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The Forum > General Discussion > America; too many guns - far too many massacres: What can they do about it?

America; too many guns - far too many massacres: What can they do about it?

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Nearly all of us would agree, there are far too many guns in the hands of Americans. Consequently we've witnessed a profusion of arbitrary killings that can only be described as being almost primeval in it's spectacle of arrant butchery and gratuitous killing. It's become almost a monthly event where some psychiatrically disturbed individual, decides to exorcise his demons by the wanton murder of innocents, mostly with the use of firearms.

What can be done about it? Personally I've no idea at all?

Given the political power exercised by the NRA. The fact that ATF/FBI have no idea of the enormous number of guns (of all types) in the community. The wide divergence between many of the State Laws apropos; restrictions, licensing, purchase, ownership, carriage, and use of guns? And lets not discount the huge economic imperative they have, by the number of lucrative Arms Manufacturing facilities, they have in the United States, and the tens of thousands people they have employed therein.

Therefore if you were President Donald TRUMP, and had a mind to (drastically) curb these massacres, what measures would you initially introduce?
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 7 October 2017 10:36:15 AM
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Sadly , Trump is in the time-warp of America first against the British and Amerindian scalp-hunters. Guns give liberty against the overwhelming opponents who almost killed the Republic. Japanese , Soviets and Vietcong tried to march on the Washington swamps , Mexicans are massed on the border and the IS are coming.
Posted by nicknamenick, Saturday, 7 October 2017 12:33:00 PM
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I think this really is a tough question.

The reason I think it's a really tough question is because I think the US is becoming a political powderkeg headed for civil war.
- And under those circumstances I would not move to disarm the public or remove their ability to defend themselves or their property.
There's just to many guns in America, probably a gun for every citizen; they're not going to remove the ability of those who deliberately wish to harm others from obtaining them.
US citizens are skilled enough in gunsmithing that they will just make their own anyway.
I saw a video a few days back where one bloke melted down aluminium cans in a small furnace, then cast and machined his own AR15 lower receiver in his garage; there's plenty of similar videos on youtube.
Banning bump-stops won't matter much, people who want them for the purposes of doing harm will just 3D print their own any.

So taking the guns away from law-abiding citizens and removing their ability to defend themselves isn't going to help things in my opinion, in the bigger picture of where the country is headed.
US citizens have always had a softer stance on using guns to protect life and property and for all the deaths it may be soon when they need this more than ever.

Socialism is gaining ground and leftists don't respect democracy is the US anymore.
They think violence is a legitimate response to removing a President they dont like.
It's liberals that are currently the number one buyers of guns and going to firing ranges.

Far too many massacres, I honestly don't think we've seen anything yet.
I honestly think the political situation is going to continue to devolve.

What would I do?
Probably encourage more people to take firearms safety courses, know about responsible gun ownership and further promote concealed carry.
This shooting was an attack on white conservatives and Americana, remember the target is the motive.
So I'd strengthen Americana against the neo-liberal fascists who intend to start a civil war.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 7 October 2017 1:24:13 PM
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Dear O Sung Wu,

I've come across an article in The Los Angeles Times
that is an interesting one dealing with this topic.
The author admits that "Mass shootings are a particularly hard
problem to stop in a country with 320 million guns."
Also the "Right to Bear Arms" mentality that is ingrained
in the national psyche is difficult to overcome.

The article is worth a read and the author does make the
point that instead of focusing on mass killings Americans
need to address everyday gun violence. He tells us that
this is where laws can work.

The author mentions things like - universal background
checks, safe storage rules and of course more vigorous
gun prosecution of gun trafficking. He tells us that
"the gains could be huge - nearly 275 people a day
suffer "normal" gun violence. The weekly total around
1,925 people is more than triple the number of wounded and
dead in Las Vegas".

The author states that "obsession over shooters like the
Las Vegas killer won't make Americans much safer."
However he feels that "Grasping the real dimensions of
everyday gun violence and acting accordingly to try to stop
it will."
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 7 October 2017 1:31:18 PM
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cont'd ...

Dear O Sung Wu,

Sorry, I forgot to add the link. Here it is:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op.ed/la-0e-winkler-wrong-debate-on-guns-20171006-story.html
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 7 October 2017 1:35:17 PM
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I'll try again :

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op.ed/la-oe-winkler-wrong-debate-on-guns-20171006-story.html
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 7 October 2017 1:38:09 PM
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One grub in 340million, a copy cat encouraged by the certainty of instant PERSONAL celebrity, notoriety, known forever, courtesy of the hundreds of cynical, self-serving grubs of politicians, political activists and media who should know better than to sensationalise suicide, terrorism and mass homicide, but do it anyhow to serve their own secondary agenda.

In any large population there will be some potential offenders like that and there are many tools at their disposal, some being explosives, fire accelerants, poisons and firearms. The last mentioned is the un-safest way for the criminal, practically guaranteeing immediate discovery and denying escape.

Is it the number of fuel outlets, hardware stores (for chemicals, containers and so on), guns, reference sources (find your recipe using chemicals from home), edged tools and so on? Because wreaking mayhem is a simple affair. Ban them all? Ban everything?

However, the BIG question for grubs like the LA monster is how to guarantee the biggest, most sensationalist coverage of HIM possible.

Potential offenders need not worry though, because for every one of them, there are hundreds of grubby, unethical, unprincipled, self-interested grubs who can always be relied upon to help them out where $millions of publicity and follow-ups too are concerned.

Elsewhere, out of the limelight, in the background, there are many people working quietly away to detect the problem situations, analyse risks and risky behaviour, build in protections judiciously and counsel, distract and head-off those who might become problems. Lets not talk about them though and give them more resources, it is always easier to invoke hollow political mantras like 'gun control'. That's politics!
Posted by leoj, Saturday, 7 October 2017 2:18:17 PM
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Dear o sung wu,

Perhaps unsurprisingly I think the only person capable of doing it is Trump. Whether he would or not is a completely different question. It took a right-wing politician in Howard to get gun reform in this country and with the politics in the States at the moment anyone else moving to remove firearms from that society may well cause severe civil unrest.

When I put this question to a Yank there was a naturally cynical reply;

“Trump doesn't seem like a guy who would expend political capital to improve the country.”

A vain hope perhaps.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Saturday, 7 October 2017 3:00:48 PM
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What can they fo about? Who knows. It's there problem, not ours. We have enough to worry about in our own country without getting involved in foreign countries.
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 7 October 2017 3:24:26 PM
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Dear O Sung Wu,

I tend to agree with SteeleRedux on this issue.
It would take someone like Trump to
do something about the everyday gun violence in the US
and act accordingly to try to stop it. But as Steele
pointed out - whether he will is another matter. He may
not want to risk losing the base support of his voters.

Australia's gun control laws are often cited as a model
but there are still millions of guns in our country that
a would be mass shooter could use. We therefore need to
be vigilant regarding our own laws to ensure that we do
not ever inherit the gun violence problems that the US has.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 7 October 2017 4:07:31 PM
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Thank you NICKNAMENICK; ARMCHAIR CRITIC & FOXY...

None of you paint any sort of optimistic picture in ways they might be able to curb these massacres, and at the same time reduce, or even slow, the burgeoning numbers of people seeking a gun, or those wishing to add to their increasing arsenal of guns! Almost a case of; '...I gotta get me a gun and a big 'Mother' at that...'! Could a mass shooting almost commence a panic phase I wonder?

Your meticulous take on the situation, is both unambiguous and absolutely frightening, ARMCHAIR CRITIC! Furthermore, not that far from the truth I suspect? A few 'hotheads' deciding to take advantage of everyone's grief and anger, could very well be the genesis for a localised civil war; one that may be prosecuted along ethnic and colour lines? As evidenced by gun sales

A possible solution might well come from a Site that FOXY has kindly provided us with. Which suggests inter alia; Instead of trying to, interdict and 'reason' ways to stop these mass killings - Authorities should try and concentrate their energies, on the individual or single shootings, which collectively far outnumber the casualties of these mass shootings?

And our mate NICKNAMENICK in his own quaint and inimitable way, has suggested that since the inception of the United States, they've always had to rely up guns, in all their forms, to get, and to keep them out of trouble, so it's little wonder they're a nation that depends upon the gun for so much - in fact their very survival and future is deeply inscribed within their DNA?
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 7 October 2017 4:46:38 PM
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Steele,

"It took a right-wing politician in Howard to get gun reform in this country" and so become the father of the Australian gun lobby; before "Flack Jacket Johnny" we had no organized political representation for gun owners, now we do and basically it's down to JW Howard.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 7 October 2017 4:52:37 PM
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"It would take someone like Trump to do something about the everyday gun violence in the US"

What about Obama? Obama failed to do anything about the already known contributors to African-American homicide and other violence, which is by far the highest in incidence. There is reluctance to discuss their disproportionate representation in crime statistics and the known socioeconomic causes of crime in general, which are consistent world-wide.

ttbn, "We have enough to worry about in our own country without getting involved in foreign countries"

You are probably referring to Australia's world record for highest energy prices. But you could easily be talking about levels of household debt. Or the unsustainable mass immigration Ponzi scheme. Or maybe ex- and present politicians selling out Australia. What about ex-PMs spending up on travel?

Yes there are many things to talk about but there is plenty of reluctance to do that. Instead we have instant experts like the woeful Waleed Ali lecturing and patronising the United States.

Now it just so happens that some here do hang from Waleed's lips. And maybe they are up for something to kick around now that their ride on SSM is nigh over. The SSM, that has (pre-)occupied the 'Progressives' for years. So much so that they have not been at all concerned with 'Struggle Towns' or Australia becoming one of the World's highest uses of illicit drugs -which is where the guns come in, quite literally too!
Posted by leoj, Saturday, 7 October 2017 5:13:30 PM
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Gun control in the US would have no effect on the main killer, the illegal drug industry. The product is mostly imported despite law enforcement attempts to stop it, most the weapons they want are brought in the same way. Gun control would simply make illegal gun dealing more profitable.

It would have no effect on this killer, either. A wealthy person, wanting a large armoury would acquire it as easily as drug addicts currently acquire their drugs.

It may have some effect on accidents with legal guns, & may reduce the disturbed schoolboy type shootings. So of course would the locking up of those with mental illness, & those showing any sign of such problems.

It is the same do gooders that have pushed for those with mental illness to be let loose on the street, & caused much of the problem that mow want gun control. Accident or cunning plan? You will decide this on your ideology of course.
Posted by Hasbeen, Saturday, 7 October 2017 5:27:00 PM
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leoj,

Yes. All of those things and more.
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 7 October 2017 5:30:36 PM
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Hi there LEOJ, STEELEREDUX, & TTBN...

You are of course right LEOJ when you say the Internet is full of data and recipes on how best we can hurt and kill each other, by spending a few bucks at the local Hardware Store. And it's not at all hard to fashion a shotgun out of piping. In fact I possess one such weapon made at Parramatta Gaol in the early 1980's for the purpose of an escape. Fortunately prison authorities were informed, and the potential escapees were 'given up' by a another inmate, and the whole escape attempt fell on it's face? NSW Corrective Services kindly donated this 'shotgun' device, for the purpose of demonstrating to police recruits, an illicit weapon, made by inmates in a maximum security gaol in NSW.

Why do these 'Internet Sites' allow such data to be placed on their Sites, has me completely puzzled, when clearly it's only legitimate use would be for some criminal enterprise?

I couldn't agree with you more STEELEREDUX; it must be a steady as she goes, with a firm, even hand on the helm at this moment, For any sign of the Government being panicked, into limiting or restricting guns, or their 'bump' assessors in America, may be disastrous. Moreover, one injudicious hand, could well prove the political downfall of any President during these troubled and anxious times? Does 'the Donald' TRUMP have the necessary charisma and personal sway among his Republican mates; we'll see?

TTBN, I agree with you, we do have many insoluble problems here in Oz without exacerbating and augmenting them, with those of the United States? But we should all bear in mind some watch and copy many of the trends that emerge from over there, especially weapons of all types.
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 7 October 2017 5:52:57 PM
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The solution is quite simple, have a binding referendum of the American voters on changing the Constitution ref. reversing the Second Amendment.
Then abide by the democratic decision.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 7 October 2017 6:21:30 PM
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o sung wu,

I see this as the major concern, that Australia is in the top 28 of HIGH drug use countries.

