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The Forum > General Discussion > Fake News and the threat of censorship.

Fake News and the threat of censorship.

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Dear Shadow Minister,

At last an excellent well reasoned post.
Congratulations and a Happy New Year to you and yours!
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 1 January 2017 11:48:11 AM
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Happy new year to you too foxy and Paul.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Sunday, 1 January 2017 1:08:47 PM
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And a Happy New Year to you Shadow.

I can not argue with what you have said, a piece of paper is not in itself going to solve a multitude of problems, no fair minded person would think otherwise. I have spoken to many Maori people about the Treaty of Waitangi, and have visited the treaty grounds several times. most agree the treaty was not a great document in the first place, and was essentially abandoned by the Pakeha from around 1860 onward.
For a treaty of any kind to be successful, it has to be both binding on all parties, and it has to impose reasonable conditions for all involved.
The Treaty of Versailles, is seen as the classic bad treaty, with extremely harsh conditions imposed on one side, and all the benefits being for the other side. Given those conditions imposed it's no wonder it did not work.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 1 January 2017 9:42:07 PM
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Hi Paiul,

As you would know better than me, the Treaty of Waitangi came near the end of thirty-odd years of the 'Musket Wars' between Maori groups, with the Ngapuhi in the north, and Te Rauparaha (Ngati Awa?) in the south wreaking havoc on many other groups, hence the entreaty (no pun intended) by Maori chiefs to the British to provide some form of protection. 'Governance' by an administration separate from that of New South Wales was the intended outcome, so, as I understand it, the Protectorate of New Zealand was separated from the colony of New South Wales.

But I'm not sure if 'governance' can be effective without entailing 'sovereignty': how does one govern without have the authority of some form or sovereignty recognised by the population ? Perhaps there is a sort of hierarchy of 'sovereignty': from the British Crown, down to the Governor of NSW and Lt-Governor Hobson before the Treaty, then more direct authority from the Crown to the Governor of (parts of) New Zealand (and his Council?), then the Maori Chiefs who had signed the Treaty ? Did those Maori chiefs cede 'sovereignty' when they ceded 'governance' powers to the new Governor ?

Either way, I don't see any Australian government ever ceding anything which challenges its sovereignty: certainly, it can delegate powers - but can instantly withdraw that delegation at any time: such ceded 'sovereignty' would be therefore entirely contingent on the wishes of the central government, and therefore could never be 'sovereignty' at all, no more than any local government has 'sovereignty' merely because it takes on responsibilities from federal and stage governments that are more effectively handled at local level. Delegated responsibilities are one thing, sovereignty is an entirely different matter.

So what would be the point of an agreement, contract or arrangement - even if it were called a treaty ?

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Monday, 2 January 2017 8:42:33 AM
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