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The Forum > General Discussion > So Waleed is at it again, defending the un defendable

So Waleed is at it again, defending the un defendable

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So this guys slams the Pm for his comments about African gang violence in Melbourne, then he shoots himself in the foot by saying these people make up 0.1% of the population and only commit 1% of the crime.

Well while i'm only a butcher, even I can work out that that's a crime rate ten times their numbers.
Yet another 'own goal' from one of our deniers.
Posted by rehctub, Friday, 20 July 2018 7:13:24 AM
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I like the bloke, BUT he like so many waffles about racism while holding a view that feeds? racism! the gang exists, its crimes are real,defending them because they are a minority is? racist, it feeds the victims views they are not given the protection and care they should be, any criminal or crime group can be defended because of any number of bad events in their lives, crap! if these youths had been young white Australians no one would try to defend them
Posted by Belly, Friday, 20 July 2018 8:09:55 AM
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I manage very well without the benefit of this Muslim's 'wisdom', and I'm sure that even Malcolm Turnbull will manage too. It's heartening to at last hear our very reticent, uncommitted PM, speaking out against African gangs. He now has to assist the hapless government of Victoria to deal with the gangs once and for all.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 20 July 2018 10:24:44 AM
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I turn to another channel now when he comes on even though I think the program is needed. But, because it is not unbiased it has become just another leftist spanner in the wheels of society.
Has Waleed ever condemned islamic violence openly ? Is he condemning the african gangs ?
If he isn't then he is part of the problem & should be removed from public broadcasting.
As the old saying goes, bad things happen when good people do nothing.
Posted by individual, Friday, 20 July 2018 10:25:43 AM
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Hi there TTBN...

As unpalatable as it may sound, allow the police to 'take the gloves off' with these dull witted punks, just once, and see the difference it makes when they know the 'establishment' will actually 'bite's back'. Diplomacy; counselling; reasoning; and all the other superlatives, never seem to work when you're attempting to deal with some forms of resistive and violent behaviour, often they use the law itself to protect them from police being over zealous with them.

This ABC defender of African Rights, has no fundamental idea what it is he's talking about. He should remove himself from the comfort of his Studio, and spend a shift with police as they try to 'tip toe' around the sensibilities of these boof-heads. Perhaps then he might modify his thinking somewhat?
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 20 July 2018 11:00:48 AM
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Thanks for your comments.
Posted by Canem Malum, Friday, 20 July 2018 11:06:05 AM
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Yes o sung wu, when I was a kid in the great metropolis of Young NSW we had a sergeant & a couple of constables who loved grabbing a young thug playing up, or some one tending that way.

After administering a swift kick up the butt, they would then report the offender to their father, who in those more enlightened repeat the process, or pull out the dreaded razor strop.

Very soon those potential hoods were at the police boys club, playing basketball, or training with weights.

The same treatment was handed out to young drivers, or even push bike riders behaving dangerously, but they never bothered about 15 year olds driving into town or even to police boys, provided they drove sensibly. They knew those kids had been driving around orchards & farms in trucks & tractors from very young ages, & it was their only way into town. Parents did not provide taxi services for kids back then, but would let sensible kids take the car or ute.

God don't we need some sensible policing today.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 20 July 2018 12:09:27 PM
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G'day HASBEEN ol' mate...

You say; we need some sensible policing these days? We need some sensible politicians; Member's of the judiciary; School Teachers & Headmasters; University Lecturers, Tutors, Vice Chancellor's; in fact we need a host of 'sensible' people to help drag us all out of this mess we've got ourselves in? Moreover to find that well hidden plug hole, in order to 'drain the swamp' we hear so much about?

I dunno Mate things were so much more sensible, and clearer, when I was at Kapooka.
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 20 July 2018 1:36:28 PM
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Victorian police told "The Project" that people from
African backgrounds only represent a small portion of
offenders in our community. That Melbourne was not
suffering from "African gangs," and that there was
no crisis. That crime in Victoria has actually dropped
by 9 per cent in the last year.

To give us a better picture -
it has been pointed out that crime will be a
key part of the Liberals bid to win November's state
election - so whipping up fear in communities -
is a good tactic to
win votes.

The PM's talk makes perfect sense when viewed
from this perspective. He ignores that Australians have
been and still are responsible for the vast majority of
crimes in the state coming in at around 72 per cent.

I doubt that Waleed (or any of us) would condone criminal
behaviour - Sudanese (or any other) - however it's always
good to get the full facts before we make any judgements.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 20 July 2018 2:16:02 PM
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Hasbeen,

"they would then report the offender to their father, who in those more enlightened [times?] repeat the process, or pull out the dreaded razor strop."

Well there's the flaw in your thinking right there. You're assuming there's a father to take the little darlings home to. Around 35% of kids don't have a father at home. And of those that do, some unknown number don't have a father who gives a flying f@@k.

