The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > General Discussion > ANZAC Day - 2015, A century on. What does it mean for you ?

ANZAC Day - 2015, A century on. What does it mean for you ?

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 13
  7. 14
  8. 15
  9. All
In a few short weeks, it will be another ANZAC Day, only this time we'll be recognising precisely one hundred years since the allies ill-fated attempt at a successful landing on the Gallipoli peninsula, in Turkey, on 25th April 1915. I guess there are not too many Australian families who don't have at least one relative who's not seen active service during a period of war ?

It's for this reason, that I ask you all, what does this particular ANZAC day mean or symbolize for you personally, and your family ? Is it a time for celebration or commemoration ? Or a time for observance allowing for a period of quiet personal reflection ?

Or just another welcome day-off that will invariably pass all too quickly, without all that predictable 'brouhaha' generally associated with these kinds of occasions ?

Please...I'd very much like to hear all your opinions and your views, on this momentous period in our history.
Posted by o sung wu, Monday, 6 April 2015 3:35:58 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Britain attacked Turkey for no other reason than to weaken resistance, so they could attack the 'Middle East' to get control of the oil. Lawrence was sent in to promise the original Arab and Palestinian owners that their lands would be returned to them in return for their assistance. But after the war, the British with their usual treachery, sliced the place up and shared the spoils with France. Lawrence suicided from shame.
That's what the sacrifice of all those poor deluded soldiers means to me. No war has ever been fought for reasons other than making the rich richer. Australians do not have a Defence Force, we have an Attack Force, to go out and support the U.S.A and previously the British, in expanding the economic interests of their wealthy defacto rulers. A decent country would wait until their country is attacked before defending. Racing all over the planet, attacking people who don't do as the USA wants, is vile, and the soldiers, as Churchill infamously once said, are disposable pawns.
Posted by ybgirp, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 10:22:17 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
ybgirp, Lawrence did not suicide from shame, or for any other reason. He campaigned for Britain to honour its promises, then after Iraq and Jordan were given independence, he changed his name, enlisted in the air force, and died in a motorcycle accident.
Posted by Aidan, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 12:42:50 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The day Australia was born as a nation was December 3 1854. See http://www.visitvictoria.com/Regions/Goldfields/Things-to-do/History-and-heritage/Gold-rush-history/Eureka-Stockade

On April 25 1915 Australians were losing their lives to serve the geopolitical ambitions of a foreign country.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 2:19:51 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi there Folks...

It would appear thus far, this particular ANZAC day means very little to some people. Quarrelling over why the British and her allies attacked Turkey ? Actually I was seeking responses more along the lines of the significance of this centenarian ANZAC Day, rather then deliberating as to why the British or her enemies, adopted such and such a strategy during the prosecution of their various campaigns ?

Is ANZAC Day, the 'assigned' founding day, of this great country, as many important people would have us believe ? The day we ultimately matured ? Or is it just a point in time where Australia's fledging military began to get it's backside assiduously slapped from beneath them ? Personally I don't know ?

What I do know, every single political leader we've had since the end of WW l, has placed the 25th of April high on their personal agenda, almost a preoccupation with observing it's singular importance ? I do wonder though, given our population has now become more 'multi-cultural' as it were, whether we all place the same importance and significance on the day, as we did in times past ? What do you all think ?
Posted by o sung wu, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 4:44:15 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It is an interesting question, o sung wu, and one that, as you are already finding, gets very little considered response. It has become a habit on this forum to use any and every topic to air personal prejudices, rather than engage with the question at hand.

My own view is that there is very little "spirit" of any worthwhile kind in the continuing celebration of the Gallipoli experience; it is now just a habit.

I am certain that it once meant something very real.

My own parents were WWII survivors, mother in the WAAF, father at sea in frigates. My grandfather was in the Ypres trenches in 1917, during a period when the BEF lost 310,000 men in the three months between the last day of July and the beginning of November. That's over three thousand young men being killed, every day.

Their generations knew first hand the sheer courage involved in real people fighting each other, when they had to put their own bodies on the line for a cause which they believed to be to protect their families' future. Forget "king and country"; think "wife and kiddies".

In the last seventy years, our lucky generations have not had this experience to such a confronting degree. The numbers that have been actually involved in combat are relatively small, consequently the number of people who share their awareness is also diminishing. Nor are we likely to experience it again - any future war will be remote and surgical, rather than hand-to-hand and messy.

But people like symbols, and the military failure of Gallipoli has now been hijacked as a symbol of a whole load of stuff that has no bearing on the sacrifices made there, by real people, in real danger, with real courage.

It is just another excuse for political grandstanding and mindless jingoism.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 6:25:56 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
o sung wu,

ANZAC Day to me is a time to remember those who served their country and in many cases gave their lives in that cause.
I remember my own mates, particularly those that didn't make it home alive.
It's the one day of the year when I forget the possible finangling of politicians and others; their actions are of no account on ANZAC Day.

On a lighter note it's the one day of the year when I get to travel free on public transport and also the one day when the local RSL puts on a free feed and drinks, unfortunately my capacity for Guinness has lessened over the years and I have to be satisfied with a pint.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 6:43:50 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
ANZAC Day for me will forever be associated with Australian history, as on my first ANZAC Day (only a few days after getting off the plane) my family visited the Constitutional Museum (alas no longer there).

But the Gallipoli thing has no significance for me. I learned about it at school, of course, but I don't know anyone who fought there, none of my ancestors fought there, and nor were they in the Australian Army. They did fight elsewhere, but there's Remembrance Day for that.
Posted by Aidan, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 7:57:29 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I've never "celebrated" ANZAC day but always acknowledged it.

To me it's always been a sad day that marks the lives needlessly sacrificed on the altar of political and financial interest and should be a day of national rage in the forlorn hope it never happens again.

It's become a recruiting tool to make sure that there is a never-ending supply of future starry-eyed victims seduced by jingoism and tales of glory and honour.

Those soldiers weren't fighting for Australia - they were fighting for their lives and the only good that came of it was the end of a society that had been ruled by congential idiots as part of the British class system - sending boys "over the top" for no good reason.

After that war, officers were promoted on merit - not by accident of birth.

If you take the time to study the real history of that battle, including the number of suicides in the trenches and other horrors, the "glory" fades into the background and the truth becomes clearer.
Posted by wobbles, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 7:57:59 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
ybgirp,

Galipolli was Churchill's idea. He also attacked Iraqis with tear gas AFTER the war to stop an uprising and gave the OK to use mustard gas but it wasn't used by his troops.

But then again he also wanted to shell striking Irishmen from the sea and firebombed German civilians in WW2 so that shouldn't be a surprise.

The origins of a lot of today's Middle East problems can be traced back to those days - 100 years of violence and betrayal.
Posted by rache, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 8:20:55 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yes, Rache, he was a truly vile man. To finally learn the truth about both world wars, thanks to the internet, is sickening...the lies, the treachery, the cruelty of the allies should shame us all. But we believed the propaganda, just as most Australians think our soldiers are protecting us at the moment by killing, maiming, and destroying men women and children thousands of miles away who have never harmed us, and never would have.
Posted by ybgirp, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 8:45:59 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
o sung wu they are wearing me down mate. I no longer care much.

I am just old enough to know what happened in WW11, & to have a pretty fair idea of what it was like in WW1. I grew up in an age where the population actually knew what they owed our service men, & knew how much those men & women had sacrificed to give us the lives we could lead so happily.

I was incredibly proud as a cadet under officer to command the honour guard at the ANZAC dawn service in Young my last year at school. I was proud to be a pretty expendable navy fighter pilot, prepared to defend my country. Having toured much of the Pacific battle ground, I was glad to have a son in the navy, & hoped our men could prevent Oz ever becoming a battleground.

Now, after a few years seeing the attitude of so many on here, I am so glad he has resigned. It would not be worth lifting a single finger, or endangering even a fingernail to defend about half of this lot. Our society is now rotten to the core. Just a slight push & the lot will collapse like a white anted gum tree, the guts ripped out of it.

We could no more produce a militia as the one that stopped the Japs at Kokoda, than fly to the noon in a tiger moth. The country who produced those men, like the one that produced the ANZACS no longer exists. We have added to our own few useless, a flood of worthless, gutless, garbage over the last 50 years, & I don't believe we will ever recover.

What we must learn now, is which way is Mecca. We'll have to know which way to point while on our knees, because that is where we are bound.
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 9:12:21 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
As a pacifists I deplore all war, as a senseless waste of human life. There is no glory to be had, nothing to celebrate.
The participants are most often duped, willingly or unwillingly, to believe what they are doing is just and noble, lead by liars that say they are making an unselfish sacrifice for the good of their fellow man, their family, their community, their nation, even for freedom and democracy itself. The coldness of the reality is different, with nothing to be had other than death and destruction, and in many cases the loss of dignity and a continuing torment for those that survive.
ANZAC Day itself is based on a lie, that somehow young Australian boys were off in a far away land to fight the good fight to protect the ideals of empire and nation, the truth was somewhat different.
There is no purpose served by condemning the naive participants in war, the common soldier is as much a victim of war as anyone.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 5:59:22 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
So, Paul, all war is senseless, have a look at the terrible hardships that the people of South Korea have to endure because of US/UN intervention.
Where is the prosperity and human progress in that country?
Just go to Google Night View and see the lights of South Korea and compare it to the darkness over the North.
The only places with less electricity are the North and South Polar regions and the Sahara Desert.

I imagine that Europe is a better place because Hitler was stopped and the sacrifices by Australia towards the defeat of Japan does mean that we are able to type on normal keyboards.

See:http://www.lexilogos.com/keyboard/hiragana.htm
and that is a simplified version of the typewriter keyboard.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 9:15:52 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Is Mise,

There is a hole in that bucket.

