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The Forum > General Discussion > NDIS why is it my problem, i have paid my insurance.

NDIS why is it my problem, i have paid my insurance.

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I got stiched up in my 20's whereby my insurance was put into whats known as a 'stepped policy' where the increases were small at first, but now all but unafordable, but I will not let it lapse. It costs me about $800 per month.

The point is the majority of us have choices, to spend our money on non essentials, or, be pro active and pay insurances.

The trouble is, we are now being asked to fund this NDIS simply because when the alternative is there.many choose lifestyle choices, often to the detriment of insurances, one of which is TPD or truma.

Now if one chooses to partake in health risking activities, like smoking, excessive drinking, even partaking in gay mens sex, they are all choices that require funding and if that means they cant aford these, as well as insurance, then that is by all means a 'personal choice' and it is simply unreasonable to expect Joe average, the tax payer, to fork out billions to fund them when they find themselves disabled. Especially when the majority have alternative, but choose to forego them for lifestyle reasons.

Now of cause there are exceptions and we do need to provide assistance to them, however, why not bring in a mandatory levy that everyone pays when they commence work, say $2 per week which goes towards insurance.

In any case we have to get the through process away from expecting the tax payer to be there in our times of need, when alternatives are available.

I pay about $10K per year for my own insurance, so why should i pay for others who choose not to.
Posted by rehctub, Saturday, 13 May 2017 9:58:19 AM
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No one needs to pay 10,000 for insurance. Medi bank private is 63$ / F/n and that covers the lot. There are more expensive medi bank, but that covers things that are not necessary, like a private room.
At 10,000 / Year that lifestyle is yours.
Posted by doog, Saturday, 13 May 2017 10:48:20 AM
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Oh deer Doog, i thought you might catch on, so i didnt go into too much detail. The 10K is for truma insurance or TPDI Total permernant disabillity insurance and its for half a million from memory.

Now if a 20yo took out such a policy, and was a non/light drinker and a non smoker, and led a healthy lifestyle, they would pay a fraction of this amount on what is known as a 'level premium', i was stiched.

Medicare does not fund your every day expenses, only your medical bills which is entirely different.

Most people can get insurance and the younger and healthier one is, the more affordable the premiums are, but they do come at a cost, and thats a cost many choose not to pay, and that in my opinion is thier problem, not mine.
Posted by rehctub, Saturday, 13 May 2017 3:12:19 PM
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Dear rehctub,

I will happily pay the amount that's required
towards NDIS - and I'm not rich and I also have insurance
(always have had). However I believe in a society where
we take care of our most vulnerable. Our governments
waste so much money on things that are not important. This
scheme to me at least is worthy of support. When we put
money ahead of people in our society, we all lose.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 13 May 2017 3:20:49 PM
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I, too, am happy for my tax dollars to go to something like the NDIS. I abhor a devil-take-the-hindmost approach. It’s selfish, evil, and only favoured by those who wouldn’t be affected by it.

I’ve always thought that a good system of morality should look like one that was devised by someone who didn’t know who they were going to come into the world as.

I think the same can be said for a society.

It’s worth noting, too, that when some of our tax dollars go to supporting the disadvantaged, we always benefit from it to some degree or another. I mean, your mansion won’t look as nice if it needs razor wire around the perimeter.
Posted by AJ Philips, Saturday, 13 May 2017 4:27:31 PM
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Dear AJ,

I learned recently that we shall
be spending approx. $100 million on an ANZAC Memorial
in France. I thought it was an exaggeration at first.
But it appears that the Monument is going ahead.
While I think we should honour the memories of all
those who died in the First World War. We should also
weigh up the costs involved especially in a place where
we already have monuments in place. Also our current
veterans are suffering from mental health issues that
need our support.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/ww1/anzac-centenary-the-costly-price-of-history-lessons-20151008-gk4yaz.html
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 13 May 2017 4:44:04 PM
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Rehctub,

It's your problem because the socialist government made it so. NCIS is one of the most scandalous misuses of public money in Australia's history.

