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The Forum > General Discussion > Muslims and Rape

Muslims and Rape

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Susanna Feldman was a 14 yr old Jewish girl living in Wiesbaden, Germany when she was accosted, raped and strangled to death by Ali Bashar, a young Iraqi refugee who was already suspected of another rape and violent robbery. Bashir and his family fled Germany back to Iraq (the place they sought refuge from!!).

Bad as this is, what I want to concentrate on is the propensity of Muslims to rape and generally mistreat women. Clearly we have a problem with these people which can only be addressed through education and social programmes. Muslims must be taught that their way of treating women is simply wrong and they must be retrained to respect all women despite what their culture and religion teaches them.

This must start in their formative years both in primary and infants school. Equally their parents have to be taught to raise their children in a more enlightened way which clearly means that those parents will have to be likewise taught new ways of thinking individually and through community-wide public campaigns.

There is no option if the rights of women are to be respected and protected from this scourge.
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 3:19:02 PM
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mhaze,

Essentially what you are suggesting is that our Muslims abjure the Koran and become, if not Infidels, at least non-Muslims.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 4:28:23 PM
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mhaze,

Have you recently read some of the comments here on OLO
from some of the men who post here regularly dealing
with the topic of violence against women?

And you're only singling out Muslim men?

Males were involved in 82.6% of adult male deaths, 93.5% of
adult female deaths and 55.6% of child and youth deaths.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/rendezview/170-reasons-to-stand-up-to-violence-in-2018/news-story/08c130fef99c662d77b8be2b4af5d8e3

And -

http://www.ourwatch.org.au/understanding-violence/facts-and-figures
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 4:54:40 PM
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Is Mise,
If respecting women disqualified people from being Muslims then I'd support a complete ban on Muslims entering Australia. So, I suspect, would the majority of those Australians who currently identify themselves as Muslims.

There is nothing in the Koran which commands them to disrespect women.
Posted by Aidan, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 5:01:34 PM
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Aidan,

You must have a different edition.

"Quran (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" (see also verse 4:176). In Islam, sexism is mathematically established.
Quran (2:282) - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women." Muslim apologists offer creative explanations to explain why Allah felt that a man's testimony in court should be valued twice as highly as a woman's, but studies consistently show that women are actually less likely to tell lies than men, meaning that they make more reliable witnesses.

Quran (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them [women]"

Quran (5:6) - "And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it" Men are to rub dirt or water on their hands to purify themselves, following casual contact with a woman (such as shaking hands).

Quran (24:31) - Women are to lower their gaze around men, so they do not look them in the eye. (To be fair, men are told to do the same thing in the prior verse).

Quran (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." A man has dominion over his wives' bodies as he does his land. This verse is overtly sexual. There is some dispute as to whether it is referring to the practice of anal intercourse. If this is what Muhammad meant, then it would appear to contradict what he said in Muslim (8:3365).

Quran (4:3) - (Wife-to-husband ratio) "Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four" Inequality by numbers.

Quran (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." Angels are sublime beings, and would therefore be male."

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/women-worth-less.aspx
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 5:12:43 PM
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Muslim males have very low opinion of their own females whom they don’t trust - hence the covering up of them, something that is NOT a requirement of Islam, which asks for modesty, but not that women turn themselves into walking tents.

Muslims think of Western women as meat, and believe that they should be punished for their loose, provocative ways: so, they rape them. Rape is a violent, controlling action by misogynists - nothing to do with sexual gratification. The cult of Islam is about misogyny, violence and hatred. What do Westerners stupid enough to allow Muslims into our society expect? That they will suddenly change when they get here?
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 5:37:02 PM
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"Susanna Feldman was a 14 yr old Jewish girl living in Wiesbaden, Germany when she was accosted, raped and strangled to death by Ali Bashar, a young Iraqi refugee who was already suspected of another rape and violent robbery. Bashir and his family fled Germany back to Iraq (the place they sought refuge from!!)."

He wasn't a refugee.
He just took his family on a German taxpayer-funded infidel child-raping holiday, and then he went home.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 6:20:29 PM
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Jaymes Todd, 19 of Broadmeadows raped and murdered
Eurydice Dixon in Melbourne. He turned himself in
to police. Should we then assume that all Australian
white men are guilty? Because this is what's being inferred
here concerning Muslims. Is that being fair?

The rise of Islamic extremism should not result in
abuse, stereotyping and prejudice against an entire
group of people. According to the 2011 census Muslims
only make up 2.2% of this country's population. And
Islam is the 4th largest religious grouping in Australia.

Muslims are to be found in all walks of life in this
country. We have Ahmed Fahour - CEO of Australia Post.
Ed Husic - an Australian Federal Politician, Captain
Mona Shindy, Captain in the Royal Australian Navy,
Waleed Aly - TV and Radio presenter and university
lecturer, Sabrina Houssami - Miss World Australia 2006,
and the list goes on.

What pleasure do any of you get from demeaning any religion
or people? Is this what's known as a "fair go?"
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 6:43:37 PM
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Is Mise,
I don't dispute the Koran has sexist content. But none of the verses you quoted command men to disrespect women.
Posted by Aidan, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 7:01:01 PM
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Foxy's pigheaded blindness shows exactly why in England France Germany and Australia Muslim rape and paedophile rings flourish. The answer of course is education. Same mantra same stupidity
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 7:38:21 PM
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runner,

It's not pig-headedness at all. What it is -
is not putting the vast majority of sensible,
civilised and peaceful Muslims into the same
basket as the terrorists, extremists.
And you as a self-proclaimed Christian should
know your comments are totally inappropriate
responses for a follower of Christ's teachings.
Christianity believes in forgiveness, even of
a perceived enemy. Christ's ordinance of total
love, of self-offering to the assailant is in
any strict sense an enormity. A monstrous
proposition for some - but one shedding fathomless
light.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 7:59:51 PM
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//Bad as this is, what I want to concentrate on is the propensity of Muslims to rape and generally mistreat women.//

If only they weren't Muslims, hey? Because we all know non-Muslims never, ever rape or generally mistreat women. Well, except for that Austrian bloke who kept his daughter locked in a cell for 24 years and raped her repeatedly. And the guy who raped Eurydice Dixon. And Jimmy Savile, of course....

Actually, now that I come to think about it, an awful lot of non-Muslims rape and mistreat women.

I don't understand why people want to aid and abet the cause of Islamic terrorism. We all know that Islamic extremists lack the numbers and the resources to pose a credible military threat to the West, which is why they have to rely on terrorist tactics. That means fanning the flames of fear and division in our society, so that we'll be at each other's throats and less able to present a cohesive, unified front against real threats. The classic divide-and-conquer strategy.

Why would anybody want to help them with the dividing part of that strategy? What on earth is it that they're hoping to achieve? Are they not concerned that if the overwhelming message that at-risk Muslims youths hear coming from the wider Australian population is 'you're alien and wicked and our enemy', it might just turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy?

I don't get it. I really don't. A house divided against itself cannot stand, yet here we have all these mental buggers trying their darndest to divide Australia against itself. Madness.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 8:31:54 PM
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Hi Foxy,
Re your earlier comment Wednesday, 11 July 2018 6:43:37 PM.

"...Because this is what's being inferred here concerning Muslims. Is that being fair?"

"The rise of Islamic extremism should not result in abuse, stereotyping and prejudice against an entire group of people."

Now normally I'd concede that you made a fair and reasonable argument, and I'd give you credit for doing so.
I suppose there is a dilemma of sorts.

What pleasure do any of you get from demeaning any religion or people? Is this what's known as a "fair go?"

I don't get any pleasure from it why would you automatically assume that?
- But you shouldn't have said "fair go".

I thought to myself has Islam given England a fair go? Germany? France?

You know I often talk about ethics:
So you want the Muslims and I don't.
If you had real ethics you'd respect that other of your fellow countrymen and women don't want them, and you should respect our wishes first over the wishes of foreigners.
If you did that, then there wouldn't be Muslims here to be discriminated against.

You think your taking the moral high ground, but is it really that when your choice removes any choice for the nations citizens who dont want Islam and who you couldn't care less about.

And is it not traditional white Australia, who were the ones who let you come and share this nation with them your are betraying the most?

And if you really want Islam why don't you go to one those countries, move to a Muslim enclave and test it out.

Islam can get stuffed, it's a death-cult.

Please don't take offense or take it personal the things I say, I do respect you're a valued member and contributor of this forum the same as anyone, but I have to stand up for what I believe in.