General Comment
The stark reality is that following WW1 and WW2 the family farms of my forebears were run almost entirely by women. Our families did not even get the men back crippled. It is easy to understand why all of children myself included, did men's work and were so strongly encouraged towards independence.

Their valour, comradeship and sacrifice, and the long years of loss and suffering of their wives, children and families, demand recognition from the nation that sent them.

It is insulting where flakey, political lightweights such as the NSW 'Watermelon' Greens cynically hitch a ride on ANZAC Day to score some limelight for themselves, headline-hunting as per usual. That is low.

Then along comes self-avowed NSW 'Watermelon' Greens himself, Paul1405, to cock his leg as the lunar Greens Trotskyists do, on the men, women and families whose sacrifices are being commemorated. Yet his mate, Greens Shoebridge, wants a paid Monday off! Hypocritical Greens.

Doubtless in his own defence storytelling Paul1405 will now find a forgotten relative who was in the army somewhere. However Paul1405's patronising insult of the 'naive' volunteers was meant and still stands.
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 2:52:36 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
HASBEEN.......? Hell mate, yours is one of the saddest contributions I've ever read since I've subscribed to this Forum ! And just a few short weeks to the Centenary of ANZAC DAY too ! You, a former Navy Pilot, publically admitting your total dismay and despondency, for the country you proudly served ? What a total disgrace ! We all should hang our collective heads in shame ! HASBEEN, I'm so very sorry, I really am.

You're a proud ex Navy man HASBEEN, don't let the bastards get either you or your admirable son down ! None of these foreign interlopers or politically (anti-military) pariahs could hold a candle to either of you, for the service you've both willingly bestowed upon this (once) great country of ours ! I'll admit, this bewildering even enigmatic era we're now all living in, tends to disillusion me as well ? And I'll readily admit being totally confounded by the pace of 'change' that I cannot help but witness daily, change that doesn't always augur well for most of us ?

Still for us, our family and our friend's sake, we must soldier on. You're not the only ex-serviceman who's heartily sick of the lack of direction this country is experiencing ? Many of us see what needs to be done, yet for some inexplicable reason our political leaders are either blind or uninterested in doing what's the right thing ?

Still, there's not a lot you and I can do as individuals, other than not to weaken, and in so doing allow other, far less savoury people to take the initiative, and usurp all the good things this country is renowned for. Take care HASBEEN !
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 4:15:54 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi there PERICLES...

Your thread was particularly relevant considering the importance of this ANZAC centenary. Ypres, was of significant resonance for me as well, my maternal Grandfather was at Ypres, with the 30thBn AIF and he was fortunate enough to make it back to Oz, after having been gassed, bombed and buried in mud. Consequently he spent 10 or 11 months in Hospital in England, before being repatriated back to Oz in 1918. Regrettably he died relatively young. My Dad's father, was in the Anglo-Boer War 1899-1901, in South Africa. He died in the early 1950's and I never got to hear of his active service, unfortunately ?

Interestingly that 'both' of your parents served during the war ? I would imagine many of their principles, standards and belief systems would've been their own personal testimony, created and forged as a result of their individual service ? As a consequence, passed on to you and your siblings ? Much of what they taught you, would've came from the school of 'hard knocks' ? Communal living, sharing, group participation, would been inculcated well and truly into your upbringing, and what valuable lessons they would've been too, I believe ?

I heard on radio today, a veteran was lamenting the fact, those ANZAC Days long past, when all the city pubs were overflowing with well dressed men, adorned with their gongs, laughing and smiling as they noisily conveyed their war service days all those years ago ? Today, the same pubs still do the same roaring trade, only it's young men without a gong amongst them, using the occasion as an excuse to be rowdy, misbehave and generally engage in anti-social behaviour !

Seemingly the special significance of this very distinctive Day, as you quite rightly opine, no longer prevails and many people just use the occasion as a justification to celebrate, to party and generally have a jolly rousing time. The solemnity of the Dawn Service - well far too early for most people, anyway some are just returning home by then anyway ?
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 5:59:21 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
G'day there IS MISE...

Correct ! Armies march on their stomachs, I'm reliable informed ? A free feed, a 'gunfire' breakfast, and a few well rationed barbecue's needed to be politely attended during the course of the day ?

Funnily, as each year passes you see the blokes you served with, all those years ago. With each successive year, friends appear to have aged, some put on weight, some lose their hair, while others just look older ? I wonder what they must think, when they gaze upon my 'haggard' increasingly ugly countenance ? You're right IS MISE, meeting up with the blokes, that's the magic for me at least.

Hi there ONTHEBEACH...

Reading your opinion of the 'Greens', I heard on the radio today, both the 'Greens' and the Unions want the Monday after ANZAC Day, declared as a public holiday ? Believe it or not, when asked why, they said the extra day was to help them to better remember all Australia's war dead, and the supreme sacrifices they had made. In a much more solemn and dignified manner by having the extra time to much better reflect and remember them all ? What a novel idea eh ?

Aren't the Green Party, and most Unions, inexorably against anything to do with the Military ? Certainly they're totally against any military action, our government might wish to undertake, whatever their reasoning may be ? Maybe there might be a significent shift in their basic political ideology perhaps, one can only wait and see I suspect ?
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 6:42:01 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
o sung wu,

David Shoebridge and the Greens are in tight with the CFMEU, which explains a whole range of their policies.

It is a cynical last ditch effort to grab $$ in the form of:

1) free publiciity for Shoebridge and the NSW 'Watermelon' Greens; and

2) extra pay in the form of penalty rates with an additional and unnecessary public holiday.

It has nothing to do with commemoration.

Shoebridge, the Greens and the CFMEU are shameless, cynical hypocrites.

BTT,

You are asked what ANZAC means for me. Dawn Service and return to the university regiment for a gunfire breakfast and refreshments. We will then all go our separate ways wondering where the years have gone, but thankful we get to live them and in a free country (so far).
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 7:34:15 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Beach "the family farms of my forebears were run almost entirely by women. Our families did not even get the men back crippled. It is easy to understand why all of children myself included, did men's work and were so strongly encouraged towards independence."

Oh, you poor little blighter, doing all that men's work, did you have to trudge through the snow? Dis you have a faithful companion named Lassie. What a stoic tale you tell. Is that how it was in Nazi Germany.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 9:19:48 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
What's that I hear, Paul?

It's that famous old march "Opportunism Now" and there's the band,
'The Greens and Union Misfits' blowing for all they're worth and riding, appropriately, on the Bandwagon, as usual.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 10:01:22 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
H (again) ONTHEBEACH...

Your last paragraph is pretty typical of what most people who've been aligned to the military in one way or other, may do and 'feel' ? The age old question...where have all the years gone ?

Your remarks concerning the Greens, and the Unions. I have very little respect for most Trade Unions, for a number of reasons ? I've been told that some Unions failed to assist those who were engaging the enemy, by either going on strike, or failing to load vital stores and other munitions destined to go to the front to help stop the advance of the enemy.

Certainly in the Vietnam War days, Unions wouldn't load one particular ship, the (HMAS 'Jeparit') with mail and other vital supplies, destined for those Aussie troops, serving in Vietnam ? So as you can imagine, Trade Unions are not very popular with many Veterans.

Personally, that type of conduct is something I just can't understand ? If your country is at war, the last thing you'd want to do, is 'punish or deny' those who are doing it hard at the front ? Whether your politics is left or right, it's of little significance, it doesn't really matter. The safety and welfare of your troops, is always of paramount importance. Above and beyond anything else.
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 10:15:39 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
o sung wu,

Unions - get a hold of Perth lawyer Hal Colebatch's book, Australia’s Secret War, that details the sorry behaviour by unions during WW2. The city council libraries should have copies. The book was selected by a panel and jointly won the Prime Minister's Literary Prize for history.

Facts that need to be known - not according to the leftists though. Although they cannot deny the documented facts that strikes etc did happen.

ANZAC commemoration is an occasion where people with strong civic spirit congregate. It is good to catch up too.
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 9 April 2015 7:11:35 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
G'day there ONTHEBEACH...

I wonder if it's not a too greater stretch of our imagination to infer those particular Unionist guilty of 'aiding the enemy' ? I would imagine the government of the day would've explored all avenues available to it, in order to mount a successful prosecution ?

Still during wartime, the last thing any government would wish for, would be a series of industrial disputation particularly when manpower was short, and all wartime necessities even shorter ? Even if a successful plaint worked, it could backfire down the track, making things even worse on our Docks, than existed previously ?

From a moral point of view, even if I didn't agree with the war or anything to do with the war, I don't think I could ever do, or omit to do, something that may place my country in even greater peril. Still that's me, and I guess we all think and morally assess things quite differently ?

Even during the Vietnam War, when the Unions refused to load the HMAS Jeparit, I don't think even PM Harold HOLT (a PM who was always prepared to 'take on' the Labour left) considered launching or attempted to launch a prosecution of the Wharfies even then, possibly for fear of escalating the dispute ? I guess we'll never know eh ?

Still, I do have grave fears for our Nation, if we're ever again involved in a conflict of similar dimensions of the two World Wars ? I don't believe we'll ever be able to raise the requisite strength necessary, from the available pool of (patriotic) young people, similar to those they had available for; WW l, WW ll, Korea and South Vietnam ?

Certainly conscription played a significant part, in augmenting numbers, and these conscripts proved magnificent soldiers, without a doubt ! But in future, I just can't see, that we could raise a sizable Army now, when one examines the pool available of acceptable young men and women, when we consider the burgeoning drug scene within our community ?
Posted by o sung wu, Thursday, 9 April 2015 4:55:17 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
o sung wu,

This is one of the gurus of the leftist 'Progressives' and forever on the ABC's payroll (ie swinging from the taxpayer's teat), so draw your own conclusions,

http://tinyurl.com/lsohu8m

That fellow seems to be doing very well for himself as a gentleman farmer,

http://www.patricenewell.com.au/elmswood-farm.html

The self-loathing leftists are easily led and have compartmentalised minds, not realising how ridiculous their international socialism and 'One World Order' are. Do they ever look quizzically at guru Adams, or at similiarly 'Progressive' Julia Gillard and her $2million 'bungalow'(tres trendy, very hip) and her lifelong golden handshake courtesy of the taxpayer? Reality check!