Its difficult to get statistics for Australia because, I assume, those who ought to care are worried that the statistics wouldn't tell the approved story. But if we are anything like the US, then a very high proportion of those who engage in anti-societal behaviour are raised without a father-figure in the household.
Posted by mhaze, Friday, 20 July 2018 2:17:47 PM
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Didn't take long for the apologists to make their first pointless quip.
The sad show we're forced to watch nowadays is due to the diminishing intelligence of the higher education egotists. An average village idiot had more sense in those days than today's professors.
Posted by individual, Friday, 20 July 2018 2:51:21 PM
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individual,

It's hard to continue a conversation with someone when
all they try to do is put people down instead of
addressing the issues at hand. Don't generalise,
exaggerate or be nasty - people simply stop listening
and many walk away.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 20 July 2018 3:36:59 PM
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Foxy,

You live in Melbourne, how about taking a night-time stroll in the affected areas, have a chat with the locals and give us a first-hand report.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 20 July 2018 5:34:30 PM
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Is Mise,

My husband and I -
go out to the theatre, movies, or our favourite
restaurants at night. And that hasn't changed for us.
We haven't had to curtail any of our activities
in our beautiful city of Melbourne.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 20 July 2018 6:10:43 PM
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Dear o sung wu,

I'm going to broach this subject in a measured manner because I personally know relatives of Damian Eyre, one of the victims of the Walsh street killings of two Victorian policemen in 1988.

A tit for tat killing spree including the Russel Street bombings had been going on for years. Victorian police had been stepping outside the bounds of 'professional policing' for many years and the animosity between them and some of the criminal families had dramatically escalated.

Indeed some of the killings by police during that period had bordered on extrajudicial.

It took a commissioner in Glare to put an end to the escalating violence.

Thinking that police stepping outside their rules of proper procedure will fix a problem is a luxury for the general populace. But it is one that can end police lives.

A good part of accepting any law by the criminal classes is knowing that it is not arbitrary, not up to the whim of a particular officer.

Professional policing not only is proper but it protects those tasked with protecting our communities.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 20 July 2018 6:24:54 PM
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Dear Is Mise,

I am often in Melbourne and am more than happy to walk its streets and visit its restaurants without apprehension, including some of the less salubrious venues,

If you want to pick the locale and establishment I will endeavour to visit and report back
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 20 July 2018 6:28:24 PM
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Foxy, you are missing the point of my thread.

Aleed himself said that while these people only make up 0.9% of the population, their crime rate is ten times that, or 1% of the crimes.

Only going off what he actually said.

Now imagine how bad crime would be if the other 99.1% committed crimes at the same rate per capita.

Please don't bury your head in the sand, many of these people at best arrived uninvited, at worst, illegally. In my view a single serious crime and you're out.
Posted by rehctub, Friday, 20 July 2018 8:36:05 PM
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//Foxy, you are missing the point of my thread.//

Is she, though?

I can't claim to be one of these people who 'don't see colour', but I suspect that when I'm on the receiving end of a stabbing the last thing I'm going to be worried about is the race of the person stabbing me. When you've got three inches of steel in your abdomen where it really ought not to be, I expect that you'd have more pressing concerns on your mind.

At the statistics are unequivocal: it's vastly more likely that it's going to be some iced-up bogan that leaves you bleeding in the street than a Sudanese gang member. Therefore, to the rational man, you should have more fear of the iced-up bogans. I certainly do. Those f&^kers are everywhere, and they'll just stab you for no reason.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 20 July 2018 9:00:18 PM
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Good evening to you STEELEREDUX...

That's the sort of commentary that should be expressed to all the new recruits at the Goulburn Police Academy. Albeit somewhat idealistic I would've thought.

STEELE I've got no argument with you, or what you've written, or even the general tenor of what you've said. In an ideal world it would apply. In fact since the inception of structured policing in Great Britain, British police were loath to bare F/A's under any circumstances, that is until the advent of terrorism.

I don't know if you've seen a movie starring Paul NEWMAN, called 'Cool Hand Luke'. It's about a petty crook who damages council parking metres, and he gets 12 months gaol in a Labour Camp in a Southern State of the US. The convicts are worked hard in the heat of the South, our hero Paul NEWMAN, starts to rebel from the harsh discipline. Eventually he gets into real trouble so the Warden decides to make an example of him, telling his guards and other convicts '...what we have here, is a failure to communicate...'? Whereby he sets about giving our hero a real flogging.

That's often the real problem STEELE. If we or they, "fail to communicate" we've got enormous problems.

I've been told by my former colleagues, the only form of communication they actually understand is aggression and violence. Sudan is a nation where violence is understood and expected. While negotiation, remonstration, and warnings, are all virtually ignored, and a sign of weakness.

Fortunately I've never had to interact with black Africans. My area of 'expertise' if you like, is the Lebanese community. I think the term applies to the entire world, together with all the worlds problems. "...What we have here, is a failure to communicate...".

VICPOL are having enormous problems with them at this time. What do you suggest they do, other than getting physical with them?
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 20 July 2018 9:50:29 PM
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African gangs in Victoria?

We've been here before.

This is from 2007 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH684WWgi-8

Funny how these allegations and get-tough policies seem to come up in time for elections.

