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Hijab

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HIJAB isn't just what you are wearing but it also what you are doing and what are you saying..!One of the biggest misconceptions that even Muslim women face today is the idea that HIJAB means to cover one's head. Real HIJAB means being modest in the way we look, dress, talk, behave around others and even treat others. Think again! We can only then fulfil our duty towards HIJAB once we combine all these aspect together.

Now, after the Muslims women are involving more and more in the society, those people are trying to get them back to the ghettos by banning them from wearing the Hijab/Burqa…And the other one who were saying that: Men are imposing the Hijab/Burqa to those women and are covering that by saying: it’s her choice. This argument is simply ridiculous, it seems that she doesn't want to hear that someone wear it because of their spiritual journey, she definitely wants them to be oppressed. And the French guy who were saying: We are banning it because of the dignity of the woman and gender equality. Since when the equality is used to restrict the liberty of free choices. Those people need to be reminded that this law is totally opposed to the universal human rights.

I'm uncomfortable hearing about these recent bans, because I fear it's the beginning of a trend which could lead to a blanket ban on all face and head coverings. It seems to me that removes as much choice as being forced to wear them does, where that applies. Its political correctness gone mad. Same stock as the heather and safety Nazis. The state is now telling what to, and what not to wear. Madness. My point is that there is no legal requirement to remove facial coverings in public, which people are permitted to wear them. The simple fact is that some people are threatened by veils.
IA
Posted by Iftikhar, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 1:32:29 AM
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"The state is now telling what to, and what not to wear. Madness. My point is that there..."

I agree entirely, the State has no right to dictate dress.

Full frontal anyone?
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 10:32:33 AM
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If governments can tell people not to wear motor bike helmets in certain areas, and 98% of Australians don't cover up in public, they can indeed tell people not to wear hijabs. It's just that they don't have the guts in Australia to do that, unlike even France, the Leftiest, wettest country in the world.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 12:20:49 PM
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Iftikhar, my chosen 'religion' is "motorcycling" which requires me to wear a helmet - if I wish to have a snowballs chance in Hell of surviving, (it is a legal requirement also) - unless I have a valid medical exemption for not wearing one. When I get my license, the photographs I am required (by law) to have on that license insists that I remove my helmet, it is an identity document for various legal purposes and establishes that the face under the helmet is the one on the identity document, validating at the same time to a statutory officer (police, Motor Registry etc) that I am allowed by the laws of that state/territory to operate the class(es) of vehicle on the license.

When I go into a bank, bottle shop, service station etc I am asked to remove the same helmet (no that is not a legal requirement) as a 'condition of entry'. I have on some occasions challenged the operator/attendant by lifting the chin part of the helmet to reveal my face, or in some instances having to remove the helmet completely.

This is an affront to my chosen religion also, but is it able to be challenged in a court of law ?

I think we need to amend the laws surrounding 'conditions of entry' into Australia so that religious exemptions are negated in the case of identifying people, otherwise the poor folks of Border Farce & Customs at every point of entry into Australia will be overwhelmed whilst being alert but not alarmed at every motorcycle helmet they see arriving.
Posted by Albie Manton in Darwin, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 12:21:21 PM
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Young girls wear the headscarf a symbol of submission to God. A symbol of piety and modesty. Islam does not require a girl to wear the hijab until she attains the age of puberty however some girls choose to wear it before because they would like to practice wearing it. They may also choose to wear it because their older sisters/mother/aunties wear it and because they look up to them. Just as many young girls have an interest in makeup or dressing in a particular way because of their family members and role models that they look up to.

I have a friend who has been teaching in a state school with majority of Muslim children and we discussed this issue. One thing that stood out for me was an observation that she made. She said that she realised girls wearing the hijab were doing better academically than girls that weren't, and they were also better disciplined. Statistically girls were doing much better than the boys at the school, but it was the girls that wore the hijab that were getting the highest marks. It's something interesting that we all have to try and understand.

Islam is a religion of modesty, in the way we talk, dress, interact, hold ourselves etc. We wear the headscarf only as part of retaining that modesty. It is a sign of our faith; that we submit to God, and to call this ‘sexualising of young girls’ is outrageous and disrespectful of our belief. To wear short skirts and crap tops is not seen as sexualising young girls but to cover yourself is? It seems like something bigger is at play.
Posted by Iftikhar, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 9:37:24 PM
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In 1976, when 15yrs old I was selected from some 25,000 applicants, along with 247 other young men to attend the Army Apprentices School. The day after my 16th birthday on the 13th January 1977, I signed up for service to my Queen & country and to learn a trade. We also were "academically" superior to the 24,753 other school boys who applied in 1976. We too wore a certain cut of clothing - it is called the uniform of the country you serve and we were very proud to have done so. Some 41 years later as I write this, there are some of my classmates in that uniform who are still serving their country (Australia).

We were (are still) honoured to have been selected over so many others, & we learnt discipline and we certainly respected the laws of our country, the Army in which we served and those whom we served. We certainly didn't go around asking for special dispensations for who we were, or because we wore a different code of dress than everyone else.

It was a sign of my faith that I attended every Sunday service as part of my Character Training and there I was required to wear another uniform we called "Poof Dress" because it looked rather formal, & required ironing before a parade and after this the padre's (or if you like) the "imam's approval" to attended his religious instruction sessions.

Can I ask you Iftikhar, what have you done for this country other than complain about how you are being unfairly treated ?

Like me, there are many other people who are fed up to the back teeth with hearing about how hard done by others are they are because they wear a rainbow scarf, or a burka, or a hijab, or a purple beanie for that matter. So for goodness sake get over yourselves.
Posted by Albie Manton in Darwin, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 10:23:40 PM
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Islam does not require women to wear the hijab. It is Muslim males who can't keep a woman who want them covered up.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 10:40:23 PM
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Living in the west, the hijab has become a potent indicator of identity with many non-Muslims viewing it as a political statement. However, it is pertinent to note that the hijab is, first and foremost, an act of worship that women engage in, and an act undertaken to seek the pleasure of one’s Lord.

The definition of a hijab is fiercely contested by many Muslims, and unfortunately most of those who engage in the topic are unaware that it is very much defined by Islamic law, the Sharia, and not cultural habits or one’s idea of what modesty is, or should be.

In discussing the hijab, Islamic jurists have stipulated a number of conditions for it to be a hijab in the Islamic sense. In brief, these conditions are that one’s clothing must cover the entire body in a way that the shape of the body is not apparent and the material must not be so thin that one can see through it. Clothing should not resemble that which is specific to men nor the disbelievers. It should not be attractive to men, nor should women be perfumed in public. The main aim of hijab is to stop fitnah; females who are attractive by nature attract the gaze of males which then leads to other greater sins such as fornication and adultery. Allah commanded women neither to display their adornment nor to display any form of behaviour that might attract the attention of men.
IA
http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
Posted by Iftikhar, Thursday, 18 January 2018 12:35:20 AM
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To Iftikhar.

You've said that the Hijab is to keep women from being attractive, as an act of legal modesty. However outside of Islam the hijab is often seen as part of obedience to an oppressive religion against women. Or in conjuction to a violent religion in general. Enough news stories have shown women being killed by their brothers or their fathers because they were raped. Some news have show Islamic women trying to get an education and go to school, but instead get killed in the bus leading to the school. Other stories concern with a lack of respect and a lack of honor towards women. Even to not allow a woman to be employed on their own so to be able to be empowered at least that much. So do not be surprised if the hijab is not supported. It is seen as a continuation of oppression against women. Taking away even one more thing about them for them to be proud of in themselves.

