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The Forum > General Discussion > Western Civilisation - the beginning

Western Civilisation - the beginning

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cont'd ...

I noticed that you refer to Herodotus. According to
Langer's ""Western Civilisation: Paleolithic Man to
the Emergence of European Powers," Herodotus is the
most attractive ancient historian.

Brought up on the epic story of the struggle between
East and West, he determined to study its origins, and
traveled widely in Anatolia, Egypt, Mesopotamia, Scythia,
and Greece, everywhere observing, measuring, interviewing,
until finally he settled in Athens among the Periclean
intellectuals and set about, as he himself says,
" the publications of his researches, that neither men's
deeds may fade with time, nor the great and marvelous
works shown forth by both the Greeks and the barbarians
remain unsung.both other matters and what they fought
each other for."

This manifesto, we're told strikes an entirely new note in
historiography.

Herodotus regards his work as research. He is fair to both
sides, and he consciously looks for causation.

Focusing on the Persian Empire, he grouped systemmetrically
around it the history of Asia, Egypt, and Europe, the
Greek known world. What is attractive about him we're told
is his respect for other people's ways, his interest in their
cultures, and his delight in a good story.

He's been called the father of history. We're told that
modern research confirms his accuracy more every year.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 17 April 2019 6:41:43 PM
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Dear mhaze,

Enough with your opinion.

Mate you just can't keep doing this. I provided you quotes and references for the points I made but all you do is flounce on in here and throw out personal assertions without ever backing it up. You really need to stop having a go at Wikipedia. The quotes I have given you from it are all referenced unlike a single assertion you have delivered.

You said; “Slaves in Athens were in relatively small numbers per household and were treated like members of the family.”

No they were not. 80,000 slaves in a city of 250,000 is not relatively small anything and except for a few they most certainly not treated like members of the family. You could say that about the African slave in the deep south where some were nursemaids to their owners children. But like Athens most of the slave labour was in producing crops. Another large chunk was in the mines;

“Slave labour was prevalent in mines and quarries, which had large slave populations, often leased out by rich private citizens. The strategos Nicias leased a thousand slaves to the silver mines of Laurium in Attica; Hipponicos, 600; and Philomidès, 300. Xenophon[43]indicates that they received one obolus per slave per day, amounting to 60 drachmas per year. This was one of the most prized investments for Athenians. The number of slaves working in the Laurium mines or in the mills processing ore has been estimated at 30,000.[44] Xenophon suggested that the city buy a large number of slaves, up to three state slaves per citizen, so that their leasing would assure the upkeep of all the citizens.”
Wikipedia

The Persians on the other hand were far less inclined to indulge in widespread slavery like the Athenians. They also had extensive laws regarding their treatment.

Cont..
Posted by SteeleRedux, Wednesday, 17 April 2019 10:08:12 PM
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Cont..

Quote

“Sassanid Laws of Slavery
Some of the laws governing the ownership and treatment of slaves can be found in the collection of laws of the Sassanid period called Matikan-e-Hazar Datastan.[13] Principles that can be inferred from the laws include:
1) The slaves were captured foreigners who were non-Zoroastrians.
2) The ownership of the slave belonged to the man.
3) The owner had to treat the slave humanely; violence toward the slave was forbidden. In particular beating a slave woman was a crime.
4) If a non-Zoroastrian slave, such as a Christian slave, converted to Zoroastrianism, he or she could pay his or her price and attain freedom.
5) If a slave together with his or her foreign master embraced Zoroastrianism, he or she could pay his slave price and become free.
To free a slave (irrespective of his or her faith) was considered a good deed.[14] Slaves had some rights including keeping gifts to them and at least three days of rest in the month.[15]The law also protected slaves, including: No one may inflict upon slaves a fatal punishment for a single crime... Not even the king himself may slay anyone on the account of one crime.[16]
End quote.
Wikipedia

On the face of it far more humane than the Greeks.

As it happens I have been reading dear old Herodotus . He is actually a bit of a riot. Certainly not someone I would be associating absolute historical fact with, but entertaining for sure.

Anyway I didn't see anything to support this claim by you;

“Prior to the first invasion, the peoples of Athens and Eretria were told, by the Persians, of their fate. The men would be executed. The women sold in the markets in Asia. The prettiest of the young girls would be placed in the various harems of the nobles in Susa. The prettiest young boys would be castrated and sold as eunuchs.”

However I could be wrong. How about you supply a page number for us.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Wednesday, 17 April 2019 10:08:42 PM
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Dear Foxy,

I do find it interesting to think that it was only a reluctance of the Persians to engage in widespread slavery and their freedom of religion that allowed the Jews in exile in Babylon to return to their holy land. Without that we may well have not seen the birth of Jesus nor the advent of Christianity.

From my initial appraisal I pretty confident if the Athenians had invaded Babylon first then it would have been a pretty dismal outcome for the Jewish people.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Wednesday, 17 April 2019 10:50:54 PM
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mhaze- Thanks for the history very informative.
Posted by Canem Malum, Thursday, 18 April 2019 6:48:23 AM
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Dear Steele,

Speculation abounds as to the
reasoning for Cyrus the Great release of the
Jews from Babylon.

One argument is that Cyrus was a follower of
Zoroaster - the monotheistic prophet.

Zoroastrianism played a dominant religious role
in Persia throughout its history - until the
Islamic conquest.

As such Cyrus would have felt a kindred spirit with
the monotheistic Jews. Another possibility is the
magnanimous respect he is ascribed to have for
the diverse beliefs and customs of the people within
his extended kingdom.

Jewish tradition as described in EZRA 1: 1-8 indicates
the Lord inspired King Cyrus of Persia to issue his
proclamation - this Babylonian document has been
interpreted as referring to the return to their homelands
of several displaced cultural groups - one of which
could have been the Jews.

According to many historical sources - Cyrus respected
local customs and religions in his empire. For whatever
reason he freed the Jews from captivity in Babylonia
and permitted them to rebuild their temple at Jerusalem
in Palestine.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 18 April 2019 11:01:13 AM
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