NDIS is a blatant vote-buying exercise, again demonstrating Australian politician's obsession with minorities at the expense of the majority. It might get the votes of these minorities, but should lose votes from the majority. I predict that this government's miserable majority of one will see it being the last majority government in this country. Then, it will be much harder I for any government to rob us blind as both Labor and the Coalition have been doing for far too long.
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 13 May 2017 5:21:40 PM
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Nobody has mentioned, those who are born disabled,
And the constant care and medical AIDS they require.

Mothers struggling with autistic children need help,
There are Downs Syndrome children, Spina Bifida children.
I used to think it was a disgrace that the government spent billions on
Overseas aid, but couldn't put money into helping people
who needed more financial assistance right here in Australia.

Do those here, who oppose contributing to the disabled, also disapprove of
euthanasia. Thus condemning people to a life of caring for someone who may
be very severely brain damaged. I'm not saying there are not people who voluntarily
take on the care of a severely handicapped child, but the point is. Society gives them
no choice to humanely euthanise those who are never going to have much of a life. Society therefore has to help with a burden
they allow people no choice about.
Again I know there are beautiful disabled children who do ok with help.
But society can't insist a mother or father has to be burdened with a hard life of never ending care, round the clock,
and then walk away, shouldering none of the burden they impose on these people,
Posted by CHERFUL, Saturday, 13 May 2017 6:46:47 PM
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Dear CHERFUL,

I've known two families that had children who needed
round the clock care that you describe. Their biggest
fear was who would take care of their children should
their children survive them. Luckily in both cases their
children did not outlive the parents. I'm not sure if
euthanasia of the child would have been an option that
they would have considered. Both children were very, very,
loved.

Not an easy decision, that's for sure.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 13 May 2017 7:20:21 PM
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As for one's own insurance, the best option is to self-insure or to save for a rainy day and keep the funds for contingencies like disability within one's extended family. This is much cheaper than paying excessive premiums to greedy large companies.

Regarding those families who cannot afford to insure themselves, WHAT HAPPENED TO CHARITY?

By government taking our money without asking for our permission, they deny us the ability to use this same money to expand our heart through charity. Yes, there are a few with a heart of stone that would not help others voluntarily - so what? they are a minority and if not for government-interference, most of us could have benefited from charity - the givers more than the receivers!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Saturday, 13 May 2017 10:33:28 PM
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Yuyutsu,

“WHAT HAPPENED TO CHARITY?”

Are you suggesting a return to the days when governments kept their noses out of things and the parish, or volunteers, took care of he needy? It was done much better and at a much lower cost then.
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 13 May 2017 11:20:48 PM
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I have a good friend who cried in front of me when his autistic son was assessed as eligible for NDIS funding. His wife is a full time carer and time as a couple had been very limited. The scheme has given this pair not only specialist help for their son who now has some hope of someday living independently if progress can be maintained but also respite care. The constrained future they had been trying to come to terms with is now more hopeful and the change in their demeanor has been significant. I think the NDIS is worth every penny and it is a sign of a mature and caring country.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Saturday, 13 May 2017 11:52:25 PM
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Certainly so, Ttbn.

---

Dear SteeleRedux,

This is all very well and I am glad for this couple and their son, but there was neither need nor justification for compulsion - the good of one person should not be achieved through harming another.

The NDIS levy ought to have been made optional, so that every decent and self-respecting tax-payer would happily and proudly tick (or not untick) that box where they choose to help their fellows in distress.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 14 May 2017 12:04:41 AM
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cheerful and others, if you read my initial ost i clearly said 'there are exceptions.

Of cause someone who is born disabled should be supported. On the other end of the scale is this young shark victim. I know he has not yet been supported, but should he?
Posted by rehctub, Sunday, 14 May 2017 5:45:15 AM
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There goes TTBN going on as if disability was a lifestyle choice. Who can predict a disability happening. Being a community problem it sounds only fair to have a community funded scheme. Those that want disability persons left to fend for themselves is political as much as it is personal opinion.
Posted by doog, Sunday, 14 May 2017 8:10:44 AM
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ttbn and Yuyutsu,

Charity could not and never did provide adequate services.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/03/the-conservative-myth-of-a-social-safety-net-built-on-charity/284552/

You two are making that up.