Just check from the link below, the countries that you might expect would have drug abuse far higher than Australia but in fact Australia now leads them by a long shot. And that is before the 'diversity' tail that swings the immigration policy dog allows the feared South American drug cartels to set themselves up here. The Russian Mafia is already established.

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/drug-use/by-country/

Federal politicians and bureaucrats are blind to the problems that mass immigration and putting 'diversity' first have brought to Europe, to the UK for instance.
Posted by leoj, Saturday, 7 October 2017 6:32:28 PM
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OSW,

It's pretty hard to copy the horror of the U.S situation because the weapons involved are not legally available here. That's the problem in America, fully automatic military-style weapons. I think that our laws are unnecessarily harsh, but we have never been able to have the sort of firearms the Yanks do, and that's why we don't have regular massacres. Howard's reaction to the only one-lunatic incident in Tasmania was way over the top, and I cannot blame Americans for not wanting to go down that road. All they need to do is ban all firearms except sporting/target ones. It's up to them. We with our ultra-draconian gun laws have nothing to teach them. We should be embarrassed that Howard did what he did to law-abiding shooters and got away with it. His unrealistic attitude to shooters was highlighted in his stupid wearing of a bullet-proof vest. Where on earth did the fool of a man think he was!
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 7 October 2017 6:58:06 PM
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ttbn,

Well said.

General Comment,
This is a worthwhile read, referring to Australia also.

"Does the Media Cause Mass Shootings?

A growing body of research suggests that increasingly intense media coverage of mass shootings is partly responsible for their acceleration in the United States."

http://psmag.com/news/does-the-media-cause-mass-shootings
Posted by leoj, Saturday, 7 October 2017 7:13:15 PM
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ttbn,

"It's pretty hard to copy the horror of the U.S situation because the weapons involved are not legally available here. That's the problem in America, fully automatic military-style weapons"

The weapons involved are legally available here and automatic weapons in the US are strictly controlled.

See: http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/133198/FACT_SHEET_Firearm_Types_Oct_2012.pdf

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-legal-to-own-a-fully-automatic-weapon-in-the-US-Why-or-why-not
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 7 October 2017 7:24:32 PM
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Proof that democracy is dead and the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
http://refusefascism.org/the-call-to-action-drive-out-the-trumppence-regime/

Have a good look over this website.
These people are at war with America.
They have no respect for the democratic outcome of the past election.
The wish to destroy the constitution and any semblance of the good country which once existed.
These people are well organised, their allies well ingrained into all levels of government, civil society and the corporate media.
This is coming socialist / communist revolution and US civil war.
They have an agenda and they wont allow Trump or the voters that democratically put him there to make back steps.

- And it's probably exactly what the deep state architects want.

If you support democracy, you better have a rethink.
Trumps support of the second amendment is what got him elected.
And the left and the deep state are just trying to disarm the public / stir up civil unrest that can later be blamed on conservatives before they go to war with America.

Oh and btw, the shooter was apparently radicalised and connected to ISIS and Antifa, and if that's not true, then they are covering up something even worse.
The official story is falling apart on this shooting.
Google and Facebook are censoring anyone who expresses their right to free speech and questions the official narrative.
Antifa? It's a fascist America BECAUSE of the left.
Stupid muppets
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 7 October 2017 7:25:05 PM
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Hillary Clinton's MO is to accuse others of doing that which she is guilty of, and to keep pushing a lie for so long until everyone accepts it.
She learned this from her mentor Saul Alinsky.
If you wish to understand Hillary Clinton, and understand what's happening in the world read 'Rules for Radicals' by Saul Alinsky.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals

Until you people figure this out and understand the tactics and games, then we're all totally screwed.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 7 October 2017 7:31:14 PM
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leoj,

The media is not helpful, at best. I sometimes think we could do with less information, certainly the sensationalist crap that gives coverage to nutters and gives latent nutters ideas.

Is Mise,

I tried to download your reference, but I didn't like the 'deny or allow' notice. I was not aware that fully automatic military weapons were available here, but you are are more into guns than I am these days, so I'll take your word for it, but I find it very disappointing if it is the case.
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 7 October 2017 9:12:04 PM
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Hi there IS MISE & TTBN...

I've mentioned before. John HOWARD 'did not' voluntarily put on the 'Morgan Magnum Ten' 'Hard Insert', Body Armour. He wore it at the absolute insistence of his 'personal close protection' Team Leader, an AFP Snr. Sergeant.

IS MISE your suggestion, the US could perhaps hold a binding referendum, apropos amending the Constitution's Second Amendment, 'The right to bare arms'. Then abide by the democratic decision? I think it to be a brilliant idea, I really do. The only trouble being would all the various militia, forest dwellers, and other 'back to nature folk' willingly abide by the outcome, if it turned out to be unfavourable to their cause? You know as well as anyone how passionate they can be, whenever they get a bee in their bonnet's? A terrific idea no doubt.

True LEOJ, drugs are a menace wherever you go and are often the root cause of many violent instances and crimes, not only occasioned by F/A's but everything else you care to name. ICE by all accounts is one of the worst, luckily for me, ICE did not feature with such a high profile, when I was in the business, but I've heard plenty since I've retired, let me tell you? Small individuals with extraordinary strength with complete obliviousness to pain, almost an automaton by nature and totally unaware to any other stimulant's they may've taken. Very dangerous people who can exact much damage whenever they're cornered and/or challenged.
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 7 October 2017 9:26:32 PM
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ttbn,

'The weapons involved are legally available here and automatic weapons in the US are strictly controlled."

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression, the weapons involved appear to have been semi-automatic and these are available here on Category C and D licences, fully auto firearms are another thing altogether and seem to be mainly confined to the military, some police and to criminals.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 7 October 2017 9:32:47 PM
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o sung wu,

Just to break the discussion out of the sides this seems to fall into,

"What If We Treated Guns Like Cars? Then We Might Be Able to Enact Truly 'Common-Sense' Gun Laws"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorburrus/2017/10/06/what-if-we-treated-guns-like-cars-then-we-might-be-able-to-enact-truly-common-sense-gun-laws/#5eba34be2c73
Posted by leoj, Saturday, 7 October 2017 10:34:48 PM
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Dear O Sung Wu,

The United States is a nation that has the most guns.
It would therefore make sense to make sure that it's people
were protected and this should not mean - letting
them have more guns.

For a start -

1) Gun owners should be required to have mandatory training
and licensing along with safe and secure gun storage.
Gun owners should be required
to regularly refresh their training and renew their permits
with requirements at least as stringent as those governing
renewal of a driver's license.

2) It would help to ensure that mental health services across
the country were not cut. Cutting these services does not help.

3) Parents should be made aware of children's
exposure to violence.
A reduction of this exposure would be a step in the right
direction.

4) Sensible gun laws need to be put in place.
Some suggestions should include the - banning of assault
weapons and high capacity magazines.

5) Other suggestions are -
Background checks on gun owners.

6) Strict penalties for gun
trafficking,

7) Mental health and drug screening.

8) Limiting
the number of guns per person.

9) Finally, provide safe communities - support citywide planning
which should include and provide for youth activities and involvement.

There's more on my list but this will have to do for now.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 8 October 2017 10:23:38 AM
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Hi there LEOJ and FOXY...

An interesting piece in 'Forbes', though somewhat simplistic I think. While it's true, a M/V and a F/A, are after all, just tools. Albeit their purpose and design are altogether different. Whereas a car is primarily a mode of transport, that if inappropriately used is capable of killing. But a F/A is exclusively an instrument for killing, fit for no other purpose whatsoever. I do understand what he's saying Leo I really do, but a gun has only one purpose - to kill.

FOXY, it always amazes me, how many of our really 'logical and commonsense' thinkers, turn out to be Ladies. Near the bottom of your list, you cited 'Limitation'. Just how many guns can one shoot at a time, and how many disciplines are there in target/skeet shooting, or hunting for that matter?

Another of your salient points, banning altogether, the possession, use, or importation from, State to State in the United States; ALL assault weapons, including those commercially designed to replicate assault weapons. There's no possible need for anyone to have such a weapon, save for the military and law enforcement.

Mental Health. That's a toughie FOXY. The right of privacy between a patient and his Doctor, and in this case, Psychiatrist. Police often have dossiers on criminals who they suspect of being mentally ill as well as their criminal exploits. Privacy and litigation to do with breaches of privacy, abound in the US. But in order to further screen, 'a fit and proper person' to have a licence, it must be done, and done carefully?

FOXY; all of your points are more than valid and to introduce even a couple of those points, could help in reducing some of these deaths.

Thanks - LEOJ & FOXY for your input.
Posted by o sung wu, Sunday, 8 October 2017 12:04:33 PM
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o sung wu,

The example was intended to be helpful, to open up and facilitate some discussion, to show what blocks discussion and how discussion might be progressed.

Anyhow, have a good one and see you on another thread.
Posted by leoj, Sunday, 8 October 2017 12:57:37 PM
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Dear O Sung Wu,

Thank You for your uplifting words (as always) and Thank
You for this discussion. It has made me delve into the
subject and as a result I'm learning a great deal. That's
what I like about this Forum. We get to discuss, so many
different issues and learn things along the way. I can
not even begin to imagine your vast experiences as a former
police officer - and the things that you had to deal with
on a daily basis. Our communities owe so much to people
like you who kept/keep us safe.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 8 October 2017 1:02:04 PM
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Hi (again) LEOJ & FOXY...

Thanks Leo for your insight and the most interesting article in Forbes. You my friend have a much deeper understanding of the philosophy that drives many of these offenders into doing what they do. As a copper you're taught, thus tend to think in terms of straight 'black and white'. Can you apply the law to the available facts? Either you can, or alternative, you can't, end of story. Thanks very much for your input, I do indeed appreciate it.

Hi (again) FOXY...

Regrettably the police aren't the sharpest knife in the draw. Sure over time you do tend to learn a little of human nature, like a potential suspect will likely try to obfuscate, many of his responses, to questions that are put to him. A bit about 'body language' all of which in isolation means little, but collectively can help establish the true author of a crime. The thing is, in criminal investigation matters, the longer the hunt progresses, the colder the trail will become, and the chance of an arrest diminishes exponentially.

The quicker a detective can tease out the salient facts, the better the chance of making an arrest. Time and manpower is everything, when trying to establish a perpetrator. Many thanks FOXY for you kind, but utterly undeserved words! I hope your Mum is going well, as you are too!
Posted by o sung wu, Sunday, 8 October 2017 4:46:43 PM
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o sung wu,

"Just how many guns can one shoot at a time, and how many disciplines are there in target/skeet shooting, or hunting for that matter?"

If a person shot in all available disciplines then I estimate that they would need 30+ weapons.

In pistol alone, I currently use four pistols and I could legally have twice that number if I shot in the single shot muzzle loading disciplines of flintlock smoothbore, flintlock rifled and the same two in percussion pistol.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 8 October 2017 6:24:53 PM
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//If a person shot in all available disciplines then I estimate that they would need 30+ weapons.//

And don't forget your mutated anthrax for duck huntin':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeiSDF83mXo
Posted by Toni Lavis, Sunday, 8 October 2017 6:38:30 PM
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Toni,

Don't shew your ignorance of the subject so openly, let us at least suppose that you have some knowledge.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 8 October 2017 6:41:51 PM
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On most issues I was not a Howard supporter, but on gun control, given the political limitations he faced, he was absolutely correct in the action he took. The vast majority of Australians, at the time supported Howard, and still support tough gun control measures.

The Las Vagus massacre must bring into question Nevada's lax gun laws,

Some facts about gun laws in Nevada:

The right to bear arms is enshrined in the first article of Nevada's constitution: "Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes."

You don't need a permit to buy a gun, nor are you required to get a license or register a firearm. There's no limit on the number of guns a person can buy at one time.

Carrying an unconcealed firearm in public is legal.

It's legal to own assault weapons and large-capacity magazines for ammunition.

There is no mandated waiting period before buying a gun.

You can bring a gun to a polling place, to a casino and to a bar.

