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The Forum > General Discussion > No to abortion in NSW

No to abortion in NSW

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david f,
You demonstrate your inability to perceive others reality, only your own. The facts presented indicate a shift in the thinking of Abraham, that was his reality.

The universe though diverse and complex operates as a unity, even what appears to be chaos operates within the perimeters of a unit. There is only one intelligence, and the human mind can understand that intelligence as it reflects that ultimate intelligence. So what the human intelligence uncovers as fact is his reality.

That we start sacrificing children to the god of fertility, is a pagan belief. Just because someone falls pregnant is no reason to sacrifice the child.

Persons should prepare and prepare before casual sexual indulgence. To have a baby to save a failing marriage is not a responsible move if later the child is to be aborted as the sacrifice.
Posted by Josephus, Friday, 19 May 2017 11:53:34 AM
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runner,

I think you might need to elaborate on this.

<<[Yuyutsu’s fable] actually reminds me of the [putrid] doctrine of secularist[s] who insist [it’s] a [woman’s] right to have [their] babies murdered.>>

After all, in Yuyutsu’s terrible tale, the woman was clearly severely mentally ill. When a woman has an abortion, she is exercising her right to bodily autonomy and her rights must necessarily override those of the unborn human child, so sweet and innocent.

How the two are analogous remains questionable.

<<This is far more common than another one of AJ's fantasies made up by distorting the biblical account of Abraham/Isaac.>>

http://i.imgur.com/cMpdzeK.png

--

Josephus,

My representation of the binding of Isaac was simply a more educated one.

<<A dishonest representation of the events of Abraham's conversion.>>

If Abraham had lived now, he’d be committed and we’d all write him off as mentally ill. The story’s background, that you have so kindly provided us with, is irrelevant to that.

As for the story itself, it is yet another example of Biblical immorality. The only response that an omnibenevolent god could accept as a satisfactory response to such a test would be, “No, you cannot be the god I worship. The god I worship would not ask me to do such a thing.”

Your god’s test of obedience fails a test of morality.

That aside, a god would have known the extent of Abraham’s fear and devotion and wouldn’t have needed to test him in the first place. So none of it makes sense anyway.
Posted by AJ Philips, Friday, 19 May 2017 11:57:43 AM
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AJ Philips,
God was not testing Abraham as some imagine. This was the conflict Abraham was having. Should I follow what I have been taught to sacrifice my only child to become more fertile, or do I follow my conviction and sacrifice for my sin [pay a price for my sin]. The price for sin was to sacrifice a ram. That is the basis of Orthodox Judaism. Christianity does not except either as we believe Christ put an end to sacrifice. Christianity believes in genuine repentance for sin.
Posted by Josephus, Friday, 19 May 2017 1:08:00 PM
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Josephus,

I’ve heard quite a bit of apologia attempting to justify why such a hideous test were necessary, but never any which denied that it were a test at all, until now.

I think Genesis 22 is pretty clear about what was happening:

2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”



9 When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the Lord called out to him from heaven, “Abraham! Abraham!” “Here I am,” he replied. 12 “Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+22 (Titled: Abraham Tested)

That looks like a test to me.
Posted by AJ Philips, Friday, 19 May 2017 1:42:41 PM
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Dear Josephus,

There is no such thing as my reality and other's reality. There is only one reality. Just because you think something is true doesn't make it true. The fact you believe in certain improvable propositions does not make those propositions real or true. My reality is your reality and everybody else's reality.

There are many intelligences. In the brain of every entity that can think is an intelligence. To have the idea that there is another intelligence outside of the intelligence in every thinking being's brain is superstition. It is an idea created by superstitious humans which has no foundation.

Apparently it is easier for humans to believe in polytheism than monotheism. In the midst of polytheistic believers some humans created the idea that there is only one god. However, many humans rejected monotheism. Poor lonely god needs a sidekick. Normally a god would need a goddess, but the monotheistic male god doesn't have the instincts of a normal male. So humans created a male sidekick named Jesus. There you have a pattern for same sex, incestuous marriage. Incestuous because Jesus is supposedly son of god. Apparently two gods were not enough so Christians invented a trinity. Hooboy! Back to polytheism with male gods. Troilism!
Posted by david f, Friday, 19 May 2017 2:43:00 PM
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Dear David,

Are you aware that Judaism never denied the existence of other gods?

We all know that Judaism (and its offshoots, Christianity and Islam) is adamant that one should not worship those other gods, but while religion is occupied with what ought to be done and what ought to be avoided, it has no interest in questions of existence. Such questions are relatively new and only arise in the minds of modern men. As far as I am concerned, questions of existence are just time-wasters.

Regarding reality, there is indeed only one reality (i.e. God), but our perception of it is indirect because it arrives via our limited senses and our limited minds, thus is badly distorted. The delusion of an "objective" reality of which we can know and understand quite a bit, only arises from the fact that human senses and minds (in other words, brains) are quite similar to each other, thus make similar errors.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 19 May 2017 4:30:18 PM
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