<<... the good of one person should not be achieved through harming another.>>

And what about the harm that we can know would come to scores more (not just those who need the services) for the sake of saving a few dollars in tax, Yuyutsu? Like I said earlier, your mansion won't look as good if it needs razor wire around the perimetre.

The establishing of useful services like the NDIS are not just vote-buying measures or quaint, experimental ideas that some idealist dreamt up one day. They are established, in part, because they benefit everyone to some degree or another. You could argue that people should be given the freedom to make the mistake of not contributing to vital services, but that would never happen under your libertarian model because it relies on having a very educated public, and that could never happen if education, too, relied on charity.

And besides, I think most of us would like to reap the benefits within or lifetimes.
Posted by AJ Philips, Sunday, 14 May 2017 8:35:07 AM
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So Steely, how much is it costing the taxpayer for full time care for one autistic child? It would have to be upwards from half a million a year for carers alone without the hundreds of bureaucrats sitting in offices in yet another high rise buildings full of bludgers. Help is one thing, the taxpayer taking over the entire load is just not affordable.

Just how many autistic can we afford before the whole GDP is consumed. Now there is money in it, just watch the numbers explode.

I am horrified by the number of mobility scooters cruising around my town & our supermarkets, since this rip off started. Usually driven by fat smelly people of one ethnic group renowned for latching on to any rip off of the public purse.

Helping the needy is one thing, sending everyone else & the country broke is not a way to help anyone long term.
Posted by Hasbeen, Sunday, 14 May 2017 10:03:27 AM
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doog,

Some disabilities in children ARE predictable when the lifestyle choices of some mothers are taken into account – abuse of substances like alcohol; putting off child-bearing while the self-indulgent female 'fulfills' herself right up to the dangerous years for conceiving a child; the modern inablility of young woment to cook simple, nutritious meals for themselves and their in vitro children, prefering junk food and highly chemicalised processed foods.

There is no 'community problem'. Some people have have bad luck; others have bad management skills. It's the way of life. The community should not have to pay for every damn thing that goes wrong in the lives of some individuals.

And, instead of ranting on about what I say about any subject, how about supporting your assertions on 'far right' politicians in the Coalition. You really cannot expect other people to discuss anything if you are merely antagonistic. There are two people no OLO whose posts I refused to read or respond to. I can add you to the list if you would rather put down than discuss. You don't have to agree with me, but when people stop talking things start breaking down.

I watched a video recently where it was said that free speech is not a right: it is the ONLY mechanism by which people with different views can talk without strangling each other.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 14 May 2017 10:39:35 AM
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Hasbeen,

“I am horrified by the number of mobility scooters cruising around my town & our supermarkets, since this rip off started. Usually driven by fat smelly people of one ethnic group renowned for latching on to any rip off of the public purse.”

Love it! I know that you would hate the thought, but I wish you were a South Australian.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 14 May 2017 10:43:21 AM
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Of course, that should have been:

“You could argue that people should be given the freedom to make the mistake of not contributing to vital services AND LEARN FROM IT, but that would never happen under your libertarian model because it relies on having a very educated public, which could also never happen if education, too, relied on charity.”

Libertarianism is a flawed, utopian political worldview that would fail the standard I mentioned in my first post, unless one stupidly denied determinism as ever being a factor in anything.
Posted by AJ Philips, Sunday, 14 May 2017 1:28:25 PM
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Foxy
Thank you for your compassionate understanding of those who give there all
In caring for a disabled child, whom they love. Often to the extent of having no life or
respite from the full time care. This is where we as a society need to lend a helping hand especially in funding respite services.

Rechub
I agree that the shark attack fellow will be able to manage desk work quite well
with one leg but he needs financial support, maybe for a year until he recovers
physically and mentally, and adapts to managing life with one leg.