Take this criticism and know the battle you have. Because it is not just about the hijab. It is about Islam actually being a religion of peace, instead of what it's becoming more and more known for. A religion of violence and bombings, and a religion of oppression and corruption.

If you can cause Islam to be peaceful then no one will care if the hijab is worn or not. Because it will not be known for the violence and oppression it is known for today. In the mean time understand that people have reasons to stand against even the hijab. And those are valid enough reasons to acknowledge.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Thursday, 18 January 2018 3:51:03 AM
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Just as you can't wear a motor cycle helmet in your passport photo, you can't wear any kind of face covering, when visibility is required.

Religion, what a pathetic pursuit by man. Like all religions Islam is male dominated and controlled, as is Christianity, how many women have been Pope?

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nigel-barber/female-clergy_b_1738954.html
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 18 January 2018 4:42:29 AM
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According to the Holy Quran, all children are born Muslims, it is their parents who make them Jew, Christian or others. This is one of the many reasons why now western peoples are reverting to Islam on their own free will. Through out the history, Muslims never forced non-Muslims to accept Islam. This is the main reason why Muslims lost Spain and India.

The beauty of Islam is that it is a religion which appeals to common sense. There is no blind belief or dogmatism in Islam. The fundamentals of Islam are simple, straightforward and easy to understand.

If Islam is so bad, then why is it the WORLD’S FASTEST GROWING RELIGION! It is also one of the youngest religions. However no matter how hard everyone tries to give Islam a bad name, it will be twice as more populated. So let’s get straight to the point yeah?, Basically Islam is the most hated religion I don’t know why hmm maybe because it is also the most fastest growing religion and 2nd largest but no one will be able to stop this religion from growing.

I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him – the wonderful man and in my opinion for from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.” [G.B. Shaw, THE GENUINE ISLAM, Vol. 1, No. 81936.]
IA
http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
Posted by Iftikhar, Thursday, 18 January 2018 6:58:44 AM
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[From: The Religion of Peace.com]...."The Quran contains at least 109 verses that speak of war with nonbelievers, usually on the basis of their status as non-Muslims. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter."

When I think of a 'peaceful religion'. Is it Sufi, Shi'ite or Sunni we should all bow our heads to Iftikhar ?

Let's visit the UN for a moment: [from Wiki] The International Bill of Human Rights was the name given to UN General Assembly Resolution 217 (III) and two international treaties established by the United Nations. It consists of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (adopted in 1948), the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR, 1966) with its two Optional Protocols and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR, 1966). The two covenants entered into force in 1976, after a sufficient number of countries had ratified them.

Yes we'll all quietly wait for the day of domination while you breed us out of Christianity.

[From: Snopes] (Muslim Demographics)...the birthrates of Muslim women in Europe — and around the world — have been falling significantly for some time.Sharp reductions in fertility among Muslim immigrants reflect important cultural shifts, which include universal female education, rising living standards, the inculcation of local mores, and widespread availability of contraception. Broadly speaking, birthrates among immigrants tend to rise or fall to the local statistical norm within two generations.

The decline of Muslim birthrates is a global phenomenon. Most analysts have focused on the remarkably high proportion of people under age 25 in the Arab countries, which has inspired some crude forecasts about what this implies for the future. Yet recent UN data suggest that Arab birthrates are falling fast, and that the number of births among women under the age of 20 is dropping even more sharply.
Posted by Albie Manton in Darwin, Thursday, 18 January 2018 8:54:13 AM
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" Basically Islam is the most hated religion". Yes. You've got something right at last. It is the 'fastest growing religion' because you breed like rabbits.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 18 January 2018 8:54:27 AM
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Iftikhah,
I have a question which always puzzles me.
Why does a womans hair so dramatically affect muslim men but not
have the same affect on other men ?
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 18 January 2018 3:44:57 PM
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Iftikhar, Yes, Why is it that only women that need to be modest in all aspects of life? Muslim many Men by experience are sexual perverts not able to repress their sexual lusts. That is why they need four wives and 40 sex slaves, and see non Muslim women as opportunity for rape. They cannot treat all woman as equal and deserving respect. Just because their religious poo-bar gave them such an example they must follow.
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 18 January 2018 5:06:52 PM
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Jesus said to turn the other cheek, to not return evil for evil. But instead conquor it by doing good. It is unfortunate that the history of Christianity hasn't always followed this teaching. But what teachings of Mohamad can compare?

I have heard that there are teachings to lie to non-believers in order to passify them or in order to convert them. I have heard there are teachings to murder to anyone who was Muslim but converted from it to something else. (Which is a scary thought if you count everyone Muslim from birth. It means open murder to anyone who isn't Muslim). The things I've heard about the Quran or the Hadath teaching to kill the infiel and the nonbeliever.

Are these all true? If they are then just as resonable to be sad that Christians aren't following the teachings they are given, it becomes even more so horrific to consider those who follow Mohamad's teachings and kill without a guilty conscience.

So I say it again. Iftikhar, if it matters to you that Islam is the religion is of peace, then please share how it is peaceful. Or how according to Mohamad's teachings that faithful Muslims should not kill, should not stage bombs to set off in a crowded place only to then wait at the exits and shoot even more people.

There is a violent problem within Islam. If it can be solved by your own teachings, then share those insights. We need to stop this cancer growing within your faith. One way or another. If you know the teachings to correct those who act like murderous gangs, share them. Perhaps with both Muslim and non-Muslim outcry, less people will flock to butchers and craftsmen of murder.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Thursday, 18 January 2018 7:22:34 PM
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That children are born Muslim is a brainwashed lie and later convert to Judaism or Christianity. Religion is a system of discipline thought and one is not born with this discipline. If God wanted women to be completely covered then their birth as a girl would not have them naked, or be different to that of a boys naked birth. It is a religious law enforced by men. Note what happened to Iran under Ayatollah Khomeini as he enforced the wearing of the Burka compared to the peoples desire today to be free from such nonsense.
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 18 January 2018 7:57:43 PM
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Now come on you bunch of Islamaphobes, fancy asking awkward questions
like that and expecting an answer.
If you were in Canada or the UK and asked questions like that you could be prosecuted.

Pardon if I am wrong but I do not think we will hear from Istikhar again.
I have no experience in engaging in discussion with Muslims but from
what I have read they do not engage in discussions with unbelievers such as you lot.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 18 January 2018 9:26:22 PM
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A "fundamental" Muslim is one who has perfect knowledge of what Islam wants and follows it absolutely. To say a Muslim can be fundamental and go around murdering and raping and oppressing is an utter paradox, for nowhere in the Qur'an is this allowed. It is explicitly not allowed. The murdering, raping oppressing "Muslim" therefore is a moderate, and as he doesn't follow the objective will of the God he believes in, he is possibly not even a Muslim at all. If you sincerely want to know what attracts them to Islam, maybe start by reading the Quran. I have seen tons of jihadi propaganda and NEVER have they said they want to kill the infidel, simply because they were not Muslim. The media pushes this rumour but I have yet to see it being said by the Muslims.