I won't have my nation, my home destroyed and turned into on of those European write-off countries because you scream unfairness, prejudice and fair go.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 10:36:35 PM
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If rape wasn't more common among Muslims, and if women were treated better within Islam, then this wouldn't be an issue.

Unfortunately it is an issue, and is part of the equation for assisting those trying to flee their war torn countries. A second unfortunate part of the equation is that most of the countries fled to are not places the refugees like. So they don't welcome it as their home or respect it for the country that gave them a new home and a new life away from the war or other reasons they left.

The issue of rape is bad enough. The issue with not accepting the country that they move to adds to it unrepentant crime, and little chance that education will have any influence at all.

That said, what are we to do? Close borders to muslims? Do nothing for those suffering and in desperate need? I don't think throwing caution to the wind, is any better then being heartless in the face of suffering. Both need to be carefully examined instead of choosing one and leaving the other.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Thursday, 12 July 2018 12:01:38 AM
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Muslims oppress their women so badly that they made two of them leaders of their respective countries - Pakistan and Indonesia.
You can still go and see belly dancers in Turkey, a voluntary and respected occupation.

Women originally had equality because according to their version of the the Garden of Eden myth, both were equally tempted and therefore women were not soley blamed for "the fall" as is done in Christendom, which officially regards them as property and baby-making machines. (Something to be coveted, like an ass). Also, Eve was not made from Adam's rib but both came from "one soul".

Historically Muslim women once had more rights than Christian women including being able to independently own property and hold positions of authority.
Even the notion of chivalry was brought back to England by soldiers returning from the Crusades.

However modern female oppression still occurs in the archaic orthodox theocracies of some Muslim countries and is not so much different from female oppression globally.

There is a known but silent epidemic of domestic violence within the families of some Christian Ministers as well as the well-known abuse of children generally.

Like the popular terrorist meme, "not all men are rapists but all rapists are men" and it happens in all countries under all juristictions.

To take one example and generalise it to apply to billions of people is not only misleading, it's just plain bigotry.
Posted by rache, Thursday, 12 July 2018 1:14:41 AM
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Rache. It's not just one example though. As for Christian ministers abusing their wife's and children (or even Catholic priests having sex with children) it's not bigotry that many people lose heart in their faith and in the churches over these matters and leave. The same response over Muslim rape is just as justified when hearing a series of examples of Muslim rape attacks, as it would be for people to lose confidance in the church over examples of abuse.

But for the sake of bigotry. Look at the details. Is there a higher number of rapes coming from refugees then from general population as a whole? If so that shows a problem and a trend to stand against.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Thursday, 12 July 2018 1:53:21 AM
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Let every one of us be aware and act on the understanding this site can suffer as it has in the past if we become openly racist,now yes I am a nonbeliever, think honestly humanity can never be one unless we truly debate why any faith should make rules for us to live by, too! the death of the term integration was forced on us,that too many from this faith *every faith*act well badly because they think that faith wants them too,but can any one, say every member of any faith is evil?these rapes took place, the offenders are Muslim,Christians, even PRIESTS commit rape,mix the cocktail of hate but aim it at every faith, can we open our eyes? see the whole world is facing a problem as mass migration mass refugees, thelast not even near its peak numbers to come, and that like it or not it is too late to stop?
contined
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 12 July 2018 8:27:50 AM
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How can we talk of this? are we free to say what we wish to? see this faith, like everyone, grows strongest in places that have poor people often not well educated and a culture we would never want to see here, but not near every one of them is a racist,the children of most migrants will fit in as well as any group, we however will never see any race any faith not presenting us with problems,multi culture is a support for more problems, until we look at faith and its effects on our daily life we will find some posting about Muslim sins but we can if we wish post a million a week about crime branding the offenders by other faiths integration is only the name of a community living together with mutual respect,much pain awaits us until we see that
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 12 July 2018 8:39:46 AM
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Aidan,

"I don't dispute the Koran has sexist content. But none of the verses you quoted command men to disrespect women."

Perhaps not, but they are loaded with encouragement.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 12 July 2018 10:44:34 AM
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Armchair Critic,

The key feature of prejudice is that it is always
rooted in generalisations and so ignores the
differences among individuals. Therefore someone
who is prejudiced against Muslims will tend to
have a negative attitude toward any Muslim in the
belief that all Muslims share the same supposed traits.

My attempt was to try to point this out that some
people tend to think in terms of general categories, if
only to enable them to make sense of the world by
simplifying its complexity.

What do any of you really know about Islam? Yes over the
past decade religious fervour has erupted in the Islamic
world in general and in the Middle East in particular.
This fervour has been inspired by fundamentalism.

To many Westerners Islamic fundamentalism seems like an
almost scandalous return to a medieval morality. It
conjures forth images of women behind veils, of adulterers
being stoned, of thieves having their hands cut off,
of public floggings and executions, of martyrdom in holy
wars, and in extreme cases, of political fanaticism exemplified
in aircraft hijackings and terrorist bombings.

This picture is rather distorted, for it is based on what is
newsworthy rather than what is typical.

You seem to be under the impression that I am somehow condoning
these extremist activities. I'm not - people who commit these
sort of acts are extremists. And they exist amongst all religions.
You then tell me I should move to an Islamic country - and not
to take this personally? Are you serious? That is not logical.
And I shall ignore it.

Suffice to say that your concern for our country being swamped
by Muslims (they only make up less that 2% of our population)
is unwarranted. Getting into this country is not easy for
a start - people are put through all sorts of scrutiny - and
so your fear-mongering is just that. You say that this is your
country and you are concerned about it. It's my country
too and it is also the country of the 2% of Muslims who live
here as well.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 12 July 2018 10:53:14 AM
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Foxy quote "Getting into this country is not easy for a start - people are put through all sorts of scrutiny"

I would say that statement only applies when the Labor party is not in office, over 50,000 during Rudd and Gillard most were not properly assessed before being let into the community.
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 12 July 2018 11:00:27 AM
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Judging by the rubbish coming in, ‘scrutiny’ is inadequate no matter which galahs are in government. Getting into Australia is definitely too easy.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 12 July 2018 11:46:37 AM
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What should be considered to change Muslim males indoctrination is to only let female muslims into the country. They've proven to be open to enlightenment but they should be encouraged to keep distance from the western feminist movement. That way they'd be close to being perfect women to help rebuild the nation.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 12 July 2018 1:05:14 PM
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individual,

I generally go along with you, but I have say say that I have not seen any evidence that Muslim women are much different from the men, or that they are particularly "open" to anything. There is also the little problem of Muslim women not being allowed to go anywhere without permission. It's too late now. No Muslims should have been allowed into the country in the first place, and they would not have been if our ignorant politicians had been aware that immigration is a much more dangerous weapon than terrorism in the colonising of the West.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 12 July 2018 1:23:02 PM
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IF this thread was say about the rape of children by Priests and others in the Catholic Church, some one surely would point out it is and was not only that Church but very near any of them who offended? and that some one could in all truth remind us it was never all in that Church? how about the increasingly cult like deep southern USA Christian Churches? or the one haunting the relatives of dead American service men and women? look for evil in any group and you will find it, change first must be achievable,if we want change here in the western world, change from the real fear, danger,and wounds to our existing culture, look first at what both sides can do to ensure faith is not a power base, not inflicted on others ever,, and too look at the truth the real truth, about why humanity needs faith so much we invented them, by the dozen
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 12 July 2018 1:39:46 PM
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I wrote this opening post as an experiment. One of the categories I listed it under was "Homour & Satire" mainly because there wasn't a tongue-in-cheek option. This was a thought experiment to test a theory.

Careful reading of my post will show that I never said "All Muslims" are implicated because of the actions of this one rapists. I just said muslims this and muslims that but never 'all' muslims.

Nonetheless, everyone assumed that I was referring to "All Muslims" and went into bat for or against them all.

Yet when SHY said things like "men can't control themselves", "men behave like morons and pigs", and that we should teach our boys to stop raping our girls, it was deemed inappropriate for others to draw the conclusion that she was referring to "all men".

Leyonhjelm drew the same inference as everyone here has, and then pointed out that the natural response to believing that (all) men were rapists was to avoid men.

Leyonhjelm's interpretation of what SHY (and the rest of the sisterhood) says was perfectly understandable in the same way as the interpretation everyone here drew about what I wrote was perfectly understandable.