A severe physical event, takes time to recover from. Often their is depression and post traumatic syndrome.
When you lose a limb, you go through all the roller coaster moods
of grief. He may well be incapable of focusing on a job until he deals with the emotions.

If he's sitting staring into space or crying at his desk, he is not going to be much good to
someone who gives him a job. Centrelink needs to allow for the mental stress and trauma that follows these events.
Eventually the mind and emotions heal, but it takes a period of grace from Centrelink before they start hounding him.
maybe 6months, for the loss of a leg or arm. Eventually he will probably be very keen
to be given a job to prove he can still do things despite having only one leg.
Posted by CHERFUL, Sunday, 14 May 2017 6:56:20 PM
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Doog, just like any accident, nobody can really predict something and that is why we have insurance available. Now if ones lifestyle choices make insurance unafordable, then thats not societies problem, its their problem.

Now if a person is/was a cronic smoker, or is an excessive eater and obese, then I see no reason why I should be paying for their disabillity when I had no influence on their lifestyle. I already pay their medical bills, against my will.

If we are to have any chance of delivering a decent lifestyle to future generations, people MUST LEARN to stand on their own two feet and not have this entitlement mentality that had festered in this country over the past decade or more.
Posted by rehctub, Monday, 15 May 2017 7:01:29 AM
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Dear CHERFUL,

Thank You for your kind heart.

I always enjoy reading your posts.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 15 May 2017 2:07:49 PM
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All we need is another 2,000 public servants to vet these people as to their needs.
You can stop paying your insurance and join everybody else.
Posted by doog, Monday, 15 May 2017 3:05:51 PM
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Dear Foxy,

It's great to feel so nice and warm, full of compassion...

But does anyone have any compassion for those who work hard to take care of themselves? for those who save for a rainy day - for themselves, for their families and for their community?

By compelling people to part with their hard-earned money, the victims are not only denied the ability to care for themselves and their families, but also the ability to open up their hearts and exercise their generosity-muscle, which like any other muscle, atrophies when out of use.

When all physical needs are taken care of automatically by a well-oiled mechanism, there is no longer a need for generosity or compassion. Once you develop a society without generosity, without a heart, without compassion, people turn to grow up as monsters and the results, well you see it today in the cruelty of those who destroy other people's files in order to extort them.

This approach for solving a material problem is short-sighted. All it really takes to fix, is a tick-box in our tax-returns where we can state whether or not we wish to contribute towards helping disabled people.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 15 May 2017 3:47:18 PM
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Dear Yuyutsu,

I firmly believe
in helping those that are the most vulnerable in our
society and giving them a hand-up. And I am quite happy
to pay extra in my taxes in order to do this.

You are free to disagree
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 15 May 2017 4:33:55 PM
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Dear Foxy,

«You are free to disagree»

But I do agree!

Like yourself, I also firmly believe in helping those that are the most vulnerable in our society and giving them a hand-up - and I also am quite happy to pay extra in my taxes in order to do this.

Indeed, I am quite happy to pay extra in MY taxes in order to do this - what I am unhappy about and find immoral, is to forcibly tax YOU and/or OTHERS who are not similarly happy to pay their share. I am even happy for MY share of the load to increase as a result, just so nobody else's money is taken away by force by those who claim to "represent" me and rob that money on my behalf.

If you or I permitted that to happen on our behalf - what would it make of us? how are people who take other people's money by force called? ROBBERS!
Well, I don't want to fall into that category, and if you give it some thought, I am convinced that you wouldn't want to be in that category either.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 15 May 2017 5:18:35 PM
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Dear Yuyutsu,

It seems that I misunderstood you.

My apologies.

And Thank You for setting me straight.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 15 May 2017 5:38:18 PM
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This was the answer given to a question by a Congressman who had asked, “Why should a 62-year-old man have to pay for maternity care?”

Quote;

I ask why should I have to pay for a bridge I don't cross, a sidewalk I don't walk on, a library book I don't read?

Why should I pay for a flower I won't smell, a park I don't visit, or art I can't appreciate? Why should I pay the salaries of politicians I didn't vote for, a tax cut that doesn't affect me, a loophole I can't take advantage of?