In my view the above is a recipe for disaster. A question to the forums gun supporters, of the above what parts would you like to see introduced into Australia.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 8 October 2017 7:23:49 PM
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//Don't shew your ignorance of the subject so openly, let us at least suppose that you have some knowledge.//

It's satire, Is Mise. Oh, never mind...
Posted by Toni Lavis, Sunday, 8 October 2017 7:50:03 PM
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Paul,

What I'd like to see are some factual statements.

"It's legal to own assault weapons and ..."

It is not legal in the US to own assault weapons.

Assault rifle: "An assault rifle is a selective-fire rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. Assault rifles were first used during World War II. Though Western nations were slow to accept the assault rifle concept, by the end of the 20th century they had become the standard weapon in most of the world's armies, replacing full-powered rifles and sub-machine guns in most roles. Examples include the StG 44, AK-47 and the M16 rifle.

Assault weapons are capable of AUTOMATIC fire.
except for some US State definitions, which, as they are basically political definitions can be disregarded.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 8 October 2017 7:50:47 PM
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IS MISE I agree, there are probably more target disciplines available then I know. But then I'm not a shooter. As a former licensing copper, if an applicant came to me, and stated that he wished to participate in all thirty disciplines, I'd knock him back, and invite him to appeal to the magistrate.

IS MISE, how many licensed F/A's do you currently possess? A copper I knew had upwards of 20, both longs and shorts. I asked him his reason(s) why; given the value of his guns were quite high, approaching 18 - 20 thousand Dollars! Fortunately for me I was out of licensing at the time. To interrogate a serving copper as to the 'whys and wherefores' of his personal guns, well that was a whole new ball game.

Personally, I would argue a person would not have a legitimate need, for more than six F/A's, notwithstanding the enthusiasm he might have for the sport. And on past appeals quoting excessive F/A's, I reckon police would've been successful in almost 70 - 75% of the time.

This will no doubt please you too IS MISE, I've known a convicted crim (felony charge; 'crimes against the person') appeal to the District Court (a Judge) because licensing had denied him a F/A licence? His appeal was upheld! Go figure?

It always worries me, when an individual becomes so protective and possessive towards his F/A's, he'll fight tooth and nail for his right to possess and use them, almost to the total exclusion of nearly everything else, occasionally even his family?

Moreover other than some psychopathic killer, why would any sane man wish to modify his F/A with this 'bump-stock' contraption in order he may than replicate a machine gun? Why? What does it do for his 'psyche', other than to excite himself with the notion of how it must feel to kill human beings? It can't be anything else, machine guns are designed to kill.
Posted by o sung wu, Sunday, 8 October 2017 8:11:58 PM
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o sung wu,

Currently, I shoot pistol (centre fire and rimfire), black powder percussion revolver and black powder centre fire revolver.
I also shoot .22 rimfire target rifle using a BSA Martini International, centre fire target (.308 Omark), service rifle (.303 BSA of 1917) and shoot clay targets as well (12 ga. hammerless, double, ejector by Brno) and a 12 ga. KFC for single barrel events.
Then there is my No1 Ruger in .22o Swift for long range fox shooting and a .22 BSA single shot for bunnies.
I also hunt with a flintlock ball/shot gun in 20 gauge, a percussion ditto and I also have a percussion sporting rifle that I use occasionally.

That's 14 guns that I use on a fairly regular basis, I shoot pistol twice a month and target rifle and clays once a month.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 8 October 2017 9:35:16 PM
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That's fine Issy, as long as you don't start shooting people. Why not give up the silly shooting, and start shooting pool.

p/s I wondered why the South Sydney Bunnies had a bad season, now I know, you shot them. They went like dead ducks, a better year next year I hope.

BTW, I gave you what is Nevada law, when you don't like the facts, you ask for new facts.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 9 October 2017 4:11:13 AM
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Paul,

An assault rifle is AUTOMATIC, if we don't all use the correct terminology then misunderstandings must arise; arms and legs are both limbs but they are different.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 9 October 2017 8:18:37 AM
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//It is not legal in the US to own assault weapons.//

"The state does not prohibit possession of assault weapons... according to the NRA."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/10/02/nevadas-lax-gun-laws-make-easy-assemble-gun-arsenals/723569001/
Posted by Toni Lavis, Monday, 9 October 2017 8:39:44 AM
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I'm pretty sure you can buy a belt fed M60 off the shelf from Walmart in some states, and I'm also pretty sure you can buy a P90 with a 50 round clip if you can afford it.
I think it might depend on state laws.

Also it must be noted that some of these laws trample on the constitution which says 'right' to bear arms; not 'privelidge' / 'conditional' upon.

Don't forget, US citizens voted Trump in with his support of the second amendment.

People here who wish to impose their thoughts and idea on the citizens of America should remember that they already cast their vote; in support of guns, what they are hearing now is a well publicised media at work trying to shape their opinions and put aside the choice of the majority of citizens.

The US voted to keep their guns, and this shooting will not change that point of view.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 9 October 2017 9:00:23 AM
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Toni Lavis,

Is there anything about murder being illegal?

A patronising Oz PM and Oz 'meeja', led by 'their' ABC and the 'culturally powerful' Waleed Al, might be advising Uncle Sam to double that law.
Posted by leoj, Monday, 9 October 2017 9:30:32 AM
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AC,

"I'm pretty sure you can buy a belt fed M60 off the shelf from Walmart in some states, and I'm also pretty sure you can buy a P90 with a 50 round clip if you can afford it.
I think it might depend on state laws."

Automatic weapons, in the US, have been rigidly controlled since 1934, and no licenced automatic has been used in a crime since that date.
If you can look up conspiracy theories, surely you can look up a few facts as well.

The P90 is automatic and is not sold to civilians and as it has a 50 round magazine, and only a 50 round one, then you got that right.
It does not fire a clip.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 9 October 2017 9:31:10 AM
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IS MISE...I don't think ownership of the category F/A's or the number you've specified herein, to be either excessive or cause concern to any licensing authority. IS MISE I'm not speaking personally, purely speculatively based on many discussions I've had with the various Registrar's.

I think I commented before on your No.1 Ruger .220 swift a very flat trajectory, and deadly on foxes I'd imagine. I've also mentioned previously, years ago I had Ruger No.1 (Tropical) in .458W that was designed to accommodate the big four on the dark continent. Interestingly, the 'Tropical' in .458W is not mentioned in the 'Blue Book'? I've lost all interest in shooting now. Thanks IS MISE.

Hi there PAUL1405...

Our colleague IS MISE has a very conventional assemblage of F/A's, more so than many others I've known. And as his preferred sport, he's entitled to pursue it as long as he wants. I read somewhere many of those who enlisted in WWl from the cities, had to be taught rifle skills literally from the ground up. Whereas many from the bush could out-shoot their instructors!

I was a member of the Hurstville VDC Rifle Club (1950's - mid '60's) and we regularly shot every Saturday at the old ANZAC Rifle Range, Liverpool. All our ammo (.303 Ball) was sold at greatly reduced prices, as was our rifles. I purchased a new, No. 1 Mk.3 Lee Enfield Rifle, still in it's original packaging, for 3 Pounds Aussie. Heavily discounted by the Army for the purpose of continuing to train man and women, in the correct use of a basic military rifle, as well as developing competent shots. I was 16 years when I joined and loved every minute of it and learnt so much about 'bedding and floating' barrels. The most expensive item to be purchased was, a heavy barrel, and the aperture sight. The 'Central', 'Rawson' or 'Parker Hale' being the preferred.

You should also know Paul, IS MISE served with famed 3RAR in the Korean War, the most highly decorated Aussie unit to have done so. He'll always have my respect for that.
Posted by o sung wu, Monday, 9 October 2017 11:01:12 AM
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Someone else said it : Let them have all the guns they want, but bullets cost $1000 each...
Posted by HereNow, Monday, 9 October 2017 3:01:03 PM
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Here is an open invitation for any here to show how the Howard-inspired 'Aussie' gun control could have prevented the LA mass homicide.

-Since the Aussie 'experts' like Malcolm Turnbull and others are riding the ambulances for their own political gain and to strut the international stage, 'Look at Moi!'.

Another thing, when the mongrel did his killing, if he was as smart, calculating and wealthy as 'they' say he was, why didn't he pack all of those explosives into a plane (he had two licences) and fly it in to the crowd or into one of those jet fuel tanks?

Where it is the cynical politicians and others, particularly the media, who should know better but encourage these attacks where vicious SOBs and the deranged can 'win' everlasting notoriety and 'pay back' society for their own mistakes, nothing and certainly not the political sham of Soros' 'gun control' might prevent them from doing so.

It is very noticeable how the media and political lobbyists focus on the mongrel as they did in and still do in Australia where the Port Arthur grub is concerned. Imagine the possible copy cats who watch. Yet all know or should know how to change the agenda and as I have posted elsewhere but seemingly none here are interested, there are guidelines for media that are not being followed.
Posted by leoj, Monday, 9 October 2017 3:07:15 PM
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leoj, 98% of the population support tough gun control laws, evident by the dismal primary vote for the likes of the Shooters and Hooters Party.

An open invitation from a gun nutter, one of the 2%, to have what is acceptable to 98% of the population evidenced to your satisfaction is laughable. No thanks.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 9 October 2017 4:11:00 PM
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HereNow,

"Someone else said it : Let them have all the guns they want, but bullets cost $1000 each..."

So they make their own.

Ever heard of linear accelerators? electronic ignition?
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 9 October 2017 6:29:43 PM
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and I was forgetting these:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LjnhhtHojM
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 9 October 2017 6:51:51 PM
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From an Australian voice of the Yank NRA:

"Here is an open invitation for any here to show how the Howard-inspired 'Aussie' gun control could have prevented the LA mass homicide." [LV not LA - California has a mild degree of gun control, Nevada is the open slather to which the gun freaks wish to subject Australians]

Answer: The way it has prevented such mass homicides in Australia.

How could it have stopped all shootings in Australia?

Answer: The way it is done in Japan.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Monday, 9 October 2017 7:28:39 PM
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Is Mise,

Not are you still here you are defending having an arsenal of 14 weapons and insisting on the right of all Australians to have the same.

Then you are delivering crap about “It is not legal in the US to own assault weapons.”

What on earth was used in the Sandy Hook school shootings where 20 children between the ages of 6 and 7 were slaughtered because of a gun culture which you want to import into this country?

A Bushmaster XM15-E2S which was included in an assault weapon ban which was introduced in Conneticut assault weapon ban in 2013.

Look mate if you want to enjoy having multiple weapons and a gun culture you really need to move. Your efforts are endangering the lives of ordinary Australians. Time to either rethink or nick off.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Monday, 9 October 2017 7:28:39 PM
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So many 'experts', but none can show how Howard's 'gun control' could have stopped the LA murderer.
Posted by leoj, Monday, 9 October 2017 7:49:29 PM
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Issy and leo,

This would be an appropriate time for those two wombats, Tweedledum and Tweedlevendumer, who masquerade as the "Two Bobs" from the Shooters and Hooters Party, a bigger pair of space wasters you could not meet, they strut around the New South Wales Parliament like a pair of prized turkey's. They should attempt to introduce some Nevada style gun laws of their own into this state, Instead of continually trying to white ant existing robust gun control measures, and blocking good legislation. Then we would see what the majority think of the gunnies and what they want to inflict on the rest of us.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 9 October 2017 8:16:50 PM
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Steele,

You are great at making unfounded assertions; keep it up.

Assault rifles are capable of automatic fire, if a firearm is not so capable then it is not an assault rifle regardless of what anyone says; if it doesn't fit the definition then it's not an assault rifle.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 9 October 2017 8:28:00 PM
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Paul1405,

What about if the scurrilous ambulance-chasing Greens and other publicity hunting grubs stopped using the LA killer for headlines and encouraging copy cats in the process?