Whatever happened to the Chinese Triads that were tearing Sydney apart?
I guess they just updated the script.
Posted by rache, Friday, 20 July 2018 10:06:52 PM
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Toni,

"...and they'll just stab you for no reason"

as apparently happened to a young man in the Sydney suburb of Balmain.

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/crime/police-hunt-for-a-man-and-woman-after-teen-stabbed-in-sydneys-inner-west/news-story/7c02780a6752815e5b9214ed3fba8948
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 20 July 2018 10:24:20 PM
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//The man and the woman fled up Palmer St.

The male has been described as being white, late 20s to early 30s in age, 185cm tall and with ginger hair...//

Yeah, see, it's the gingers you've got to watch out for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gfRtgMWUgs

We should have a 'one strike and you're out' policy for those disgusting freaks: any ginger convicted of a single serious crime, and we stick 'em on a boat back to where they come from.

While we're at it, we should round up all the dwarves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrjStSqu_w4

And of course, throw the Jew down the well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb3IMTJjzfo

Then our country can be free!
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 20 July 2018 10:46:35 PM
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Oh dear, it is the nature of their crimes plus their frequency that
together makes them significant.
Posted by Bazz, Friday, 20 July 2018 11:11:03 PM
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//it is the nature of their crimes plus their frequency that
together makes them significant.//

It sure is:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/sean-king-gordon-cramp-colin-farrow-kelvin-willmott-australias-most-violent-ice-killers/news-story/eb5cff8a29dd3809522256b19969f4e7
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 20 July 2018 11:28:23 PM
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Of course there are local criminal elements in every society ! What the issue is here is the imported criminal elements who were housed, fed & supported in many ways by the taxpayers of Australia & yet, they see it fit to form gangs to terrorise the very society which gave them them a leg up in life, a privilege which many australian born youths don't get to enjoy, yet they don't form gangs.
Do-gooders must take a serious look at themselves. Warm'n fozzy words will foster the problem not reduce it. In fact, do-gooders are actually part of the problem & are in fact saboteurs.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 21 July 2018 8:06:52 AM
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//What the issue is here is the imported criminal elements who were housed, fed & supported in many ways by the taxpayers of Australia & yet, they see it fit to form gangs to terrorise the very society which gave them them a leg up in life//

Yep, a lot of those iced-up bogans are dole-bludging housos. Makes ya sick, don't it?
Posted by Toni Lavis, Saturday, 21 July 2018 8:19:31 AM
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Having been through Europe, in particular Western Europe, and seeing first hand the results of mass immigration from Sub-Saharan Africa, Waleeds comments don't fill me with peace and calm.

Waleed is trying to maintain the current dominant values system in the West, and violence from African gangs which is observed creates a problem for this values system. Note that both Waleed and the LNP have the same values system, where they differ is how to maintain it.
Posted by Assembly Line Human, Saturday, 21 July 2018 2:06:07 PM
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SR, Rache,

The point about these African gangs is not only that their crime rate is vastly out of proportion to their population, it is also the violent nature of the attacks on people sometimes in broad daylight, and that the police and judiciary essentially give them a slap on the wrist and put them back on the streets again and again.

The first duty of any government is to protect the people. Andrews and his minions have failed in this duty miserably as petty crimes have decreased but violent ones.

The next elections are nearly a year away and so Andrews and his corrupt cohorts still have time to clear up the mess, but if they don't it will be much harder for them to stay in power.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Saturday, 21 July 2018 2:43:18 PM
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Predicting elections is a risky business at the
best of times. The US is a great example.
Daniel Andrews is doing an excellent job in
Victoria - building is going on around us and
the state is progressing greatly. The crime
rate has dropped - and the crime that does exist
over 70 per cent is done by locals (not Africans).
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 21 July 2018 3:49:50 PM
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Hi there FOXY...

What you've inferred in your last Post, concerning what a good Job the Andrew's Government is doing about crime in Victoria; is diametrically opposite to what an Inspector mate I know down there says? The African Gangs have become endemic to a point where the coppers are beside themselves, as to what should be done, especially now there's a new, softly softy approach to community policing, is in train?

Personally I've never had any truck with Stats. The can be construed or interpreted in anyway the reader may choose. In 1983 we got a new Asst. Commissioner I/C of the Crime Department. And like all new people he wanted to be across what was happening within his baliwyck. His boss, the Deputy. Commissioner (Admin) suggested he reads all the crime figures and statistics.

He declined; preferring instead to do an eight hour 'ride along' around the many troubled areas within his command. On one occasion, he chose our car, for a three hour stint of his RA. He sat in the back, and hardly said a word, just observed, earning the not so pleasant epithet 'J.A.F.O' ('Just Another F.ck.ng Observer'). As we worked the; Yagoona, Punchbowl, and Bankstown zones.

He admitted to us after, what he actually experienced in his the RA; and what was contained in the Crime reports, were entirely different altogether. Being the 'Johnny on the spot' was far different than just reading about it. Much like your Mr Andrews's Stats and Crime reports, I'd imagine.