A Labor Speaker of the federal parliament once said, "In a one horse race you can always bet on self interest". That would apply to the Greens and the CFMEU wanting an extra holiday for ANZAC Day and wharfies strikes affecting loading of Australian Army supply ships.

We live in a very likely flash point of the world. Recent reluctance by Labor governments (Rudd and Gillard+Greens) to protect and defend Australia's borders, and present weakness (as Asian neighbours would see it) over Bali convicts convicted of trafficking hard drugs, have convinced neighbours and bigger powers that Australia is soft and has agricultural land and minerals for the taking if an excuse presents.

We would be well advised to encourage the civilian military style rifle competitions and clubs for women and men.
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 9 April 2015 5:58:18 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Beach, given your political beliefs, and half a chance, all that democratic, feel good patriotic fervor stuff of yours would soon go out the door. Only to be replaced by an oppressive jack boot regime, a totalitarian police state no less. Something, some believe our forebears fought to oppose.

<<We (who are we?) would be well advised to encourage the civilian military style rifle competitions and clubs for women and men.>>

Will they have uniforms like the Brownshirts? Always trying to win over the moderate conservatives. With comments like that you are so transparent.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 10 April 2015 6:35:37 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I can just imagine the place if the Greens ever attained power.

The Greenshirts would be on the prowl for any deviation from the Green Holy Writ, hamburgers would be a thing of the past and the Lentil Fart would pervade the CBD and be particularly noticeable around Centrelink offices.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 10 April 2015 9:13:56 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi there IS MISE...

Your last 'hypothesis' was particularly worthy I believe, though I don't expect either the Greens or Centrelink might necessarily agree ? Interestingly the Greens seem to be increasing their Vote, as evidenced by their polling in the recent State Election ? If this trend were to continue, I'd be quite concerned I tell you.

We all have our political propensities, but to witness a Party so stridently to the far left as they are, is a truly daunting prospect ? Moreover, from what I've heard a few of them say (as policy) on matters of Immigration and Defence, is amazing ? Well I just don't understand their attraction to any free thinking individual, with even a scintilla of ratiocination and common sense ? Particularly, a substantial number of our younger, better educated people who have a far greater appreciation of how our Nation is governed and the problems it now faces ?

Still, the same could be said of me, a much older more out of touch individual, than many of the smarter people, who now (seemingly) swell the ranks of enthusiastic Green adherents. Perhaps they (the Greens) have some indistinct attraction or some other meritorious strategy, that I can't yet see or even identify ? For this reason, perhaps it's a matter of 'catch up' for some slower, more obtuse person such as myself ?
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 10 April 2015 5:08:42 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Paul1405,

These are the Australians you and your Trotskyist Greens malign,

http://www.nswra.org.au/

There are thousands of good respectable citizens with exemplary civic spirit and pride that you and the Greens slur.

Many have war service and whole lifetimes blemish free of any crime however minor and are highly regarded by their communities.

Posters here and the public have the good commonsense to wonder if you yourself and those NSW 'Watermelon' Greens you associate with could ever pass the police and character tests as those highly respectable citizens have done to get and hold their licences.

The Greens are a protest party, nothing more. They are slack.
Posted by onthebeach, Friday, 10 April 2015 5:59:00 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Beach, still trying to justify your extremest views by associating them with the general public. There is no place in Australia for your para-military style citizens militia. What is the criminal record of your leader in NSW Jim Saleam? Woeful I would say. Could you please explain how your so called civilian military organisation would be used to deal with those 'Watermelon' Greens you so detest? I can just imagine, I should add to that list progressives, socialists, trade unionists, Muslims, Fabians etc etc.a long list of undesirables.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/mystery-over-australia-firsts-manifesto-man-20120905-25evg.html
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 10 April 2015 7:29:24 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Paul1405,

No-one is talking about 'para-military', 'Saleam' or any of that other stuff you go on about except you. It is your Strawman to distract.

Posters here and the public have the good commonsense to wonder if you yourself and those NSW 'Watermelon' Greens you associate with could ever pass the police and character tests as those highly respectable citizens have done to get and hold their licences.

The Greens are a protest party, nothing more.
Posted by onthebeach, Friday, 10 April 2015 9:05:14 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Beach it might be the case of a few, could count them on one hand, very few extreme right wing posters on this particular forum but show me where the following applies;

<<the public have the good commonsense to wonder if you yourself and those NSW 'Watermelon' Greens you associate with could ever pass the police and character tests>>

As I put it to you recently, on another challenge, put up or shut up, on that occasion, you chose to shut up, will you do it again? Remember its where the public have this good commonsense you have to show, so lets see your evidence to back up what you posted.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 10 April 2015 10:17:30 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Paul1405,

You dodge and duck and pose your Strawman questions whenever you are on the defensive, which is very often.

Once again, who apart from you is talking about 'para-military', 'Saleam' and that other wild stuff you go on about? It is just you and it is your Strawman to distract.

Here again, these are the Australians you and your Trotskyist Greens malign,

http://www.nswra.org.au/

There are thousands of good respectable citizens with exemplary civic spirit and pride that you and the Greens slur.

Many have war service and whole lifetimes blemish free of any crime however minor and are highly regarded by their communities.

You and the Greens have a lot of gall criticising such good, honest, law-abiding Australian citizens and conflating them with criminals who flout laws.

Posters here and the public have the good commonsense to wonder if you yourself and those NSW 'Watermelon' Greens you associate with could ever pass the police and character tests as those highly respectable citizens have done to get and hold their licences.
Posted by onthebeach, Friday, 10 April 2015 11:29:33 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Beach, as I suspected. instead of putting up (providing evidence) of what you claim you choose to shut up. You like to refer to Greens as Trotskyists, which is a brand of communists, when in fact the Greens are no such thing. Is that an example of your 'strawman' you like to refer to?

Your posts very much mirror the rantings of the likes of Jim Saleam, Australia First Party, Pauline Hanson, One Nation, and others of the extreme right.

I question what would motivate an extremists from the right in wanting to "We would be well advised to encourage the civilian military style rifle competitions and clubs for women and men."

Prior to that you posted "We live in a very likely flash point of the world. Recent reluctance by Labor governments (Rudd and Gillard+Greens) to protect and defend Australia's borders, and present weakness (as Asian neighbours would see it) over Bali convicts convicted of trafficking hard drugs, have convinced neighbours and bigger powers that Australia is soft and has agricultural land and minerals for the taking if an excuse presents."

You obviously see the Australian government as weak, and desire a private military style organisation to defend Australia's borders from bigger, more powerful Asian neighbors. You would disguise this private para-military set up as a military style rifle club. Given you extreme right stance how would that organisation differ from Hitlers 'Brownshirts'.

Again, when you say "the public have the good commonsense to wonder if you yourself (Paul1405, gee the public are wondering about little old me, i wounder how many are wondering) and those NSW 'Watermelon' Greens you associate with could ever pass the police and character tests"

Please provide the evidence of the public wondering about the Greens (and me) not passing these police and character tests? Otherwise I say you are simply making up this untrue accusation! Put up or shut up.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 11 April 2015 7:20:53 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Paul1405, <Again, when you say "the public have the good commonsense to wonder if you yourself (Paul1405, gee the public are wondering about little old me, i wounder how many are wondering) and those NSW 'Watermelon' Greens you associate with could ever pass the police and character tests">

Not something you are answering though.

The NSW 'Watermelon' Greens are an absolute disgrace, completely gutless and lying hounds inferring as they do that the many thousands of honest, law-abiding, respectable, civic-conscious citizens who have met all of the requirements for a firearms licence are 'red necks', likely criminals and so on. I will not add the disgraceful epithets the Greens have employed. Wrong. Disgusting!

You have even sneered at and defame school cadets. For what possible reason would you want to do that?

We know that the good citizens with firearms licences have passed all police and character tests. However the public has no such assurance where the Greens are concerned. That applies to signed-up Greens, Greens Party functionaries, the Factions who determine pre-selections and policy (such as it is) and the candidates put up for election.

Yet you and the Greens have the temerity to bad-mouth and slur the thousands of good, responsible citizens who have passed all police scrutiny with flying colours, and many of whom are pillars of society and may represent Australia overseas.

These are the people the Greens sledge, but why?
http://www.shootingaustralia.org/index.php
Posted by onthebeach, Saturday, 11 April 2015 3:39:02 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
As I said Beach, put up or shut up. You have chosen to shut up. Other than going off on some tangential diatribe, referring to your last post, which offers nothing in the way of evidence about that "wondering public" you so liked to refer too, and I did call you on that. I'll put it down as nothing more than a figment of your vivid imagination. What I do prescribe for you old chap is a stiff brandy and a good lie down, you are becoming rather unhinged over this whole Green thing. Taken to even greater ravings than usual, it is pathetic, but the brandy should help.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 11 April 2015 4:12:26 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi there PAUL1405...

I find at times you're a very enigmatic individual, who has this (extraordinary) singular capacity to lay a false trail and lead some unsuspecting poor sap down it, and when you're good and ready 'snap' ? And in so doing, I've been caught, hoodwinked and thoroughly demoralised in my initial argument with you ?