I'm rather chuffed at that result.
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 12 July 2018 1:53:20 PM
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Foxy, about the “vast majority of sensible, civilized, peaceful Muslims”. The fact is that tall Muslims blindly accept Islamic dogma, never questioning the disconnect between reality and belief.

In 2002 a woman named Zarmina, a mother of three, was brutally executed with shot in the head in Kabul's Olympic Stadium in front of 30,000 cheering spectators. Where were the sensible, civilized Muslims?

In 2006 there was an article here on the Grand Muffin of Australia’s use of the word “meat” to describe women (not to mention other slurs). It became a scandal when reported by a newspaper, 3weeks after the sermon was given. So for 21 days not a single “sensible, civilized, peaceful” Muslim objected. Only when the infidel press exposes the issue, a few rush in to condemn. Here is the tread for that article:
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5073

Fast forward 12 years and what do we see. Muslims killing each other and fleeing to the West, taking their morals and chaos with them. We see bombs, truck attacks, rapes and, most of all, denial.

We see a group calling itself “Islamic State” killing and bringing suffering to millions. This group, ISIS, even has a do-it-yourself Sex Slave manual, full of quotes from the Quran and hadith to justify rape and enslavement. Where were the sensible, civilised and peaceful Muslims? Crickets.

Foxy, recently some jihadists posted a videos online of themselves posing with the naked mutilated body of a girl named Amina Omar, making jokes and, of course, yelling “allahuakbar” – a real trophy. Where did they learn this? If “civilized” Muslims are a majority, why can’t they control or eliminate the fanatics? Maybe it is because the fanatics know Islam better...

Maybe tomorrow I will find time to post some quotes from the hadith about how Mohammad and his men treated women.

I have spoken with many Muslims, and from what I know, they may be wonderful people. The problem is that once you start talking about what the quran and hadith actually say, they become evasive and start making excuses. That being the case, they cannot be trusted.
Posted by kactuz, Thursday, 12 July 2018 3:08:15 PM
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mhaze I believe you are the one who is wrong "Muslims and Rape" I do not believe for one minute all or even one of the people on this thread believe it meant "all Muslims every single one of them".

Furthermore you wrote
"Clearly we have a problem with these people"
and
"Muslims must be taught that their way of treating women is simply wrong"
and this one
"Equally their parents have to be taught to raise their children in a more enlightened way"
Your final comment
"There is no option if the rights of women are to be respected and protected from this scourge."

If as you claim it was an experiment it is a very badly worded one in that like some survey questions it is designed to give a specific outcome.
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 12 July 2018 3:42:06 PM
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Muslim, Islam, those two words like it or not bring out thoughts and fears of terrorism crime, a host of things, all true but as my early post said, even asked are we any better? yes know the holly book of this faith is harsh, have we all read the first testament? the very fact some, truly CHRISTIAN, use another holly book to flog Islam adds to my view it is well past time we asked did Gods if they created us, do so so we would hate each other,let me be frank, this country should ban the Burka, never ever stop returning criminals and terrorist to the homes they or their parents came from, the same however is said here and now about those from any race faith or country that will not live by our laws
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 12 July 2018 4:40:33 PM
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Dear Kactuz,

Kindly read the following link - it just may clarify a few
things for you and you just may realise that you fears
are unfounded.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-10/australia-shouldnt-live-in-fear-of-terror-attacks/8692928
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 12 July 2018 5:03:02 PM
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It is interesting to read Foxy's comments. It rings very familiar if
you have been reading the words of the excusers in the UK and elsewhere.
The police in the UK have long tried to avoid facing up to the sex
trafficing of thousands of young English girls.
One girl stated that some of them quoted the Koran at her while they
were raping her. The gangs NEVER had muslim girls as sex slaves as
that was forbidden. However infidel women, the Koran tells them, that
those you take by the right hand can be used for sex at any time.

In the UK you could be arrested for criticizing muslims about the
sex gang networks. One father was arrested because he was bashing
on a door to get in to rescue his daughter.

There has been such a rumpus in the UK about the gangs that finally
the police had to act and a few gangs have been through the courts.
What I have written here would get me arrested in the UK on a charge
of Islamaphobia. I could join others in gaol.

Foxy, you are either totally ignorant of what is going on or you are
one of those people that in Europe have just turned your back and walked away.
Bil Al and company in the Super Max at Goulburn would thank you.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 12 July 2018 5:28:45 PM
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How comforting: another reference from the Left's ABC, and another Muslim lying in the service of Islam. Only fools believe the ABC and Muslims who use 'taqiya' with every breath to encourage useful idiots like Foxy.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 12 July 2018 5:54:32 PM
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Dear Bazz,

Australia is not the UK. Kindly read the link I gave
earlier - it explains things quite clearly.

ttbn,

You know so little and you know it so fluently.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 12 July 2018 6:30:54 PM
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If “civilized” Muslims are a majority, why can’t they control or eliminate the fanatics?
Kactuz,
I think that all the time too & considering we can't control a handful of extreme Leftists & feminists & Greens then what hope do ordinary Muslims have against gun & machete wielding morons ?
Posted by individual, Thursday, 12 July 2018 7:18:58 PM
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Australia is not the UK.
Foxy,
Surely you can't be so delusioned as to believe that Australia will not experience exactly the same once the numbers are right ?
Check those links of yours, the older ones from Britain when they still believed then what you believe now.
I'm not a religious freak but I am praying that you can prove me wrong.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 12 July 2018 7:24:59 PM
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Foxy some things never change and you must rise above them because unlike just a couple who target you here, have the ability to debate without using it, again, for sure and certain, some who think of themselves as true CHRISTIANS use that belief in a way Christ would never have wanted them to, faith all of them, in the wrong hands harms us all
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 12 July 2018 7:54:23 PM
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Dear Belly,

As we both know there are genuine concerns in the
community about all sorts of things. If my father
was alive today - he'd be quite uncomfortable at some
of the changes taking place. I guess
older people especially don't like change and that
I can see from both the comments on this forum and
from the people that I meet in the nursing home - where
mum used to be and with which I still keep in touch.
However, from the links that I've read
and given - I tried to point out why some of the fears were
unwarranted in this country. Hopefully, history will prove
that to be right.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 13 July 2018 10:25:49 AM
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Foxy I too have noted the aged often let fear drive them, not balanced thought, my highlighting the Catholic Churches troubles could have selected from many other groups and faiths,sexual assault has never been the exclusive crime of one faith or group
Posted by Belly, Friday, 13 July 2018 11:50:12 AM
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individual,

I do like the way you have likened the lack of control over Muslims with our problems with Green Labor. The two are natural partners.Both are totalitarian and intolerant.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 13 July 2018 1:07:04 PM
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Dear Belly,

I tried in another discussion to point out that the
only thing we can be responsible for is our own minds.
In this country today there is what I described as
a "malignant thought form" that other people are the
problem. For example Conservatives tend to blame
what they call Leftists and Greens for their problems
and the Leftists and Greens tend to blame the
Conservatives. The media blames almost everyone, and
almost everyone blames immigrants and refugees.
Some people are convinced that gays are the problem,
while others think that single mothers and feminists
are. Still others think Christian Right is the
problem, others blame the clergy in general. It seems
that the entire culture has become a hysterical
blame session.

Yet as I also stated a healthy vital society is not
one in which we all agree. It is one in which those
who choose to disagree can do so with honour and respect
for other people's opinions, and an appreciation of our
shared humanity.

Anyway, I don't want to sound like I'm preaching here.
And I am fully aware that I also am guilty of being
disrespectful towards people whose opinions I
strongly disagree with. I have to keep reminding myself
that it is important that we renew dignified and
respectful dialogue with those who do not agree with us
than that we keep slavishly congratulating those who have
the wisdom to see things our way. But boy, this is hard
to do at times when it comes down to controversial and
emotional issues - right? I keep telling myself - go
for a walk, go for a run, (although with my bung leg -
that's not longer as easy as it used to be). Anyway you
get the picture.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 13 July 2018 2:06:32 PM
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Foxy my age has let me see changes some will never know about in politics, Sir Robert Menzies the founder of the Liberals would be confused to see his policies used far more by Labor than his party, the left slur is used often wrongly but if believing health education transport welfAre are basics for good government and leftist, then mark me left, if tax breaks for the rich and no tax for super rich multinationals is needed to run a country? just a thought one contributor uses much the same bigoted stuff that saw Mark Latham unmasked on twitter could it be?
Posted by Belly, Friday, 13 July 2018 2:50:03 PM
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Dear Belly,

You could well be right.