Ottomans spread their rein not by subjugating people of Bulgaria, Greece and Austria to become Muslims, they never forced Jews to adopt their culture (in your words) and their rules lasted for more than 500 years. Similar culture of tolerance and mutual existence prevailed in Muslim Spain for centuries. Don't forget that Mehmet 2nd and Suleiman the magnificent (the great lawyer or Qanooni in Turkish) embedded Islam in every sphere of public and private life (exceptions are off course there).

The Koran is the smallest of the three books, the Trilogy. It is only 16% of the Trilogy text . This means that the Sunna is 84% of the word content of Islam’s sacred texts. This statistic alone has large implications. Most of the Islamic doctrine is about Mohammed, not Allah. The Koran says 91 different times that Mohammed is the perfect pattern of life. It is much more important to know Mohammed than the Koran. This is very good news. It is easy to understand a biography about a man. To know and understand Islam, and you should, learn about Mohammed.
Posted by Iftikhar, Thursday, 18 January 2018 9:59:17 PM
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Iftikhar, you have been asked some questions. Will you answer them ?
Do you deny the three options given to conquered people ?
Submit to Islam, pay the Jizya or die ?
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 18 January 2018 10:08:12 PM
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To Iftikhar,

Let me say it a different way. If it is not the true Muslim who commits these crimes, then what can be quoted to correct them in their own faith. After all, they think they are Muslim. Is there a sura or a section of verses to say to not kill on oppurtunity of large celibration A? In oppurtunity of crowded places. If so then let us know them. Let at least that much of Islam be known so non-Muslims can teach it too.

I don't care if it is a true Muslim or a fake one who commits these crimes. I figure both think they are true, but even that is a lesser concern. What is a concern is my worry on New Years Eve. Knowing that large crowds around the world are gathering to celibration the new year. Hoping that no Islamic terrorist will kill in these crowds, but thinking they will. Thankful the broadcast of the New Years went well, and googling if there was any terrorist attack in other countries. My worry is that an attack will occure on Christmas, or Easter. For the statement of hatred that is in these people. I fear they will have no day, no night that is sacred from murder, because of how they have killed even their own who were praying in a mosque. A horrible slaughter in Egypt. Or the same kind of slaughter done to Christian churches.

Do you not see? It does not matter if they are real or not. They believe they are. there is something in Islamic recruitment, or Islamic teachers that turn people into murderous criminals. If there is a teaching to correct this then share it. It can be used to kill this cancer from spreading and infecting more people to kill while think they are faithfully fighting for God.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Friday, 19 January 2018 3:12:12 AM
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The following excerpt was apparently sent to parents of children at a school in Maryborough (Qld) after requests to remove pork products from the school canteen menu. Circa 2015.

For Muslims who disagree with secularism and do not feel comfortable in Australia, there are 57 beautiful Muslim countries in the world, most of them under-populated and ready to receive them with open halal arms in accordance with Sharia.

If you left your country for Australia, and not for other Muslim countries, it is because you have considered that life is better in Australia than elsewhere. We will not let you drag Australia down to the level of those 57 countries.

Ask yourself this question - just once: "Why is it better here in Australia than where you came from?"

A canteen with pork on the menu is not the problem – it is part of the answer.

If you came to Australia with the idea that you will displace us with your prolific propagation and eventually take over the country, you should pack up and go back to the country you came from. We have no room here for you or your ideology.

Maybe in the latte-quaffing quarters of Lygon St, Melbourne, Oxford St, Paddington and Cullen Bay, Darwin your touchy feely politically correct mates may sit down over a double shot with skinny milk and agree with you Iftikhar. But sorry to tell you the majority of Australian around this country will resonate with what the school principal wrote above.

I wonder when Australians collectively will have had enough and say so to their elected members?

Maybe a Get Up campaign might be a better way for you to go Iftikhar, or perhaps a "plebiscite" ?
Posted by Albie Manton in Darwin, Friday, 19 January 2018 9:19:34 AM
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"Hijab isn't just what you are wearing, but it is also what you are doing and what you are saying".
Have a think about what Muslims are saying about "unbelievers"; about how they "are lower than the animals", "unbelief is worse than murder"etc. Much of this malignant language comes direct from their holy books. A recently published analysis of the Koran revealed that 61 percent of it was derogatory statements etc about unbelievers and how evil they are.
If hijab is about what you are doing, then think about what Muslims around the world are doing today.There are Muslims practicing slavery in the world right now, but that is ok because it is ordained in the Koran. It was village Muslim women who trumped up the charges against Asia Bibi in Pakistan, she is still in jail for taking a drink from the same water container as those other Muslim "neighbours".It was a vigilante mob of Muslim "neighbours" that recently kicked in the door of a house in Indonesia, because they thought that the two men who lived there 'just might' be engaging in homosexual activity. Indonesians also recently deposed a Christian governor of one of their provinces on trumped up charges of blasphemy, but really because Muslims should not have to tolerate "being ruled by someone who is not a Muslim".
Islam has an openly stated objective of taking over the whole world. Well I am one you will have to kill, because I will never convert, nor will I pay your Jizyah tax and "feel myself subjugated and subdued" as the Koran puts it.
To get back to the hijab itself, what is really the issue is Muslim disrespect for Australian law because it is not Sharia law. It is a legitimate requirement in various situations that facial identification is required.
Iftikhar, you should stop using the hijab issue as a means to feel oppressed, you could be unlucky enough to be a woman living in a Muslim state.
Posted by MyOwnMan, Friday, 19 January 2018 9:33:15 AM
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how crazy are religions;

1. The Grishneshwar Temple in India throws new born babies off a 50 ft high tower to be caught in sheets by men waiting below. Bad luck if the sheets are in the wash.

2. In Tibet some dead persons are dismembered and fed to the birds. Make a change from canary seed.

3. The Aghori in India go one step further and eat the dead corps. with or without sauce.

4. The Maradonian Church in Argentina prays to the one true god, the soccer god Diego Maradona. They claim to have 80,000 followers in 60 countries Makes a change from praying to the god Pele.

5. The Happy Science religion of Japan, claims over 12 million devotes believe the only use of science should be to make people happy. They believe they can channel the spirits of Muhammad, Christ, Buddha and Confucius. They must put laughing gas to great use.

6. So the mainstream don't feel left out, and to make you feel sick; In medieval times it was considered saintly, and an act of extreme holiness, if a woman, licked the pus from the wounds, and ate the scabs of lepers. It did not apply to those on a low cholesterol diet.

7. Self-flagellation began as a form of penance by radicals in the Catholic Church: zealots would lash themselves in public as a demonstration of piety. In the 13th and 14th century, great processions – some with 10,000 participants – passed through cities with crosses and banners, beating themselves with leather thongs while chanting hymns and calling forth other to do likewise. the practice continues today, but normally in private. I assume at the end of the procession they all stopped for a another fun time get together with a quite beer and a BBQ in a local park.

8. Then there is the Easter ritual by Filipino Catholics of nailing young men to crosses. Also it was believed Jesus would return, so they often named their first born male child Jesus. You never know.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 19 January 2018 10:23:27 AM
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We have had a few of these Muslim provocateurs here from time. They usually run out of puff and disappear up their own backsides when they find out that the average 'infidel' knows more about their disgusting cult than they do.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 19 January 2018 11:16:11 AM
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Notice he never answered anybody. They don't really want to get down
to the nitty gritty. They do not want to get into an exchange of argument.
They only want to point their forefinger at you and preach to you.