I recognise you're both a declared, pacifist and a supporter of the Greens. As was I, though much earlier on with their highly principled policies of preserving our endangered, very precious flora and fauna. Then for some inexplicable reason they (the Greens) seemed to depart from their core values and principles, and wade out into more unchartered territory of some of the more universal policies that governments need to address from time to time. Matters of Defence, Immigration, Firearms etc. and other areas that have no real substance, nor an interest for them, or have any impact upon their original, core values ?

You 'appear' to be a strenuous advocate for the Greens ? Yet I have this sense that a lot of what they say is not part of your belief system ? Notwithstanding you're from the Left Paul, I don't believe you're as far Left that you'd have us all believe ? Furthermore, I've heard you say some things in the past, that are more practical, even contradictory to much of what a normal socialist might opine ? It's for this reason I describe you as being quite enigmatic, a puzzling individual ?

Where do you (actually) stand PAUL1405, I know you're smart, and a University graduate, but you're not a 'dyed in the wool Socialist', not even within a whisker of being one ? Somehow, I have this sense you and I, and many others on the Forum, have much more in common, than some might believe ? Though, the events of 1964 - 1972, might still be 'a bit of a deal breaker' as far as I'm concerned at least, in the long run ? I dunno ?
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 11 April 2015 5:18:43 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi o sung wu,

Like there are small 'L' Liberals, I would describe myself as a small 'E' environmentalists. I agree with many aspects of socialism, but I also temper that with the recognition of the success of the mixed socialists/capitalists society we live in. I am not a "revolutionary" in the sense I want to change the bases of the social political structure we have, but I do want to improve our society. I recognise the need for social justice, giving a voice to those who have no voice, and much of that is at the core of The Greens. Believe it or not, I know most of the Greens in the NSW parliament, and in no way are they communists, in fact they are closer to Tony Abbott than Karl Marx. The Greens are made up of a very diverse cross section of the community. Nation wide there are about 30,000 party members.

cont.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 11 April 2015 7:37:30 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
cont

I hear what you say, and it is a common theme from many, why don't The Greens stick to their core issue of the environment and leave the rest to the big boys. Something I don't agree with, The Greens are as much a diverse and serious political party as is The Labor or Liberal Parties. One issue parties come and go, and never grow beyond the one or two percent level of support, no matter how important that single issue might be, it will never be the be all, or end all of politics. I was once a member of The Labor Party, a party I believe has lost most of its core principles and is not that dissimilar to the Liberal Party, both have shifted to the right of the political spectrum over time, leaving a center left vacuum that needs to be filled, hopefully The Greens is the party to fill that void, but it takes time, a long time, and The Greens may fail to achieve that goal, and some other political force may rise and fill the gap,I don't know. My politics has not shifted that much from my informative years, although I am no where as radical as I was as a youth. LOL

Cheers.

http://greens.org.au/
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 11 April 2015 7:38:29 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
G'day there PAUL1405...

Thank you for your honesty ! Thank you also for the official Site of the Greens too. You're pretty much as I thought. I also appreciate your desire to give a voice to those who haven't got one, or who're unable to give voice to their own set of unique problems. Actually most of the regular contributors to this Forum, would be of a similar mind, as I'm sure you'd already recognise ? Aussies are a pretty 'giving' lot really, as you're aware Paul.

Years ago we'd have to drive slowly through Belmore Park (adjacent to Central Railway), we'd see dozens of these poor buggers trying to sleep on bench's (if they were fortunate enough to get a bench!) or on lawns. Occasionally you'd find one, who'd succumbed to the cold or whatever, and died during the night ?

Periodically we'd have to arrest one or two of 'em, either for fighting or drunken behaviour, a myriad of minor street offences. Often we were doing them a favour. they'd get a week or two off the streets, out at Long Bay, with a bed and three square meals daily !

I realise Paul, this might seem harsh to you, the law treating these blokes and 'ladies' in such a manner, but it's not really, as the street can prove quite dangerous to many, having their meagre pension stolen, almost as soon as they get it ?

The reason I'm telling you this, most of the Aussie adult population would view sympathetically or commiseratively, those of us who simply can't fit into our society. Whether we're Labour, Liberal, Greens, or whatever Party, we'd all like to believe we have a better social conscience then most other Nations ?

The same goes for protecting our heritage, our natural environment, defending our Country, pretty well all the most important issues we confront daily ? It's the 'micro-management' of many of these beliefs where we tend to differ I think, otherwise we're not all that disengaged from each other, basically we're all on the same page, is my thinking ?
Posted by o sung wu, Sunday, 12 April 2015 5:39:50 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi o sung wu,

You pick a good example of one who needs a helping hand, and I don't see what you did as harsh at all, in fact just the opposite. Seeing a "beggar" in the street one has a couple of options, turn a blind eye and say "you deserve your station in life, you brought that upon yourself" and to some extent that may be true Or you could say, "regardless of the cause of your situation you need help and I will do what I can." I know this all sounds 'Good Samaritan' type of stuff and I don't want you to think I'm putting myself or The Greens for that matter up as some kind of saints, we are not. The beggar is the extreme case, easy to spot, but in some respects we are very much all some kind of "beggar" the old person on a pension, the kid in school, the woman in hospital, the bloke who cant find a job, the returned soldier, the drug addicted etc etc. Its only the lucky few who are not deserving of, or in need of, some form of help in society. With all that comes some need for balance and priorities etc, that is where the politics comes in, who needs what, and who is the more deserving. Nothing is perfect in this world so we are going to argue for some time to come.
This might sound silly, when I catch a public bus, pay my $2.50 ticket, sit down, ride, get off, I'm in a way like "the beggar" I needed help. I needed and received help from society to take that journey, society made my life that little bit better/easier. through a helping hand, a subsidised bus trip, that case is not so easy to spot, but it happens a million times a day in so many different ways.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 12 April 2015 10:32:12 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Indeed we all need help of one sort or other throughout our lives PAUL1405. Picking up those old 'chats' to use a denigrating form of the vernacular, was of great benefit to them. Their singular form of treasure was having sufficient 'weed' (Tobacco- usually 'Drum' or 'White Ox')to last them until next Pension Day ? Everything else could wait, in their minds ? By going to gaol for a week or two meant clothes, 3 x square meals a day, and best of all, a small supply of weed ! I've actually witnessed several times, these poor fella's actually thank a Magistrate for sending them to gaol ?

Like you Paul, you're very grateful for having the ability to pay the fare to catch your omnibus ? And I'm similarly grateful, for my two pensions. Otherwise I may well be squatting outdoors, somewhere like Belmore Park, these colder autumn nights ?

What is it they say...? There but for the grace of God, go I ? Some of us are very lucky, while others are not so lucky. Politics doesn't have anything to do with it, neither has religion ? Life's just a roll of the dice, nothing more nor less I reckon.
Posted by o sung wu, Sunday, 12 April 2015 11:10:14 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi o sung wu,

That is why I said "and I don't see what you did as harsh at all, in fact just the opposite" Every night so many people sleep rough on the streets in Sydney and I'm sure in lots of places. On the police side, a job I don't think they very much enjoyed, rounding up vagrants on the streets, taking them to the watch house, locking them up, but what was the alternative at that given moment. At one time if it wasn't The Salvation Army and a few others, it was left to the police to perform what was a vital function in society, getting people out of harms way and off the streets for a short time, and giving them that little bit of sustenance which otherwise they would not have. I'm pragmatic enough to say that didn't fix the problems long term, but it was vital in the short term, with no other alternative at hand. Unfortunately the police no longer perform that function and in many cases there is no real practical alternative in place. Too many remain on the streets and in serious harms way, charities can only do so much with their limited resources. Homelessness is a growing problem in our society.
I'm not a "believer" myself but an org I have mentioned before 'Father Chris Riley's Youth Off The Streets' does such a fantastic job with the limited resources they have. I know people who do fundraising for them and they can use every penny they get, and a few bob more.

http://www.youthoffthestreets.com.au/#/
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 13 April 2015 6:03:31 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi there PAUL1405...

I've had a good look at Father Chris RILEY'S work, at trying to reduce the number of homeless youth on our streets and public places. I've always had a high regard for him and all those who work tirelessly on his behalf. Over time, I've watched as he's tried to garner more funds from government, often without much success ? Unfortunately, there are other groups who're are in the same arena also seeking funds probably as worthy as Father Chris's organisation ?

However there is one or two others, who don't enjoy the same impeccable reputation as does the good Father Chris, therefore many members of the public are a little weary of where their funds might end up ?

On a personal note one gentleman I know, a Mr Les TWENTYMEN is an individual who I cannot come to terms with at all ? Previously he worked from Melbourne. And by all accounts his work down there was exemplary, and he did try his best to do the right thing by their troubled youth in Victoria.

Rather, my biggest complaint with Mr TWENTYMEN, I found the man to be a real 'know-all' ? Why are our kids this way or that, always claiming to have specific 'inside knowledge' exclusive to everyone else ?

Furthermore his attitude towards police, left much to be desired, apportioning significant blame on them for not having the ability to 'communicate' with the kids. Despite whatever it is they're trying to deal with in their Local Area Commands, concerning these troubled youths ?

