needed for both physical and mental health. Rather it is known to corrupt people's mind. Knowing pretty well that porn is not an essential item why should we allow it to go unchecked? Many things may see their natural death ultimately. This does not mean that such obnoxious practice also should be allowed to see its end naturally and no control or ban is needed. The freedom you are talking about to see porn is made possible because of gadgets such as camera, internet, TV etc.Without them you will not have this great freedom to watch porn. Let us change for the better.
Posted by Ezhil, Sunday, 16 June 2019 5:14:56 PM
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Religion corrupts people's minds. Possibly the worst is Christianity with its tripartite god, virgin birth, man-god, eternal life and other nonsense. With its history of horrors it has done far more harm than porn. However, I would not ban it. People are free to accept the nonsense. If one can accept freedom of religion I can't see banning porn which is far less harmful.
Posted by david f, Sunday, 16 June 2019 9:35:41 PM
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I fully agree with your opinion that religion also corrupts the mind. But religion can never be compared with porn.Religion is faith based whereas porn is basal pleasure and technology based.Justifying porn ignoring its harms to especially children because there are many other things including the religions that harm society does not stand to reason. Is it rational to add one more harm to the already existing ones.I think it will not be prudent to do that. Let us try to reduce harmful influences as much as we can.But whatever is its legitimacy, the fact is that porno is misuse of of technology for making easy money at the cost of self respect and morality.
Posted by Ezhil, Sunday, 16 June 2019 11:51:43 PM
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To Ezhil.

If there was a measure to reduce, restrict, or ban porn, I'd support it. I don't know if there's anything we can do to successfully get rid of it all, but I know the need to do so. Twice in my life I've been greatly pulled towards porn, and let it's posion into me. Once as a teen because of the easy access to it through the Internet, and another times an adult after a hard breakup. Both times porn became the thing that is hard to turn away from, like liquor to an alocholic.

If porn was restricted and had reduced access, I'm sure the effect of that would help society greatly. Good luck in your endeavors against porn. It's needed, but I don't know if we can successfully be rid of it. The world is broken, and too often enjoys the evils, harms, and darkness in it, instead of trying to help make it a better place.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Monday, 17 June 2019 3:33:00 AM
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Dear Ezhil.

The problem with religion is that it is faith based. A person using his or her reason would not accept the mumbojumbo of religion. Religion asks one to put one's reason aside and accept nonsense on faith. Religion asks one not to question. The Renaissance and the scientific revolution were spurred by questioning religion. The Christian religion has inspired the murder of people with great scientific minds such as Hypatia murdered by a Christian mob, Servetus burned at the stake and Giordano Bruno burned at the stake.

Yet in a free society we must have freedom of religion. To ban porn and to accept Christianity is straining at eating a gnat while swallowing an elephant. It is ignoring a great evil while getting excited over a minor one.

The desire for porn and the desire for religion are inherent in humanity judging from the great antiquity found in the evidence for both. It is futile to try to ban either. To try to ban what is inherent in humanity is a recipe for tyranny.
Posted by david f, Monday, 17 June 2019 7:55:35 AM
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There can be an inherent desire only for sex and not for porn as it is the invention of dirty minds and of recent origin.Similarly the religions flourish because of the social problems that affect man. Unable to get solutions from fellow men man tries to get some salvation from institutions such as religion and god.Therefore if we try our best to tackle social issues earnestly then the stranglehold of religion and god on the people can at least be reduced. Any way the issue raised is whether children can have access to porn or not and whether porn is a necessity for man. Let us talk on it more.
Posted by Ezhil, Monday, 17 June 2019 12:46:18 PM
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Dear Ezhil,

Porn is not of recent origin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_erotic_depictions

“The history of erotic depictions includes paintings, sculpture, photographs, dramatic arts, music and writings that show scenes of a sexual nature throughout time. They have been created by nearly every civilization, ancient and modern. Early cultures often associated the sexual act with supernatural forces and thus their religion is intertwined with such depictions. In Asian countries such as India, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Japan and China, representations of sex and erotic art have specific spiritual meanings within native religions. The ancient Greeks and Romans produced much art and decoration of an erotic nature, much of it integrated with their religious beliefs and cultural practices.”

Not only is porn as old as religion it has been intertwined with religion. Please consult the reference above.
Posted by david f, Monday, 17 June 2019 1:28:39 PM
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I am talking about the recent pornography and not the porn arts etc.Leaving aside all those primitive cultural practices let us create a new civilisation in which pornography is not allowed to make easy money with utter disregard for public decency and morality,which ultimately leads to social problems.
Posted by Ezhil, Monday, 17 June 2019 4:57:06 PM
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Dear Ezhil,

I don't want to create a new civilization. I like what we have now with freedom of religion, freedom of art and freedom of political opinion. I like what we have now with morality not the business of government and art including pornography. Nobody could make any money from porn, drugs, alcohol and religion if people did not want it. The recent pornography is just a continuation of the past using modern technology. There are moral police in restrictive societies such as Saudi Arabia. In a free society morality is not the business of government.

We all have moral standards. What I think is important is that everybody has access to a good education and good medical care. I would not put my morality on anybody else. I don't like liquor and gambling, but I would not interfere with those who like it. I like to look at porn occasionally, and I don't want anybody interfering with my amusements.

There are social problems such as war, poverty, disease, inequity of resources, global warming, species extinction and uncontrolled population increase. Morality and decency are defined differently by different groups and individuals. For those who don't like or don't want porn stay away from it. That's easy to do, but leave others alone.

The urge to ban what you don't like is a social problem. Banning porn is a social problem.
Posted by david f, Monday, 17 June 2019 5:32:56 PM
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You seem to be a hard core pessimist and a self centered individual.You always try to take the discussion away from the main topic.It appears that you argue for the sake of argument. I am no more interested to continue the discussion with you. But I am for banning porn. Let us stop with this
Posted by Ezhil, Monday, 17 June 2019 10:53:58 PM
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