Bazz, I think you are attributing someone else's comment to me, or are you?

I live in a Muslim country, and have done for a number of years, I have many Muslim friends here, some drink alcohol, some eat bacon, most of them play with my dogs, so I don't think I need a lesson in what is or is not moderate.

People need to make a distinction between Islam and Muslims. All religions preach crap, starting with this god nonsense, and they all claim they are the only true path. Religions don't bring people together, they strive to keep them apart, the sooner the world is rid of religion the better.

Just as Christians don't share the guilt of two thousand years of Christian atrocities, culminating in the disgusting paedophilia of Christian priests, vicars, nuns and bishops, so Muslims aren't responsible for the atrocities carried out in the name of Islam.

BTW, you made a comment earlier that Copts built the pyramids. You are aware, I take it, that Copt means Egyptian? The use of the word Copt today usually refers to Coptic Christians or the Copt language. So whilst you are right, there is no connection between Coptic Christians and the pyramids.

Hi Billyd,

You make some interesting points:

* that there is Islam, and there are Muslims, just as there is Christianity and there are Christians. Most believers would give lip-service to their religion, believing so casually and unthinkingly that they don't need a book. Both the Bible and the Koran promise eternal hell for non-believers, but as far as I know, there are no Christian zealots these days who would put those strictures into practice, unless highly provoked.

* yes, all religions are ultimately rubbish, but most provide a moral foundation of sorts for believers, something us atheists have to consciously build for ourselves, or not. Like identity itself, a common moral principle of believers is to be inclusive, recognising the strengths and weaknesses in all humans, and as sort of all brothers and sisters under the skin. But like many senses of identity, some are exclusive, exclusionist, with adherents defining themselves and their beliefs in terms of what they are NOT, i.e. not those other bastards 'out there', with their assumed vile customs, whose non-belief or non-identity is a mark of their irredeemable evil.

* some believers in this negative alternative see themselves as always under threat from those bastards, who historically have done the most dreadful things imaginable (and easily imagined without any evidence), and therefore can never be trusted. In fact, for some believers, one must get in first and carry out the most heinous crimes against those bastards in the name of their religion - their god would approve it - or 'discover' new crimes, new oppressions, in order to justify building further walls, rather than bridges, as people of a positive and inclusive disposition might.

Ttbn, yourself and I probably don't disagree as much as we sound :)

Cheers,

Joe

Poor Silly Billy,

Live in a Muslim country do you? In Bali? Sorry, Billy, but 90% of Balinese are Hindus. Care to bullcrap your way out of that one?

Joe,

There's only a ciggy paper between us. I would say that I'm ruder than you are.

ttbn, you ignorant little fool, Bali is a province of Indonesia.

Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world by population.

I live in Indonesia, the country, on an island called Bali.

You really aren't the person to argue with me over geography.

The figures you quote don't take into consideration the itinerant population who come to Bali to work, mostly Muslims from Java.

Jembrana, the part of Bali nearest to Java, has an estimated Muslim population nearing 40%, and greater Denpasar, including the main tourist areas, has an estimated Muslim population exceeding 25%, and growing.

Maybe if you got out more, became more worldly, you wouldn't be such a nasty bore.

Hi Joe. I wouldn't disagree with anything you said there, but still feel strongly that the world would be a better, more inclusive place without religion.

Also, there are fundamental Christians working in Israel stirring the poo in the belief that Armageddon is about to break out there, I don't pretend to know what damage, if any, they cause, but their intent is wholly violent and exclusive.

...........

Looks like I can't post again in this thread for about 16 hours, a funny rule.

Rave on, Billy. I know that Indonesia is a Muslim country. I know that Bali is part of Indonesia. The fact remains, you do not live among Muslims. Bali is majority Hindu, and you cannot change that. Why do you live there, loser? It's no place for a civilised person. One big holiday for you is it? Plenty of cheap drugs. Cheap women. Cheap boys? Can't make it among your own kind.? Who knows? Who cares?

Oh dear tt-bs, have I driven you over the edge?

"Billy. I know that Indonesia is a Muslim country. I know that Bali is part of Indonesia." ... Yes, you do now, because I told you.

Have you ever lived in Bali? Of course not, I doubt you have ever been here or anywhere else, and yet you're an expert.

I've already told you the area I live in has a Muslim population of 25%, and growing. I also explained to you how Bali has a huge Muslim 'black' population of unregistered workers. Every resident of Bali must have ID papers and be registered, or they aren't counted on the census, so aren't part of the official 18% identifying as Muslim. What I didn't mention was the Muslim tourists, who far outnumber every other tourist group. So at times up to a third of the people here are Muslim.

If you ever earn enough money to visit here, (I doubt you will ever afford to live here), ask the waitress in your restaurant what religion she is, ask the man mowing the lawn in your cheap backpackers, the women in the kitchen, the cleaners, the handyman, the cashier, the taxi driver, the shop assistant, and most of the people you come into contact with, I guarantee the majority of them will be Muslim.

As for me, I am surrounded by them, good friends, acquaintances, workers. My gardener is Muslim, my pembantu is Muslim, my mechanic is Muslim, the pool man is Muslim, the woman who cooks my breakfast every day is Muslim, and my business partner is Muslim. And, as I said before, I have a very good friend and her boyfriend staying with me from Banyuwangi, and looking after my house, both are Muslim.

Why do I live here? Because I have a better life than you, and I am surrounded by better people than you. Cheap? Well it would be if I were staying in the dumps you can only afford, but I have no need to.