Still Paul, my criticism is indeed personal, and I've even had some former colleagues indicate to me; my criticism of Mr TWENTYMEN is essentially unfounded ? So there you go mate !
Posted by o sung wu, Monday, 13 April 2015 3:59:30 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi o sung wu,

I just wanted to clear up something with you. Even though I am a pacifists and totally anti war. I hold no animosity towards those of all nations (the soldiers, the civilians) who are forced through conscription, or the ignorance of volunteering, or through the sway of the political leadership and those who control society, or just being there in the thick of it, for what happens. I was never comfortable with the anti Vietnam War protest when it targeted the young blokes who participated, the war was not their doing, to me I seen them as much a victim of that war as the Vietnamese civilians themselves.
WWI, take a naive 16 year old plus kid, fill his head full of patriotic nonsense about king and empire, train him to shoot, pack him off to a distant foreign land. Then on the 25th April 1915 have him attack an "enemy" he doesn't even know. I can blame a lot of people for that, but not the kid. Under different circumstances at a different time I could have been that kid.
So I have no problem being a member of 2 RSL's, and I have no problem attending the local Dawn Service, 6am ANZAC Day, and I count the local RSL Sub-Branch President as one of my friends.
I'll leave you with this, imagine if the 10 million had said 28th July 1914, I am not having a bar of this, and laid down their weapons, and refused to fight, No WWI, no 20 million dead and no 80 million more killed in wars there after. Just a thought.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 16 April 2015 6:10:00 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Paul1405, "I was never comfortable with the anti Vietnam War protest when it targeted the young blokes who participated, the war was not their doing, to me I seen them as much a victim of that war as the Vietnamese civilians themselves"

In Australia, conscription was the fundamental problem and focus of protest. Conscription IS always highly contentious. Conscription was and is rejected by Australians.

Protest organisers commented back then and later that their greatest concern was the few agent provocateurs who were forever trying to get into the peaceful marches and sit-downs to get their faces on TV. Whatever the few serial troublemakers were about, it was something else entirely. Likewise it was never clear just who the activists were representing.

Questions remain about the links between police Special Branch and others and these troublemaking elements, and links with the media as well. However the fact is that somehow the media's cameras were always on those 'radical' elements. That didn't harm governments that wanted to divert attention away from the peaceful protesting about conscription.

The lessons to be learned from Vietnam are twofold:

- first and foremost, it is NOT the case that the media are concerned about freedom of speech, but they are concerned about protesting their own freedom to do what they like, even where that invades law-abiding citizens' privacy and breaks laws;

- secondly, diplomacy often fails because humans are human and they believe their own 'take' on what others are thinking and doing, without ever questioning their own capacity to pre-judge. We all do that, but we expect better of our leaders who are paid handsomely to suspend their judgement and seek advice from across the board and especially, seek and value contrary opinion; and

- thirdly, governments are NOT necessarily your friends. A good government fears its public and with good cause.

The astounding thing about Vietnam was how keen and quick the media outlets were - all of them - to censor for government without even being asked. It was as though someone had pulled a switch! Go back and read the papers.
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 16 April 2015 1:22:23 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
That should be threefold.
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 16 April 2015 1:23:43 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Good evening to you PAUL1405...

I've never had a doubt concerning your degree of loyalty to this great country of ours, or your adherence to the traditions or customs we all observe and hold very dear to us. Nor does anyone condemn nor criticise an individual who holds a belief in pacifism or non-violence ! More often than not, it takes a great deal of courage to openly declare one's pacifists views when in public.

There are many others who currently belong to RSL Clubs who shouldn't be permitted through the front door ? And I have no doubt Paul, you'd be very warmly welcomed whenever you chose to attend a RSL club, anywhere ?

Your last paragraph is quite absorbing ? If every armed soldier in all our wars were to put down there arms and refused to fight ? What would happened ? Obviously there would be a massive saving of life for starters. The 'squillions' of Dollars directed for the war effort, would be re-directed, and put to better use ? Family's would remain together, without suffering horrible dislocation caused by all these unnecessary deaths. The downside is much more difficulty to determine ? Some 'experts' today claim, without wars the planet would becomes over-populated, and the numbers of indigent and starving people would increase exponentially !

My view is somewhat similar ? I'd rather have to tackle overpopulated areas, and starving people, then retrieving battle casualties. It would be far easier to feed millions of starving people, by preparing thousands of acres of land and growing food. Rather than trying to clear the same land area where hundreds of mines have been laid ?

Paul you and I are not that much different ? We're divided on some issues, but 'hey' who isn't ? Take it easy mate.
Posted by o sung wu, Thursday, 16 April 2015 10:04:31 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi o sung wu

I feel compelled to comment on the recent kerfuffle concerning Woolworths crass attempt to cash in on the original ANZAC's and Gallipoli. The "fresh food people" tried to associate themselves with this historic event by using the slogan "Fresh in our minds" and wanting, presumably customers and therefore increase sales and therefore profits, to post photos on their web site.
The Minister for Veterans Affairs, Senator Michael Ronaldson, was right to call Woolworths on this as being in bad taste and offensive to the memory of our fallen. No problem with that, but are they the only ones cashing in?
I walk into the Post Office, a wholly owned government business, and there is the Post Office trying also to cash in on the events of 1915, with a made in China Teddy Bear dressed in ANZAC uniform retailing for $89.99, along with an assortment of made in China ANZAC collectibles on sale. Minister give "them" a call!

On the anniversary of the "Victory in the Pacific", will we see the Mitsubishi Company release a limited edition collectible automobile? Toyota not wanting to be outdone on the sales front could do likewise.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 17 April 2015 8:32:28 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
G'day there PAUL1405...

On this issue I couldn't agree with you more ! Personally, and I do say personally, the whole concept of ANZAC day seems to have been high-jacked by those who have nothing to do with the day at all. Apparently according to many on radio, the shock jocks and their merry crew, we're supposed to savour or delight in the centenary of ANZAC ? I thought we were all to observe or memorialize the occasion, rather than 'enjoy' the day ? Mate, on this issue I really do get a head of steam ! Still I'm getting older and crankier, therefore perhaps my judgement is becoming more clouded and less finite ? But I agree totally with what you've said Paul, and good on you for speaking up about it ! Someone at least, understands the true meaning of ANZAC DAY.
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 17 April 2015 3:33:33 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Paul,

I'm right with you on this along with o sung wu.

I've decided not to attend this years march, ceremonies, or the RSL's free lunch as my own small and ineffectual protest at the crass commercialism of ANZAC Day.

Some of the lauded mini-series that have already come out have been ludicrous in some portrayals, in one of them a 'digger' leaping ashore at ANZAC Cove is armed with a WWII rifle, which is bad enough, but it's a Japanese service rifle!!
Apparently the only consultation that went on was with the finance department.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 17 April 2015 10:56:15 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi, o sung wu and Is Mise

I'm no expert myself but the made in China Post Office Teddy Bear, which incidentally is outrageously priced at 90 bucks, as is the rest of their so called "memorabilia" is wearing a 'slouch hat' my understanding is the original ANZAC's wore Pommy metal helmets. if I'm right I suppose we can't actually blame the Chinese for getting it wrong, they were not actually there.
I'm not opposed to doco's about ANZAC, I don't know about the TV programs coming out next week and what they will be like. I'm sure there will be quite a bit of poetic licence taken. There is one about Charles Bean (the official WWI correspondent) which hopefully will be well done. I must say I did, and my partner "T" also very much enjoyed Russell Crowe's 'Water Diviner' movie which we went to see on Boxing Day, not a war movie as such, although its about the events of war, but it did bring the Turkish participation and their side of things into the story. My partner is very anti-war but she said she enjoyed that movie with its story. On a lighter note I have set for recording 'Chips' Rafferty's 40,000 Horsemen made in 1940, on Fox Classics next week, along with a few other old B&W classics. On the score of that 40,000, according to my old man they made it with about 4 horsemen in the Cronulla sandhills, they just rode them around and around to make up the numbers, low budget, 'Chips' probably wanted a 100 quid to make the movie. LOL.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 18 April 2015 6:58:22 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Paul1405, "as is the rest of their so called "memorabilia" is wearing a 'slouch hat' my understanding is the original ANZAC's wore Pommy metal helmets"

Wrong. You are confusing battle dress with the uniform.

"The Australian Imperial Force (AIF) headwear 1914-1918
Thursday 17 July 2014 by Dianne Rutherford. 7 comments
Collection, Military Heraldry and Technology, First World War uniforms

..The most distinctive and recognisable article of clothing worn by the Australian soldier was the khaki felt slouch hat. This item of headwear had been worn in Australia for some years before the turn of the century and was also popular elsewhere in the world...

The slouch hat was first adopted in Australia by Colonel Tom Price in 1885 as the head dress for the Victorian Mounted Rifles, which he commanded. Originally it was worn looped up on the right hand side. The hat was widely worn by Australian troops during the Boer War, and in 1903, after Federation, it was universally adopted for the Australian Commonwealth Army."

https://www.awm.gov.au/blog/2014/07/17/australian-imperial-force-aif-headwear-1914-1918/

If you had ever been one of the school cadets you so despise and have ignorantly sledged previously on this forum (linking them to 'Brown Shirts' as I recall) you may have known that already.

I see no reason not to honour the lost and injured and their families and friends who never saw them return, or got them back forever crippled. Chinese made memorabilia or whatever is irrelevant as is any disagreement in hindsight with Australia's and NZ's role in the war. The sacrifices were made and we who are alive now remember them.

Although the Greens would like to score political points out of it. Such as the awful NSW Greens Shoebridge who along with the equally dreadful CFMEU (mates of the Greens) have tried to hijack ANZAC Day for their own secondary gain. Shameful.

It is the commemoration that matters. That is what ANZAC Day is about.
Posted by onthebeach, Saturday, 18 April 2015 1:15:28 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
G'day there ONTHEBEACH...

Your last sentence was right on target I reckon ! We should all commemorate ANZAC Day such as it's vital importance to all Australians.

I found your explanation concerning the origins of the 'Slouch' Hat very interesting. My maternal Grandfather was in the first War, and my paternal Grandfather was in the Anglo Boer War, serving with the British troops. I seem to remember very vaguely, seeing a small sepia photograph of him wearing a 'Pith' helmet in South Africa ? Unfortunately, he died in the early 1950's so I never had the opportunity to speak with him in detail about the Anglo Boer War ?

