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The Forum > General Discussion > The Passing Of Fidel Castro

The Passing Of Fidel Castro

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Dear Paul1405,

When Castro came to power the firing squads started to operate. They slaughtered those who had worked for Batista. Even if they hadn't done anything wrong they were executed. Che Guevara who is idolised by many presided over some of these firing squads. One out of every six Cubans fled the island. Those who were openly opposed to the new government wound up in prison. There was no freedom of the press or expression. Homosexuals were imprisoned for the mere fact of being homosexual. The concentration camps were horrible. Of course TIME made Hitler the man of the year. Dictators get admired and loved by the masses and by the media. I pointed that out. That makes them neither good nor right. Ask those who fled Germany or Cuba whether they thought Hitler or Castro were good guys?

Gandhi and Kissinger were not dictators so I don't know how they are relevant to this discussion. A dictator may be democratically elected as Hitler was. A dictator is one who has power with no checks on him. Castro, Lenin, Hitler, Mao, Mussolini, Franco, Kim il Sung and Stalin are examples of dictators. They are characterised by centrality of power, torture, imprisonment and execution of disfavoured groups or opponents, an all-encompassing ideology or religion, restriction of freedom of expression, press and freedom of association and movement, concentration camps, hatred of democracy and propaganda. Popes used to have such powers. When they had such powers they acted like any other dictators.

In my opinion all absolute monarchs are bad. No human can have such power and remain a decent person.
Posted by david f, Monday, 28 November 2016 10:37:22 PM
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Paul,

I well remember a talk given by a Cuban doctor in Sydney back in the early 1980s.
I forget the venue, but I do remember that it was there that I first met Pat O'Shane, who was also a speaker.
She spoke rather feelingly of her experiences in Cuba, particularly how accepted she felt.

One of the interesting points that the doctor raised was how, since Castro, there had been a dramatic drop in the number of drug brands on the market, there were still the same drugs available but the American companies that sold the same product under different brand names and different prices had departed.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 1 December 2016 1:01:24 PM
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I've spent time in Cuba, and the people are not as concerned about the leadership of the country as those outside would have you believe, as the outpouring of grief at his passing testifies to. They are basically a happy, welcoming people, adept at adjusting their lives to what life has to offer.

David, absolute monarchs were not always bad, comparing the world then and now tends to distort your views. The conditions for ordinary people were mostly dire, but would have been a lot worse had anarchy ruled. True, there is no place for absolute monarchy now, times have changed.
Posted by Billyd, Sunday, 4 December 2016 8:00:56 PM
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Dear Billyd,

Anarchy may be good or bad. "Homage to Catalonia" by George Orwell describes an anarchic society in Spain that was destroyed by the communists. That society sounded pretty good.

Of course many people in Cuba were quite happy under Castro. Many other Cubans fled Castro after experiencing him. Among those were ex-supporters of Castro. In evaluating Cuba one has to factor in those who fled, those who stayed and those who were tortured, imprisoned and executed. Of course it is my feeling toward absolutism that is speaking. Many are quite happy under dictators as long as they do not suffer. Many Germans were quite happy under Hitler. Hitler had excellent social services for those he considered human. I am not a homosexual, but I object to their persecution. They are persecuted in Cuba. One can measure the value of a society by the way it treats those at the bottom. Few societies pass that test. Cuba didn't. With its concentration camps on Nauru and Manus Australia doesn't either. The Scandinavian countries and the Netherlands do.
Posted by david f, Sunday, 4 December 2016 8:54:44 PM
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Hi david f,

Wealth creates the luxury of democracy, not the other way around. That is why I laugh every time I hear an American President pontificating on how America is going to install freedom and democracy, "Western style" to some strife torn, poverty stricken, third world country. From Vietnam to Afghanistan they have not done it yet. Not that they seriously believe they can, or even want to. I am sure Cuba has as many dissidents as any other disaffected country of similar economic standing. It is not by accident that extreme dictators like Castro, Hussein, Marcos, or countless others come to power. They are the products of a perverse economic and social environment, and in an extreme society, extremism becomes the norm.

I spend a bit of time in Fiji, poor but lovely people. Since independence from the British in 1970, the Fijians have struggled with democracy, but far worse than that, they have struggled economically. Although natinalisic as any, the ordinary people have never given democracy the priority that we in Australia do. Fijians are more concerned with the mundane matters of, education, health, housing, food, transport, employment, things we take for granted. They may not know it, but the people who will install true democracy in Fiji are not the politicians, but the teachers, doctors, employers etc who through their efforts will improve the economic lot of the people. Then Fijians will be able to afford the luxury of who is running the government in Suva, more or less. I am not so obtuse or patronising to think Fijians would be better off modeling themselves on Australia, or any other society, no matter how democratic we are.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 5 December 2016 5:24:11 AM
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Dear Paul1405,

In nothing I have said have I criticised Cuba for not being a democracy. Democracy is only one kind of government and not necessarily the best for all people under all circumstances. I nave criticised Castro for being a tyrant, for having concentration camps, murdering those who served the previous government, setting up a state which a large part of the population fled and restricting freedom oppression. He set up a totalitarian state. That is tyranny.

Tyranny is only one kind of non-democratic rule, All countries that are not democracies are not tyrannies or dictatorships. All states that are not democracies are not totalitarian. Unfortunately since 1917 many countries have been under one sort of dictatorship or another. Dictators stink, but all countries that were not democracies were not dictatorships.
Posted by david f, Monday, 5 December 2016 11:13:56 AM
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