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The Forum > General Discussion > Is freedom of speech being denied

Is freedom of speech being denied

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AJ,

Of course, IQ tests are not meaningless. Of course they accurately measure something, but not necessarily some genetically inherited intelligence, if that's what you're getting at.

Anyway, to get back to topic: Folau, no matter how intelligent he is (and i think he is), is entitled to his opinion like any of us. His opinion might 'offend' some people, homosexuals who believe in Hell in this case, but can any of us say that we've never expressed an opinion which may not have offended anybody ? What's the good of such mush ?

Surely, to have firm beliefs - and do any of us demand that people shouldn't have firm beliefs ? - means that you may offend at least somebody ? If my firm belief is that, for those on OLO who disagree with me, that they can kiss my hairy arse, I'm presuming that that deeply-informed opinion may offend some anonymous reader. But that's half the fun, even if somewhere there, I've committed either a logical fallacy or given impossible advice, except for those in SA.

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Thursday, 26 April 2018 9:12:34 AM
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Joe,

You appear to have missed my post at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=8228#256116.

Perhaps that was the moral of the story: that we tend to agree or disagree with people (or at least object to what they say) based on whether we see ourselves as being politically aligned with them, or at least being aligned with them on an issue that we view as more fundamental to the rest of our views?

OLO’s self-professed racist spouts the sort of nonsense I was spouting on an almost weekly basis when he’s posting regularly, and no one says boo. Yet when I do the same, suddenly it’s objectionable.

Or do we feel the need to object to racist talk on this particular occasion because Folau has said something that we like? After all, I can’t imagine too many people around here are up in arms about David Irving’s ban on entering the country, nor the prominent anti-vaxxers who want to tour. Where are our heroic right-wing defenders of free speech when holocaust deniers and anti-vaxxers need them?

Local anti-vaxxers find it almost impossible to secure a venue. Where's the outrage there? Are the owners of venues less obliged than Qantas to let those seeking some reciprocation to just say whatever they want? Does Folau's right to freedom of speech trump Qantas's right to express disapproval in the way they see fit? It's a little like Popper's paradox of tolerance, now that I think about it.

This debate is far more nuanced than anyone on OLO or in the media are treating it. Nothing is black-and-white. Not even a right a basic as freedom of speech.

Nope, I don't buy the ‘free speech’ angle at all. I think it's nothing more than disingenuous virtue signalling.
Posted by AJ Philips, Thursday, 26 April 2018 11:50:43 AM
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AJ,

You lost me again: why is it at all necessary to refer to Folau's 'race' or ethnic background when he expresses an opinion ? Surely it's the opinion we should be paying attention to ? I don't give a toss if he's right- or left-handed, or whatever, it's his viewpoint that counts: in other words, where do each of us stand in relation to what he said ? Since I don't believe in a heaven or a hell, I'm assuming that the only people who might get upset would be homosexuals who do. Presumably they have their opinions about where I might end up, but I'll get over that, I've got plenty of tissues.

To have an opinion is to risk having one which is different from somebody else's. Ergo, offence may be caused to both parties. Opinion and offence therefore go together, one follows from the other, at least in non-totalitarian societies. But should someone's career be destroyed by powerful business interests just because they say something with which some powerful person can take offence ? In the land of the fair go ? Or is that threat a major step in the direction of totalitarianism ?

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Thursday, 26 April 2018 1:05:53 PM
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Joe,

The longer you maintain the rage, the more you prove my point in my last post.

It's becoming increasingly obvious that when you say, "You lost me...", you had actually stopped reading my post at some crucial point. That can be a really foolish thing to do on OLO. Just ask ttbn.

Clearly, you've barely read a word of my last three posts. This is starting to look really funny. So, I'm going to leave this recipe for Anzac biscuits right here and see if you still give me the same silly response:

Preheat oven to 170°C. Place the flour, oats, sugar and coconut in a large bowl and stir to combine.

In a small saucepan place the golden syrup and butter and stir over low heat until the butter has fully melted. Mix the bicarb soda with 1 1/2 tablespoons water and add to the golden syrup mixture. It will bubble whilst you are stirring together so remove from the heat.

Pour into the dry ingredients and mix together until fully combined. Roll tablespoonfuls of mixture into balls and place on baking trays lined with non stick baking paper, pressing down on the tops to flatten slightly. Bake for 12 minutes or until golden brown.

I await your reply.
Posted by AJ Philips, Thursday, 26 April 2018 2:59:35 PM
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AJ,

Rage ? No, not at all. Simply a sense of regret that some people are still pig-ignorant and misunderstand and distort issues.

And I made Anzac biscuits a couple of weeks back. I usually put more oats and coconut in than the recipe recommends.

Any chance of sticking to topic ?

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Thursday, 26 April 2018 3:40:53 PM
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I hear ya there, Joe.

<<Rage ? No, not at all. Simply a sense of regret that some people are still pig-ignorant and misunderstand and distort issues.>>

But you need to express that regret to the relevant people. I haven’t seen you do that, and that was part of my point.

<<To have an opinion is to risk having one which is different from somebody else's.>>

Agreed. To think, you must be able to risk offending people. But if we say something offensive enough - especially when we have chosen to live a life in the public eye - then we need to accept that there may be social consequences to that.

There is no law against what Folau said, and he has not been dragged off before the courts for saying it. He’s had his freedom of speech, now everyone else is having theirs.

<<But should someone's career be destroyed by powerful business interests just because they say something with which some powerful person can take offence ?>>

Your language is a little on the emotive side there, I think. If Qantas’s backlash is JUST the result of a powerful person taking offence, then Folau's career is not being destroyed by “powerful business interests”, because one person’s offence is not a business interest.

Anyway, do you think that Alan Joyce was the only one in Qantas who took offence to the comments? You don’t think that the Board agreed that it might not be in best interests of the company to continue their sponsorship, given how the general public feel about homophobia?

Personally, I think it’s overkill to pull sponsorship just because of one offensive comment from one imbecile. My biggest concern is the hyperbole and hypocrisy of the cries that freedom of speech is under attack. If Folau were to have denied the Holocaust, no one would care if Rugby Australia fired him and sponsors threatened to sever ties. The talk of free speech is just homophobia in disguise.
Posted by AJ Philips, Thursday, 26 April 2018 5:05:59 PM
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