Interestingly my other Grandfather lasted much longer, only passing away in March of 1967. Even so, he'd never speak to us about the First World War very much, only that he was declared a TPI in the late 1950's such was the shocking injuries he received in France in 1915 or 1916 ? Extraordinarily, he had his 16th birthday in the trenches ! My only comment, at 16 I was still an immature, stupid young boy ! What a world of difference eh ?

You know ONTHEBEACH, I'm a veteran myself. Yet for reasons I'm unable to explain, I don't feel sufficiently worthy enough to wear my Grandfather's medals (on my right breast) on ANZAC Day ? I wore them once about 15 or 18 years ago, and it felt (to me at least) that I was (a) completely unworthy; and (b) I was an utter imposter ? Yet I followed correct military protocol - wearing my own gongs on the left hand side and my Grandfathers on the right hand side ?

My only uncertainty on this occasion of NOT wearing his medals - considering it's a 100 years since Australia came of age, perhaps I should try to overcome my reluctance or vacillation on wearing them, and 'honour' him, by exhibiting his 3 medals for the Centenary of ANZAC Day ? I'm still undecided ? If I had 'miniatures', perhaps I'd feel less uncomfortable ? Buggered if I know.
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 18 April 2015 4:34:05 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
o sung wu,

Wear them with pride, the ones on the left will balance them.

I had the chance to go to Vietnam, but I turned down the generous offer as I'd already heard enough from the blokes coming back to convince me that it wasn't my kind of a war!

I was in the then CMF so couldn't be sent against my will.
In my Defence Dept. job I was in constant contact with people who were going there/had returned and did a fair bit of emergency training of Fitters, Small Arms, who suddenly found themselves posted to units that were using weapons that had supposedly been phased out in the Australian Army and were no longer being taught.
A case of reality catching up with planning, just like the time when it was decided to rationalize the different types of small arms ammunition as there were considered to be just too many types.

When the dust settled we had one extra type!!
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 18 April 2015 5:36:53 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Beach, I didn't address my remarks to you, so get off your light horse, oh! you are so predictable. For 90 bucks I would want my 'Teddy Bear' (why is it a Teddy Bear anyway?) to be wearing what the ANZAC's wore on that faithful morning in 1915, helmet if it was so, and for 90 bucks you would think they would throw in a 'slouch' hat as well. The thing only stands about 60cm tall.

As for school cadets, Beach you did post some nonsense, and bemoan the fact, that they can no longer carry their rifles (presumably loaded) on buses (as if there ever did). As for "Brownshirts" you are the one who wanted some kind of para-military citizens militia trained. Oh yes, it would take the form of a benign type "gun club'. Given as you are to showing your true colours now and then, given to extreme right wing postings on this forum at times, I could not fail be question you real motives for a privately trained citizens "gun club".
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 18 April 2015 5:43:22 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Paul,

The ANZACS wore slouch hats or peaked caps or other soft headgear when they went ashore, it is doubtful if any of them had steel helmets as John Brodie's helmet was not patented till 1915 and did not go into serious production till 1916.

The Bear is a ripoff and anyone flogging it for around $90.00 ought to be boycotted.
Manufacturer's price is probably about $3.00 and landed price no more than about $8.00, add $1.00 or so cartage/handling and it's a nice little earner.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 18 April 2015 6:12:29 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi there IS MISE...

Thank you for your response, I really appreciate your thoughts on this dilemma of mine. The only comment you made which I couldn't possibly agree with you '...wear them with pride, the ones on the left will balance them...'.

NEVER IS MISE, could my twelve months over there, ever remotely equate to what my Grandfather went through,both in the Belgium and French trenches ! I'm not for a moment denouncing or lambasting what happened in my campaign, as that would be grossly disloyal to my Regiment !

Some really fine, good men....no, some really fine 'great' men died doing their duty over there, and whether you die in the heat of the tropical jungle, or swamped in the cold, wet trenches of France or Belgium, men lost their lives wherever !

I'll stand to be corrected, but in one major battle in WW l, in either France or Belgium, Australia lost more of it's fine 'SONS' in one particular assault, then what we lost in the entire Vietnam war (504 souls) ! You do understand where I'm coming from don't you ? I know you do, IS MISE you're far too smart to miss it. Thanks mate, thank you very much, I appreciate your advice immensely.
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 18 April 2015 6:40:17 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Paul1405,

You are all over the place with your creative storytelling and as usual, facts don't matter to the Greens. It is all about ideology and keeping the narrative going. LOL

Honestly, it is a scream when you make such obvious boo-boos, very revealing, but most don't care to comment, considering it a waste of their time.

Your posts confirm a lot that is said about the Greens and the NSW "Watermelon' Greens in particular. -You did say you stood unsuccessfully for the Greens in the NSW local government elections and you call that pretentious serial nuisance and fool Shoebridge, a friend, you say?

You have also posted your liking and respect for the CFMEU, promoting them as mates of the Greens. The CFMEU and Shoebridge have been in lock-step, trying to hitch a ride on ANZAC Day for their own shabby secondary agendas. That is grubby, shameful hypocrisy, but par for the course for the Greens.

Q: What does ANZAC Day mean for the Greens?

A: ?

O Sung Wu,

Go with deserved pride. All the very best.
Posted by onthebeach, Saturday, 18 April 2015 7:11:12 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi there PAUL1405 & ONTHEBEACH...

Paul my friend...

It is quite true that School Cadets used to take their rifles home with them, whenever they had something on, during a Saturday or over the weekend. They travelled often by public transport, without causing any alarm, or concern to the public. As the sight of a uniformed school cadet, with his SMLE No1 Mk3 was quite a common sight on public transport. Naturally, the rifles were never loaded, and some schools actually removed the bolt from each rifle.

In fact during the sixties and early seventies it was common to see uniformed servicemen travelling about with their rifles on public transport. Myself, in the mid-sixties, I was on the Rifle Team, and occasionally I'd caught both a bus and train from the Base to my home, whenever my car was out of action (which was quite often believe me). We were using the L1A1 SLR, in those days, and nobody ever batted an eyelid at me. Take it easy Paul, OK !

G'Day ONTHEBEACH...

Many thanks for you kind sentiments, I really appreciate them, though compared to those who served in the Great War of, 1914 - 1918 I'd hardly deserve even a mention ?

How times have changed eh ? From long periods of sustained 'ebullience' together with a sense of innocence' and euphoria, which we all enjoyed, almost right up to the end of the 1960's ?

Whereas we now live in a period of profound suspicion ? With a climate of fear and trepidation. An all pervading dread, and presage seems to be slowly enveloping the whole country ? With an absence of leadership, rising unemployment, increasing debt, the awful spectre of terrorism ? Where to from here I wonder ?

To celebrate the bicentenary of the Gallipoli landing, there'll be no Prime Minister, or other senior politicians in attendance ? Only the Grand Mufti of the 'Islamic Republic of Australia', and his eminent entourage, representing the entire Islamic State and their acclaimed brotherhood. Who celebrate the comprehensive defeat of the allies at the Dardanelles in 1915 !
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 18 April 2015 10:55:18 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Beach, the only state to declare Monday 27th April a public holiday is Western Australia. The state led by the LIBERAL Colin Barnett, the same Colin Barnett who this week has been crying poor mouth at the COAG meeting. What is it to be with The Liberals in WA are they too in the grip of the CFMEU or just shocking economic managers? You also forgot to mention that the NSW Fire Brigade Union also applied for a public holiday for its members on that date. You also forgot to mention that even the survey by Murdoch's redneck publication found 60% in favour of a holiday on 27th April. You miss a lot.

You launch a disparaging attack on me for participating in the democratic process, by standing for election, something you would soon see as unnecessary once your 'jackboot' regime was in place. Would it be a function of the "Shooters Club" to see to that?

You also said you were something in 'The University Regiment'. What battles did you participate in, besides the battle of the beers in the local pub. University Regiments, like school cadets, were always seen as little boys playing at soldiering, and during the Vietnam War a way for rich kids (with uni deferments) to show their "loyalty" and at the same time keep out of harms way.

When I need to know something I should just go to you, being the forums resident expert and know all on everything.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 19 April 2015 7:25:54 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Paul1405,

You are as usual very casual with your 'quotes' and your creative storytelling.

Moving on, what WA does is quite irrelevant. What you are desperately trying to conceal is the hypocrisy and self-interest of the opportunist Greens and their mates the CFMEU who are trying to hitch a ride on ANZAC Day for secondary gain. As a Greens you are most happy disrespecting the military and those who serve, recently patronising Diggers who volunteered as dupes.

What about you disclose if David Shoebridge has had prior role with the CFMEU and any benefits in particular support and money the Greens receive from the CFMEU?

It seems that the Greens and Labor might have a lot in common. Here is an article about the CFMEU and Queensland Labor,

<How CFMEU milked the workers and gave it to the ALP

A FORMER High Court judge has found serious union wrongdoing in the Queensland building industry and recommended criminal charges against a union boss with strong links to the Palaszczuk Government.

The Royal Commission into Trade Union Governance and Corruption found there were bribes, extortion, secret commissions and “other unlawful payments’’ involving members of the CFMEU, a powerful union and Labor backer whose members in Queensland include Police Minister Jo-Ann Miller and Jim Pearce, the Member for Mirani.

There were no suggestions of impropriety by Miller or Pearce although Justice John Dyson Heydon’s interim report to Parliament was scathing against their union.

“The evidence indicates that a number of Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union officials seek to conduct their affairs with a deliberate disregard for the rule of law,’’ Heydon said.

“That evidence is suggestive of the existence of a pervasive and unhealthy culture within the CFMEU, under which the law is to be deliberately evaded, or crashed through as an irrelevance.’’

He said union officials “prefer to lie rather than reveal the truth and betray the union”.>
http://tinyurl.com/o3qhh3k
Posted by onthebeach, Sunday, 19 April 2015 2:00:32 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
contd..

I would assume that as a lawyer, Greens Shoebridge would not have any part in anything illegal.