I think because of their mental handicaps such exchanges are difficult.
They seem to rely on previously published texts.
Did you notice the perfect English and grammar. None of us can dash
of a such perfect a post. I know when I write something here I have
to read it and edit it several times and still miss errors.
Posted by Bazz, Friday, 19 January 2018 12:17:19 PM
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How crazy r atheist. They encourage immorality and then tear apart the unborn. And then they judge other religions. What warped consiences.
Posted by runner, Friday, 19 January 2018 1:08:35 PM
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Dear Paul,

How crazy people can be: forcing themselves to get up tired in the morning, enter tin boxes, driving them into heavy traffic following behind other similar tin boxes, to arrive at some meaningless office to spend their day slaving to serve the ego of some boss, then enter that tin box again in the evening, doing the same, day after day, only so they can buy more gadgets and watch the lights flicker on and off plastic screens late into the night, to be tired again in the morning. Subsequently, they produce children, whom they claim to love, but send them for a minimum of 12 years into prisons where they are trained to do the same and have the same miserable existence.

What's worse: being thrown in the air down 9-15 meters to fall on a trampoline, emerging whole and sound, something for which many kids are eager to visit the luna-park, or to be thrown in a school-system to emerge years later scarred and crumpled?

Feeding no-longer-needed bodies to birds, is probably the kindest and most rational thing to do with that waste. Taking up fertile and precious land to house corpses is crazy, while as a Greens-supporter, I wouldn't think that you like the idea of producing and releasing into the atmosphere more CO2 in order to turn corpses into ashes.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 19 January 2018 5:55:08 PM
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We're not that crazy Runner that we would lick pus and eat scabs off lepers. See, there was a use for women in the Christian Church after all, as pus sucking scab eaters. Runner you need a bit more of that self flagellation it would do wonders for your miserable disposition.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 19 January 2018 8:17:28 PM
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I have read the Koran twice, once in two English versions. Obviously written by a man with hatred for those who did not follow his primitive 7th century Arab ideas. It makes no contribution to civilized living, inspires murder of Kafir, rape of non Muslim women as sex slaves, marriage [paedophilia] of young Muslim children, beating of one's wife till she submits, tax of non Muslims, food tax [halal] for Muslim projects. It implies that God only speaks Arabic, that he cannot speak clearly in other languages. All this is written in the Koran
Posted by Josephus, Friday, 19 January 2018 9:37:18 PM
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It is a well-known fact that several religious texts forbid the eating of pork. According to Leviticus, the third book of Judaism’s Torah and Christianity’s Old Testament, pork is an “unclean” meat since pigs do not “chew the cud.” Meanwhile, the eating of pork is condemned no less than four times in the Qur’an of Islam. While no direct reason is given for this condemnation, many Muslims believe that it is because pigs are disease-ridden animals.

The Religious Texts Are Correct

Though science and religion rarely share a similar perspective, there are many scientifically-valid reasons for this religious condemnation of pork. Pigs really are dirty, unclean animals that eat almost anything, including rotten food, urine, faeces, maggot-infested carcasses, and even cancerous growths. That is the nature of the scavenger, and being raised on an organic, sustainable farm will not change that nature.

This unpleasant diet wouldn’t necessarily be a problem for humans if pigs had a digestive system that effectively removed the toxins from their bodies, but therein lies the problem: They don’t. Unlike ruminant animals such as cows, sheep, and goats, which can take up to 24 hours to digest their vegetarian food, pigs digest their foul food within a mere four hours. This is not nearly long enough to remove excess toxins, so those toxins are stored within the fat cells and organs of the pig itself. Worse still, pigs do not have sweat glands (which are important agents for detoxification), further compounding their toxic load.

Consequently, pigs are walking vessels of parasites, viruses, and other destructive organisms. A few of the many organisms that pork can transmit to humans include:

Taenia solium – An intestinal parasite that can cause cysticercosis (tissue infection) and loss of appetite.

Menangle virus – An unpleasant virus that can cause fever, rashes, chills, sweating, and headaches for between 10 and 14 days.

Trichinella – A parasitic roundworm that can cause fever, malaise, edema, and myalgia.

Still want to eat that organic bacon?
Posted by Iftikhar, Saturday, 20 January 2018 12:13:35 AM
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Istikhar, the ban on pig meat was well founded in early times.
However about 500 BC the Chinese found the answer in animal husbandry
and were able to remove the parasites etc.
This information was propagated westward to the Middle East and Europe
over a period of time.
However the ban on pig meat had become religious in the Middle East
and could not be changed.

Is it true that some Islamic groups still believe the earth is flat ?
There does seem to be a strong anti-science thread running through Islam.
Posted by Bazz, Saturday, 20 January 2018 8:18:57 AM
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I do not know what Iftikhar believes pigs are fed today, today farmed pigs are one of the cleanest animals; cleaner than cattle, sheep and goats that graze in open paddocks. If he is talking about bush pigs they can be unclean, but stall pigs must be kept in hygienic environment and fed quality grain and fresh water. I prefer to eat pork, ham, bacon because food handling requirements for these meats are scientifically inspected, and no halal tax.
Posted by Josephus, Saturday, 20 January 2018 1:18:38 PM
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He or she has not responded in any way to the questions posed.
It was a waste of time even reading his 'cut and paste' diatribe.
Posted by mmadpat, Saturday, 20 January 2018 3:46:11 PM
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Istikhar is a male name.
I do not think a muslim woman would engage in a discussion with us
infidel males.
She might engage with Foxy.
Posted by Bazz, Saturday, 20 January 2018 5:18:41 PM
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' See, there was a use for women in the Christian Church after all, as pus sucking scab eaters'

typical secularist who claim their are no absolutes and now want to call this wrong. Your irrationality knows no bounds Paul. A
Posted by runner, Saturday, 20 January 2018 5:28:44 PM
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I would say that Iftikhar does not study the Koran and follow its teaching, otherwise he would be a friend of ISIS.
Posted by Josephus, Saturday, 20 January 2018 7:55:56 PM
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Josephus, how much of the Koran have you read, and was it in Arabic? In fact have you ever seen a Koran. As for me, I'm not into any of this religious mumbo jumbo nonsense.

runner as a so called Christlover you don't seem big on following his teachings. More into the hate and damnation stuff. Anyway, which wacko religious cult are you a member of?
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 20 January 2018 10:59:07 PM
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To Iftikhar.

If you're doing what I think you're doing, then I get it. So far you're the lone voice here to stand up for Islam, against how many others? 10 or more maybe, who are against what you've written or against Islam as a whole? I get it, search for any point that will make it's mark. Again if that's what's going on with the change in direction from Hijab and supporting Islam as a religion, to specifics on pork in relation to Islam; then I get it. Trying to find a strong point, that isn't as easily counterpointed.

However, that said you probabley won't like what I have to say.

In trying to support Islam, you've backed up a point that has scientific merrit for why a food was forbidden. But the point that I can't agree with is Islam's figuring that " the scripture is right." As a Christian I agree scripture (that is what is actually from God and His prophets) is right. But Islam's scripture counter points and verses in both Jewish and Christian texts. Then by saying that Islamic teachings are right because the rest has been corrupted, basically Islam is saying that neither is scripture right, nor rewriting the books in the bible to correct the errors.