While it's true Stats are generally accurate. What they fail to show is the 'heat' of an exchange; the hatred, the tension, the explosives nature of a potentially violent conflict. Second guessing the availability of weapons...etc, etc, and etc! The only use a written report will have here - is a means of fuel, and a wick, to ignite fires!

They mean 'diddly squat' usually and they're only raised for the annual consumption, of the Victorian State Parliament! Certainly not to assuage the concerns of the many jittery citizens, who happen to reside in the area.
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 21 July 2018 5:22:20 PM
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Good Evening O Sung Wu,

I can only go by what's in our local newspapers,
in the mainstream media, and from our own experiences.
My husband go out regularly on a week-end. We've
not encountered any problems - either in the city
centre, or elsewhere.

As far as we're aware Melbourne, at least appears
to be a safe city.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 21 July 2018 6:26:07 PM
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Dear o sung wu,

I live in country Victoria and our postcode has dropped 40% in residential burglary incidents over the past year. Extra police numbers plus a strong focus on things like Neighbourhood Watch have certainly made a difference. There just seems to be a real determination from this government to fix the issue. Now perhaps they recognise that they have traditionally been deemed weak in this area so are going all, whatever but it seems to be working.

Unless there was a way to fudge these figures that I don't know about I'm putting a tick in our Premier's column for it.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Saturday, 21 July 2018 6:51:28 PM
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Shadow Minister said- "The next elections are nearly a year away"

Answer- The next Victorian state election will be held on Saturday 24 November 2018 to elect the 59th Parliament of Victoria, including all 88 seats in the Legislative Assembly and all 40 in the Legislative Council.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_state_election,_2018
Posted by Canem Malum, Saturday, 21 July 2018 7:34:05 PM
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Unless there was a way to fudge these figures
Steele redux,
These figures fell off the back of that herd of flying pink elephants.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 21 July 2018 9:45:13 PM
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Hi FOXY & STEELEREDUX...

OK, you'd both know more about it then I do. My mate, a D/Insp with VICPOL says differently! I've known this bloke since CHOGAM, 1983, where coppers were brought from most States to bolster VICPOL's numbers, and I've always found him to be a very adroit, very pragmatic copper, who calls a spade a spade. Who's right, I can only hope, it's you and FOXY, for the community's sake?
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 21 July 2018 9:49:22 PM
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I think if you visit the prisons you would easily spot percentage wise who is responsible for most crime. Oh that's right it the colonist who are responsible for these immigrants and locals committing crime because we are to horrible to them.
Posted by runner, Saturday, 21 July 2018 11:04:56 PM
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Interesting the poor girl stabbed to death in Melbourne last night was caught up in fights between African groups/ Oh sorry Foxy and Waleed don't see a problem.
Posted by runner, Saturday, 21 July 2018 11:15:51 PM
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In PC terminology, Waleed would be a 'racial civil-unrest enabler'.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 21 July 2018 11:40:35 PM
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It tends to be the cheaper suburbs and those near the major universities that have the greatest impact from immigration. It's interesting to see reverse gentrification in these suburbs as the immigrants push the locals out. The overfilled rubbish bins, the crows, the rubbish blowing in the breeze, the parking, the noise at all hours, the dented cars all down the street, the chicken test driving, the disrespect for other people, the lying, the continuous wilfull damage to property. I even see it on TV where one local person just wants to live in peace and the immigrants believe that because the person doesn't want to interact with them they are racist and they have "a right" to annoy them. Standard animal dominance posturing. Eventually the white people move out before they end up in gaol- the Real Estate agents and owners can't do much- diversity laws, split ownership of property over different ethnic groups- creates a mess. I'm not sure that the owners of these properties will be able to get a good price when they sell or good tenants. The ethnic owners will be able to buy up the properties cheap and build high density apartments. If we are not the dominant ones Australia doesn't have much hope. Other cultures do not necessarily care about playing "fair". I guess it creates some interesting effects in the property market.
Posted by Canem Malum, Saturday, 21 July 2018 11:44:36 PM
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Foxy,

I am not predicting the outcome of the elections, just pointing out that the African gang violence is becoming an issue that is a negative for Labor that is not going to disappear with a few platitudes from that weasel Andrews.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/victoria/chaotic-scene-teenage-woman-dead-after-dispute-at-cbd-short-stay-20180721-p4zstv.html

With headlines like these appearing nearly every week, it does not matter how confident people like SR are to go out, there are still millions of others that while going out will be just that little bit more careful.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Sunday, 22 July 2018 8:16:53 AM
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Foxy,

"I can only go by what's in our local newspapers,
in the mainstream media, and from our own experiences.
My husband go out regularly on a week-end. We've
not encountered any problems - either in the city
centre, or elsewhere"

No, you can do as I suggested, go to one of the affected areas, alone, after dark, and then give us your impressions.