"Unethical Media Encourage More and Worse Mass Shootings"
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=7960
Posted by leoj, Monday, 9 October 2017 8:40:32 PM
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Further to the above:

"Part of the memorandum received from the Army’s Trifiletti stated: “SUBJECT: Freedom of
Information Jay H. Greenblatt & Associates “Assault Rifle”.
1. This office researched the definition of the term “assault rifle” by identifying and locating
official Department of Defense (DOD) and Department of Army (DA) publications on ordinance
technical terminology, DOD/DA technical small arms publications or definitions of military terms.
2. The definition of an “assault rifle” is “Assault rifles are short, compact, select-fire (i.e. both semiautomatic
and full-automatic) weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between
submachinegun and rifle cartridges.
Selective fire is defined as a weapon, which at the user’s selection, can fire semi-automatic or fullautomatic
fire. Semi-automtic is defined as a weapon designed to fire each time the trigger is
pulled. Full automatic is defined as a weapon which will fire continuously as long as the trigger is
pulled."

http://www.tulprpc.org/attachments/File/Army_Gives_Definition_Of_Assault_Rifle.pdf

One assumes that the US Army Ordnance knows what an assault rifle is.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 9 October 2017 8:41:23 PM
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Paul,

Why when the SF&F Party MsP tried to bring in stronger gun laws did the Greens vote against them?

If you don't know then ask your mate Shoebridge,
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 9 October 2017 8:49:04 PM
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There's a good data base on guns at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation

It shows that the only country in the world with a total ban on private gun possession with no loopholes is North Korea, but Rocket Man has even more serious weapons.

Most of the other loopholes are provisions that the applicant knows how to use a gun (duh! It doesn't take Einstein)and that the applicant isn't a known criminal or lunatic. Even Japan has a loophole though a very restrictive one (it sure needs to be restrictive noting the number of Japs who went ape with guns in 1942).

Data that I couldn't turn up, but which would be most instructive, would be correlations between size and number of loopholes and number of gun homicides. The widest loophole of all is of course the USA with the constitution that the slave owners and Injun hunters wrote and which leads to 30 thousand gun homicides a year.

We do, in Australia, need for our protection at least to put the gun freaks last on the ballot papers, especially Leyonhjelm, PHON and those who openly proclaim themselves to be shooters' parties.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Monday, 9 October 2017 10:11:24 PM
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Julian,

If all of your research is as accurate as "....and which leads to 30 thousand gun homicides a year."
Then it's time that you gave up or sought some advice.

Gun homicides average around 11,000 per anum, the following is typical:

"In 2013, there were 73,505 nonfatal firearm injuries (23.2 injuries per 100,000 U.S. citizens),[2][3] and 33,636 deaths due to "injury by firearms" (10.6 deaths per 100,000 U.S. citizens).[4] These deaths consisted of 11,208 homicides,[5] 21,175 suicides,[4] 505 deaths due to accidental or negligent discharge of a firearm, and 281 deaths due to firearms use with "undetermined intent".[4] Of the 2,596,993 total deaths in the US in 2013, 1.3% were related to firearms.[1][6]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#Homicides
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 9 October 2017 10:56:52 PM
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The gunnie is referring to MURDERS. Homi- = person, -cide = killing. Yanks kill themselves and one another with guns. More than 30 thousand of them every year. This is a direct result of the slave owners' and Injun-hunters' constitution -- the gun nirvana to which the deadly enemies of the lives of Australians aspire for Australia.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Monday, 9 October 2017 11:34:21 PM
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ALARM BELLS ARE RING IN NEW SOUTH WALES! A possible Nevada exists!

There are 850,000 registered guns in NSW. Shocking as that number is, it only reveals part of the disaster waiting to happen. David Shoebridge through freedom of information has found there are a number of potential Stephen Paddock's right here in NSW. David has found there are people in the state holding arsenals of around 300 guns each, with about 50 people having a personal cache of 100 or more weapons at their disposal. For what purpose these people hold so many guns we do not know. As far as we know none have ever been subjected to a exhaustive psychiatric assessment, which should be mandatory for all those seeking a gun licence, and repeated annually, just in case, there has been a change in their perilous mental state.

Leoj, what is the situation with the 'citizens militia' in Queensland? Are you able to reveal any details, or is it a complete secret?

Issy, since Las Vegas has anyone from the North America command passed on words of encouragement to the local chapter of the NRA? Or is that also a complete secret.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 3:59:20 AM
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Issy with his BS baffles brains! The old unrelated minimalist argument by associating something, in this case gun deaths, with something that appears to be related but is not, other causes of death, they are not interrelated at all. In that way you produce a very low figure like 1.3%. That makes it appear guns are somewhat safe and therefore not a problem.

My statistic; In 2013 there were 33,636 Americans killed by guns, but none by land mines. The inference, and the conclusion I want you to draw, is land mines must be very safe, because they don't kill people. Due to their extremely safe nature people should be free to place land mines in their front yards and on the nature strip. Agree Issy. It is the same argument you are using.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 6:11:38 AM
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Julian,

You were wrong, simply admit it.

Paul,

I deal in facts not fictions.
Did you ask Shoebridge why he voted against strengthening the gun laws?
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 8:35:00 AM
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Issy, the Greens are wise to the Shooters and Hooters moves to trade their vote in return for relaxation of gun laws. This was the case In 2012 when the Coalition government did a dirty deal with the 'Two Bobs' of Shooters and Hooters fame to get legislation through Parliament to privatize the state’s electricity generators. They cut a disgusting deal with the Shooters MPs that exchanged their vote for privatization in return for opening up National Parks for recreational hunting!

The smoke screen legislation you prattle on about, put up by the Shooters and Hooters, which is not supported by the Greens or the two major parties is about mandatory sentencing and not gun control. Its designed to give the Shooters some oomph with the public that they favour gun control, when they do nothing of the kind!

BTW, I understand Issy, you cannot disclose secret communications between the North American Command and your local chapter of the NRA. Leo's is probably in the same boat.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 9:19:11 AM
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Paul,

"The smoke screen legislation you prattle on about, put up by the Shooters and Hooters, which is not supported by the Greens or the two major parties is about mandatory sentencing and not gun control."

It was to strengthen the gun laws by increasing the penalties for criminal use of firearms.

Regardless of what the major parties felt, why didn't the Greens support this strengthening of the gun laws?
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 10:30:08 AM
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Paul1405,

Your clown routine and the ambulance-chasing, scab-picking*, gutter-dwelling NSW 'Eastern Bloc' Greens exhibit a complete disregard for the known risks of sensationalising mass murders. But of course that is not of concern where scrabbling for cans to kick for political headlines is concerned. Soon the Greens days of bare-backing gays for headlines will be over and that leaves a topic vacuum for the Greens.

*Particularly where the Greens and Soros' 'gun control' activists keep re-visiting the subject and giving headlines to the grub held in gaol.

You have been quite incapable of demonstrating where Howard's boasted 'Aussie' version of Soros' 'gun control' might have stopped or even laid a glove on the LA murderer. The answer is that 'gun control' is the empty rhetoric of wedge-driving politicians. For contrast, it is only risk- and evidence-based regulation of people that is effective and on top of that, good policing and intel. But the Soros 'gun control' has hundreds of police at desks on the bureaucratic, unproductive busywork of white elephant firearms registries that have never solved a crime and never will either. Nor are the Greens so supportive of police, where they also use the same false comparison tactic with US examples of 'police brutality, often fake news, as was the claimed 'hands-up' police shooting, to sledge Australian police.

As an initiative, what about the scurrilous, unscrupulous and hypocritical ambulance-chasing Greens and other publicity hunting grubs cease using the LA killer for headlines and encouraging copy cats in the process?

"Unethical Media Encourage More and Worse Mass Shootings"
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=7960
Posted by leoj, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 11:11:01 AM
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Hi there STEELEREDUX...

I believe you're being inordinately hard on our colleague IS MISE, especially over the number of F/A's he admits to owning.

Thinking purely as a licensing sergeant would do, and with a complete absence of emotion, there would be none of the F/A's he's listed, that would cause any concern whatsoever for police. In fact his assortment of weapons, would be considered, when compared to many others, as being relatively ordinary. Certainly none with which you could realistically mount a prolonged siege!

Surprisingly, the shooting fraternity in Oz is quite large, with many people taking part in a vast array of disciplines. Moreover it's an Olympic sport, so it does possess a great deal of gravitas among the World's Olympic Movement.

For this reason; we, in fact the world should not, allow the murderous rampages that regularly occur in the United States, to sully a hitherto, noble and well regarded sport. One that is regularly pursued by many decent, ordinary individuals, to a point that it's inexorably driven into extinction.

As long as we ensure the necessary regulations are strictly maintained and observed, we should not encounter too many problems. And as I'm sure you're already aware, most serious gun crime in the country, emanates from the illicit gun market, usually controlled by the illustrious 1%'ers.

As I indicated earlier; I have no idea how one could possibly stop gun crimes, similar to that we've all just witnessed in Las Vegas; and earlier; Sandy Hook, and many other atrocities we regularly see occurring in America. I love America, I love Americans. Surely though, if this madness doesn't stop, the United States of America will die. It's so damn sad, it really is.
Posted by o sung wu, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 1:33:13 PM
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Australia, like NZ has large number of firearms and firearms licensed AND Australia, like NZ has minuscule gun violence, in fact among the lowest in the world.

That was before Howard and it continues after Howard, with the gun offences trending downwards before Howard and maintaining that downward trend to this day.

Were it not for the feckless, international stage strutting clowns in the federal parliament and the unnecessary Ponzie scheme of mass immigration with the diversity tail wagging the immigration policy dog, the firearm offences would be so insignificant as to not warrant mention. But alas, Australia is now one of the highest users of illicit drugs in the world and the firearms and violence offending, incl guns, come with the drug trafficking gangs.

Mass Homicides
The media, politicians and their idiotic commentariat and spin merchants, should eschew the easy, slimy, ambulance chasing and posturing and realise (as I am sure they are already aware but don't care) that they themselves are contributing to a problem and should discover a few principles at long last. Obviously, ego, audience numbers and advertising profits come before lives,

http://www.reportingonmassshootings.org/
Posted by leoj, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 1:54:36 PM
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o sung wu,

Regarding your last para above.

When politics gets involved, intervenes, you get nowhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyXHnjOgM3s
Here is a knowledgeable, experienced and well spoken Sheriff David Clark who is being interviewed. But he is continually being interrupted and spoken over, often cannot get a word in edgeways and there are four, the host as well, who see themselves as pitted against him. He is there to give the facts to the public. But they are there to foster conflict, assert their idealism and make that obvious in every way.

View the whole interview. It is short and it shows the struggle that the many good, experienced and astute people who are on the ground have in trying to communicate and better inform the public, but where the media and its hangers-on are so unprofessional and unashamedly political. Frankly, Australia's ABC does no better where its adversarial, self-opinionated celebrity interviewers are concerned.

Many of the mass murders seek fame, to go out with a bang and be known and feared forever. Guess who make that dream come true and for the next one waiting in the wings?
Posted by leoj, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 3:22:50 PM
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Hi there LEOJ...

Thank you for your citation apropos David CLARK trying to provided 'the facts' to an audience all the while he's being continually interrupted by the host and others. In response to that small illustration, I'll quote one of the Commissioners of the AFP, a Major General Ronald GREY, a very astute military man and a decorated Vietnam Veteran. He was quoted as saying '...he'd rather confront a full company of well trained NVA soldiers, than one member of the Australian media!

As a Police Commissioner, he was apparently fearless. Yet with any one in the media, he was utterly lost; often being misquoted, flummoxed by trick questioning; and generally embarrassed whenever possible. This was not unusual. The media want a story, not the precise facts. Most police of my former rank had nothing but disdain and abhorrence for most of those employed in the media, and there's little wonder why? Thanks Leo.
Posted by o sung wu, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 4:31:39 PM
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Dear o sung wu,

I'm afraid I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this.

Firstly to Is mise. If I had my way any nutter who thought the Port Arthur massacre was some sort of plot to rid Australians of their guns would be immediately ineligible to own a firearm full stop. To me it indicates a mental illness, a good measure of conspiratorial paranoia, and an ability to comprehensively distort falsehood into so called facts. Now I'm not exactly sure how far down that toxic path Is Mise lies but I know from his earlier postings that it is aways.

The Las Vegas killer was a hunter and a sporting shooter. Mise. He was not a criminal. Up until this incident he was for every indication a completely normal citizen who enjoyed collecting and using firearms, much like our Is Mise.

You yourself earlier put this;

“Personally, I would argue a person would not have a legitimate need, for more than six F/A's, notwithstanding the enthusiasm he might have for the sport. And on past appeals quoting excessive F/A's, I reckon police would've been successful in almost 70 - 75% of the time.”

I fully agree.

So why wouldn't you want to see a mandated limit placed on the number of weapons and individual can own?