It's called democracy, a civil society, the greater good. That's what we pay for.

End quote

http://i.imgur.com/6mgWoSH.jpg

I think there are far more people like Barbra than people like butch and Hasbeen.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Monday, 15 May 2017 8:12:00 PM
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Dear SteeleRedux,

«It's called democracy, a civil society, the greater good. That's what we pay for.»

Forcing others to participate in a society they never wanted to be part of, can never be good, for anyone.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 15 May 2017 11:12:11 PM
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Dear Yuyutsu,

You wrote;

“Forcing others to participate in a society they never wanted to be part of, can never be good, for anyone.”

Really?

This could well be the cry some of the top 5% in our country. Those who spend inordinate amounts of money trying not to pay their tax obligations. They want different rules to apply to them and would happily make off with the fruits of labour of others if given half a chance.

The fact that we, as much as we can, demand they are held accountable to the rest of society might not be as good for them but it certainly is a good for the rest of us.

For you to claim otherwise is an exercise in sophistry. Perhaps trying a different tack might be useful.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Monday, 15 May 2017 11:30:26 PM
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I'll tell you Paul, why I am no longer interested in helping your so called vulnerable, that I call bludgers.

My son blew up a knee in an accident in the navy. It was badly repaired by a lousy navy surgeon. He has had trouble with it ever since. He came out of the navy & was doing some heavy engineering work.

He slipped off his ute at hone, & the lousy surgery gave away. The navy don't want to know. The public hospital told him to go home & take some panadol. Our doctor sent him to get scans & x-rays. These he then presented to the public hospital. They & the Gold Coast had no one who could even read them. It took 2 weeks for them to evaluate them, admit he needed urgent surgery, & tell him he could expect to wait at least 3 months. His knee was so bad he could not even drive.

He then paid to have the surgery done at the Mater. He was not allowed to go back to work for 4 months. He applied for sickness benefit or unemployment benefits. He was told that as he had cash in the bank he was not entitled to any benefit. He could have spent his money on grog, drugs, a car, boat or a house, & the social security would have been all over him, but nothing until you’re flat broke. Pity he wasn’t one of your vulnerable.

Continued
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 16 May 2017 12:15:46 AM
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Continued.
The Navy have been chasing him to go & put in some reserve time. They are desperate for people with his qualifications & skills. Come & serve your country they say. Which one he asks the one who won’t give me the time of day, because I haven’t pissed my money up against a wall.

It has cost him $50.000 to fix the lousy navy surgery, & you want us to pay for your drop kick vulnerable.

I know the story. I was a navy fighter pilot. When I suffered a back injury & couldn’t fly, I was told I would be better off resigning. The navy already had too many general service officers. Serve my country. Which one, I don’t have one any more, it’s been given away by people like you, to whatever bludger wanted a bit of it.
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 16 May 2017 12:17:39 AM
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Dear SteeleRedux,

"Obligations" are a feature of society which only apply to its members. Your choice of words - "demand they are held accountable to the rest of society" implicitly indicates that you consider the "they" in question to be part of your society whether they like it or not.

However, pointing your finger at another does not make them a part of your society. If you make demands of others, including the demand that they become part of your society against their will and be subjected to its "obligations", that only makes you a brute, then all you have in your defence is your brawn and your guns. You might be physically able to bend others over, but then forget about calling yourself "good" - that places you on the side of evil amongst other infamous tyrants like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Kim Jong Un.

You further use the phrase "in our country" as if you legitimately own this land: the fact that you happen to have more powerful guns which allow you to subdue the other inhabitants of this continent does not make anything "your country", it only makes you a thief and a rapist and there is nothing good about it!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 16 May 2017 2:35:32 AM
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foxy, nobody is or should deny you of your right to help others who you feel are in need. The problem comes when you expect everyone else to feel the same way and do likewise, against their will.

As Y says, just like when you book a flight, you have the option to donate a few dollars to carbon reduction. Your choice.