However it does raise serious questions about what the NSW 'Watermelon' Greens are doing apparently in bed with the CFMEU, a union that has a chequered history and that is putting it very mildly indeed.
Posted by onthebeach, Sunday, 19 April 2015 2:11:47 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
o sung wu,

There are political interests on both sides of politics who benefit from the superficial personality politics that are the vogue and the same people know that fear, greed etc sells newspapers and gives them free publicity to boot.

The very last thing some politicians and governments want is accountability for their record in government and over an extended period.

It was LNP politician and master of divisive politics PM Howard (even better at it than Mal Fraser), who gave the most significant and lasting boost to fear politics in Australia. For example, by wearing a bulletproof vest is address the public.

Of course Howard had nothing to offer to stop the lone wolf, but he dishonestly would not say so, because he regarded the public as too immature to understand. No-one haa a proof against the lone wolf and determined assailants, as shown by Evan Pederick, Hilton Hotel bombing before. The answer is intel from observant, public-spirited relatives and friends. It is good policing to maintain good relations with the law-abiding public.

The Greens protest party spruiks gun-ban fear politics, adopting Howard's political meme of 'gun culture' playing fast and loose with the truth as they do so.

Any reasonable, thinking person would wonder why the Greens focus on sledging the thousands of law-abiding, respectable citizens who have obtained licences and can reliably expected to obey all laws. Yet the Greens talk up the 'rights' of outlaw motorcycle gangs who are implicated in all manner of crime, including violence with weapons, which they import.
Posted by onthebeach, Sunday, 19 April 2015 3:08:55 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Beach, produce evidence of Greens "talk(ing) up the 'rights' of outlaw motorcycle gangs who are implicated in all manner of crime, including violence with weapons, which they import." OR is that simply an example of YOU playing fast and loose with the truth, something on this forum you are apt to do constantly.

What WA does is quite irrelevant, but what is done in Queensland is relevant. Can you enlighten me as to what are the relevant and irrelevant states. You choose to 'cheery pick' what suited your line from a Murdoch publication about the CFMEU and Greens, but left out any reference from the same article about The Fire Brigade Union or a poll on the subject taken for the paper. Why?
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 19 April 2015 3:36:35 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Paul1405, "produce evidence of Greens "talk(ing) up the 'rights' of outlaw motorcycle gangs"

You are in denial, what about the Greens in the recent Qld State election? There is plenty in The Courier Mail and The Gold Coast Bulletin. You were given links earlier.

You are also in denial concerning the NSW Greens and the CFMEU. See here,
onthebeach, Saturday, 18 April 2015 7:11:12 PM

Now, while on the subject of ANZAC Day,

Q: What does ANZAC Day mean for the Greens?

A: ?
Posted by onthebeach, Sunday, 19 April 2015 3:45:11 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi there IS MISE...

I note you served with the CMF for a time ? It's bloody hard to get the old khaki out of your blood once you've worn it for a time ! I too joined the CMF sometime after my discharge from the ARA, and served while I was in uniform with the NSWPOL. Our roster clerk was quite accommodating in order to allow us CMF blokes to attend most weekly parades, and monthly weekend camps, as well as the annual camp. I think it was a direction from those on high to allow CMF personnel to attend as many CMF functions as operationally possible ?

A few funny situations occasionally arose, as you'd expect in a large organisation such as ours. Like a senior constable mate of mine, who held a commission (a substantive Captain) in the CMF, totally outranked a couple of sergeants and an Inspector, of which all three were pretty 'tight' as it were, as coppers, fortunately for those concerned, they all served with the 'drop shorts' an entirely different unit to my mate, who was with the engineers !

Another curious aspect of our organisation, many of those who chose to serve with the CMF, elected to serve with the Provost Corps ? You'd think wearing a blue uniform for eight hours a day was more than enough exposure to law enforcement, I would've thought ? Apparently not, they wished to be policemen, even in the CMF ? Go figure eh ? Great days though ? Eventually I was discharged because of my inability to attend regular parades, once I went into plain clothes.
Posted by o sung wu, Sunday, 19 April 2015 4:06:33 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
O sung wu,

I fist donned khaki as a Nasho in 13th NS Bn, I was then in the CMF at Homebush in the Royal Aust Signals unit that was stationed there.
I wasn't there long before I joined the ARA.
A few years after I was discharged I joined the CMF again but this time in RAEME.
Some funny things did happen, I was giving a lesson on the use of the Owen Gun and the strange drill that went with firing it; firing to the front one was supposed to stand with the feet evenly spaced (at ease position) and at the command 'Action right/left', jump up in the air and turn and land, still with the feet evenly spaced, and be at right angles to the original position.
The gun was to be held against the right hip at 90 degrees to the rigid hips.

I put everyone through this and did it a few times.
Then I said "Now do you all understand this drill?"
A chorus of "Yes, Sir".

Then I said "Well, it's all bull and must have been thought up by some chair bound dill".

I then showed them how to use it, left foot forward, slightly crouched, gun butt on the waistline/hip (whatever was comfortable) and the muzzle directly under the line of sight.
Initial action right/left by swiveling at the hips and move the feet later.

Cont.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 19 April 2015 8:44:54 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
cont.

Just as I was finishing the lesson some of the lads were giving me eye signals that someone was behind me.
I dismissed them to their next lesson and turned to find the CO behind me.
He was a WW II veteran ad had been in New Guinea etc.,
"Bloody good lesson" he remarked and then went on to discuss something else.
He was very practical and some parade nights there were odd sights.
Such as a Fireman on parade in his Fire Brigade uniform because he was on duty at the local fire station.
Then there were the few occasions when there was a Lieutenant in the ranks of my platoon; he was a school teacher and held honorary rank as
an Officer in charge of a unit of school cadets. When he had to attend a meeting of Cadet Officers he sometimes didn't have the time to change into his private's uniform, so the Boss would let him wear his officer's rig.
Off parade he was given his due as an officer and all of his mates made sure that he got enough salutes to tire his right arm.

It was good to have a practical CO!!
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 19 April 2015 9:49:26 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Beach, I asked for evidence, the type of stuff you find in a court room. Dribble published in Murdoch's trashy anti Green publications is hardly evidence. Who is your star witness for the prosecution Piers Ackerman!

What does ANZAC Day mean for the Greens? A senseless question, as there is no official policy in relation to ANZAC Day. The Greens as a political party is made up of members, and each individual member could have a different answer.

If I pose the question; What do little children mean to the Catholic Church? Each church member would have a entirely different answer. From someone to be loved, to someone to be molested!

Every time I put it to you to name names, or produce evidence, you cut and run.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 19 April 2015 10:18:24 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Good evening to you, IS MISE...

Doing everything the Army way ! 'By numbers' somewhat repetitive, but it worked and that was the main objective. A case of 'great coats on' and 'great coats off' ? Or, 'hurry up and wait' there were a million and one, protocols one was required to learn, and generally speaking they proved immensely successful !

Funny enough I spent far less time in the ARA (6 years) and the CMF (an aggregate of about 5 years), then in the NSWPOL (over 32 years before retirement). It's the Army that I miss most, if you can believe it ?

As an example I try to recognise all post WW 11 medal ribbons, eligibility for award, campaign, timeline, correct order on their 'ribbon bar', etc. ? I don't know IS MISE, I reckon Khaki does infiltrate one's blood stream ? Though I've taken my discharge, the khaki never really leaves you, nor do you leave it ?

Your description of giving a 'weapon instruction' lesson and methodology, brings back some happy memories too ? You'd recall you don't make a slightest move, until permitted to do so when being taught a new weapon system ? I was required to undertake the normal conversion from the, SMLE No 1 Mk3, to the L1A1 SLR 7.62.

After completing the short conversion course, you could be sure that you knew absolutely everything about the jolly thing, before you were ever issued with one ? Even finite details on the correct 'gas check' setting etc. ! You know, I wouldn't alter a single component as far as the Australian Army's training methods were concerned ? They are the very best, perhaps that's why they're the best Army in the world !

Great days to be sure IS MISE.
Posted by o sung wu, Sunday, 19 April 2015 10:50:18 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
G'day ONTHEBEACH...

Sorry for my delay in acknowledging your most recent contribution. As I said to PAUL1405 awhile ago, I did have a measure of respect for the Greens when they first kicked off. Like many Aussies, I do support the preservation of Australia's more unique and precious flora and fauna. And the Greens looked like a group who would honour that objective, and use it as an important 'plank' within their core strategies, and policy objectives ?

However as time passed, they seem to have well and truly departed from their proposed core values and branched out into all the other major policies that should be better left to the major parties to administer ? It's for this reason, I believe them now to be a very disruptive and uncooperative group of individuals, that by their very presence in our federal parliamentary system, will only lead to political mayhem and economic dislocation, as evidenced by their continued blockages, of key economic reform in the Senate ?

In fact they're not unlike those of the 'Palmer United Party', another quite bizarre group of demented character's, who wouldn't have the remotest idea of what's required of them as Senators in our Federal Parliament ? And then of course there's that very peculiar 'woman' in Tasmania, who seems set to totally vandalize, even wreck, any veneer we might have of possessing a responsible government in Canberra ? We should have strong laws in place, that directly accommodate people like her, purely for the protection of our country ?

She's an absolute ignominy to us all, a truly humiliating figure ! A psychiatric feast, an entire banquet even ! A genuine 'loony tunes', but her penchant for being completely disruptive and threatening, she's positively dangerous for our hard earned reputation as a 'first world' Nation ! It could only happen here in Oz eh, ONTHEBEACH ?
Posted by o sung wu, Monday, 20 April 2015 4:36:57 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
o sung wu,

To get back to your dilemma over wearing the grandfather's medals;

If you wear them then you are honouring him, think about it, mate, I'm sure that he'd be proud to think that his grandson also did his bit.