Steele,

I don't know Melbourne well, so just read the papers and then venture into one of the alleged trouble spots and let us know the truth of the matter.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 22 July 2018 9:30:23 AM
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Steele Redux said;
I live in country Victoria and our postcode has dropped 40% in residential burglary

Probably not surprising because police in country areas would quickly
get to know who were the majority offenders and would either by arrest
or warning them would stop the offending or move the offending to
another police district.
Posted by Bazz, Sunday, 22 July 2018 10:38:10 AM
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Gentlemen,

As I stated earlier - I can only go by my own experiences.
What are yours regarding "African gangs?"
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 22 July 2018 10:41:52 AM
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FOXY...

To answer your question FOXY; my own experiences with African Gangs are nil. However despite what my mate in VICPOL has averred, there are plenty of them about Metro Melbourne. Most have no respect for the police or the law per se.

It's always convenient to deny the existence of things FOXY, that would ordinarily frighten us. I have no doubt that Gangs made up of black Africans, do pervade some areas of metro Melbourne. Where precisely I wouldn't know. I wonder how long it will take, for the inhabitants of the City of Melbourne to witness the ghastly effects of the 'Soweto Necktie'. Maybe then the Andrews Government may acknowledge the existence of these black African gangs!

Sometime FOXY (I say with respect), your intransigence with some matters really does amaze me at times? You're denial of the existence of these African Gangs, especially when the Sydney media is awash with it, is strange to say the least? You're intelligent, an avid reader, come researcher, yet for some reason, in your mind they don't exist? Is it a case I wonder, if they don't prevail, then I've got nothing really to worry about?
Posted by o sung wu, Sunday, 22 July 2018 12:27:16 PM
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The main problem in Victoria is the political police, whose management even denies that there are African gangs. You know, the same police who send bills to Right wing speakers to hold back the barbarian hordes of Leftists attacking people who wish to hear the speakers. This sort of thing doesn't happen in other Australian cities. It's a protection racket run by the Labor governnent and upper echelons of the police.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 22 July 2018 12:41:28 PM
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O Sung Wu and Ttbn - Thanks for saying what I am struggling with. It's not just the African gangs though. The Muslims, Indians are getting braver all the time. None of them respect the police or the workplace and they are always aggressively looking out for "group territory". They don't believe in sharing. Even the "good ones" betray you in favour of "their brothers" in the end. They understand that their loyalty is to their own- even if we don't- we can't trust our own people to be loyal to us- especially our universities. It's a mess. If we don't protect our territory we will lose it, because there are plenty that want to take it from us. Maybe we do need nuclear power.
Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 22 July 2018 1:28:46 PM
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Foxy,

What is your experience with crocodiles? Zero I guess, but I bet that you will avoid swimming in most rivers in the NT.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Sunday, 22 July 2018 1:30:48 PM
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Foxy,

Then broaden your experience, as I said, you live in Melbourne, how about taking a night-time stroll in the affected areas, have a chat with the locals and give us a first-hand report
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 22 July 2018 1:31:26 PM
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Is Mise,

Good suggestion. But people like Mother Russian never venture far from their own dunghills. If they did, they wouldn't spout such twaddle because they know they wouldn't get away with it. They stick to their own mutual admiration societies and 'safe places'. Reality is not what they are comfortable with.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 22 July 2018 2:28:24 PM
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Gentlemen,

I am rather wary - when I learn that there are leaflets
being handed out by the Victorian Liberals warning people
about "gangs hunting in packs." This is a sign that the
coming state elections will be particularly nasty and I
suspect will not go in their favour. People are not stupid.
And these sort of tactics no longer work. Voters are turned
off by them. Especially when the claims of a gang crisis
is at odds with the public position of Victorian police.
Chief Police Commissioner Graham Ashton saying it was
all "nonsense." Perhaps he doesn't know what he's talking
about or perhaps he's corrupt, or perhaps he pro-the Sudanese
or maybe he's anti-Liberal (or their tactics) or
just maybe he's telling
the truth?
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 22 July 2018 3:29:51 PM
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Hey everyone,
I just watched a video with some clips of Laura Southern while she's here in Australia.
I have to say it is the best, most reasonable and well crafted arguments against multiculturalism that I've ever heard; and as Aussies, it truly does deserve your attention.
This is our future, I hope you all take the time to watch this video and ponder the implications.
http://youtu.be/eW1l5eKBP8s
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 22 July 2018 7:29:11 PM
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Here's more on the video,

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/undercover-video-in-melbourne-backfires-for-rightwing-provocateur/news-story/2f9dc7d8c68360dd4f1aadef3d1f1054
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 22 July 2018 7:53:38 PM
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didn't Lauren make that australian blonde look like a dimwit.
Posted by individual, Sunday, 22 July 2018 8:49:36 PM
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Lauren was the blonde.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 22 July 2018 11:08:26 PM
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Hi Foxy,
I watched the video in the article you linked and think Laura earned the criticism given in your article fair and square.
It wasn't untrue, I think she was a little bit provocative; and personally I don't support that kind of attention-seeking journalism, just so you know.
I personally prefer 'just the facts' and journalistic integrity.

But I do think she did really well in the TV interviews I saw in that video I posted.
I think she laid out the arguments and made her case on merit, as fairly and as reasonably as one could on such a topic, and she did herself and her argument credit.