I've been wondering myself about a couple of
things that seem so familiar.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 13 July 2018 6:17:29 PM
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Well done mhaze. You certainly fooled me. I was shocked when I read the first post. I accept that SHY's are comparable and should have no place in parliament. Senator Llejonhelm's comments were equally unacceptable. Just because I criticise one of them, doesn't mean I defend the other.
Posted by benk, Friday, 13 July 2018 8:01:06 PM
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Maybe worth considering events in Sydney over 50 years ago, gang rape, horrible and dreadful events that had the city its western suburbs at least, worried, all done by WASP.S too the deaths of over 50 gay men near our beaches murders some say police may have been involved in,look for dirt in any group and you will find it.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 14 July 2018 7:45:39 AM
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Belly,
Enlighten me! Details of the gang rapes in Sydney 50 years ago?

The only gang rapes I am aware of is the Leb muslims raping Aussie girls at Bankstown area some 18 years ago, closely followed by the Parkistani boys efforts. Police had some 60 reports of gang rapes so they did not get them all. The real shame of this is that the MSM colluded and decided to play it down because it may have detrimental effects on the upcoming Olympics. Proper public awareness could have saved some girls The media ignored police statements warning of possible attacks.
Posted by Banjo, Saturday, 14 July 2018 10:30:07 AM
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Gang rapes by white anglo saxon protestants 50 years ago! Over 50 dead homos on (which?) beach! Police “may” have been involved! ( would that be 50 police?)! 50 years ago I was 25 years old, with at least average observation skills and an interest in current affairs, I recall no such havoc and mayhem.

Another wild story from Belly that he cannot backup because he is no longer responding to me. Convenient, hey?
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 14 July 2018 11:21:05 AM
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From my research it appears that there were many gay
hate crimes in Sydney decades ago in which police
apparently took part. This time was referred to as
the "hate decades." And anyone can Google this
information on the web. It seems that Bondi and
Tamarama were popular hot spots:

http://sbs.com.au/gay/hatedecades/

http://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/almost-one-third-of-88-suspicious-deaths-in-24-years-were-gay-hate-crimes-strike-force-finds-20180626-p4znv7.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_acts_of_violence_against_LGBT_people
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 14 July 2018 12:11:01 PM
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Banjo not only did they take place but those convicted, mostly from around Liverpool area went to prison for a very long time, like the rapes you highlighted those involved are filth at best,,, they bought gang rape to our attention long before the ones you rightly name,yes one beach, one gay beat, one group murdered, Gentlemen, do we here in a thread targeting one group of rapist filth see? see some are defending another group of filth? think about that, explain it to me,, filth is filth not matter the race or faith
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 14 July 2018 12:19:49 PM
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Many of you are missing the point that mhaze made. We all agree that it is unfair to stereotype racial or cultural groups, because they include rapists. As many people have said, all groups include rapists. By the same logic, it should not be OK to stereotype men, or use the same language Senator Hansen-Young used.
Posted by benk, Saturday, 14 July 2018 12:52:24 PM
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My apologies. The first link that I gave - I left out
a bit - here it is again:

http://www.sbs.com.au/gay/hatedecades/
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 14 July 2018 1:06:07 PM
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Belly,
I lived in Sydney for a number of years about that period and do not recall what you term as gang rapes. There may well have been individual rapes that occured but any gang rapes would have been really big news, so you should not have too much trouble tracking them down, if any happened.

No the real gang rapes, with racial motives, happened leading up to the Sydney Olympics and were covered up by the press. They were carried out by the Lebs and later by some Pakistani brothers. I think that, in your haste to support Foxy with her leftist views, you are distorting the facts. You know Foxy sees muslims through rose coloured glasses. Maybe your memory is not what it used to be.

Don't forget it was Fraser that allowed the parents of the rapists to come here in large numbers and we should not forget that. We continue to pay for that. Females are the sacrificial lambs for muslim immigration, as Europe is finding out.
Posted by Banjo, Saturday, 14 July 2018 1:15:36 PM
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There was not much we could have done about bad Australians. They were already here. We could have prevented bad immigrants from committing crimes by not bring them here. Dragging up home-grown scum has nothing to do with any discussion on imported scum. There are a group of posters who are interested only in denegrating their own country and countrymen. 'Sick' is the only word to describe them.
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 14 July 2018 1:30:46 PM
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To face our own past is not denigration.
It is merely admitting what was done was wrong and
correcting it to ensure that it never happens
again.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 14 July 2018 1:36:06 PM
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Bango, please know I will not knowingly, lie to prop up a thought, yes they took place, up to 20 offenders, Chester hill Fairfield Liverpool areas, cars and groups of men ,one horrible near death bashing was included ,rather than question my honesty goggle them,BUT highlighting a Muslim case, IN ANOTHER COUNTRY to prop up a view every Muslim is a threat? we share some views about this faith, for a start SOME wear the burka to confront and offend us,it should be banned, that woman who refused to stand in court send her home or export her if she is born here, but me no buts however not every faith is all bad
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 14 July 2018 4:12:49 PM
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Dear Belly,

I totally agree with you that anyone who breaks our
laws should have the book thrown at them and pay the
full price under our laws - no matter who they are.

However we're told that more Australian have died
at the hands of police in the past decades or from
domestic violence than from any terrorist attacks
in Australia.

The Australian Muslim community is fragmented into
not only the traditional sectarian divisions of what
each sect defines as Islam, but it is also extremely
diverse racially, ethnically, culturally, and
linguistically. And different groups within the
Australian Muslim Community also espouse parallel
non-religious ethnic identities with related
non-Muslim counterparts wither within Australia or
abroad.

Lumping them all into one group all sharing the same
characteristics - is not a true picture at all.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 14 July 2018 4:23:20 PM
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Down from 50 to 20 now Belly. Couple more posts, and there will be none: all made up by you. I don’t think “Bango” will have to “goggle” anything. Not sure if Banjo will bother to Google, either.
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 14 July 2018 4:46:32 PM
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Dear Belly,

Don't worry - I think Banjo doesn't have a closed
mind. Besides he knows how to Google.
As for numbers? He'll soon find there's even more
there than what you quoted.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 14 July 2018 5:06:03 PM
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ttbn you are quite a grub aren't you? Banjo, back only to say even I knowing the names and places could not yet find the link, but, E Cobby, the poor lass abducted at that railway station, both murdered and both groups pure filth,found a host of rapes in my search but will find the ones you call me out on,let us both be frank, we can find reason, honest ones, to be unhappy with enclaves in Muslim communities, most did it on their arrival here, but to think all are bad is just not true,Question, not lifting my shirt and running away again, but if ttbn is not a troll what is a troll?
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 14 July 2018 5:48:43 PM
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Belly,

Your resolution to not respond to me was a load of hot air as well, then. You just had to call me a ‘grub’ because I’m onto your nonsense. What a scholar! You don’t have the sense to know what a fool you are making of yourself.
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 14 July 2018 7:17:38 PM
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Dear Belly,

Ignore the troll.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 14 July 2018 7:41:44 PM
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Belly,
I do not say all muslims are rapists but there is more than sufficient evidence to see that muslims are incompatable with our society and that is why I advocate that we stop further immigration of muslims. The more muslims that are here the more problems we will have, just like the UK and Europe. I surely do not want a situation where the muslims are grooming our young girls to be prostitutes, like is happening in the UK.

