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The Forum > General Discussion > New Start = No Start

New Start = No Start

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Labor, should they win the upcoming election must stop pussyfooting around about a review of 'Newstart'. A new Labor government should up Newstart from a starvation payment, to a livable allowance immediately, in my opinion.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 16 May 2019 5:51:28 AM
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Dear Paul,

The Poverty in Australia Report 2018, tries to ensure
that the Australian community understands the
prevalence and profile of poverty in Australia. It
uses the latest data from the Australian Bureau of
Statistics (ABS).

We're told that despite Australia enjoying consistent
economic growth over the last 3 decades and currently
ranked as the 2nd wealthiest country in the world -
poverty rates have remained entrenched at a high
level.

There are more than 3 million people living below
the poverty line in Australia, including 739,000
children.

Unsurprisingly those experiencing poverty at the
highest rates are those relying on government
allowances - youth allowance (64%) and Newstart (55%).

Australia, we're told in the report, currently lacks
a poverty reduction plan. As yet we don't even have
an agreed national definition of poverty or regular
monitoring and reporting by governments on progress to
address it.

This has to change and hopefully it will be taken on
after the election on Saturday - should a new government
be elected.

http://www.acoss.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/ACOSS_Poverty-in-Australia-Report_Web-Final.pdf
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 16 May 2019 11:07:39 AM
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Dear Paul,

I wholeheartedly agree, but the name "Newstart" ought to be changed: the poor indeed ought to have minimal living standards, but that's because they are genuinely poor, not because they pretend to be looking for a job.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 16 May 2019 11:18:25 AM
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Yes I agree, we have made promises in this area, and need to follow on and do it
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 16 May 2019 12:47:09 PM
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New start is of course not meant to be a living wage, it is meant to help people between jobs. Give a living wage to many of the bludgers around here, & you would never get them to consider looking for work.

No one is entitled to live long term with out really trying to get a job. There are other forms of support for those who are not able to work for a living.

Foxy do you actually believe that stuff. These bleeding heart reports always look like they are done by someone who's income depends on the amount of money the long suffering tax payer has to front up for welfare.

I have not changed my view of this, even though I am now a recipient, not a payer of welfare. I am slightly embarrassed when I see pensioner organisations bitching they don't get enough of other peoples money. After all it is their & my kids who have to pay for that welfare, not some nebulous government department.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 16 May 2019 12:52:56 PM
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teaching people how to work and take responsibilty instead of looking for handouts would be well spent money. Then again the marxist need multitudes sucking on the public purse to control the people. That's why they want to take away from those who have worked all their lives.

Personally I think if we are to raise new start we should cut all those being paid by the taxpayer by 15% and use that money. We would miss nothing in production.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 16 May 2019 1:06:06 PM
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Dear Hasbeen,

To the best of my knowledge there is no such law which forces you to receive tax-payer welfare.

Sadly there are laws that force people to pay [also] for welfare. I definitely believe that these laws ought to be relaxed to allow individuals (though not companies) to opt-out of paying taxes. I would never opt out myself because I think that having my money taken out in tax and given to those who need it more than me is a very positive outcome. I do believe that very few would opt out - more will in fact become proud to pay their taxes, including some that currently avoid to.

I consider this a charity and do not wish to condition it on anything except that the recipients, despite living frugally have no money of their own. This includes job-seeking. Let those who want more go out and seek jobs and let those who are willing to do with less sit peacefully at home rather than opt for crime - including crimes in the guise of a job. Due to the advent of "smart" machines there are too few real and productive jobs left and too many useless, if not even harmful, jobs around anyway.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 16 May 2019 1:24:13 PM
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Hi Foxy, the last person I worked with in Sydney, was a 59 year old Aussie fella. Lost his last full time job at aged 55, absolutely no support, what we would call a "loner", no family, no real friends, he had a good but poorly paid employment history up to aged 55, living week by week. After losing his permanent job at 55, first he was evicted from a $300/week flat he was renting, he had withdrawn his $40k in Supa using the hardship provisions over a couple of years, his money ran out and Newstart of $310/week just wasn't going to cut it for the rent. Lost most of his personal possessions to some bloke and sheila who put him up for a few weeks, then put him out. He ended up in a $160/week one roomer (a shocker). The bloke had the early stages of dementia, undernourished, grubby, being sent to some so called "employment provider", wow, even I could see he was unemployable. But that how the system had him.