As to me being too hard on Is Mise I'm afraid I have taken to conversing with others in the tone they themselves adopt. He is pugnacious, bullying, dismissive, belittling and abusive. If you feel I have overstepped the parameters he has set then I would welcome you flagging it to me and I will undertake to modify my behaviour.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 4:43:00 PM
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it puzzles me how those wanting to ban guns want to legalise drugs. Somehow they think the character of druggies is more noble than farmers.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 4:53:55 PM
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SteeleRedux: "As to me being too hard on Is Mise I'm afraid I have taken to conversing with others in the tone they themselves adopt. He is pugnacious, bullying, dismissive, belittling and abusive. If you feel I have overstepped the parameters he has set then I would welcome you flagging it to me and I will undertake to modify my behaviour."

Well said, Steele Redux. We the vast majority of the population are not a threat to their lives. They are an insistent threat to ours (and one another's as well, but that's of far less moment).
Posted by EmperorJulian, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 5:18:54 PM
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Hi there STEELEREDUX...

It's not the number of F/A's he has, it's their capacity to do 'real harm'. Let me explain; some of his weapons are S.S. A couple are Handguns, others are Black Powder. His .303 would be, I suppose the most powerful of all his weapons. And probably the most accurate is his .220 Swift, which also a S.S.

What I'm trying to say, very badly I admit; If it was his intention to do something unlawful, he would need to add several other weapons to his current inventory. Because what has, albeit lethal, wouldn't be the most appropriate selection of F/A's to undertake anything near to a Las Vegas event. And I'd be very surprised indeed, if any licensing authority in the Country, would mount any objection to his current F/A inventory.

It's also quite unfair to 'unload a ton of emotion' upon another, who just happens to enjoy using F/A's as a legitimate pastime.

Many people I know like chocolate, as do I! One of the most heinous criminals ever to continue to breathe air in this country, will do *anything* for chocolate. His name is Martin BRYANT current address 'Risdon' Prison, Tasmania. Because BRYANT likes chocolate should we all vilify and malign others who like chocolate?
Posted by o sung wu, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 5:58:48 PM
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Stelle and Julian,

Keep it up, your inventiveness is always amusing.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 7:10:39 PM
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//He is pugnacious, bullying, dismissive, belittling and abusive.//

Perhaps, but he is forthright and direct, for which I must give him credit.

Meanwhile, his more cunning and weaselly lackey, leoj, is trying his hardest to divert & deflect by blaming it all on those naughty journalists. Because shooting the messenger is always a good solution to a problem. Never mind the fact crazed gunmen aren't frequently going on rampages in countries that print/air these sensationalist stories but don't allow every Tom, Harry or Dick to readily acquire vast arsenals of high-powered semi-automatics.

Are the NRA paying you to spin for them, leoj, or do you just do it voluntarily, providing charity to poor, put-upon wealthy arms merchants?
Posted by Toni Lavis, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 7:24:19 PM
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All the gun freaks can come up with is sneers, without a single constructive suggestion that would spare the lives of the 30 thousand-plus Yanks shot dead every year, and without a single admission that their lives are worth sparing. It's pretty clear who our enemies are.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 7:24:31 PM
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Toni Lavis,

Always happy to oblige with the link again. Scroll down through it, there is more than one page. Although the very first page top left does give what you ask.

http://www.reportingonmassshootings.org/
Posted by leoj, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 7:54:05 PM
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Julian,

"All the gun freaks can come up with is sneers, without a single constructive suggestion that would spare the lives of the 30 thousand-plus Yanks shot dead every year, and without a single admission that their lives are worth sparing. It's pretty clear who our enemies are"

"How many people were killed by guns in 2015?
All shootings: Some 13,286 people were killed in the US by firearms in 2015, according to the Gun Violence Archive, and 26,819 people were injured [those figures exclude suicide]. Those figures are likely to rise by several hundred, once incidents in the final week of the year are counted."

Where did you get the figure of thirty thousand?
Are they Steele's 'Homicides' or do you just exaggerate on general principles?

"The solution is quite simple, have a binding referendum of the American voters on changing the Constitution ref. reversing the Second Amendment.
Then abide by the democratic decision.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 7 October 2017 6:21:30 PM"

Was that not a constructive suggestion?
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 8:10:27 PM
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//The solution is quite simple, have a binding referendum of the American voters on changing the Constitution ref. reversing the Second Amendment.//

Unnecessary. The 2nd Amendment just says 'the right to bear arms', not 'the right to bear whichever arms you want, with no strings attached'. The American Government just needs to stipulate tighter restrictions on which particular arms may be borne by civilians, and the manner in which they may be borne.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 8:21:20 PM
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Toni,

The American Government already does ban certain arms from civilian use, notably machine guns and all other arms capable of automatic fire, including 'assault' rifles.
It would be hard to justify banning pistols, rifles and shotguns as they were the arms that were in common use at the time.
As for the method of bearing them the only options are openly or concealed and that doesn't leave any leeway
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 8:51:11 PM
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Is Mise asks:
"Where did you get the figure of thirty thousand?
Are they Steele's 'Homicides' or do you just exaggerate on general principles?"

Where I got the figures was from somebody's post. Now when was it? Whose was it?

Oh I know, it was in this thread on October 9 2017 at 10:56:52 PM. The exact figure was 33,636. Whose post was it?

Well....I'm afraid it was Is Mise's
Posted by EmperorJulian, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 9:00:38 PM
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Is Mise assures us: "The American Government already does ban certain arms from civilian use, notably machine guns and all other arms capable of automatic fire, including 'assault' rifles."

Oh, they are S T R I C T, aren't they. They still ban Gatling guns and Sherman tanks, too. For now.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 9:09:27 PM
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//It would be hard to justify banning pistols, rifles and shotguns as they were the arms that were in common use at the time.//

Not the ones that were invented after 1791. So no more semi-automatics, they can have muskets instead.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 9:31:47 PM
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Dear o sung wu,

Sorry again old chap but we are going to disagree on this as well.

Firstly it is not Is Mise's capacity to do harm that I am really worried about. I think the threat from that quarter is highly unlikely. However an arsenal of 14 weapons must surely be a tempting target for our criminal classes and I resent that target being offered. Is Mise's response would be that we need to increase the penalties for gun theft but that is denying his responsibility. His hobby by its very nature puts other Australians at risk. His response would be that they need to be armed to protect themselves which of course is an inane, self-serving and circular.

A .22 calibre weapon in close quarters is still extremely deadly. It might not serve as a weapon of choice if you are targeting a crowd below a casino. However it is the most common weapon used in homicides, suicides and accidental shootings in Australia.

A 22 was Ivan Milat's primary weapon. Cliff Bartholomew killed 10 in South Australia in 1971 with a 22. In 1981 Fred Daoud killed 5 in NSW with a .22 before turning it on himself. In 1993 Leonard Leabeater and Robert Steele (no relation) killed 5 with 22s in Cangai, NSW.

I am not inclined to dismiss Is mise's stockpile of weapons quite as easily as you are. These are not chocolates but weapons of the type that have murdered numerous Australians devestating the lives of countless others.

Am I being overly emotive? Perhaps. But I'm not inclined to reside from any of it. His 'hobby' puts other Australians at risk. I am perfectly happy to engage with him on other topics in an even handed manner but not this one. Particularly when he has claimed in the past that the Port Arthur shooter may well have been right handed while Bryant was left handed. It is dangerous and deluded nonsense deserving of scorn and repugnance.

Dear Is Mise,

Can a civilian purchase a fully automatic weapon in the US? Yes or no.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 9:57:12 PM
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Julian,

"Oh I know, it was in this thread on October 9 2017 at 10:56:52 PM. The exact figure was 33,636. Whose post was it?

Well....I'm afraid it was Is Mise's"

Very cute but as usual misleading, that figure includes suicides.

Steele,

"Can a civilian purchase a fully automatic weapon in the US? Yes or no"

Yes.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 10:50:24 PM
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Toni,

Fully automatic muskets existed before 1791 as did machine guns.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 10:55:04 PM
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//Fully automatic muskets existed before 1791 as did machine guns.//

Oh all right then, let them have Puckle guns as well. But they're only allowed to use the square bullets.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 11:17:44 PM
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Issy, I have checked, and again you are wrong. At no time have the Greens voted against any gun control legislation in NSW. The only party to consistently oppose gun control in this state is the Shooters and Hooters. led by that pair of talking heads, the 'Two Bobs'.

Again I ask, since the Las Vegas massacre has the Australian chapter of the NRA had any communication with the high command in America, as to how to manage damage control over the outrage? You seem to be doing your very best.

What is your view on instigating annual psychiatric assessments of gunnies in Australia. Particularly those Stephen Paddock types who are hoarding mega cache's of weapons, some have several hundred. Such people cannot be considered mentally stable. Agree?
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 3:42:10 AM
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Paul,

Playing with words won't get you off the hook.
The Greens opposed stiffer penalties for criminal use of firearms thus refusing to strengthen the gun laws.

Sure some people have a lot of guns, I have seen some big collections.
Many collectors have all of their firearms registered, even though they don't need to legally but having them registered helps with insurance.
Then there are all those registered firearms which are only part of a firearm, will never be a full firearm, can't by any stretch of the imagination be fired and are less dangerous than a house brick.

Toni,

Full marks on the Puckle!
I was thinking of the Roman Candle type gun which is fully automatic.
The oldest revolver in the world may have been produced as early as 1597, and was owned by Norwegian general George von Reichwein.
Repeating magazine fed pistols date from the 1600s, so most of the concepts are already there by the 1790s
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 8:23:45 AM
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Julian,

"Is Mise assures us: "The American Government already does ban certain arms from civilian use, notably machine guns and all other arms capable of automatic fire, including 'assault' rifles."

Oh, they are S T R I C T, aren't they. They still ban Gatling guns and Sherman tanks, too. For now."

They are strict, but Gatling guns are not banned as, despite being the first really successful machine gun, they are not legally machine guns and can be owned by civilians both in the USA and here in Australia; the same goes for Sherman (or any other) tanks.

Don't let your tongue, or as here, your typing finger, do your thinking.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 8:52:21 AM
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Issy, the lesson about all those monster murder weapons is very interesting. However you did not comment about the need for annual psychiatric assessments of crazed gunnies, it could be a good idea. Nor did you give anything away about your secret communications with the North American high command. what's going on there?

Can't you own a Sherman tank? Not even for hunting varmints? What if the neighbours get stroppy, how do you straighten them out? I say point the old Sherman through their lounge room window and down their cake hole, that will soon shut them up! Agree

BTW; Norwegian General George von Reichweinm didn't he go mad, and shoot himself several times?
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 10:18:08 AM
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As long as a citizen is a fit and proper person I cannot see any logical reason why s/he shouldn't be allowed to own any legal firearm and any number of them. For the last mentioned, possession above a certain number brings in much more severe safe storage requirements.

What risk is there is a person owning a number of .22 calibre and for no better reason than 'just because'? S/he can only use one at a time anyhow.

This is where the headline hunting Greens are clueless and blindly follow the free buckets of propaganda, full of lies, put out by billionaire currency dealer Soros' outfit.

Just as a reminder, of course Soros and his billionaire mates would very much prefer that the media chase after the political sham of 'gun control' (in lieu of robust, effective regulation based on evidence/risk) rather than look at why those African American youths join drug-trafficking gangs early and are used as enforcers, killing others like themselves to win gang membership and advancement. Cycles of poverty and cycles of gang membership and violent deaths.

It really wouldn't do to have headlines about the top few percent taking all while everyone else budgets to live (or commits crime to do so).
Posted by leoj, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 10:21:37 AM
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contd..
While it is truly disgusting that the cynical Greens are only out to find cans to kick now that their barebacking on Gays is nearly over, they are also joined by others like LNP Leader and PM(!) Malcolm Turnbull and even more recently, Qld Labor Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk, who find 'US gun culture' a useful distraction for the media and public when they have smelly diapers themselves and and are ducking questions. Annastasia has found a 'problem' with ancient design lever action firearms, shotguns. Better than talking about the booming gangs and kids rotten with drugs and harming themselves, or indigenous DV.