The world is full of people wanting to come here, we do not have to take those that hate and disspise us,even if we think we need immigrants. All muslims believe they are superior to us and rate our females as whores because of dress. They come here not to join us but as pioneers for Islam. Why do you think many left, or wanted, to fight for ISIS. As I said the more muslims we have the more problems we bring upon ourselves.
Posted by Banjo, Saturday, 14 July 2018 9:19:08 PM
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Belly,
Yes, I am aware of the Anita Coby rape and murder, but that was in 1986, not 50 years ago. I conceed it was a gang rape and murder. And that it took place before the muslim rape attacks.
Posted by Banjo, Saturday, 14 July 2018 9:50:50 PM
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'Muslims and Rape', is the title of this discussion.
I think the title has two clear meanings, and they are both expressed here, at the same time.
One meaning is implication that ALL Muslims are rapists.
The other is that correlation of rape in relation to Muslims.
The two are total opposites, yet having read all the comments with interest, I am amused at how the two interpretations have been vying for top spot on the 'who's right' chart.
So much has been written on both topics, and more, I am surprised there is anything more to say.
For my part, it is easy.
All the Muslims I know and have known, I have found them to be just like any other average Joe.
Some drink, some don't pray 5 times a day.
In other words they're mostly OK.
I can empathise by explaining it this way.
As a wog we grew up when the Mafia was very strong and effective.
So bad was it in Italy that if you lived in an apartment or within earshot of others, when the news or any mention of the Mafia came on, every one would immediately turn the volume down or off, then turn it back up after they finished reporting or commenting on the Mafia.
Why?
Because as in the Communist era, if you were listening to something to do with the Mafia, you were either for them or against them.
Either way you would be victimised or worse.
Having said all this I do in no way condone or care for the crap these scumbags and terrorists are doing, and I do believe that these bad eggs are very well known within their own people.
It's just that some are well groomed from a young age or peer pressured into complying.
And now for a worrying story.
I was discussing the infiltration and expansion of a particular group or entity.
I came to realise that the Mayor of Sydney is/was an Asian gentleman and was not very well versed in our English language.
Just something to think about.
Posted by ALTRAV, Saturday, 14 July 2018 10:11:13 PM
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ALTRAV,

Muslims who drink and don’t pray are not true Muslims, so they are not relevant. The “scumbags and terrorists” are actually true Muslims doing as the Koran demands.

I get your comment about the Asian Mayor. South Australia has a Vietnamese Governor. He was a bit of tokenism by the ex-ALP Government, but he has turned out well, and is respected.

What we should worry about is a Muslim mayor. That London has taken over from New York as the murder capital since the installation of a Muslim Lord Mayor is unlikely to be a coincidence - even if you believe in coincidences.
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 14 July 2018 11:01:52 PM
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ttbn, no I did not know about this London, Muslim mayor.
Now that's a worry.
I'm going to need time to take that in as well as some research.
WOW!
That's a biggy.
How the hell did that happen?
And so it begins.
Posted by ALTRAV, Sunday, 15 July 2018 1:06:09 AM
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Foxy done! it is not easy for me to tell it like it is in this subject, see everything I think I know about caring for other humans warns me not every Muslim is a threat, but too I know SOME use their faith, to taunt us, burka child weddings FGM a host of dark ages practices that are against the law in my country are being done! but I refuse to be silent, *not every Muslim* is a threat, I did a second grade job in naming BALDWIN and Cobby both raped and murdered by filth in Sydney, I did not find links to gang rapes in sydney's west THAT TOOK PLACE but gee, while we walked in to a trap [well done!] in this thread it, highlighted a rape in Germany, and the kick a Muslim crowd jumped in.it is my view those who took part in the Lebanese rapes like every rapist, should never be free, show me however a rape equal to the two I speak of here,that such filth did not hang disgusts me
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 15 July 2018 9:00:29 AM
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ALTRAV,

His name is Sadiq Khan. He has been Lord Mayor for two years, following the communist Ken Livingstone. There’s not a lot to be said about London ratepayers! Of course, the UK has Muslims in the House of Lords. Have you read Melanie Phillips’s ‘Londonistan’?

Anyway, Sadiq is easily found, including on YouTube, telling everyone what a ‘safe’ place London is - for Muslims, perhaps. Regular terror attacks. Moped bag snatchers are in fashion, too.

Belly,

“Done it!”. What? Brought out your killer argument ‘ttbn is a grub’? You were whittled down from 50 of everything to one: Cobbey. You “refuse to be silent”, you say. Well, you might as well stay silent, given your barely understandable gibberish. And don’t put your faith in Foxy, even if she is like you - apart from being more literate; she lives in a fantasy world, carrying on about migrants as if we were still in the 50s and 60s when they were necessary and mostly decent.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 15 July 2018 10:40:34 AM
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While researching Sydney rapes sadly came up with far too many, the woman and children murdered after mum was raped, offender lived about 100 klm from here, the ex farm hand who with his mate kidnapped his ex bosses wife raping her over days before murdering her, had the honor to know a good man deeply scared by this, a cop who worked on the case,seek and you will find,rape is not an exclusive for a race or faith it is the crime of the truly worthless always
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 15 July 2018 12:30:49 PM
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Belly,
From time to time we have had heinous crimes such as Aita Coby, Mrs Morse and the Barry/Collins murders and I considered them as murders not just gang rapes and I believe we should have the death penalty for such crimes.

But the leb muslim gang rapes were a different kettle of fish. The perpetrators lured the young girls to the places of attack then organized for many of their mates to turn up and take part. There is also no doubt they were racially motivated as they selected only 'skippies'.

I do not recall anything like this or on an organized fashion having occured previously and that is what makes the events unique. The muslim attitude to women, and particularly our girls, is a factor.

From the time the court case finished muslim immigration should have stopped and multiculturalism abandoned.
Posted by Banjo, Sunday, 15 July 2018 2:48:14 PM
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Donald Trump has been branded as Islamophobic because he slammed Sadiq Khan for his unsatisfactory response to terror attacks and crime in London. The London poms must have put in this little Muslim hoping that his religion would protect him from criticism - nobody wants to be called an Islamophobe, they think. Enter Trump! He doesn’t care what he is called. President Trump has caned everyone, including the prime minister since he landed in the UK; but who do the knob heads rush to protect: a little Pakistani Muslim. Friends of his Lordship say that he was attacked because Trump objects to a Muslim Lord Mayor. But Trump didn’t mention religion, skin colour or ethnicity. It’s all in the fevered imaginations of the Left. Their Islamic ‘protection’ from criticism didn’t work on a real man.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 15 July 2018 3:56:14 PM
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Dear Banjo,

Those were heinous crimes - the raping of young women
by those men. But, they did have the book thrown
at them in court. They won't be getting out of jail
any time soon. Rightly so.

However, why blame a majority
for the actions of a few?

Yes, this was a shocking
event - However, I feel sure that there were many decent
people of all religions including Muslims,
who would have been equally
shocked by the actions of these monsters.
I don't understand your saying
that banning all Muslim immigration and especially -
abandoning multiculturalism - is the answer.
How is that relevant?

That's like saying that British immigration should
have stopped and Colonisation abandoned due to the
many Indigenous Australians who were massacred in
the frontier wars that raged across the continent
after European Settlement in 1788.

We will never know for certain what the ratio of
black to white deaths were. The documentation needed to
determine the exact figures - as many conservative
historians insist either never existed or have been
destroyed wilfully or accidentally. However, certainly
the stories of massacres of Indigenous Australians are
everywhere in the archives of the major cultural
institutions of Australia and Great Britain.

The diaries, letters, journals, and memoirs of colonial
and post-colonial officials, troops, police, farmers,
frontiersmen and women are replete with accounts of
fights and massacres. Blaming British Settlement for
their deaths and abandoning British Colonisation I'm
sure you would not agree would have been the answer -
or would it?
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 15 July 2018 4:14:29 PM
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cont'd ...

Dear Banjo,

Talking about "gang rapes," what about the decades of
hate-crimes committed by police and others, against
gays in Sydney - before the arrival of Muslims?
Our own history is violent and tells quite a story.
Before allocating blame - we should look into our
own mirror first.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 15 July 2018 4:24:17 PM
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Bango if I ever lie or miss lead to prove a point then I am truly worthless I will not name the victims I speak of, but they did take place and in the years between 1960 and 1965,others on the northern Sydney beaches even after that,the quoted rape/murders in my view rank along side the filth you highlight,but this thread fails to convince me Muslim rape is endemic
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 15 July 2018 5:42:15 PM
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You cannot imagine how hard it is for an immigrant or even the children of migrants to be impartial in such a debate.
It saddens me if I was ever in such an awkward position having to decide.
People would be justified in bagging me if I said yes to stopping migration because obviously, I'm here now not a migrant.
However, I do not subscribe to any, I repeat, any, laws that are based on a 'one size fits all' mantra.
I have always said, what works for one group may not work for another.
Why do you think it is that even at the highest level of international meetings like NATO or even a wedding, they don't put certain people next to certain other people.
They may be sworn enemies.
Not a good look back in their respective countries.
So it is that I believe that screening should be done at a more invasive level, and the greens and left taken away and shot.
In their haste to appear the good guys in all this they refuse to accept any blame for these rapes and murders because of their stupid pride and that it will destroy their do-gooder image.
I am heartened by the fact that my ancestors and all those who came here post war did so to make a new and better life with an inclusive mind set, because they knew that making friends would be a much happier and rewarding life than making enemies.
It is a shame that it has come to this but I find no pleasure in saying this but, those people who have demonstrated their dislike or hatred towards the West have done so at their own peril.
Because human nature is what it is and people will 'circle the wagons' and come out shooting when they come under fire, their fear causes them to shoot blindly as it's the only protection they have against an invisible enemy.
And just maybe one of those wild shots will hit the right target, but unfortunately it's the stray bullets that cause the most carnage.
Posted by ALTRAV, Sunday, 15 July 2018 5:51:18 PM
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ALTRAV,

Well in Australia you're going to have to stand in
line to be impartial. Because the choice is huge.
You've got - Italian mafia families. Serbian mafia,
Albanian mafia, Russian mafia, Asian gangs, Outlaw
Motorcycle gangs, Australian organised crime gangs,
Latin and South American cartels, Street and Youth
gangs, and of course Middle Eastern gangs. Then there's
the families of crime, and prominent individuals.
Every watch "Underbelly" (TV series) an Australian
true-crime drama TV series.