I'm also glad your article referred to her as right-wing and not far-right as some other articles have.
She did not advocate any violence towards those who disagreed with her views that I'm aware of.
She did ask if others would advocate violence against her however, but I think this was just a silly harmless stunt.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 22 July 2018 11:45:31 PM
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Multiculturalism a success in Australia ? Anyone non-white despises whites & stupid whites think that is a success. Looks like they deserve being overrun.
Posted by individual, Monday, 23 July 2018 6:51:30 AM
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Dear AC,

I can see that I was wrong about you.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 23 July 2018 10:12:22 AM
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Multiculturalism is a success in Australia and most of the races that have come here have integrated well; the early Negro immigrants disappeared into the general population to such an extent that few of their descendants realize their racial inheritance.
The post WWII migrants integrated well (Hi Foxy!) now all that we need to do is integrate the followers of Islam.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 23 July 2018 10:19:40 AM
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Multiculturalism is not a success anywhere, let alone in Australia. Immigrants are deliberately encouraged to 'celebrate' their mutiple cultures, not to assimilate. How bone-headed can people who yap about multiculturalism being 'successful' be; unless they are saying that the deliberate assault on the West is a good thing!
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 23 July 2018 11:05:09 AM
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Good Morning Is Mise,

The Australian Government has defined "Multiculturalism"
as involving living together with an awareness of
cultural diversity." The official Government policies
have reflected these social developments moving from
"assimilation" to "integration."

However, as we can see the concept of multiculturalism
continues to have different meanings for different people.
Hidden anti-migrant prejudices may not be voice in public
until they are highlighted by some well-publicized event
such as Pauline Hanson's speeches in Parliament.

Some Australians still feel most comfortable with a
singular national identity and an assimilationist polcy.
Even though more than 42 per cent of people were born
outside Australia or have a parent born outside Australia
and many speak a language other than English at home.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 23 July 2018 11:22:08 AM
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Source: Australian Bureau of Statistics (2016 census)[35]
Place of birth Estimated resident population
Australia 15,615,531
England England[b] 907,570
New Zealand New Zealand 518,466
Mainland China Mainland China 509,555
India India 455,389
Philippines Philippines 236,400
Vietnam Vietnam 219,355
Italy Italy 174,042
South Africa South Africa 162,449
Malaysia Malaysia 138,364
Scotland Scotland[b] 119,417
Sri Lanka Sri Lanka 109,849
Germany Germany 102,595
South Korea South Korea 98,776
Greece Greece 93,743
Hong Kong Hong Kong 86,886
United States United States 86,125
Lebanon Lebanon 78,653
Republic of Ireland Ireland 74,888
Indonesia Indonesia 73,213
Netherlands Netherlands 70,172
Iraq Iraq 67,352
Thailand Thailand 66,229
Pakistan Pakistan 61,913
Fiji Fiji 61,469
Iran Iran 58,112
Singapore Singapore 54,939
Nepal Nepal 54,754
Posted by Canem Malum, Monday, 23 July 2018 11:48:37 AM
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It's impressive to see Lauren Southern discussing issues with people apparently ten years or more her senior.
Posted by Canem Malum, Monday, 23 July 2018 12:03:19 PM
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What's more impressive is their replies to her
questions.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 23 July 2018 12:10:38 PM
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Foxy,

"Some Australians still feel most comfortable with a
singular national identity and an assimilationist policy.
Even though more than 42 per cent of people were born
outside Australia or have a parent born outside Australia
and many speak a language other than English at home"

We often speak Hindi so that I can keep up to speed and when my older children visit I practice my Irish with them, they're much more fluent speakers than I am, but I can beat them at reading as I've studied early Irish, which like Early English to modern is almost a different language.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 23 July 2018 12:16:01 PM
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Dear o sung wu,

Just to be clear, I was addressing this comment from you;

“What you've inferred in your last Post, concerning what a good Job the Andrew's Government is doing about crime in Victoria; is diametrically opposite to what an Inspector mate I know down there says? The African Gangs have become endemic to a point where the coppers are beside themselves, as to what should be done, especially now there's a new, softly softy approach to community policing, is in train?”

Which in turn had been in response to Foxy saying;

“Daniel Andrews is doing an excellent job in
Victoria - building is going on around us and
the state is progressing greatly. The crime
rate has dropped - and the crime that does exist
over 70 per cent is done by locals (not Africans).”

Your inspector mate was speaking about the issue of Sudanese crime which is an area of concern though it certainly seems to be overblown by out-of-staters for whatever reason. I feel you, without justification have conflated that to the regular crime figures. Both Foxy and I live in Victoria, we are seeing the results of a concerted focus on crime and we are giving credit where it is due. In my community there has been a dramatic improvement and I will continue to congratulate both the government and the police for their efforts.

So we are not saying anything that is “diametrically opposite to what an Inspector mate I know down there says” at all and with due respect, in this instance we possibly do know more about it that yourself.