Labor's Annastasia Palaszczuk is possibly the only political leader in history to have the outlaw motorcycle gangs openly demanding political paybacks for their support in her political campaign that very narrowly won government for Labor in Qld. Her first priority, even above her rush to lower the age for consent for anal sex, was to 'deep six' the successful anti-gang law, the Vicious Lawless Association Disestablishment (VLAD) law that was putting the drug manufacturing and trafficking bikies out of business.

There is an election, so Premier Annastasia Palaszczuk rides the LA tragedy to 'ban' a shotgun by tweaking its category. But she and Greens are highly protective of the 'rights' of those drug gangs. Folks, that's 'gun control' for you!
Posted by leoj, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 10:23:02 AM
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Paul,

I'd be in favour of psychiatric assessment for all MsP, particularly the Greens.
Also in favour of all MsP being checked for drugs and booze before speaking or voting in their relevant Houses.
Not safe to drive a car, then not safe to run a country, or part thereof.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 10:46:19 AM
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The Yank NRA rep:

"'Oh I know, it was in this thread on October 9 2017 at 10:56:52 PM. The exact figure was 33,636. Whose post was it?

"' Well....I'm afraid it was Is Mise's'"

"Very cute but as usual misleading, that figure includes suicides."

My exact words were "30 thousand-plus Yanks shot dead every year".
What part of that was misleading?

It was the Yank NRA rep, not I, who sought to mislead by confining gun deaths to 11 thousand MURDERS which means Yanks shot dead are not actuality dead unless someone gets convicted of murdering them. The Yank NRA would have a problem explaining, face to face, to the dead person's rellies that their loved one is not really dead and anyway hadn't really been hit by a bullet fired from a gun.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 2:37:19 PM
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This has just appeared on the ABC "Just In" site

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-11/gun-data-shows-extent-of-private-arsenals-in-suburban-australia/9038350

The ONLY plausible explanation for this network of stashes is that the Yank NRA's NSW chapter is actively preparing for a violent uprising on a parallel with the murderer Jesse James' reign of terror in the USA after the North failed to try and execute the traitors who led the "Confederate" war against America in the 1860s.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 3:22:39 PM
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The simple answer is NOTHING! FULL STOP!

You see Americans who own guns are of the opinion that guns are not dangerous and when you see the likes of idiots ramming people in trucks then I guess they have a point.

Any US president who dare take away gun ownership rights will most likely be assassinated. That's the problem.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 3:40:49 PM
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Hi there STEELEREDUX...

I've run out of puff to be honest with you. It's not a topic that will be easily argued or discussed.
Many things in modern life are capable of inflicting fatal injuries or death without resorting to the use of a gun. A carefully timed heavily laden truck can take out at least half a dozen or more on a busy Friday afternoon in a Sydney pedestrian thoroughfare, even more if well planned.

How then can we reduce this type of threat. It's at the base of human nature I'm afraid, surely if a person wishes to render severe harm to others, it's really not that hard to circumvent any and all, security measures designed to prevent it? We're now living in a new age of risk, where even a gun wont be able to protect us!
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 5:03:52 PM
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o sung wu,

I wouldn't get too down and depressed. Where Australia is concerned it is just the same old 'switcheroo' of propagandists, where the NSW Greens and a few 'gun control' activists (who refused to answer direct questions from the Australian Senate on their membership), are pretending that what is happening a half a world away is actually happening in Australia, which of course it isn't.

They do the same thing where they sledge Australian police for alleged, usually fake news reports of 'police brutality' in the US.

They do the same thing where they criticise President Trump and heavily imply that the same alleged wrongs are being committed by their target in Australia, be that Abbott, Turnbull or whoever.

It is all shabby political spin, propaganda.

As for the US, you can be confident that the media is always concentrating on the bad news. The LA incident was shocking, but out of over 340 million there will be grubs who might be encouraged by the stupid rhetoric of idiot and unethical politicians and media. It is up to us to criticise the cynical Oz political grubs who are short on ethics and principle. We need to insist on this as the minimum standard for reporting and denounce grubby politicians who chase ambulances,

http://www.reportingonmassshootings.org/
Posted by leoj, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 6:29:56 PM
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EJ, it must be of the most worrying concern to all good folk, that large numbers of gunnies are stockpiling large numbers of guns. For what purpose. it is obvious. To quote leoj, a supporter of a well armed private citizens militia;

"I (leoj) cannot see any logical reason why s/he shouldn't be allowed to own any legal firearm and any number of them."

No doubt primed and ready for when leoj puts out the call to arms!

Issy, I answered all your questions, can't you give us even a little bow-peep into what instructions you have been given by your North American command.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 6:42:47 PM
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Dear o sung wu.

Don't sweat it mate. We have all had our say and I'm not sure the real gun nuts are every going to modify their positions whatever is said here. It is kind of depressing that it will probably take another slaughter here before the tide of gun law dismantling gets turn around. Which is a pity because some strong political will could have stood up to the gun lobby and preserved what it took 35 innocent lives to achieve. It just hasn't happened.

On a lighter note I'm wondering if you have availed yourself of the Australian comedian Jim Jefferies and his take on the American gun laws. If you haven't then please do so. Sometime it is our jokers who get away with telling the truth to entrenched cultures where the rest of us couldn't go there. He liberally uses profanity so perhaps not watching this around sensitive ears is advised.

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9UFyNy-rw4
Posted by SteeleRedux, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 7:10:45 PM
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Paul1405,

You need to lay off that wacky baccy.
Posted by leoj, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 7:11:45 PM
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Julian,

"My exact words were "30 thousand-plus Yanks shot dead every year".
What part of that was misleading?"

As the subject under discussion is murders, then throwing in suicides is misleading and as you originally said "....thirty thousand gun homicides"
and suicide is not considered homicide or murder then you are either stupid or being deliberately misleading, personally, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I note that no one has issued any solution to the use and manufacture of a portable 1.25kJ Coilgun ; it's silent, all easily obtained components particularly ammunition.
Ditto the The “CG-42” Gauss Machine Gun, which is a first-of-its kind full-auto, 8-stage coilgun powered by Lithium Polymer batteries.

This is a better link
http://www.deltaveng.com/

Although the inventor says that these guns will not kill, they are, none the less, lethal weapons in Australia, still they are subject to development and new ideas.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 8:29:29 PM
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Thanks Steele, watched Jim Jefferies, and his black comedy delivers a most disturbing message that any thinking person can understand.

Leoj, your ill founded far right anything goes view on guns should be of real concern. Give those who hold the same views as you, people like One Nation and others within the Australian gun lobby, a free hand to dictate to the rest of us on the subject, and we would all have something to fear. Luckily you're not in control, and fortunatly not likely to be any time soon.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 8:33:02 PM
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at the other end of the present spectrum, is the U.S. Military's Most Powerful Cannon - Electromagnetic Railgun - Shoots 100 miles - Mach 7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i737rM6FxqE

What's the betting there isn't already something in-between?
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 8:41:09 PM
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Hi there LEOJ & STEELEREDUX...

Thank you for your encouragement Leo, and presenting your opposite viewpoint STEELEREDUX. I think the gun debate, irrespective of whatever side you're on, is one debate that's almost impossible to prosecute, despite how logical and academic one might be?

One thing I think we all need to remember, guns kill that is precisely what they're designed to do. That old chestnut, it's not the gun that kills but the man in control of that gun that does the damage. All true, irrespective of what side is in the ascendancy.

Another thing too; a gun in the hands of a meek person, makes that person courageous. And a weakling, inordinately strong. No matter how many times I strapped my gun on, it demanded respect, and it got it from me!
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 9:15:35 PM
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SteelRedux's foul comedian is misled as many public are, by irresponsible and of course unscientific claims that Howard's 'gun control' somehow prevents mass shootings.

In fact what is at work there is two things, the first being the usual lumps in numbers of random events and the second, the Regression Fallacy. I have explained both previously and given examples to the numbnuts who continue to spruik the lie of Howard's gun control. For any here who are interested,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_fallacy

The question all here should be asking is what would it take for them to change their mind on the sham of that imported political scam of 'gun control', which is merely the banning and compulsory confiscation if necessary at the point of a gun, of the assets legally acquired, legally held and legally used by ordinary citizens. That is the totalitarianism that Australians fought against in wars and migrants moved here to get away from.

Further, 'gun control' does not lay a glove on offenders and is uninterested in detection and arrest of criminals. Gun control is targeted exclusively at bans and confiscations affecting the law-abiding, licensed citizen. That is why you never hear the Greens for example, supporting higher penalties for illegal possession and illegal firearms ie penalties that affect criminals.

On the other hand, all citizens (except the authoritarian leftists) expect and accept regulation that is based on risk analysis and evidence and is fair.
Posted by leoj, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 9:24:37 PM
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Yank NRA rep: "the subject under discussion is murders"

No, the Yank NRA may claim this, but the subject under discussion is guns.

"Only" 11 thousand Yanks are deliberately shot dead by other Yanks each year (neither here nor there, the gun freaks would dismissively assert) but 30 thousand plus Yanks are shot dead each year as a result of the slave owners' and Injun hunters'constitution.

A plebiscite in THIS country would almost certainly opt for a gun-free Australia, especially if voters are clearly warned in the run up to the poll that there are multiple stashes of hundreds of guns in Australia awaiting use by gun freaks.

Not sure how such a plebiscite would go in America - depends on how many Yanks are stupid enough to believe guns would defend them from government tyranny.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Thursday, 12 October 2017 12:07:17 AM
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Eleven thousand gun murders every year is 300 gun murders EVERY DAY.
30 thousand Americans shot dead every year is 80 family tragedies every day. Terrorising slaves and killing native Americans is sure having its blowback.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Thursday, 12 October 2017 12:21:48 AM
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on the other hand US munitions industry is helping improve the 'merican economy and making more room for immigration into the 'land of the free' .....so it's not all bad news
Posted by ilmessaggio, Thursday, 12 October 2017 3:29:45 AM
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My arithmetic: 11 thousand gun murders a year (as if the outcome for human beings was any different from other Yanks shot dead) is 30 a day, not 300. The overall gun death figure on a daily basis remains 80.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Thursday, 12 October 2017 5:08:36 AM
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Issy, which gun do you believe is the safest to be shot dead with?

"Electromagnetic Railgun - Shoots 100 miles - Mach 7" have you ordered yours from the Sears and Roebuck yet, they can have it to you in Dodge City on the first available stage.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 12 October 2017 6:28:28 AM
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Paul,

The point is, what is the Government going to do to stop the making and use of electromagnetic guns; what are the Greens and Gun Control Australia's three members going to do?

I see a problem.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 12 October 2017 6:45:20 AM
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Issy. it is a huge battle to defeat the powerful gun lobby, who are well organized, cashed up and determined to get their own way, at the expense of all others.
Gun control is not a battle we can afford to lose, just look at America to see the results of such a loss; massacres, thousands killed annually, with gun carnage common place. Australia wants none of that, and our politicians are going to have to grasp the nettle whenever a new challenge presents itself. these electromagnetic guns are just another such challenge.

Gun control might have 3 members, but they have 24 million supporters. How much support does the gun mob have in Australia? Judging by election results I would say about 2%.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 12 October 2017 7:39:41 AM
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Paul,

The problem with electromagnetic guns is that there does not appear to be any way to control their manufacture.

The small ones shewn in the videos are, despite the makers claims to the contrary, capable of killing, especially the full auto one; any thing that can throw a projectile capable of the penetration shewn could kill.

I wouldn't like to see these types of weapons hit the streets.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 12 October 2017 9:56:00 AM
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STOP PRESS!!

John Howard admits failure of his gun laws.

Howard warns voters not to support the SF&F Party in a frank admission that his vaunted laws have failed.

The Father of the Australian gun lobby disowns his child.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 12 October 2017 6:53:53 PM
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Put up the evidence for your claim!

STOP PRESS Issy is speculating as usual, This is what Issy thinks, John Howard thinks. All wishful thinking!
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 12 October 2017 8:17:26 PM
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Paul,

The Libs and the Nats are running scared about Saturday's elections.