In the end, with help from others, he got onto a diso pension, and into a government beddie at $70/week, a government flat about the size of a single car garage, or smaller, no bedroom, all in one, with home help a couple of times a week. That all took 18 months. A sad way to end ones life me thinks.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 16 May 2019 1:25:08 PM
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Paul once, not now, even the Liberals thought we needed a welfare for such as you tell us about
Right now even in the very small village I live in the lowest rent is $350 a week
Even a caravan can cost not much less
To claim welfare is only for bludgers is insane
Labor will make it better
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 16 May 2019 3:50:10 PM
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18-21 no job = National Service.
21- + no job & single = National Service, married = Newstart
Local Councils must be charged with creating at least some short-medium term minimum wage employment/training.

State departments must also contribute to offer employment for at least on a Crown employee basis for up to three year terms.
Posted by individual, Friday, 17 May 2019 10:16:36 AM
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I think you must be losing the plot individual, councils cost more than enough already.

My rates are already 2 months pension, 17% of a single pensioners income. Councils already have a cast of millions swanning around the huge edifices they build to do not very much but give the useless somewhere to spend the day comfortably. I can see no reason at all to add even more useless employees to hold the earth down by leaning on a shovel somewhere.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 17 May 2019 11:51:52 AM
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Hasbeen I AGREE! qwe would be better without councilors
Put an administrator in every single one
Rates are insane
My sleepy unserved Village is paying more than some on the central coast [highly populated]
Posted by Belly, Friday, 17 May 2019 3:35:31 PM
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Hasbeen,
Who's talking about extra costs ? Councils have more than enoght, all they have to do is waste less !
Posted by individual, Friday, 17 May 2019 4:57:02 PM
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Foxy,

" As yet we don't even have
an agreed national definition of poverty"

So how do we know who is in poverty?

As I said earlier; Australians, as a whole, don't know what poverty is.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 17 May 2019 4:57:10 PM
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Indy mate, now I'm sure you've lost it. Councils waste less, a wonderful dream, but to believe it could happen requires a total loss of reality.

Same here Belly, for my almost $4000 a year I get 3 hours of library truck during working hours, so of no use to anyone earning a living, & a garbage collection we voted not to have, as it allowed them to close our tip & charge more rates.

Yes Is Mise I wonder what some of my old New Guinea tribesmen mates living in villages would think of our poverty. Most of them were lucky to earn much more that 50 kina, [about A$22] a year, & had to pay a 14 kina head tax out of it.

When you anchored off a village, [or up to a few kilometres away], they would be out in their canoes trying to sell you drinking nuts, fish, chickens or carvings. What they wanted was trade tobacco & fishing gear. What they needed was money to pay their head tax.

If we have poverty here it is mostly caused by the ridiculous costs & charges of local & state government, & the equally ridiculous cost of electricity today, caused by fool federal government laws pushing alternate power on us.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 17 May 2019 5:41:50 PM
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Every time Shorten speaks I'm reminded of my old uncle who loved to recite Banjo Patterson whenever he was pissed. It's worn me thin already and three years of it in prospect is making me contemplate touring the world with a backpack.