It leaves God's message largely unread by Muslims, because they no longer read anything from the older prophets. Nor from the history in Israel. Nor from prayers and insight from Psalms and the Song of Songs. Or wisdom from Proverbs, and Ecclesiastes. The way Islam single handedly strips all scripture from before Mohamed's time, kills any chance that Islam has merit. Jesus said once that until heaven and earth pass away, not one word or jot or title in the scripture of the the prophets will go away until all is fulfilled. Not a word. Yet to believers in Islam, all that scripture is unfit for study. Not even the laws God gave to Moses, is important enough to study. Or else Islam would look and act much different.

(Continued)
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Sunday, 21 January 2018 3:05:37 AM
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(Continued)

Basically what I mean is that I agree with you that scripture is right. And that alone is why I think Islam can not be right, or be from God. What is in Islam is not scripture. Is not from God. It is a hypocritical writings that encourage people to view the prophets highly (peace be on them); then removes all that the prophets had to offer in their written texts (what peace is that?). Think about it. Seek God and turn away from Islam.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Sunday, 21 January 2018 3:07:23 AM
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Paul1405, it is obvious you do not read other peoples posts. In fact I have a copy of the Koran on my desk at this moment with my study notes in the margins. Iftikhar, Chicken, fish are considered white meats, beef, lamb and goat are red meats. It is known that red meats can be trigger causes of several cancers if eaten in excess of 500 grams each week. https://www.cancercouncil.com.au/blog/how-much-red-meat-is-ok-to-eat/ If God intended humans to be completely covered he would have covered them in hair from birth. Sorry it is only women that are to be completely covered. Can you imagine hairy women?
Posted by Josephus, Sunday, 21 January 2018 7:15:07 AM
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Josephus, I totally agree with you.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 21 January 2018 12:40:22 PM
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The Hijab and all other Islamic coverings are nothing more than walking billboards telling the world that the woman is a follower of a religion that teaches hate, discrimination and violence.

The hijab tells us that the woman believes murder, plunder, torture, rape and enslavement are not really wrong, it only depends on who is doing these to whom --- for example, the vile actions of her dear prophet are of no concern to her, but please no unkind words about her religion because that is evil.

A Muslim will say that she wears the garment to honor her god – a god, btw, that delights in brutal torture, according to the Quran (cutting off hands and feet, crucifixion, cutting off fingers, pouring boiling oil down throats, and every Muslims favorite, when Allah roasts the skin off infidels then miraculously restores it so he can repeat the torture). It is really comforting to know that the woman wearing the hijab thinks this is wonderful.

Then there are the tortures that Mohammad came up with on his own, as narrated in Islamic traditions, like building a fire on Kinana’s chest (Mo wanted treasure, but there was none), putting out eyes with hot nails and having Mohammad’s adopted son Zayd do this to an old woman named Umm Qirfa, I quote: "tied each of her legs with a rope and tied the ropes to camels, and they split her in two." Remember, Mohammad is the perfect man and did no wrong.

We could talk about Asma bint Maran being murdered while nursing her child or the pregnant woman being split open for offending Ifti’s “Perfect Man” but why bother? He is a True Believer, and true believers are impervious to facts or moral values.

Oh yes, about Khawlah Noman’s “they cut my hijab” hoax in Canada this week… What makes an 11-year old girl (and mother and brother) lie about an attack? I would say it is just Muslims being Muslims, doing what Islam teaches, promoting the Quranic concept that non-Muslims are evil and they are wonderful but so persecuted (snif).
Posted by kactuz, Sunday, 21 January 2018 2:37:14 PM
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I would not be surprised if what kactuz has posted above is true. I have never read the 'Koran', I think its called the Koran, not the Quran, a small point. I spent too much wasted time reading the nonsense in the Christian Bible, another publication from the Dark Ages. Give my stomach another 20 years to digest that load of rubbish, and I might have a read of this Koran. I have also read other religious text, and they all seem to be written in the same vain.

I thank God, I am an Atheist!

BTW, that does not stop me from supporting the rights of people, be they Muslim, Christian or anything else. I am often wrongly accused on the forum, since I am a progressive socialists in outlook, of being soft on Islam. As an Atheist I say, to the Devil with them, and all religions can go to Hell!
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 22 January 2018 5:15:05 AM
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Paul, Sadly the references are true -- and quite easy to find using a search engine. Not that facts will make any difference to Muslims.

Notice that Iftikhar has never accused me of making up verses, because he believes that Islam is wonderful and Mohammed is perfect and and and and nothing can change his mind because Islam is wonderful and Mohammed is perfect -- so there, that settles it and all the rest of reality is irrelevant to his world.

People like our Muslim friend can read about Mohammad and his merry men standing with their plunder on a pile of broken dead bodies as his men rape the captives and proclaim "Allahu Akbar" with rapturous joy.

Another day and week past and Turkish Muslims are bombing Afrin and killing Syrian Muslims, including children; Afghan Muslims are killing people in a hotel while they eat, including children; and lets not forget the dozens of Muslims killed by Muslims in a Kabul mosque ---- and Iftikhar, bless his soul, is leading a campaign against ... bacon.

Wonder how many people were killed by bacon this past week....

Nothing wrong with being an Atheist, Paul, just stay away from Islamic societies.
Posted by kactuz, Monday, 22 January 2018 10:17:19 AM
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In Florida, America, a man was sentenced to 15 years jail, plus 15 years probation on release, after he damaged a mosque and left a piece of bacon in it. The court deemed this to be a hate crime.

In Wuppertal, Germany, two Muslim illegal immigrants burn down a synagogue. They went unpunished, the court deciding that their action was political rather than a anti-Semitic hate crime.

The Islamic teaching that infidels will perish “by their own hand” is proving to be correct.

This is sort of thing is what we should be concentrating on. This is what is important about Islam, not how virtuous their women are, or what they wear.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 22 January 2018 10:46:31 AM
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Yep many like Paul hate the bible because it uncovers his hypocrisy perfectly and yet apologise for Islam because they know it is as putried as secularism. Kind of like the feminsist who hate Trump so much but would of been happy to see Clinton elected despite a history of total corruption.
Posted by runner, Monday, 22 January 2018 11:02:50 AM
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In 2017, Muslims killed more than 10 Christians per day on the African continent.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 22 January 2018 7:56:15 PM
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Only yesterday I was talking to a bloke about religious strife in India, between various sub sect of Hinduism. He was an Indian.

Runner, again you fail. "Yep many like Paul hate the bible because it uncovers his hypocrisy perfectly and yet apologise for Islam because they know it is as putried as secularism."

Paul does NOT apologise for ISLAM. I could, if I wished quote text from the Christian Bible equally abhorrent as the stuff in the other mobs cornball book. All this hate in religion, flows through to many of the adherents, take note runner. I am actually amazed that so many religious people are as peace loving as they are. given the fact so much hateful garbage is thrown at them by their religions. You've got one side saying "I'll gouge their eyes out!", the other mob counter that with "I'll gouge their eyes out, and cut out their tongues as well!" It's all there for the reading.