The Telegraph today headlined "Howard Sprays".
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 12 October 2017 8:53:54 PM
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I know I have asked the question on another article on guns and all the furore surrounding it. I choose to come from a different direction; and that is, Who upset this guy so much that it led him to act in this manner. In the past it has always come back to some govt crap, because if it was the common people i'd like to think he would take out the individuals who denied him. As for everyone running around flapping on about getting rid of guns, (I am not into guns BTW), it is so short sighted of everyone. As if that's going to make any difference. If I wanted to do the same or more damage with less bluster and noise I would use my son's drone loaded with any kind of explosive and fly it into the target area. You can fill in the rest. As some of you already know these things can fly in formation, thereby adding to the massacre. Having said this, I do not get why attack innocent people, was someone in the audience his target? After looking into some of these cases, it seems that govt's or some govt department is to blame. We may never know because if it does go back to the govt or an official it will be hushed up like all the others. Just a theory.
Posted by ALTRAV, Thursday, 12 October 2017 9:04:35 PM
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Dear Is Mise,

Stop talking trash.

Howard rightly said;

“The Shooters’ first priority is to fundamentally weaken our existing firearms laws, introduced by the Howard-Fischer government after the Port Arthur tragedy,” Mr Howard writes.

“We can’t take a risk on a party with such dangerous policies.”

Spot on!

You are just another one of these deluded nut jobs intent on putting Australian lives at risk because of your hobby. What a selfish attitude to take.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 12 October 2017 9:08:49 PM
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Steele,

"You are just another one of these deluded nut jobs intent on putting Australian lives at risk because of your hobby. What a selfish attitude to take"

Do tell!!
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 12 October 2017 9:56:50 PM
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ALTRAV,

Maybe he just wanted to go down in the history books.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 12 October 2017 10:00:01 PM
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ALTRAV,

Agreed, the 'why' is far more important than the 'how'. The monster had other methods already reported, such as explosives and arson, with other possibles not yet known.

Predictably the ambulance chasers are in there early to frame the debate, score political points and to get publicity for themselves, dancing in the blood of the victims as it were. They are uninterested in the 'why', having a vested interest in their own publicity and secondary agenda.

At this point as such creeps manipulate the media and politicians and get in the way of the police investigation, wonders to what degree they share the sociopathy of the monster that committed these dreadful offences against humanity.
Posted by leoj, Friday, 13 October 2017 12:14:55 AM
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Dropped a word,
"At this point as such creeps manipulate the media and politicians and get in the way of the police investigation, ONE wonders to what degree they share the sociopathy of the monster that committed these dreadful offences against humanity."
Posted by leoj, Friday, 13 October 2017 12:16:39 AM
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Oh! Issy, now I now know where you get your deluded nonsense from. You are an avid reader of Murdoch's gutter press. Is your copy of 'The Daily Telecrap' home delivered every morning. ready for consumption with your brekkie bowl of 'Fruit Loops' down at your residence The Happy Gardens Care facility. Quoting the machinations of Piers Arkerman. the lovely Miranda Devine and none other than Andy (Beat Up} Bolt! I can't believe it! But true.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 13 October 2017 3:29:45 AM
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Listen to this sanctimonious clap trap from leoj; "dancing in the blood of the victims". This bloke is a pro gun, anything goes type, who believes in such nonsense as a well armed, privately controlled, citizens militia. He can't deny it as he posted it under another nick onthebeach, which he buried so he could pop up as the sanctimonious clean skin leoj. Another quote from the know it all;
"I (leoj) cannot see any logical reason why s/he shouldn't be allowed to own any legal firearm and any number of them." This could be a direct reference to the Las Vegas killer Stephan Paddock. And he has the hide to deride the Greens and anyone else who is for gun control.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 13 October 2017 4:02:41 AM
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Paul1405 makes it so obvious that the sooner Richard Di Natale grows some stiffness in his spine and shows the door to the troublesome, loose-cannon NSW 'Eastern Bloc' Greens stirrers the better it will be for the Greens and for NSW.
Posted by leoj, Friday, 13 October 2017 9:47:27 AM
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paul,

Have you consulted with Shoebridge yet to find a solution to electromagnetism as applied to firearms?

There are instructions on the net on how to make them.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 13 October 2017 9:56:46 AM
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Dear Is Mise,

you wrote;

"Do tell!!"

I think I just did.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 13 October 2017 5:32:13 PM
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http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/girl-6-taken-from-bed-and-punched-in-the-face-during-disturbing-logan-home-invasion-20171016-p4ywhk.html

I say we should be allowed guns to defend ourselves and family.
This stuff is just wrong...
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 16 October 2017 9:44:20 PM
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Why a gun to defend yourself and your family, i am sure there are more severe means of defense than your suggestion.

The second amendment was written for cow boys, and is upheld by cow boys.
Times change and so must the Constitution.
Posted by doog, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 5:04:29 PM
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Doog, as an older, not so physical person anymore, I would like to take up your point about 'why guns'. I don't need to say too much in defense of guns at my age. The reason us 'oldies' are OK with guns is that, we don't want to get anywhere near a 'baddie'. So if we are challenged we caution them that if they come any closer they WILL be shot! We have had a few such cases here where one such case the old couple locked themselves in a room, (bedroom I think) and the baddie was bashing down the door to get to them. The old man yelled at him to stop and go away or he would shoot, more than once. He didn't and the old man did. The garbage died. So many people celebrated, until the arseholes decided to arrest him for murder. Well the public came out and whether the police had decided already or not, the charges were downgraded to caution or similar for twelve months. So Doog, I am all for guns. What I am not for is a legal system with blinkers and bias. When I hear of old ladies getting bashed and RAPED WTF! I want that bastard strung up by the neck and let victims of crime do WHATEVER they want to him, with one proviso, that they don't stop till he is dead. So leave the guns and lets focus on the problem people.
Posted by ALTRAV, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 7:53:58 PM
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Citizens and others in Australia have the legal right to defend themselves against unlawful attack.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 8:25:22 PM
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Is Mise, you are right, up to a point. Yes we do have the right to defend ourselves but, and here's the kicker. it must be 'like for like'. This law only highlights the absolute stupidity and ignorance of those elected to make decisions on our behalf. What this means is if someone attacks you with a baseball bat you MUST protect yourself with the same kind of weapon. What idiots! They need to be attacked with a baseball bat, then we'll see how keen they'l be to enforce that law. What absolute morons. I say NO, I'm not going to let this scum anywhere near me because he's likely to kill me. So I strongly promote the use of anything that gives me a distance advantage over the scum. And if he dies in the process, even better. A perfect result. The public don't have to feed and look after him and another pieces of excrement has been removed. Just think of all the old folk who will not be attacked in the future. We can begin to sleep at night once again.
Posted by ALTRAV, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 8:45:44 PM
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ALTRAV,

In NSW one only needs to fear for one's life, there is no 'like for like' about it.
Anyone threatened with a baseball bat or similar would be in fear for their life, as one blow can kill.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 9:03:49 PM
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Armchair Critic: "I say we should be allowed guns to defend ourselves and family."

Gun-owning householder to armed intruder: "Hang on while I rummage around in the gun cupboard"

Armed intruder: "B A N G"
Posted by EmperorJulian, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 9:12:24 PM
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Emperor Julian, joke if you will. I at least would have a fighting chance compared to someone who rejects guns. In my case you can say I 'might' come out of it alive. Where-as the other guy without a gun will definitely 'NOT' come out alive, given the exact same circumstances.
Posted by ALTRAV, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 2:37:08 AM
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Just what we need, a bunch of old farts running around the community with guns.

"Ian Turnbull, 82, was sentenced to 35 years in prison after he was found guilty of murdering Glen Turner over a land dispute at Croppa Creek in July 2014. A spokeswoman for Corrective Services NSW confirmed Turnbull died in the Long Bay prison hospital."

We have enough irresponsible gun owners giving loaded guns to kids as it is;
"A man has been charged with firearms offences after a child was accidentally shot in the jaw and shoulder in the state’s southwest last month. The 12-year-old boy was visiting a friend’s property in Thuddungra, 15km north of Young, when the friend’s father allegedly asked the boys to return a .22 calibre rifle to a shed near the main house."
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 4:01:19 AM
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Paul, sorry I can't respond to your comments. Someone at forum central is having a stroke and for some reason I can't get passed this moron for quoting your words. So either you know someone in editing or these guys have lost the plot. Apparently when you wrote the words it was OK. When I try to respond by quoting your very words, I am told to 'remove the profanity'. Idiots, it's the same words. I'll catch up some time if I can be bothered. I tell you I would like to set up my own forum, only mine would allow people to speak their minds and do it in Australian. I would ban any hint of political correctness and in fact that would be my mission statement in a nutshell.
Posted by ALTRAV, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 5:32:09 AM
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//Just what we need, a bunch of old farts running around the community with guns.

"Ian Turnbull, 82, was sentenced to 35 years in prison after he was found guilty of murdering Glen Turner over a land dispute at Croppa Creek in July 2014. A spokeswoman for Corrective Services NSW confirmed Turnbull died in the Long Bay prison hospital."

We have enough irresponsible gun owners giving loaded guns to kids as it is;
"A man has been charged with firearms offences after a child was accidentally shot in the jaw and shoulder in the state’s southwest last month. The 12-year-old boy was visiting a friend’s property in Thuddungra, 15km north of Young, when the friend’s father allegedly asked the boys to return a .22 calibre rifle to a shed near the main house."//

Nope, no problem with that.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 6:13:40 AM
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One problem we now face is that kids no longer know how to safely handle a gun.

Of cause idiots are idiots and no amount of legislation can legislate against stupidity so accidents will always happen. In fact, there would not be an adult alive who is not aware of the risks of reversing down the driveway when kids are around, yet they sill get reversed over. What's the answer there, legislate that all minors must be housed inside prior to operating a vehicle on your driveway?

The one very distinctive fact here,is we are talking about America.

Having said that, I see no reason why semi auto/auto guns should remain easy to get as at least the only ones here are the illegal ones and no amount of legislation, other than mandatory prison sentencing will curb these. If there was a no exception set of laws for illegal gun possession, each carrying a prison sentence which increases in accordance with the weapon/number, things would change and change very quickly. Ten years no parole for semi auto/hand gun possession would be a huge deterrent I would suggest. But only here because nobody would be game to implement such laws in the US. And if people don't like it, there only option will be to move.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 7:41:06 AM
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Farmers are now prime targets for firearm theft as many legally own semi autos and many don't lock them away because it is impractical to do so. The police know this and often turn a blind eye as they know the laws are unworkable for farmers protecting livestock. Its become a grey area and one that is near on impossible to police, short of driving farmers off the land as one single mother fox can kill dozens of lambs in a single night so a loaded gun at hand is about the only option for farmers.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 7:45:44 AM
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Toni,
In the old days, apparently, it was normal for a 12y/o to be given a gun. But they were taught strict firearm safety, and it was drilled into them; if they didn't they'd eat standing up in the woodshed for the next month. These kids would take guns to school, take part in shooting activities at school and shoot rabbits or other animals on the way home, and no-one ever got shot.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 7:59:32 AM
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ALTRAV,

Take it from me, no one is censoring the forum, (except when someone steps well over the mark), I prefer the use of quotation marks ".....", but often when I use them the system gets upset and tells me to remove them.
Other people use / / or < > for quotes as they have presumably struck the same problem.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 8:23:22 AM
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Is Mise, thanks for your comments. I was very angry because I saw no consistency in the editing what-so-ever. My comments were not worthy of edit, and because the edit was aimed at the very words I was quoting in response to a previous commentors, I was just perplexed. It's just one of those moments which in my case, now make me look into setting up a forum, which I have considered for quite some time.
Posted by ALTRAV, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 9:36:19 AM
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<<In the old days, apparently, it was normal for a 12y/o to be given a gun>>. They were called boy soldiers, the British Army and others, made great use of children for cannon fodder. up to. and including WWI. In Africa children are still exploited and used as front line fighters in wars. Disgusting.
One of my favorite posters leoj, reminisced a while back about the "good old days" when pretend child soldiers. school cadets, carried guns on public transport. I suppose he seen them as a useful weapon in the fight against fare evaders.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 10:26:41 AM
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Don't worry ALTRAV, GY don't do me any favours when it comes to posting comments. nor should he. I'm sorry for using the word kids, its slang for children, sorrrrrry.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 10:32:40 AM
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Is there any logical reason why 10 year olds shouldn't be taught firearms safety and allowed to shoot under supervision?

That' all that has been proposed.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 11:01:20 AM
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Thank god we lived in more enlightened times before WW11. We had country kids who had known how to handle a rifle most of their lives, to form a militia & go stop the Japs on Kokoda.