I already pay $10K a year to insure myself against a disabillity. Do you now expect me to pay another $4K or so, so others who opt not to pay thier insurance should be covered?

If so, how is this fair?

As I said from the start, people have to get away from this mentaility that others will suport them.
Posted by rehctub, Tuesday, 16 May 2017 6:23:38 AM
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Sorry Foxy, a 'typo', should have been $400 extra.
Posted by rehctub, Tuesday, 16 May 2017 7:05:31 AM
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Dear Rehctub,

I feel so sorry for people like Hassie's son, and others who
don't receive the help they need when they need it. We need to
fix the system that this does not continue to happen to
people in genuine need.

Our family has always had private medical insurance. We've
always believed in it and made sure that we were covered.
We also pay for ambulance subscription.

My father taught me at a very early age
to take care of myself and my
family. That was the way I was brought up. However, I simply
could not walk away from someone needing help. And if I can
I will do what I can to help. And if my paying extra tax
will help another family, then I am happy to do it.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 16 May 2017 10:33:36 AM
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Foxy, youre missing the point. Private health insurance has nothing to do with it, the insurance i have, and all should have, is TPD, which covers you should you become disabled and unable to work.

I have private health insurance as well, for what it's worth, but the NDIS has nothing to do with that, it's there to provide welfare assistance for the disabled.

Now what I want to know is why should i insure myself, then assist others who choose to spend their insurance money on more pleasurable things, and let's face it, who wouldn't!

Society has to get away from the thinking that the tax payer will foot the bill, bec ause like it or not, the days of the free ride are gone.

By all means spend your money where you choose, but don't try to spend mine as well.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 7:13:46 AM
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Dear rehctub,

Not everybody can afford the insurance you're mentioning.
And what a fair democratic society does is look after its most
vulnerable people. That's the way it's supposed to work.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 10:58:53 AM
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With all due respect foxy, thats not how its suposed to work. People are suposed to do as much as possible for themselves, then we pick up the slack.

If people chose to buy grog cigs or gamble prior to payimg insurance to securing their future, then that is thier choice, but they should not be able to then come to us and call for help.

I choose to pay $10K per year in insuring myself in case of a debilitaing misfortune, where that could be a great anual holiday instead.and while i think a national mandetory insurance scheme is a great idea, self insured people should be exempt. Thats all im trying to say. Of cause if you have insurance and you choose to contribute to such a scheme as well, then thats your choice but dont force others to.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 2:31:30 PM
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Dear rehctub,

Most people are doing and copping as best as they can.
However, when life throws you a curb ball, some people
do need help and that is what we do in a civilised
society. We help those who are not able to help
themselves.

I can't understand the thinking of some people that the
poor or disabled are in poverty because they are idle
and prefer to live on "handouts". This view is fervently held,
even by people who do not know any poor people, have never
tried to raise a family on welfare payments, and have not
the vaguest idea what poverty is really like. People who
have no idea how difficult it is taking care of a disabled
person or what it means to be disabled.

I guess its the old belief that everyone has the same
chance to get ahead. If those who get ahead can claim credit
for their success, then those who fall behind must, logically be
blamed for their failures.

Therefore anyone needing help are supposed to manage on their
own, rather than help at the expense of the taxpayer.

There are few complaints however, about how our government
pays out far more in "handouts" to the non poor than the poor
in forms of all sorts of hidden subsidies or tax deductions.
But I guess this fact generally escapes attention
because these benefits are not direct forms of cash payments.

In any case, I'm done arguing with you.

See you on another discussion.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 6:20:41 PM
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Foxy, i axcept your wanting to end this discussion, however you summed it up perfectly when you said....

"Most people are doing and copping as best as they can.
However, when life throws you a curb ball, some people
do need help and that is what we do in a civilised
society. We help those who are not able to help
themselves."

exactly, not able to help themselves is a far cry from not willing to.

I pay thousands into medicare each year and claim a couple of hundred back. So i'm doing my part.
Posted by rehctub, Thursday, 18 May 2017 6:17:08 AM
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