Just to finish we have Sudanese kids at our club and they are great. The local fastfood outlet near where I am working at the moment has about a fifth of their staff being Sudanese. I think here in Victoria we interact with those of the Sudanese community almost every day so they aren't the threatening unknown that you Northeners think they are.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Monday, 23 July 2018 12:19:25 PM
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funny how regressives ignore mass child abuse in Indigeneous communities, out of control crime by Sudanese crime and yet are as loud a possible about the gw fallacy. Yep they love fake news, fake science, fake courses, fake compassion and yet remain in denial about reality. Anything that does not fit their failed and false narratives and in fact contradicts them is denied. Foxy along with the abc prove this on most topics.
Posted by runner, Monday, 23 July 2018 12:58:24 PM
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regressives ignore mass child abuse in Indigeneous communities,
Steele redux,

I suppose that abuse is all our fault ? The unstained characters of the indigenous must surely rely on outsiders to abuse their children.
Posted by individual, Monday, 23 July 2018 2:04:32 PM
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Is Mise,

You can speak Hindi? That's wonderful.
And, you can read Early Irish? Even more amazing.
I can fully understand the problems involved with
early languages. I had to study the heroic poem
"Beowulf" for English Lit. at uni. Our lecturer
gave us copies of it in Old English. It wasn't
easy, as I recall.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 23 July 2018 6:44:10 PM
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Hi Foxy,
I'm no angel, I have character flaws and make mistakes the same as anyone else.

But I do honestly try to look at all the pro's and con's of an argument and weigh it up on its own merits, based on the knowledge I have.
Should more facts come to light that change the way I view an issue, I always reserve the right to change my opinion.

But also I'm different to you in that I believe it's ok to stir, be blunt, and make fun of someone (within reason) to nudge them in a direction that might make them think about things differently.

Like BDS might be considered a non-violent form of protest.
Humility may be a non-violent form of correction.

Similar to when you're a kid and you trip over and your parents say
"Watch where you're going you idiot", and you learn to pay more attention.

I don't really like doing it, and I wish I could win my arguments more with wit.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 24 July 2018 9:22:20 AM
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London has the same problem:

"London’s crime wave continues — and there is much we can learn from it and the problems police are facing in Britain. Of course all Western police forces are distracted by the need to prevent terror crimes, but too many of London’s police are desk-bound and process-driven while their bosses fear a civil libertarian backlash if they crack down on ethnic-based crime. As in Australia, England’s judges and magistrates are reluctant to deliver custodial sentences, even for repeat offenders.............

So far this year there have been 1500 stabbings and about 50 stabbing deaths. I was told by police that most of the shootings and stabbings in London are “black-on-black”, and are gang and drug-related. Most gang members are aged 10 to 27. Gang leaders are usually sophisticated criminals who exploit the younger members to control local areas, mainly to traffic drugs. Sub-teens can be used for violent attacks and are unlikely to be punished.

A just-released year-long London South Bank University study focused on a Waltham Forest gang calling itself the Mali Boys. A 40-strong gang, its older members are drawn from the ­Somali community, while younger members include boys and girls from other backgrounds. The study notes: “The Mali Boys are heavily involved in drug supply and have a street reputation as a violent and feared group across the borough.”
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 24 July 2018 9:44:29 AM
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Latest terrorism attack with knife in Canada. Suspect born in Iran. Nothing to see heh , Waleed ,abc, Foxy? I mean anyone pointing out facts is racist. Mental health?
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 24 July 2018 9:46:42 AM
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I can’t comment on the veracity of any claims regarding African youth crime because I’m a whole continent away from it, apart from when I was living in Darwin and we had a large problem with gangs of African boys fighting with gangs of aboriginal boys. That sorted itself out though when the Africans realised they would always be massively outnumbered and aboriginal boys are a totally different proposition to white ones.
However I can comment on the terminology being used by police to distract from the issue. Similar to Sweden, police statements now contain phrases like “ Australian born” as in, the majority of violent crime is committed by Australian born young people, ignoring the fact that many are the children of African migrants. In Sweden the politically correct phrase is “Swedish National” with regard crime figures which includes those of African origin and lumps them all together.
Personally, I would be very hesitant to invite people from a violent culture, with totally different values, into my house, but that’s just me.
We have enough of our own violent people to deal with, without inviting more in.
Posted by Big Nana, Tuesday, 24 July 2018 10:27:28 AM
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AC,

I presume that when people post they join the debate
or argument for a reason. I take their views in
good faith. However, -

It's hard to continue a
conversation with someone when all they try to do is
put you down instead of addressing the issue at hand.

I think it's quite right to stir.

I have also learned from this
forum - not to have views set in concrete because people can
often surprise and often do. That's why I like this forum. It
consistently surprises. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes
not so good. But, it's never dull.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 24 July 2018 10:51:04 AM
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Foxy,

Not only do I speak Hindi but also Irish and Scots Gaelic (really the same language, only divided by Academics!), and French with a smattering of a few others.

My wife, who is from India, and I sometimes hold conversations in different languages, she may start in Hindi and I'll reply in French, good fun and keeps the old brain active.