Oh well, roll on tomorrow I suppose.
Posted by Luciferase, Friday, 17 May 2019 8:25:01 PM
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...Paterson
Posted by Luciferase, Friday, 17 May 2019 8:26:57 PM
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Luciferase, when you are used to supporting a bunch of reprobates who have been looking after themselves and their mates for almost six years, it will be difficult to adjust to a PM and a party that is out for the betterment of all Australians, not just the big end of town. No more doggy deals and handouts to cronies, no more concentrating on ones own position and power, no more of that. No you are going to be very disappointed when Labor wins tomorrow.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 17 May 2019 10:00:04 PM
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Would that Paul be like when as a union boss he negotiated a penalty rate reduction for his union members, in exchange for a cash injection into the union head office?
Posted by Hasbeen, Saturday, 18 May 2019 12:55:45 AM
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Hasbeen in union negotiations [enterprise bargaining] everything is on the table
Sitting around that table are workers as well as union representatives
I have taken part in tomorrow's deals
That is an annualized salary no penalty rates
But very big increase in pay/time off on pay, the future is such mutually benefit agreements
If you try hard enough you will find some way to blacken me for such a deal
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 18 May 2019 5:15:31 AM
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If you examine how poverty is measured in Australia (and most other western nations for that matter) you'll see that we will never solve it and nor are we meant to.

The poverty line is designed to move only slightly and to always have around 10-20% of the population sitting below it.

We must remember that there are many people who have jobs (high paying jobs), careers and reputations all based on there being poor people who they can purport to fret over. Fret without actually doing anything useful.

Nowhere will you here that this generations poor are actually 30% better off in real terms that the previous generation. Why won't you hear that? Because (see above) there are many people who have jobs (high paying jobs), careers and reputations all based on there being poor people. Ditto the 'close the gap' industry.

How to solve poverty? Well stop basing it on a comparison between rich and poor. Instead set minimum standards and work to get all people there.

For example, set the standard that you are poor if you can't find a roof to live under somewhere (ie not necessarily in your preferred neighbourhood), can't afford to buy 8000 kj in food per day and can't clothe yourself. If your funds provide that, then you're not poor. On that basis, poverty will be resolved in a decade and then all those in the poverty industry can go and find some useful work.

But poverty is described differently. I've been working in a new locale recently and lunching in a park frequented by the so-called homeless.They congregate there for friendship, I guess, and assail all passers-by for some money. When not doing that, they are sharing selfies on their mobiles or texting other 'homeless'. If you can afford a mobile phone, you aren't poor. But the social justice warriors won't agree with that.
Posted by mhaze, Saturday, 18 May 2019 9:55:40 AM
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Paul,

Firstly I believe that politicians and parties are in politics to improve the nation. Accusations fly each way, some with substance and others without, about corruption. How far do you want to go back?

I have been a Labor supporter all my life, until Shorten arrived on the scene. He's a hypocritical, inconsistent chameleon harnessing the politics of jealousy and envy, as I have railed against elsewhere on OLO. You're another of his useful idiots unwilling to get into policy detail because partisan rhetoric and buzzwords cut through sufficiently to meet your objectives.

The LNP has failed to analytically exploit the fairness claims of Labor's positions on NG, CGT, dividend imputation and energy policy, focusing on political responses. Labor has successfully characterized as gifts, loopholes and rorts things that require deeper analysis than the LNP brought to bear.

National debt is substantially baked in through Labor initiatives that have been maintained while efforts to reduce debt have been opposed by them. Let's be sure to have the facts right on debt level, too http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-18/fact-check-did-the-govt-triple-the-deficit/7407538

The investment climate in Australia will be detrimentally changed after today, if the polls have got it right, so I painfully await Shorten waxing lyrical in his acceptance.
Posted by Luciferase, Saturday, 18 May 2019 1:12:22 PM
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Talking to one of our ex Councillors the other day, I brought up the subject of a recent fiasco that cost reportedly, 10 million more than it should have cost had it been completed to its original design which it wasn't.
I asked how many unemployed around the district could have been employed with that money.
"that's water under the bridge" she said "we need to move on".
Ah well, that's alright then eh ? Never mind that the guilty CEO, Chief Engineer etc all received very handsome departing money as a reward for their stuff-ups !
LGQ instead ensures that Councils are toeing the line no matter what !
I hope the new federal outfit does a bit of spring cleaning around the joint !
Posted by individual, Monday, 20 May 2019 8:50:28 AM
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If Govts see it warranted to offer welfare to the established then I see no reason why they can't give the victims of their policies a head-up also !
Posted by individual, Thursday, 23 May 2019 8:57:32 AM
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