I have no problem with people going into churches, temples, synagogues, tents, caves, holes in the ground...whatever and carrying on with all the religious mumbo-jumbo they like. I object when they come out and want to cut my head off, then I get upset.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 4:28:51 AM
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Paul1405, Reflect on who is cutting off heads at the moment.
Posted by Josephus, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 7:35:47 AM
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Paul is firmly in the grip of relativism. This is why he thinks that all religions are the same. But he completely overlooks the fact the Christianity reformed, while Islam is still living in the dark ages.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 7:47:55 AM
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ttbn, does that apply to the more than 900 killed by the Peoples Temple Christians in 1978, or Branch Davidian Christians in 1993. Sure have reformed from their murderous ways. The screw balls. and nut cases still abound within the Christian Churches. Even the Catholic Church admits to the conservative figure of 7% of its clergy are sexual deviants. And you are worried about people wearing heebie jeebies.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 9:31:53 AM
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'. I object when they come out and want to cut my head off, then I get upset.' yeah Paul pity you are not so upset with unborn babies being ripped apart.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 9:34:38 AM
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Paul,

Your hatred of Christianity and the trouble you go to to find isolated incidences are well documented. Good luck to you. Unlike Islam, Christianity is not compulsory, and you are free to criticize it without fear of reprisals. You won't be murdered because you deny Christianity. There is no apostasy clause in Christianity. While you are entitled to your own views on every topic, trying to compare Islam with Christianity - or any other religion for that matter - will never get legs. There is simply nothing like Islam. We are at war with Islam. We are not at war with any other religion because no other religion threatens humanity as Islam does.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 10:53:01 AM
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Christians have no reason to feel smug about how Christianity has reformed. In my lifetime they have been responsible for the Catholic vs Protestants internecine violence in Ireland, where they often attacked children. In Aceh (Indonesia) the Christians have perpetrated their own share of attacks on Muslim neighbours.
My own personal experience as a child in a fundamentalist Christian orphanage was one of unrelenting psychological and physical abuse aimed at making me believe something, that even as a child I could not reconcile with reality or common sense.
What about kids at church schools who are abused in the brainwashing of having them inculcated with whatever set of prejudices their parents subscribe to. What about the children (and adults) who are still being slain in exorcism rituals.
If I had to recall the 5 nastiest people who I have ever encountered, it is notable that they were all fundamentalist Christians, and all were rabidly conservative politically.
I am probably lucky in that I have not had close personal encounters with Muslims, but the hate speech in their holy texts makes me think that fundamentalist Muslims and fundamentalist Christians are cut from the same cloth.
Religion was devised by man as a means of defining and demonising "the other", as well as any other stated objectives. It is still the case today.
To conclude, here is a special thought for 'runner'; you think it is wrong for children to be aborted, but you voice no criticism of the children killed in exorcisms, or of their abuse at the hands of those indoctrinating them with religion. There were times as a child in the hands of religious fanatics, that I did wish I were dead.
Posted by MyOwnMan, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 12:52:28 PM
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ttbn; When a Christian murders 900, its "isolated". when a Muslim murders 900 its universal rampant religious hatred, is it?

runner, unlike you who believes in sacrificing children at the alter of the 'All Mighty One'. I have made my anti abortion views public knowledge on this forum many times. So stick that one.

MyOwnMan, the Christians like to air brush their sordid sleezy past!

The Pope to the Bishop; "Just don't mention the Inquisition, I did once, but I think I got away with it."
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 5:15:49 AM
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Paul1405, When has a Christian or a Church in the last hundred years murdered 900 in the name of his God?
Posted by Josephus, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 12:20:50 PM
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Good question, Josephus. Even the Crusaders were sent by the Church to protect Christian pilgrims from being killed by Muslims. The were not sent to kill Muslims in the name of he Church. However, I'll bet that old Paul will come up with something to justify his beliefs.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 12:43:54 PM
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Christian mass killing was a fact in the Central African Republic last year (and continuing). Also, do not forget the machinations of the Christian churches and missionaries that were such a large factor in the Rwanda genocide.
My,my, haven't we got a long way from why Muslim women wear a bag over their head!!
Posted by MyOwnMan, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 1:02:21 PM
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MyOwnMan

you are either very naive or very dishonest.Have you heard of Stalin, Hitler and many other socialist dictators. By far the nastiest people I have met have been secularist. Does that mean all secularist are nasty? of course not. Try thinking and stop regurgitating secular lies.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 5:26:12 PM
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Runner: You did not read what I wrote, I was talking of my own personal experience. I did not have the misfortune to experience Stalin, Hitler et al in person. I can also say that there were just a few people in my young life that were committed Christians and who were some of the most beautiful folk I ever met. They were the exceptions to the rule, most fundamentalist Christians that I had the misfortune to be associated with (mostly unwillingly on my part) were joyless hypocrites who seemingly enjoyed bringing misery into the lives of others. Their obsession with the sex lives of others knew no bounds. That was the lived reality of my younger life as a ward of such people. Of course, I have since found some evil souls who were not Christians, but they have proved to be much thinner on the ground.
Posted by MyOwnMan, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 5:58:49 PM
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MyOwnMan u do realise that the term ' Christian killing' is an oxymoron. ' Of course, I have since found some evil souls who were not Christians, but they have proved to be much thinner on the ground.' having personally hung out with people from all parts of life I find that very hard to believe. As someone who appears to claim not to believe in God it seems strange you even use the word 'evil'. Secularism denies absolutes and then is irrational enough to define their own standards of good and evil. Nothing is more evil than killing unborn children.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 6:17:08 PM
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"Paul1405, When has a Christian or a Church in the last hundred years murdered 900 in the name of his God?"

Josephus, 18th November 1978, location; Jamestown Guyana, the Christian; Jim Jones, the Christen Church; The Peoples Temple, the victims; 909 persons, almost the entire congregation.

Of course you are going to claim this was all the act of Christian renegades led by a demented Jones, who wrongly believed he was acting in the name of God. I'll agree. But like ISIS which is run by demented Muslim renegades, it also wrongly kills in the name of God. Neither are sanctioned by the mainstream of their respective religions, but both claim(ed) to act in the name of God. The link is they both believe their actions are legitimate through a belief in God. You can't have it both ways.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 25 January 2018 4:39:50 AM
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Why does our government not keep people who wear the hijab out of Christian countries? It is just commonsense to do that.
And why do those people come to Christian countries and not muslim countries.

The Hijab is an obvious source of social division, and promotes tribalism based on religion. The number of times, debates are held about it in the media, social internet opinion sites etc. is a testimony to how much division it causes.

The number of times our leaders talk about," boots on the ground" here and there and somewhere else, to fight terrorism, doesnt make sense with us having open borders at the same time.
Posted by CHERFUL, Thursday, 25 January 2018 9:12:39 PM
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Now, after the Muslims women are involving more and more in the society, those people are trying to get them back to the ghettos by banning them from wearing the Hijab/Burqa…And the other one who were saying that: Men are imposing the Hijab/burqa to those women and are covering that by saying: it’s her choice. This argument is simply ridiculous, it seems that she doesn't want to hear that someone wear it because of their spiritual journey, she definitely wants them to be oppressed. And the French guy who were saying: We are banning it because of the dignity of the woman and gender equality. Since when the equality is used to restrict the liberty of free choices. Those people need to be reminded that this law is totally opposed to the universal human rights.

Hijab isn't just clothing, it's an avenue for da'wah (as WhyIslam has been illustrating today). In the West, people feel more comfortable asking questions of me when I am wearing a scarf, maxi skirt, t-shirt, and cardigan in coordinating colours, as opposed to all black abaya and scarf, which tends to draw a LOT more attention in areas where Muslims are a minority. Isn't the point to be obviously Muslim but not stand out overmuch? Also, when we talk about "hijab isn't fashion", we need to discuss the mentality behind what we wear, not the clothes themselves. As long as our clothing conforms to Islamic guidelines of modesty, there is no need to cast aside our individual cultural clothing for abaya. Pretty clothing that fits properly and looks good increases confidence and self-esteem, and seeing that they aren't limited to wearing too-large black abaya can encourage sisters who want to wear hijab but are worried about looking "sloppy" while out and about or "unprofessional" in their workplaces
Posted by Iftikhar, Friday, 26 January 2018 3:12:16 AM
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//Why does our government not keep people who wear the hijab out of Christian countries?//

Because we don't live in a Christian country, you ignoramus. We live in a secular country, with no state religion.