Our son, who speaks Hindi also, is learning Irish so that his brothers and sisters can't annoy him by speaking Irish.

Speaking a foreign language can sometimes have a bad moment when some yobo gets offended, they shut up quickly when one switches into their own common vernacular; many years ago a friend and I were conversing quietly in English (in a Sydney suburban train) and a drunk said to us loudly, "Why don't you bloody wogs speak English?"

So my mate said, loud enough for all to hear, "Introibo ad altare Dei" to which I replied, "Ad Deum qui laetificat juventutem meam."

The yobo went right off, so we continued the Latin of the Mass; we'd both been Altar Boys.

Around the carriage, there were broad smiles from Catholics or Latinists and incomprehension from others until their neighbours let them in on the joke.
The yobo shut up when his next shot at us provoked general laughter.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 24 July 2018 12:11:36 PM
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The gutless Victorian Opposition has joined the Victorian government in referring to African gangs as 'youth' gangs, even though we all know that they mean AFRICAN gangs. They do not describe all these non-African gangs, because they don't exist; and, like all politicians they think we are too stupid to notice that all of these 'youth' gangs are made up of black Africans.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 24 July 2018 1:15:15 PM
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Is Mise,

Wow! I am impressed with your language skills.
So your wife is from India? You lucky man.

I enjoyed reading your public transport experience.
Some people can really be aggressive - especially when under
the influence. But you did very well in showing up that
person. I probably would have moved to avoid confrontation.
Good for you!

My parents also had a lot of experiences like the
one you described. (What immigrant hasn't?)

Dad could speak several languages - but he
was told to "Speak English," regularly on public transport
(even though he was often with much more elderly people who had not
yet learned to speak English). I hope that today - those
things don't happen that frequently.

I remember a parent and teacher night at my son's private
school and having the Headmaster telling me that I wasn't
the "typical immigrant." As if I got off the boat yesterday.
The man meant it as a compliment.

I also remember a young Italian mother filling out a library
enrolment form for her little girl and putting the girl's name
down as "Lucia." The little girl told me that her name was
"Lucy." I asked - "But it says "Lucia, here on the form?"
The girl replied," the kids at school make fun of "Lucia" so I
use "Lucy" instead." I said that I understood. But then I
added - "Lucia is such a beautiful name and very special.
Anyone can be called Lucy. But
Lucia is just that extra special." The little girl didn't
say anything there and then. However on the next library visit -
the mum came up to me and said, "I want to Thank You."
"For what?" I asked. She replied, "My little girl is now
insisting on being called "Lucia."

I should also add - I ran the Storytime Sessions in that
library so I was popular with the kids - perhaps my opinion
did have some influence.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 24 July 2018 1:41:06 PM
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Foxy,

"Wow! I am impressed with your language skills.
So your wife is from India? You lucky man"

Thank you; yes I am lucky and we've been married for twenty-six very happy years.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 24 July 2018 2:26:53 PM
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Is Mise,

Congratulations and All The Best!
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 24 July 2018 3:11:20 PM
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Hey Big Nana and ttbn,
Yes they do seem deliberately play down or obfuscate the facts on crimes involving migrants or those who we might consider foreigners.
I assume they would claim they do it for political correctness - I'm not sure the topics ever really been debated but they definately do.

But I think the whole things more sinister.
I think it's to destroy and semblance of nationalism.
That it's impossible for us to identify our own, and to destroy any resemblance of Australian identity other than the one they are giving us.

Why do I think that?
- Because they don't mind sharing the ethnicy of someone the cops are looking for when they WANT the public's assistance.

Why is that happening in our society?
You can't build something new until you already existed first.

Say hello to the New World Order.
Communist bloody conspiracy that's what it is.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 24 July 2018 4:42:25 PM
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I think it's to destroy and semblance of nationalism.
Armchair Critic,
Even village idiots can see that, the problem is how to make the academically indoctrinated see it.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 25 July 2018 7:01:04 AM
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Individual said- "Even village idiots can see that, the problem is how to make the academically indoctrinated see it."

Answer- "Academics profit from immigration" and push it (especially Social Sciences- SocSci). Their "perspicacity" is based on their self interest. They justify it to themselves based on the notion of open/ globalised research and forget the community around them. This is very concerning as academics are supposedly objective- to such an extent that they are often considered the definition of objectivity by the community- they talk about "vanity publishing" in academia- it appears to be endemic in the Social Sciences. "Social Science is not science" apparently but is just an invention of Emile Durkheim (died 1917 France). Academics are supposed to be above superficial self interest and are rewarded well for this role- modern academics are an insult to Socrates, Galileo, and the thousands of years of history of academic inquiry. "Academics and Universities can no longer be trusted." "Academics have become politicians."
Posted by Canem Malum, Wednesday, 25 July 2018 10:41:29 AM
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I just don't get why people on this forum can not see the forest for the trees.

TAKE YOUR BLINKERS OFF PEOPLE.
This problem is real and we are stupid enough to encourage it.

Political correctness has so much to answer for in modern day society.
Posted by rehctub, Thursday, 26 July 2018 2:12:57 PM
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