Life is never boring in this country.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 15 July 2018 6:57:03 PM
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Foxy,

All the groups that you mention do not follow the Koran.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 15 July 2018 8:17:20 PM
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The Middle East gangs are muslim Is Mise.
What they get from their activity is called the Jihaz tax.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 16 July 2018 12:00:54 AM
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I googled Jihaz tax and got nothing. Can someone elaborate on what Jihaz Tax means?
Posted by ALTRAV, Monday, 16 July 2018 12:24:15 AM
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Donald Trump has been branded as Islamophobic, not just because of what he said about the London Mayor but because of what he says and does - it's as simple as that.

From his lies about witnessing 911 first-hand from his window and "the thousands of Muslims dancing in the streets" in celebration, the re-tweeting of a propaganda video by a known hate-group, multiple false and misleading allegations and banning entry to that specific religious group.

However,unlike Mexicans, he didn't specifically label them as all drug dealers, rapists and criminals but just as a group that will never assimilate into US society specifically because of their relious belief.
Posted by rache, Monday, 16 July 2018 1:28:20 AM
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Foxy,
What you apparently do not see is that it is the muslim culture that is the problem. Muslims are taught to hate infidels and Jews from the cradle. A good example of this is that picture of a woman with a babe in a pram, at the muslim riots in Sydney, with the babe holding a poster advocating beheading. The riots were about a video made in another country thousands of miles away. This is the way muslims are brought up, just to hate. There is no love and kindness in the muslim world, they act to every situation with violence and dominance. Alien cultures are impossible to change. We have turned a blind eye to muslim violence and riots, and to continued alien practices of underage marriage, FGM and polygamy, even rape after divorce, yet the culture does not change while we just hope the next generation will be better. No, the only way is to stop further entry of muslims, that will at least contain the problem.

By the way, police had reports of 60 gang rapes leading up to the year 2000. The courts dealt with a hand full so how many were involved. It seems there were many, many more. I believe only a few got severe sentences and some may even be out now.
Posted by Banjo, Monday, 16 July 2018 4:03:57 AM
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I know the view I put here will confront many hurt others but it needs to be aired in my opinion, yes the Islamic faith confronts some, but it is my view every faith could face the same charges, it is faith that divides humanity,each group thinks its God is the one true God,and if you truly look at it there are in existence many more Gods than the three most can name,people of faith, most of them, are kind and caring, no threat to any one,SOME in every faith, are not,read any book of faith, any faith,and you will find things we could never ever live with,this thread, any thread with the word Muslim in it, brings out fear, true honestly held, that the few not the majority, are a danger just maybe humanity will one day invent yet another God, one that unites us and warns in the next life we will be born in to the group we hated in this life
Posted by Belly, Monday, 16 July 2018 7:37:21 AM
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Trump. Trump. Trump. He has certainly put the lunatics on the streets of London. The fools holding up placards bearing every insult their tiny minds can conjure up are too stupid to see that the man doesn't give a damn what they think of him or what they call him. The spectacle of people who probably don't even have a job squeaking at him - a billionaire casually playing golf on a course he actually owns - is a huge joke on its own. Do these rabbits actually think they can influence the most powerful man in the world? Someone they cannot even vote against? They are too stupid to realise that floating a huge baby effigy of the president above Westminster actuall softens his image.

The poms would be much better focusing their infantile, puny tantrums. on their own idiot prime minister. If ever a country is being ruined by its leader, it is Britain.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 16 July 2018 10:11:14 AM
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yep a generation who dummy spits when they don't get their own way. Shows you what violence happens when kids are not disciplined as kids.
Posted by runner, Monday, 16 July 2018 10:31:44 AM
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Is Mise,

You stated that all the groups that I mentioned do
not follow the Koran?

That's precisely the point being made. It's hard to
tell what religions, if any, criminals do or do not
follow. As long as they still go to church,temple,
synagogue, or any place of worship - right?
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 16 July 2018 10:33:06 AM
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yep France wins the world cup and those who have been helped by France are now rioting and looting in the streets. Grateful bunch. No one could be as stupid as the socialist.
Posted by runner, Monday, 16 July 2018 10:36:47 AM
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This thread is titled 'Muslims and Rape', well here is one for some here to come to gripes with.

In about 2007, after complaints by muslim women the Howard government commissioned the Islamic Womens Welfare Council of Victoria to prepare a report on the complaints.

The islamic women prepared the report and presented it to the government in late 2007 or early 2008. However the Rudd government was now in offfice. With the best interests of the women they represented, the women issued a press statement that gave a brief of the report contents, on the day they presented it to government.

Among other matters, the report stated that some muslim men, after civil divorce, were presenting themselves at their former wives abode and demanded sex, claiming they were still married in muslim eyes.

This is completely contrary to Australian law and has to be deemed as rape. The simple fact is that these men were, or still are, holding our laws in utter contempt.

Apparently all hell broke loose in the muslim community and the womens website was shut down for some time and nothing more was heard of the report. The press reported on the fact that the report was presented.

The Rudd government never tabled the report, so officially it does not exist. It has been pigeon holed or shredded.

So ever since their arrival divorced muslim men have been getting away with the rape of former wives as I am not aware of one prosecution.
Posted by Banjo, Monday, 16 July 2018 10:37:00 AM
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So whose responsible for the law not being enforced?
Posted by Special Delivery, Monday, 16 July 2018 10:47:25 AM
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Special Delivery,
Police, state prosecutors and state governments are responsible.

As usual we turn a blind eye to law breaking by ethnics. Laws such as underage marriage, FGM, polygamy and now rape are ignored.
Posted by Banjo, Monday, 16 July 2018 11:15:00 AM
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Dear Banjo,

We have a problem of domestic violence in this country.
Many women have to deal with abusive partners and
ex-partners in their daily lives. Go to any police station -
and the officers could tell you stories to make your hair
curl. This is an ongoing problem and I don't think it
only involves one particular religion. It's a problem that
the law has to deal with on a daily basis. And it involves
more than just one culture or one religion. You seem to be
rather selective in your examples each time - perhaps you
need to march to a different drum just for a change?
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 16 July 2018 11:26:24 AM
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//France wins the world cup and those who have been helped by France are now rioting and looting in the streets.//

Rioting is a proud national tradition in France. Nothing the Frogs like more than a good old riot.

They're a weird mob but their food is nice.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Monday, 16 July 2018 11:27:00 AM
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//As usual we turn a blind eye to law breaking by ethnics.//

No you bloody don't. It's all you ever talk about. If one was to obtain all their information from the likes of you and some of the right-wing shock jocks and commentators out there, one would be led to the conclusion that Anglos never commit crimes.

Thankfully, other (more accurate) news sources are available:

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/5368851/judge-imposes-strict-orders-in-bid-to-tackle-hunter-bikie-turf-war/
Posted by Toni Lavis, Monday, 16 July 2018 11:45:09 AM
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The MSM is really going berserk, with a tale of 'Royal Snub for US president', with only the Queen doing her duty, albeit while “gritting her teeth” (they haven't said how they know she was grinding the royal gnashers; we have to believe them, of course.

“Prince Charles and Prince William refused to meet with Donald Trump when he visited Windsor castle last week”, we are told. “Charles and Will were vocal about their reluctance to meet with Trump, a source told The Times”. Who actually heard them 'vocalising'. This very reliable anonymous source?