We had better not have to defend ourselves ever again. Can you imagine handing a clown like Paul a rifle, & telling them to go defend the country in the jungle of New Guinea?

If they didn't wet themselves they would run a million miles, or both.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 11:32:04 AM
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Then for those people who are worried about the ease of obtaining lethal weapons, especially by criminals, the US and India (and others) are developing some far out stuff.

https://www.wired.com/2007/04/plasma_pulse_la/

Who knows what the amateur inventors are doing?
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 6:45:38 PM
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and for those that think that the Adler lever action shotgun is a horror weapon, check out the Pardus.
The Pardus has a box magazine, so spare magazines can be carried and changed in about 1 and a 1/2seconds whereas the Adler has a tube magazine and is slow to reload.
http://www.safarifirearms.com.au/pardus-lax12-lever-action-shotgun-1.html
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 7:43:45 PM
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Hassy, you must be some kind of Rip Van Winkle, we live in a different world today to the one when you charged up San Juan Hill with Teddy Roosevelt in 1898. You need to get out of the nineteenth century, and at least move into the twentieth. It would be too much to ask you to get into the twenty first century and skip a hundred years, Would it not!

Issy. that is just another one of the fights we are having with the gun happy brigade, the stopping of new and even more powerful devices. These new murderous weapons must be prevented from falling into the hands of crazed gunnies!

<<Is there any logical reason why 10 year olds shouldn't be taught firearms safety and allowed to shoot under supervision?>> Sounds a great idea Issy, just take a look at this case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGCKFzGAfQ0

Sorrrrrry my mistake Issy, the girl was only 9. should have waited another year until she was more mature. Don't you think?
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 19 October 2017 4:11:18 AM
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As usual, Paul, you try and cloud the issue.

"Jean Casarez on a nine-year-old girl who accidentally killed her gun instructor while shooting an Uzi sub-machine gun"

No one in Australia would be teaching anyone using an Uzi sub-machine gun as they are forbidden weapons. well, not to the army, some police and the criminals.

Whoops!! My mistake they are forbidden to criminals as well, but the gun laws don't seem to work on crims.

Learners on SSAA rifle ranges are taught using single shot rifles or repeaters that are single loaded and they are only loaded when facing safely down the range and the instruction is one on one, by qualified people.

So logical reason why 10 year olds should not be taught firearms safety?

Don't let the word 'logic' frighten you!!

While you are at grips with the concept of logic, do tell us all how the Greens are tackling the "..... These new murderous weapons must be prevented from falling into the hands of crazed gunnies! "

What's the procedure going to be, Paul, as there is no way to prohibit the purchase of the electrical components.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 19 October 2017 8:26:03 AM
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Proposed by whom Issy? The crazed gunnie brigade. And why 10, what is the significance of the age 10? Is it your favorite number or something, why not 9, or even 5. Why stop at guns, why not include grenades and rocket launchers as well, and don't forget the perfectly safe land mines, the evidence shows no one is killed in Australia by land mines. Can include Uzis, and all the other automatic guns as well, just like the way the gunnies talking heads are agitating for this ridiculous nonsense, they could agitate to include any weapon you like. After all, the real agenda of the gun lobby when it comes to gun control is, no gun control at all.

Gives us your reasons why it is a good idea. Don't ask me to make a case for why its not?
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 19 October 2017 9:08:02 AM
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Paul,

Obviously, you didn't look up 'logic' before you posted.

Teaching ten year olds gun safety is self-explanatory, safety.

What is your logical objection to teaching gun safety?

Do you want more young people who may find a gun to be hurt, thus helping your Green's agenda?
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 19 October 2017 9:55:05 AM
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Issy, it is only the thin edge of the wedge. Within the guise of so called "teaching gun safety" the crazed gunnies are looking to brainwash children into accepting guns, and their ownership, and use, as being a normal part of society. We are a wake up to your ploy.

NO TEACHING BABIES TO USE GUNS!
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 19 October 2017 10:58:37 AM
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Paul,

".... are looking to brainwash children into accepting guns, and their ownership, and use, as being a normal part of society"

and what are the Greens doing about violent video games in which guns, fully automatic ones at that, are such a vital part?
and the violent use of guns in films and TV as 'entertainment'?

Still, you've given no logical reason to stop teaching children gun safety.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 19 October 2017 11:11:54 AM
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I'm as concerned as the rest of you but shying away from guns is NOT the answer. I keep saying, guns are not the issue here. OK, let me be the devils advocate for a minute. Let's say we succeed in removing EVERY gun, the lot, sporting, farming, the lot. Think about it. I'm pissed off about something or someone, I can't get a gun, no wait, yes I can. I still have a choice. Just picking a couple out of the bag. One is a 'spear' gun, the other, (and this is a beauty) a 'nail' gun. Got you thinking now haven't I? Then we say the spear gun gets vilified so the law decides it too has to go. Which leaves us with the nail gun. Let me say it now, you will NEVER get nail guns outlawed. FYI nail guns have to go through the same licensing rigors as the real ones. They function exactly the same as a 'real' gun. They are more compact and mobile. I've said it before I am indifferent towards guns and yes I have had guns for over 50 years. They don't rule my life, hell I never give them a thought. So ease up on the guns, go hard on the criminals, because the guns aren't the problem, people are.
Posted by ALTRAV, Thursday, 19 October 2017 11:40:20 AM
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I believe I saw actual footage where this 10 yo girl killed her 'instructor' (instructor be damned!) with an Uzi smg.

Anyone who has a modicum of commonsense would never hand anybody a loaded smg, let alone a 10 yo child! As an aside the Uzi always 'climbs up and out' to the right on full R 'n R, unless you control the muzzle. Surely this deceased idiot of an 'instructor' would be aware of this? I feel so badly for this little kid who'll no doubt carry this fellow's death on her conscience, for the rest of her life. It could only happen in the United States.

I have a new suggestion that might just reduce further F/A's deaths - Ban 'ALL' Americans from purchasing, possessing and using any type of F/A's.
Posted by o sung wu, Thursday, 19 October 2017 11:45:41 AM
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You really are a tool Paul.

You always have to use something like "the crazed gunnies" because you can't make a real point using real language. Surely that should signal to even you that your arguments are ratbag religion, with no truth or fact.

I suppose I must be one of those "crazed gunnies" to your ratbaggery, but my guns are there for a reason, forced on me by people just like you. They hadn't been out of the safe in 5 years, since our last foal needed protection, until non "crazed gunnie" neighbours asked for help.

In this district we have had pet sheep & goats, along with chooks, ducks & even geese torn apart by marauding wild dog packs. There are quite a few in the 10,000 acre paddock across the river from us.

The ratbag greens bequeathed this death to these innocent animals by lobbying the local council until they got a bylaw passed requiring us to keep our dogs locked up at night. Fat lot of good they can do protecting our stock there.

As usual the ratbag greens have moved on, chasing some new bug that has got into their bonnet, & doing nothing to help with the unintended consequence they have left behind. That has fallen to us "crazed gunnies". It has cost me a few nights lost sleep, but we are eliminating the worst pack leaders.

I don't know why the greenie movement attracts only those too stupid to see the consequences of their fool actions & ideas, but every time you post you prove yet again this fact.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 19 October 2017 11:53:25 AM
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Hasbeen, on the money. These tree huggers must live isolated and removed from the 'real' world. I would like to see a ground swell movement round up all these blind, deaf and dumb, and I mean stupid, greens along with that mouth that only spews out sewage and collect them all by the neck string them up and allow all the people who have in some way suffered because of these nobodies and let them stone them till there are no more greens. A little harsh you say? Well talking hasn't worked, so how do we remove a problem this serious. The greens have cost us millions with their stupid naive childish policies. It is a nothing party backed by nothing people, with NO credible agenda or policies. ALL their stupid ideas are a massive failure and as big an impost on us and the budget.
Posted by ALTRAV, Thursday, 19 October 2017 12:11:34 PM
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@Paul1405, Thursday, 19 October 2017 10:58:37 AM,

Cough, gasp, too much smoke around here. Wait a minute, that grease paint looks familiar, the red nose too. It IS you Paul1405, isn't it? But hey, where is your regular mount? Y'know, the Rainbow one that Greens have been piggybacking and flogging to death for years? It was running out of puff, you say?

So, is that a horse in your pocket, or are you just pleased to be cosying up to Mr Soros' 'Open Society'(sic)? The billionaire currency dealer who nearly sent the Bank of England broke, shorting against the British Pound? -Which would have wiped out the savings nest eggs of thousands of ordinary people overnight. This one,

http://theduran.com/panama-papers-reveal-george-soros-offshore-business-investing-arms-manufacturing/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/8811574/George-Soros-loses-appeal-over-SocGen-insider-trading-conviction.html

What happens in the US is irrelevant to Australia. Australia already has its own firearms regulations. Australians resent foreign billionaires covertly interfering in domestic politics.

But why does the Soros empire want to create social discord and unrest in western democracies through sponsorship of leftist activism and why is its 'gun control' solely concerned with ordinary licensed people, not criminals? 'Gun control' is not about effective, robust regulation at all. Its stated SOLE aim is to completely disarm the civilian populations of the developed western nations, to confiscate and ban. Why? And why are Soros and his billionaire mates pushing 'open borders' in Europe and the mass migration that has caused so much social upheaval and crime?

Do the 'Watermelon' Greens faction really care, Paul1405? Or is getting their behinds on those seats in parliament and the golden handshakes, enough? The ends justify the means?
Posted by leoj, Thursday, 19 October 2017 12:24:51 PM
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Harking back to a post of Hasbeen's, imagine, if you will, a Green General Officer in some future war.

Order of the Day: No trees will be removed, cut down, blown up etc.,etc., to enable or improve lines of fire.
Branches will not be cut for camouflage purposes.

Signed.

I.M.Reseda-glas, Brigadier.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 19 October 2017 1:16:19 PM
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The Greens do have Senator Sarah 'Sea Patrol' 'Two Dads', who gets mixed up between a TV series and the ADF, among other misunderstandings,

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/sarah-hansonyoung-all-at-sea/news-story/95444b759ceb805875abc5033f3ef75d
Posted by leoj, Thursday, 19 October 2017 1:56:22 PM
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Looks like you fellas are fighting some sort of rear guard action trying to win the Boer War, surprise, surprise, those days are long gone. You fellas should wake up and get yourself into the twenty first century. There is no logical reason to be arming society for self defence, Dodge City is a thing of the past. In the fight against crime what will win out is a well trained, disciplined police force, not some citizens militia or vigilante squad. For national defence we need a well equipped professional army. There is no place for mum, dad and the kids running around with loaded gun, not for defence or any other reason.

I mention gunnies and look what fell out of the tree; ALTRAV <<I would like to see a ground swell movement round up all these blind, deaf and dumb, and I mean stupid, greens along with that mouth that only spews out sewage and collect them all by the neck string them up and allow all the people who have in some way suffered because of these nobodies and let them stone them till there are no more greens.>>

Seems I and others have something to fear from this person. vigilante mob, taking the law into their own hands, lynching. Can't read that comment any other way.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 19 October 2017 7:32:48 PM
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Paul,

I'm in the 21st C. so I wonder which century all the Greens and hangers-on were in when they wanted to ban the Adler leaver action shotgun, a prime example of 19th C technology.

When will Shoebridge et al launch the attack on the 21st C Pardus shotgun, or the currently available to make, electromagnetic fully automatic guns that any decent science student can make out of legally available bits. now there's 21st C stuff.

Check out the Pardus straight-pull shotgun, operates left or right handed and is really fast, comes with quick change box magazines or a tube.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 19 October 2017 8:33:47 PM
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At least Pauline 'Hanson' does not profess to be an intellectual. This other arrogant 'Hanson' is a nobody. She has no right, like the rest of the green garbage, to be in politics. The sooner the greens are squashed the better. I for one am sick of having to see these morons pushing a 'pipe dream' agenda. I expect real maturity in any parliament. Australia has no real maturity in our choice of ministers. So we end up with bad decisions. This is the standard practice we have experienced for decades. The govt boasts of us having 'world best practices'. Rubbish! We barely make 'just good enough'.
Posted by ALTRAV, Thursday, 19 October 2017 9:34:32 PM
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