//It is just commonsense to do that.//

No, it's appalling bigotry. Can you not tell the difference?

//The Hijab is an obvious source of social division, and promotes tribalism based on religion.//

No, it's bit of material you wear on your head. Nuns used to wear similar garments, and nobody claimed they were a source of social division. And shouldn't grown-ups be allowed to dress themselves without stickybeaks like you telling them what they should wear?

I really don't see why get worked up about people's fashion choices. It's a just a scarf, for heaven's sake. Do you get as worked up when people have accessorised poorly? Or if their top doesn't match the rest of the ensemble? Or their shoes aren't the right designer label? I know some people take fashion very seriously, but don't you think it's taking things a bit too far to claim it's 'an obvious source of social division' when people wear hats you don't like?

Are Muslims are definitely not the only people who wear scarves on their heads. I was a Scout, and we wore scarves:

http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=3741461

Scout scarves are a triangular piece of material, which are typically rolled as shown and worn around the neck, secured by a 'woggle'. But if remove the woggle, take it off your neck and unroll it, they make an excellent headscarf (also known as 'bandanas' or 'hijabs'). You wouldn't think it, would you? The Scouts as a source of social division? But they are a paramilitary organisation who have been known to wear scarves on their heads. The risk is far too great: it's time to ban the Scouts from Australia.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 26 January 2018 7:27:51 AM
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Social division and tribalism based on religion - sounds good, pretty much the opposite of, God forbid, how it would be if we were invaded by China.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 26 January 2018 11:17:11 AM
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Toni, I am very concerned about those fellows wearing dog collars, they are not wearing a tie! I feel it's just not safe to go out at nights with these non conformist on the streets. The government should do something about it, after all its just common sense. I don't want to be seen as being too harsh, but I do believe crucifixion for the first offence is warranted. If for no other reason than to protect the little children. I am sure I have CHERFUL'S agreement on this, do I have yours?
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 26 January 2018 7:48:50 PM
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Toni Lavis,

The Catholic Nuns, are viewed as a non threatening, relic of a reformed christian religion.

The fact that a country is secular, is all the more reason to not bring in a religion
that comes from countries that are governed by radical imams.

The Hijab, scarf etc are regarded as threatening in secular countries that do not want
government handed over to weird priests who kill people who dont become muslim.

Isis,Al Queada,Hamas, the Taliban, have used those robes and garments as a political
killing uniform. Dont blame me and people who no longer can view people wearing the
symbols of the muslim killing groups without suspicion.
Much as people wearing a swatstika as a tacky fashion statement on a handbag would be viewed with suspicion.
You can argue about their right to wear it, but you cant stop people associating it
with the mass slaughter in World war 2 no matter how harmless the person wearing it may be.
The muslim garments have been flashed across our Tv and computer screens, with Isis and terrorists screaming death threats. The perception of these garments will be forever associated with those images in peoples minds.
And why wouldnt they be?
No scarves and black sheets here thank you.

I dont understand the covering of hair on the head. Pubic hair, yes.
Posted by CHERFUL, Saturday, 27 January 2018 9:22:30 PM
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Prince Harry Goes Nazi
Friday, June 10, 2011

In 2005, just two weeks before Holocaust Memorial Day, Prince Harry figured it was a good idea to turn up at a "colonials and natives" costume party dressed as a Nazi. British tabloid the Sun published a photo of the prince wearing a swastika armband and a desert uniform similar to those worn by Erwin Rommel's German Afrika Korps. with "I'm very sorry if I have caused any offense, to you know who" the Prince said in a statement. "It was a poor choice of costume, (two sizes too big) and I apologize (the kaky uniform clashed with my ginger hair)." He probably should have taken tips from his scandal-free brother Prince William who reportedly wore a homemade outfit representing, Daffy Duck.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 27 January 2018 9:41:05 PM
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//Dont blame me and people who no longer can view people wearing the
symbols of the muslim killing groups without suspicion.//

Men wearing hijabs? I don't think Muslim extremists are into cross-dressing, dude.

I can't help but blame you. You actually seem to be genuinely afraid of people's hats. I've seen cowardice in my time, but that is truly pathetic.

//The muslim garments have been flashed across our Tv and computer screens, with Isis and terrorists screaming death threats.//

Show me a single link to a single terrorist wearing a hijab, and I won't think you're a drooling halfwit.

//I dont understand the covering of hair on the head.//

Aside from the obvious practical value in protecting oneself from the sun, I don't see the point of hats either. And yet there are many situations where people wear hats that serve no obvious practical purpose, simply because it is the done thing and that is what is expected of them. Why do women wear silly little hats that don't offer any sun protection to horse races? Nobody knows, they just do. And if they were to show up without their silly little hat, it may be perceived as a faux pas.

When my Mum was younger, women all wore hats to church - I recall her telling me how much she hated it when she was little. In the 1917 Code of Canon Law it was a requirement that women cover their heads in church. It said, "women, however, shall have a covered head and be modestly dressed, especially when they approach the table of the Lord." That wasn't changed until 1983. Not exactly ancient history.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Saturday, 27 January 2018 10:55:52 PM
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So as little as 40 years ago, the Catholic Church - not some weird heathen religion, but the largest Christian denomination in world (and also Australia) - took the view that covering the head for the sake of modesty was important. Head covering was unanimously practised before the Reformation, and the Protestants were also in favour. Luther and Calvin both called for women to wear head coverings whilst in public worship. It wasn't until the 20th century that the practice started to die out. Some Protestant denominations like the Plymouth Brethren and Anabaptists still maintain the tradition, as do some Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. Are you going to tell them all how to dress themselves as well?

The Biblical basis for the practise is 1 Corinthians 11:5, which for most of the history was interpreted in favour of head covering during worship, and is presumably where the Muslims got the idea in the first place. But this quaint belief you seem to have that head covering one's head for modesty is some wicked, alien practice that only those dreadful foreign heathens get up to is complete and utter bollocks. And at the end of the day, who cares? Christians abandoned the tradition, Muslims didn't, but since covering your head doesn't hurt anybody.... what's the problem?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_headcovering

Surely it can't just be because it's something Muslims do, and thus must be banned? Muslims also eat, drink, breathe and sleep. Should we ban all those things because they're things that Muslims do? That's about how much sense your argument makes.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Saturday, 27 January 2018 10:57:04 PM
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CHERFUL,

"The Catholic Nuns, are viewed as a non threatening, relic of a reformed christian religion"

Let us not forget the Anglican nuns.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 28 January 2018 9:04:20 AM
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Toni Lavis

stop being deliberately obtuse and trying to muddy the waters about points I made which you understand perfectly.

There were Isis fighters who wore, black robes (sheets)and black scarves wrapped around their faces to hide their identities. Plus they held up flags with writings about the Muslim faith.

