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The Forum > General Discussion > ANZAC Day - What does it mean to you, and your Families?

ANZAC Day - What does it mean to you, and your Families?

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Hi there DAVID F...

What can I possible add to what you've said. I've always known that you've got an enormous intellect; from religious history; science & mathematics; and history in it's broadest dimension. I always thought the first World War was started by the assassination of the Arch Duke, Franz FERDINAND, the heir to the Habsburg throne, in 1914? Obviously I'm in error.

Thank you so much David F for once again enriching this topic with your terrific scholarship, I only wish I had just an ounce of your knowledge, if so, who knows what I might have achieved instead of ending up being an unremarkable copper.

Hi there PAUL 1405...

I'm very glad you decided to add your thoughts on ANZAC Day. I've known for some time that you've always been a pacifist and I respect your position. Though in times past I didn't always, as you well know. I've looked on the likes of MR Simon TOWNSAND a well known conscience objector to the Vietnam War, as a case of cowardice, but now I'm not so sure?

I do acknowledge you harbour no particular censure for the soldiers, sailors, & airmen themselves for the wars, but those at the top who tend to start them, and than fan the fires in order to keep them going.

And I reckon you're right in some measure ANZAC Day should also include the 'innocent lives' of our various enemies, but NOT including those who perpetuated War Crimes like the NAZI's and some from the Japanese Imperial Forces who ran the POW Camps.

I recall going through the remains of one of our Claymore ambushes, pulling out a small dirt encrusted plastic 'wallet' affair with a tiny 2" X 2" B & W photo of an asian group, ostensibly the blokes family, who knows? I suppose he was just like us, a grunt destined to fight in a very dirty war and as such entirely innocent of the bigger plans of Uncle Ho.

Thanks for your thoughts PAUL1405.
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 6 April 2018 11:12:02 AM
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o sung wu,

Unlike you, I cannot 'respect' pacifists who know full well that they will be protected by people who are prepared to fight for freedom and democracy. Nobody in their right mind wants to be killed or to kill other people. But, to refuse to aid in the protection of what you enjoy along with everybody else is totally unacceptable and cowardly. Stretcher-bearing and all the others tasks given to cowards in the past doesn't take away the foul taste these people put in ones mouth. It's fortunate that future wars are unlikely to be waged by volunteers.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 6 April 2018 12:51:10 PM
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ttbn,

A lot depends on which war it is, WWII, I'd agree; the Korean War, was volunteers only in Australia so doesn't apply but the Vietnam War threatened no one in Australia and my sympathies were with anyone who objected to having their lives thrown into turmoil by a lottery.

I remember asking the Secretary of a particular Liberal Party branch what he was suffering from, he gave me a blank look and said that he wasn't suffering from anything.
I then asked him why he hadn't volunteered for Vietnam?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 6 April 2018 1:26:01 PM
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<<Nobody in their right mind wants to be killed or to kill other people. But, to refuse to aid in the protection of what you enjoy along with everybody else is totally unacceptable and cowardly.>>

So ttbn, do you support foreign aid coming from Australian taxpayers going to other countries?

Aid will total (in terms of taxpayer dollars) $4.01 billion in mid-2018 and remain static until indexation resumes in 2021/2022.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/temporary-freeze-on-foreign-aid-from-2018
Posted by NathanJ, Friday, 6 April 2018 1:32:52 PM
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Hi there TTBN...

I was once a full subscriber to what you've said in your latest Post TTBN, when I was made to realise there are legitimate conscience objectors to war in our society. And far be it for me to say they're cowardly. In fact on the face of it, I think it would take quite a brave individual to accept all the criticism that's made about them, both to their faces and behind their backs. I'm no longer so sure about it these days. It took a pretty brave soul, to willing face down a month or two in; 1 MCE at Holsworthy, rather than do their National Service.

Such an individual was Simon Townsend, a former TV Star, who produced many Children's programmes until he fell foul of the Conscription Board in the late 1960's. He was publicly shamed and carted off to 1 MCE by the Provost Corps (you'd likely remember the incident) it was front page news in most Newspapers. Whilst it was true, he was released after about 48 hours (and from his photo's, he looked positively dreadful) it's a tough place to do gaol, nothing like being in Long Bay, nothing like it at all.

Funny story I will share with you - my Mother received this official looking letter that was address to me, which she promptly opened. It asked why I'd not registered for National Service? She contacted them immediately, and politely informed them, I'm sure my Son would gladly do his duty, but he's currently in Malaya serving with the military! I was with the ARA and was serving over there, prior to my deployment to South Vietnam. Obviously they got their records mixed up I'd say?
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 6 April 2018 2:37:03 PM
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Dear o sung wu,

WW1 was triggered by the assassination of Franz Ferdinand, but the assassination would not have triggered the war had the nations not been ready for war. You are not in error.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents points to commercial aircraft shot down. These incidents could have triggered wars, but they did not because the nations whose aircraft were shot down did not want war. In like manner the assassination of the archduke would not have triggered WW1 had the nations involved not been itching for war. Jenkins’ book examines one of the forces that pushed the nations into war. Another reason for WW1 was that Germany wished to expand its own relatively small overseas empire by taking over all or a part of the vast overseas empires of the British and French.

An insight can be gained by reading Smedley-Butler’s book online.

https://archive.org/stream/WarIsARacket/WarIsARacket_djvu.txt
Posted by david f, Friday, 6 April 2018 2:42:41 PM
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