And in contrast, of course, the Royals really loved the Obamas.

The barking mad Left media gets madder by the minute. The POTUS has always been powerful, but the current president has the power to turn people into raving lunatics. And he will continue to do so, bless him.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 16 July 2018 12:27:48 PM
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Carol Green from Oxford wrote in - The Guardian -

"The wonderful screaming orange blimp reminds me of
a chap called Trumpty Dumpty. He thought a wall was important.
As I recall, it didn't turn out too well for him."
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 16 July 2018 1:40:05 PM
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Rather pleased Foxy that blimp wears a nappy, but is it wasted? most of that by product comes from his mouth, having great fun with friend in Europe, ex union official he has come up in the world his Lady works with the UN and share my views and sense of humor
Posted by Belly, Monday, 16 July 2018 1:58:23 PM
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Dear Belly,

Apparently Trump has tweeted from Air Force One
on his way to Helsinki (to meet Putin) that if
Putin offered Trump the "Great City of Moscow"
as retribution for all the ills that Russia
has done in the past - Trump would say it's not
enough. He would also ask for St. Petersburg as
well.

Don't know whether we should laugh or cry.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 16 July 2018 2:07:49 PM
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Foxy, FYI, most people here do not fear Islam; what they don’t like is an ideology based upon hate and violence. The only fear is for the future of our people and country. Is it wrong to oppose people who will condemn hate and violence in some cases but not in others? As I said, for ALL Muslims, morals and ethics are conditional and selective, depending on who is doing or mandating hate and violence.

As to your link to an article by Medhi Hasan, http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-10/australia-shouldnt-live-in-fear-of-terror-attacks/8692928,his main point seems to be that Muslims are still few here and only a small “fraction of the Australian Muslim community” support terror.

How nice! How comforting! And when the numbers increase? And why is it that usually the terrorist, after the atrocity, is found to have no known radical links. Imagine that a people (Muslims) that follow a man (Mohammad) that proudly proclaimed “I am made victorious with terror” and a god (allah) that boasts of “casting terror into hearts of disbelievers” would commit acts of terror. Unimaginable!

By the way, this Hasan thinks that people should be sanctioned for dishonest, demonising writings about Muslims. Is that ok with you? Have I said any that is untrue about Muslims and Islam? What do you think would happen to me and other posters here if this were an Islamic society? Do you understand that most of us would be tortured, imprisoned or murder because of our opinions

Oh yes, in 2009 Hasan said "The kuffar, the disbelievers… who remain deaf and stubborn to the teachings of Islam, the rational message of the Koran; they are described in the Koran as a people of no intelligence … because they’re incapable of the intellectual effort it requires to shake off those blind prejudices… the Koran describes the atheists as cattle who grow the crops and do not stop and wonder about this world.”

So the man you quote, that fountain of wisdom, says that anybody that dislikes Islam is a stupid cow.

And you think Muslims are wonderful, and will not cause problems in the future?
Posted by kactuz, Monday, 16 July 2018 2:28:07 PM
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Foxy,
No, I will not dance to another tune because I think that high migration and multiculturalism are central to most of our social problems in Australia.

No ethnic problem you say. Try this one http://au.news.yahoo.com/exclusive-dozens-of-australian-child-brides-forced-into-illegal-marriages-35597902.html

This is about child marriage in NSW for a two year period. 34 aged 16-17, 12 aged 14-15, 7 aged 10-13, 4 aged under 10. Of these 51 were in Sydney and no religion is given but you can bet the vast majority are muslim. These are ONLY the reported ones with registered marriages, anyone guess as to the unregistered marriages and those taken overseas for marriage. That is what I term turning a blind eye. It is the same with FGM, except for NSW no state has prosecutions and the guilty were given 'home detention'. No data from hospitals on FGM so the blind eye is turned again. Refugees on sexual asualt charges have been dismissed on 'cultural grounds'.

Since both major political parties have colluded not to debate immigration issues, it is up to the public the raise these important matters. Where are those self important female politicians on the issues of child marriages (child abuse) and former husbands raping their former wives
Posted by Banjo, Monday, 16 July 2018 2:30:08 PM
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kactuz,

Please don't put words into my mouth.

I did not say Muslims are wonderful.

That is your interpretation of what you thought I said.

I spoke about fundamentalism, and what that entailed.
And tried to point out the fact that not all
Muslims are terrorists. I also have always stressed that
anyone who breaks our laws should
be punished appropriately according to our
laws.

I don't go for arguments that are rooted in generalisations
and so ignore the differences among individuals. Also I
don't know that much about the teachings of Islam - so I
am in no position to judge any other religion than my own.
And even that - I'm not an expert on.

You seem to be making judgements about people you don't really
know, as well as a religion that you probably don't really know.
You're going on the assumption that all Muslims share the
same supposed traits and you blame the majority for the
actions of a few. That I find unacceptable.
Stereotyping, scapegoating, does not interest me.
Sadly - We appear to be so far apart in our thoughts
on this matter that any further discussion would be
pointless.

Have a nice day.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 16 July 2018 3:34:47 PM
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Dear Banjo,

I understand your concern about child brides and FGM.
To help solve this problem we need a coordinated
national policy on how to assist the victims and of
course education is also the key.

The UK is trying
these sorts of programs.

FGM has been a crime in NSW
for decades and all our states and territories in
Australia have had similar laws which make it illegal
not only to subject a girl to either FGM or a child
marriage - but also to take her out of the country
to have these procedures. All of the Freedom of
Information requests
and reporting requests only show that this doesn't work.
Reporting to the police has also failed - and no charges
have been laid.

The best way to deal with this problem is - as I've stated,
we need a coordinated national policy on how to assist
victims. Hopefully with enough education of women - they
will begin to co-operate to prevent their daughters from
experiencing these illegal customs. Also as more females
get into Parliament such as Anne Aly - something may get
done. More publicity is needed on these issues - and
it would be great if people like Ed Husic, Anne Aly and
others were to raise these issues in our Parliament.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 16 July 2018 4:37:33 PM
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Foxy,
If I thought you were right about education being the way to go, to reduce child marriages, I would agree. But we have been educating groups for 24 years at great cost about FGM and the incidence appears to be rising. No FGM Aus estimates that there are 1100 girls at risk each year. So education has failed along with police reporting and the judiciary have all failed because of weak politicians.The issues of FGM and child marriages, as with cock fighting, can all be hidden easily and is why the cultural practices exist.

You mention the UK, well it is in a worse situation than us as they cannot get one FGM conviction but record far higher number of FGM victims. I am thankful that we have not, as yet, had muslim gangs grooming girls to become cheap prostitutes, but that may come.

It is with reluctance that I came to the conclusion that the only way to prevent further alien cultural practices is to stop the immigration of people from those groups that cause us grief and have contempt for our society and laws. This action will not lessen the problems but contain them.

I think there is one Imam in Victoria now charged with child marriage and it will be interesting to see that outcome. Weak politicians chasing the muslim vote is a huge problem for us, and apathy
Posted by Banjo, Monday, 16 July 2018 6:12:39 PM
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Good Evening Banjo,

Let me see if I understand you correctly.
You are concerned about FGM and child
brides and your answer to fix this problem
is to ban all Muslim immigration into our
country?

How is that going to help the victims?

BTW - FGM and child brides are not religious
practices. They are cultural practices and are found
mainly in parts of Africa and the Middle East.

For us to end female genital mutilation and child
brides we need a multi-sectoral approach including
education and the empowerment of women (including
mothers and grand-mothers) to enable them in
partnership with their communities, supported by
health professionals and child protection authorities,
under-pinned by legislation banning both FGM and child
brides.

Unlike the United Kingdom Australia has no national
integrated FGM or child bride prevention policy linking
health, education and community services.
This should be a priority. As should be - enabling women
mums and grans to form a compact of protection for their
daughters and grand-daughters - as a powerful way forward.