The Christians did indeed wear hats into church, but my point was, they no longer do so
because a lot of the strict dress codes of the religion have gone, along with the modernization of the religion.
You agree with my point then, when you refer to the silliness of hats. I rest my case, that the headscarf worn by muslims is silly.

But the headscarf is more than a headcovering when worn as a public uniform by a religious sect. It is a statement, that they are muslims, not just that they are modest. The amount of makeup, giving the lips a big red pout and eyelashes and eyes popping from all the massacre and eyeshadow, that I have seen on the faces of those wearing the muslim headscarf, screams sexy, not modest. So they obviously arent wearing the headscarf out of modesty, but as a declaration that they are muslim. That is segrating themselves off from mainstream society into a separate group. Division.
Posted by CHERFUL, Sunday, 28 January 2018 9:15:34 PM
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is mise

The fact that there are Anglican nuns, does not change the point I was making
that nun outfits are seen as a non threatening outfit from a bygone era.
Posted by CHERFUL, Sunday, 28 January 2018 9:29:26 PM
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funny seeing Julie Bishop wearing a head scarf while visiting a muslim country. THen we had the feminist vagina heads showing how demented their hatred towards Trump was. Give me a woman respecting her husband anyday.
Posted by runner, Sunday, 28 January 2018 9:31:39 PM
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yuyutsu

Id prefer to live under Chinese rule than muslim rule.
At least the Chinese people display more intelligence and common sense.

In fact Asian people have the highest IQ in the world.

If I had a choice Id much prefer to live under the rule of the British and European nations.
Obviously, a lot of people agree with me, because there are millions of them
from all over the world risking death and extreme hardship to make their way to Europe
and Western countries. You can run Western countries down all you like, but actions speak louder than words.
And the action testifys how much people want to live in Europe.
Posted by CHERFUL, Sunday, 28 January 2018 9:39:31 PM
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runner

and give me a country where men respect their wives, anyday.

They are usually the most advanced best countries to live in, in the world.
Posted by CHERFUL, Sunday, 28 January 2018 9:43:10 PM
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runner

I am agaInst any western woman wearing a scarf in Arab countries, Mrs Trump
had much more guts than Julia Bishop when she accompanied Donald on a trip to
meet the Arab leaders.

Also I think the leftist, so called women liberationists in Western countries have lost the plot,
when they side with muslim women in saying the wearing of the black sheets and
face viels is a choice.
But I still stand by what I said above,the world, doesnt need more women respecting
their husbands, but more husbands respecting their women. I think Jesus would understand what I am referring to, when I talk about the horrendous treatment of women across history, across the world on this planet.
Posted by CHERFUL, Sunday, 28 January 2018 9:55:31 PM
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//There were Isis fighters who wore, black robes (sheets)and black scarves wrapped around their faces to hide their identities.//

But not hijabs. This is what hijabs look like:

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=hijab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi44L_9jPvYAhWBOpQKHbjFAQYQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=949#imgrc=_

Notice how they're all being worn my women? And not Isis fighters, who seem to favour the balaclava which has been popular with soldiers and paramilitary groups since the Crimean War.

http://www.strategic-culture.org/images/news/2016/09/13/or-37894.jpg

//I rest my case, that the headscarf worn by muslims is silly.//

So that's it? It's silly, so go ahead and ban it? Sorry, but I don't think that's a good enough reason to ban things. I think football and country music and the teeny-tiny hats women wear to horse races and New Year's Eve fireworks are all silly. So I guess we can add all those to the banned list... bit of a shame for people who like do like football, but it's silly so it has to go.

If you think it's silly, just don't wear one. That simple. I avoid wearing ties for that very reason.

//So they obviously arent wearing the headscarf out of modesty, but as a declaration that they are muslim. That is segrating themselves off from mainstream society into a separate group. Division.//

A lot of Christians wear crucifixes or attach fish decals to their cars as a declaration that they are Christian. That is segrating themselves off from mainstream society into a separate group. Division.

Better add crucifixes and fish decals to the banned list, eh?

I really don't see the problem with publicly declaring your faith in a free, secular society like Australia. I myself am a pantheist. Now, where exactly was the harm in me declaring that?

//THen we had the feminist vagina heads//

Still haven't discovered what vaginas look like, runner?
Posted by Toni Lavis, Monday, 29 January 2018 3:28:43 AM
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Dear Cherful,

«Id prefer to live under Chinese rule than muslim rule.»

This reminds me of when the cannibals asked me whether I prefer to be served stewed of fried.

But in my previous comment I was not referring to the totality of living under Muslim rule: all I was commenting about, was your specific statement, saying: "The Hijab is an obvious source of social division, and promotes tribalism based on religion".

Had these been the only "issues" with Islam, then I would rather be promoting the Hijab. Unfortunately, Islam also introduces other, extremely negative issues, including terrorism. We could only dream of the day when social divisions and tribalism based on religion will be allowed in Muslim countries.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 29 January 2018 1:18:58 PM
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yuyutsu

totally agree
Posted by CHERFUL, Monday, 29 January 2018 8:33:03 PM
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Toni Lavis

The Hijab is still associated with militant islam in peoples minds.

In the same way the Klu Klux Klan outfit
and Nazi clothing is.

And the last two are banned because of their associated connection to militant groups.

What do you feel about the banning of Nazi uniforms and symbols in public
or people donning klu klux klan robes in public.
I suspect you are not against the banning of these in public.
Posted by CHERFUL, Monday, 29 January 2018 8:47:11 PM
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Well it appears we have lost Iftikhar. Muslims are not allowed to debate ideas; the Koran and it tenants are just to be accepted as the word of Allah without question.
Posted by Josephus, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 2:25:04 AM
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//The Hijab is still associated with militant islam in peoples minds.//

No it ain't. Islamic militants are all male. People that wear hijabs are all female. Do I need to draw you a Venn diagram here? Your argument doesn't hold up. By all means feel free too keep repeating it, as though that somehow strengthens it, but all you'll be doing is making an increasingly large fool of yourself.

//In the same way the Klu Klux Klan outfit
and Nazi clothing is.

And the last two are banned because of their associated connection to militant groups.//

No, that analogy doesn't work because - just like Muslims - it was male Klansmen and Nazis that were militant, and not their womenfolk. For that analogy to be accurate, we'd have to find out what the WAGS of Klansmen and Nazis wore (dresses would be my guess, and presumably women's underwear) and then ban those articles of clothing because of their associated connection to militant groups.

Jesus, at the rate were adding stuff to the banned list we'll have women walking the streets stark naked before long. Hmmm, maybe banning all this clothing isn't such a bad idea after all ;)
Posted by Toni Lavis, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 6:43:37 AM
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Tony, Be informed, Muslim mothers promote jihad and are proud if their sons die in the a suicide bombing to promote Islam. It is part of the religion of extremism; the death cult.
Posted by Josephus, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 7:25:28 AM
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Muslim 'militants' - terrorists - are not "all male" Toni Lavis. Several female suicide terrorists have blown themselves up recently, taking a few innocent people with them. Not as many as the blokes. It's probably harder to kill people with your face covered up and, well you know woman aren't as good at blokey jobs, are they. You need to see, hear, and watch more news and current affairs Toni. And, Josephus is right. There are a lot of vicious old biddys under those black tents urging their boys to go to the virgins.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 8:59:57 AM
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As usual when Iftikhar tries to convince us of the virtues of his religion, Islam comes out looking worse than ever.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 10:37:21 AM
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