Banning Muslim immigration won't achieve anything.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 16 July 2018 6:52:10 PM
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I'm not sure if everyone understands the enormity, the absolutely huge size and scale of this.
The idea of education is a nonsense.
This will absolutely not get any traction what-so-ever.
It's too late.
Mohammad started it and the Imams have promoted it.
It has been the most successful act of grooming and creating a cult in the history of mankind.
If anyone seriously attempted to educate, they would have to start with the Imams.
HAH, good luck with that.
The followers of Islam mostly fear their peers.
I'm sure if those people could be assured of a safe and free life if they dropped Islam, they would.
Those of weak character and minds and lacking courage know no better and were easy targets to 'suck in'.
They will not relinquish Islam.
One does not have to know the whole story to get a 'feel' for something.
If Islam teaches to hate and kill the infidels, how on earth are we to interpret that any other way than it is promoted?
Unless someone can counter with an angle of fear if they continue worshiping Islam, maybe.
You see fear was the tool of choice through the ages.
'Put the fear of God in you'.
It is not possible to re-educate someone without an incentive.
Because the true believers are weak of mind and do not believe in themselves, which is a key factor in people turning to religion, it is difficult to sway such a powerful force.
As a comedian once asked a Muslim.
According to the Koran, when you die you will go to Allah and he will give you a dozen virgins.
Did Allah happen to mention if the virgins were male or female?
Posted by ALTRAV, Monday, 16 July 2018 7:54:00 PM
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Foxy,
Yes I am concerned about FGM and child marriage but there are other alien cultural aspects of muslim,such as their approach to matters with violence and their attitude of ownership of wives which shows up in the rape of former wives by former husbands.

Stopping immigration of muslims does not help the present victims but as I said contains the problems to the present level. It is also the newcomers that refresh the practices that are alien.

You have a right to your views on education but for 24 years it has failed to stop FGM. Why give muslim females more power as it is them that help decide who the child should marry and they promote and help hold the girls, with aunts, while they are mutilated.

There has been no indication that the UK policies have worked at all in eliminating alien muslim practices. The revelations of the grooming of school girls for prostitution indicates it is worse.
Posted by Banjo, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 12:02:31 AM
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A few years ago, before my spelling paddock, I became aware a mate was posting here, he still is,while I consider him a mate he may no longer think of me that way, and this thread and others like it are the reason, I share every concern on display here, but can never ever brand every Muslim evil,be honest, this thread was set as a trap, again well done! it trapped even me, have we the GUTS? to take the worst frome every faith? any faith? as we freely do here in relation to Islam? first Testament V Koran? Southern American hillbilly Churches V Trumps religious right? yes some Muslims are a very real problem! is any faith not? it is my view we in the west should get out of the middle east let them become dictatorships bad ones, but get out now and let them fix their own countries, but hate them?all of them?
Your God said *Let him who is without sin throw the first stone*
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 8:02:25 AM
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Belly,
firstly,I am not religous and don' take any notice of those who dislike muslims because of religion. I do not hate muslims but I object to their cultural practices and I do not think they can settle into our society. I think the first step is to stop allowing them entry, either as migrants or refugees. And I feel the same about other groups that we have allowed in that cause us grief.

The immigration is not just about benefits for foreign arrivals, we as the host nation should get benefits without allowing too much baggage from those coming. I would like to think that all immigrants feel gratitude and how lucky they are to be here. We do not have to put up with those that want to change us into something like they left.
Posted by Banjo, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 9:48:36 AM
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Dear Banjo,

The steps that have been suggested to try to fight the
practices of FGM and child marriages seem to be working
in the UK and globally. The link listed below explains
in more detail. These steps may seem insignificant in
the wide scale fight against these practices however
to do nothing is not an option and these steps just may
lead to a ripple effect of change.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/07/how-far-have-we-come-year-fight-against-fgm-and-child-marriage
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 11:14:57 AM
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Banjo an unpleasant truth, if you oppose it that is, well over 80 percent of us think alike , just the same things concern them and me, as you, BUT we have laws and every time they get caught they will face them, they? the few! an idiot, who happens to be a woman,faced court for? not standing up for the judge! even after pleading guilty the half wit did it again! those few, CLEARLY in the wrong country, set out to confront us but in the end do great damage to? the community they come from, let us focus on that few not a whole faith
BAN THE BURKA we will in time, it is used to show separation and control of women, ban it as an act Muslims can do to show they want to be part of our culture
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 12:42:03 PM
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It is short sighted to suggest that we need a 'conversation' and 'education' and think for one minute that any real change will come from these types of suggestions.
Firstly I hate the whole practice of FGM.
I understand the reason behind it, but obviously it generates mixed emotions.
As for the idea that any real change will ever be achieved is a pipe dream.
These practices are part of their religion and promoted by their religious leaders.
You WILL NOT change a religion.
Islam will not allow their followers to leave unless the followers are willing to make a run for it and live as far away as they can from other Islamic followers.
Then maybe.
These people are so few they cannot be collated.
And furthermore, any wonder why I come across as a cynic and so forth.
These reports and stats being thrown around cannot be verified so I take them more as propaganda in promoting a cause rather than actual and confirmed statistics.
No matter what the antagonists may wish, this one is a no-brainer.
Another very important fact to remember is, these practices are sanctioned in their country of origin.
We have no right to tell anyone outside Aus what to do.
It's also worth mentioning that the custom of marrying off young women was practiced, in some countries, when the girls began their menstrual cycle.
Which meant that they could fall pregnant, in which case it was socially more acceptable to be married if one fell pregnant.
As opposed to giving birth out of wedlock which was and is still considered draconian by the more civilised societies to this day.
Posted by ALTRAV, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 1:19:37 PM
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Belly, I think you'll find that most of the ones wearing the 'letter box' are ok with it.
Apparently there are still 'females' out there who don't appreciate being ogled and 'checked out'.
Go figure.
So it seems that they will not heel.
Where-as we have so many cultures who worship Allah or Islam that don't 'cover up', these are the more liberal cultures who would not be tolerated by the extremists or the religious police.
So we get these conflicts.
My beef is like most other people, which is;
Why should X get away with it, when I can get fined for doing the same thing, religion or not.
I am curious what 'special' changes they have made to accommodate these 'special' cases, that we are not privy to.
Can they still enter a bank?
Can they go into some govt buildings without uncovering their face?
If there have been measures put in place, how much is that costing us?
Then there was the one about Sikhs or those cultures wearing head wrapped with cloth.
They argued that it was part of their religion.
Did they get special dispensation for not having to wear a crash helmet?
You see these are some of the reason why multi-culturalism does not work.
It's bad enough that due to this pathetic crappy electoral system, half the population are disenfranchised and the other are attended to.
Multi-culturalism further frustrates an already pissed off public.
The do-gooders MUST understand some basic fundamentals;
This country cannot sustain any more population growth!
We do not have the resources.
Mainly water.
We do not have the work or jobs.
We have too many people looking for too few jobs currently and has been so for some years.
And finally we must go back to a more critical immigration policy.
We must be mature and not emotional about who comes here and who does not.
I have to admit that because Muslims are our most obvious (not the only) threat at the moment, it's common sense and prudent of the govt to stop all migration until further notice.
Posted by ALTRAV, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 3:40:04 PM
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Foxy,
One thing that is done in UK that we do not is collect accurate data.

No FGM Aus cannot get our polys interested in collecting data. It seems they do not want to know what the real situation is here. The other main thing is judicial support for our state education programs. We have had two successful prosecutions and the guilty were handed sentences of 'home detention' which is a joke. After years of saying how serious FGM is. which it is to the victims, the perpetrators don't even get a parking fine. The judges are employed by the state and should be told to get realistic.

Tanya Plibersek had oun of those talk feasts when last in office but nothing good came out of it. Just an expensive week in Canberra for selected delegates, the same as the one you linked to. Pru Goward, in NSW, was going to play merry hell about FGM also but fell over at the starting gate. I am quite disgusted with the non efforts of polys. When the FGM issue arose in the USA I thought the Yanks hand out serious penalties but they just seem to be mucking around as FGM is still not illegal in all states there. If we cannot eliminate FGM in Aus, what hope is there in Africa and the ME.

That news item about child marriages here did not surprize me as I know of a doctor that ran a medical clinic in SW Sydney who stated she could name 100 child marriages at any given time.

I do not see anything complicated about control of both issues if polys were serious about saving little girls. If I had my way, I would make it known that I would instigate medical checks annually on all 'at risk' girls and throw the book at the parents of any girls that had been done. Those that wanted to continue with this horrid cultural abuse would have to go elsewhere, or be in jail with their kids removed from their care. same sort of thing relative to child marriage.
Posted by Banjo, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 4:09:34 PM
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Dear Banjo,

There are plenty of explanations about the difficulties
involved in collecting stats on the web.

You can look them up for yourself.

For me this discussion has now run its course.

Have a nice evening.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 4:44:48 PM
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