Vietnam was nasty alround and I've done some counselling of blokes who fought there over the years, mainly listening and offering a bit of advice, but the important thing has been offering a sympathetic ear and letting them pour it out.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 20 April 2015 6:20:10 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Good evening to you IS MISE...

Thank you for your very kind counsel on this delicate matter. As you say, we all served honourable and I suppose that in itself justifies wearing them. Being worn on the 'Right' breast, reflects adequately to anybody who's capable of making the distinction, will realize they're being worn by a close family member, or the NOK, of the original recipient ?

Moreover, my true intent, of wearing them, is specifically to honour his service in the Great War, now a century in the past. The first and only time I wore them (around 16 or 17 years ago) made me , very uncomfortable indeed - I felt like an imposter or pretender and very 'unworthy' ? This was despite observing the strictest of military protocol, and wearing them on the Right breast ?

Your interesting ruminations on repairing and reconditioning many of our small arms was very interesting indeed IS MISE ! In your many travels did you and your colleagues ever need to do much with the old F1 SMG ? As you would know, it replaced the magnificent trusty old Owen, and closely resembled the Sterling, except for the vertical magazine ? Those who carried them seemed happy enough with them ? Personally the M16 was good for me I reckon. Thanks again old mate, much appreciated your sage advice. Take it quietly on the 25th of April next, OK IS MISE ?
Posted by o sung wu, Monday, 20 April 2015 9:14:52 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear O Sung Wu,

Thank You for this discussion.

Today - 25th April 2015, this Anzac Day, we Commemorate
100 years of Australians at War 1915 - 2015.

"From the shores of Gallipoli
to the valleys of Afghanistan - in theatres of war and peace -
this Anzac Day, we commemorate 100 years of service and
sacrifice by the men and women of the Australian Defence Force."

This milestone year - the centenary of the Anzac landing
at Gallipoli - is significant in our nation's history.
It is important to remember and commemorate more than a
century of service and sacrifice by those Australian men and
women who have served and continue to serve - in defence of
our values and freedoms.

THE ODE

"They shall not grow old,
as we that are left grow old;

Age shall not weary them,
nor the years condemn.

At the going down of the
sun and in the morning.

We will remember them."
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 25 April 2015 1:58:34 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi there FOXY...

Many thanks for your very poignant and evocative contribution, it was brilliant and in my humble opinion it said it all ! A century has elapsed since our troops and our close neighbours the New Zealand troops, intrepidly waded ashore on the narrow, bullet strewn beaches of the Gallipoli Peninsula.

Not forgetting either the brave British troops as well as a number of other nationalities, all of whom joined us in a vain attempt to secure the Gallipoli stronghold, therefore allowing the British Navy free access to sail through the Dardanelles.

And eight long murderous months later, the allies had to withdraw, though temporally beaten, never actually vanquished in the outcome of that terrible war that saw countless millions of both military and civilian casualties that followed. Did we learn anything ? No, of course not, not a scintilla of anything ! The human race is the most stupid and dense of all living species, without doubt !

IS MISE...

For the second time only in my entire life, I wore my Grandfather's three WW 1 Medals ! It felt as if it was expected of me, very strange ? My first time, as I said earlier, I felt profoundly unworthy. On this occasion I didn't. I felt as if I was 'bearing' them on his behalf ? Without your comments - I don't believe I would've at all. Thank you.
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 25 April 2015 6:06:50 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear O Sung Wu,

I am so pleased that Is Mise managed to persuade you
to wear the medals.

We're told that "from a population of fewer than five
million, 417,000 men enlisted. By the end of the war,
more than 60,000 Australians had been killed and
156,000 wounded, gassed or taken prisoner".

We're also told that "The Great War came at a
significant economic and social
cost to Australia. Supporting the war effort and keeping
the home fires burning took the efforts of an entire
nation".

For anyone interested in learning more about the Anzacs,
visit -

http://www.anzacportal.dva.gov.au
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 25 April 2015 9:06:38 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi o sung wu,

We attended the local Dawn Service along with a couple of hundred other people organised by the RSL Sub-branch and local council. It was a moving ceremony, and my partner was able to join in and sing the New Zealand national anthem in Maori, there were many NZ'er there, that was nice for her. I have no problem with the wreath laying by the old comrades in remembrance of those who never returned, and the one laid by the little girl on behalf of all the ANZAC's, along with wreaths from an assortment of others. What does annoy me somewhat is the wreath laying by a swag of insincere politicians, five in total, Mayor, Deputy-mayor, two state members and the Federal member, all Labor, so what. They represent for me the real cause of wars which should never happen. Seeing them do that makes me glad I am a pacifists.
p/s The kids got Nanna Kiwi last night to make them a big batch of ANZAC biscuits. The debate is now who invented them, Aussie's or Kiwi's. They claim they are 100% New Zealand, we beg to differ! I got to agree they know the recipe, but was it a case of espionage on their part, we'll never know.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 25 April 2015 9:17:29 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi there PAUL1405...

Notwithstanding anybody's political proclivities, you'd need to be a very hard, entrenched individual indeed, not to be moved by the evocative sentiment of the Dawn Service, as you and your partner were. Her joining in of a rendition of the NZ National Anthem in Maori, would've been very moving I reckon ! Actually I believe I've heard a male Maori Choir sing it in it's entirety, and it was truly beautiful with their deep resonant voices.

Paul, I'm sick to death of all these bloody politicians, being sent to Gallipoli, and other important national events at tax payers expense ! Only the respective PM's from both our countries need attend at Gallipoli as an example. Not all the 'hanger's on' and other political parasites !

Therefore I couldn't agree with you more. If they wish to attend a particular event, let them pay their own way, like everybody else. Instead of forever cadging on the public purse as they invariably do ? It's no wonder they're all held in such low esteem by society, these blatant, audacious 'freeloaders and scroungers'! Politicians are like water on a leaky roof, the water gets in everywhere that it's not wanted !

Paul, if I had my time again - I'd like to be detective I/C of a special political squad with the express remit of investigating ALL politicians at all strata. Federal, State and Local Governments. Anyone who's engaged in any manner of malfeasance and other crimes of fraud, corruption, perjury, chicanery, deceptive conduct, artifice, treachery, unconscionable conduct, even being badly attired while in parliament ? Well, perhaps that's taking things too far ?

Nevertheless Paul, please forgive me my moment of 'reverie' - I am an old man, a veteran, and it is ANZAC Day ?
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 25 April 2015 10:12:15 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
o sung wu,

That's great that you wore his medals; and you've made my day, mate.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 26 April 2015 8:43:30 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi o sung wo,

Got to say those Turks are an understanding lot, with all those tourists, polys, media, etc trampling in to commemorate ANZAC Day at Gallipoli, and what was an invasion of their country. Then again the tourist dollar, or in this case the Turkish lira, is worth having and a big draw card. I wounder how we would feel if the boot was on the other foot and 1000's of Turks turned up at Bondi to commemorate Mustafa Kemal Atatürk birthday or some such thing. The Turks I have met over the years are generally a good bunch of people. Very pragmatic, I worked with several Turks, many with children celebrated Xmas, as one said to me; "We are in Australia and my kids are not going to miss out." Another Turk at a social function we attended was having a scotch, when I asked "drinking scotch"? His reply; "What Allah can't see wont hurt him," I though that was funny.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-25/anzac-day-2015-live-blog/6418912
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 26 April 2015 8:58:36 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Paul,

I found out that "Army biscuits, known as
Anzac wafers or tiles, were a hard biscuit
eaten by soldiers as bread substitute. They
were often ground up and eaten as porridge".

"The Anzac biscuit we are familiar with today
was developed by the wives and girlfriends
of our soldiers. A sweet biscuit made of rolled
oats and bound with golden syrup or treacle
(eggs were scarce during the war) were sent to
the frontline by ships of the Merchant Navy."

ANZAC BISCUITS

Ingredients

* 1 cup each of plain flour, sugar,
rolled oats and coconut

* 4 ounces butter (115g)

* 1 tablespoon treacle (golden syrup)

* 2 tablespoons boiling water (add a little
more water if mixture is too dry)

* 1 teaspoon bi-carbonate soda

Method

1. Grease tray and pre-heat oven to 180C
2. Combine dry ingredients
3. Melt together butter and golden syrup
Combine water and bi-carbonate soda -
add to butter mixture.
4. Mix butter mixture and dry ingredients
5. Drop teaspoon of mixture onto tray
6. Bake for 10 - 15 minutes or until golden
Allow to cool on tray for a few minutes
before transferring to cooling racks.

Makes approximately 35 biscuits.

(From an original recipe provided by Mr Bob Lawson
an ANZAC present at the Gallipoli landing).
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 26 April 2015 10:35:03 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Paul,

I remember sitting in a tent with an Indian Army officer, who was a Muslim, and when he picked up his glass of whisky he said, "If it be sinful to drink this may Allah strike it from my hand", a slight pause then he took an appreciative sip.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 26 April 2015 11:17:50 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi there FOXY & PAUL1405...

FOXY...

I did heed the advice from IS MISE, and wore my Grandfather's medals, and I'm very glad I did so. You see, I value much of what IS MISE says. He's a very shrewd educated, and travelled individual. Moreover his knowledge of both the military and military small arms is immense. And as a Korean War veteran, he must be heard - why ? Because, the Korean War is known as the forgotten war, and it must never be forgotten, nor should the brave Australians who fought there, be forgotten ! As I said, I do greatly value his opinion.

Thank you for relating the recipe for ANZAC biscuits too, personally I love 'em ! The old teeth do have a bit of a trial trying to chew them, nevertheless they taste pretty good in my opinion ? Though as a bread substitute back in those dark days, perhaps I'd not be quite so enamoured with them ?

PAUL1405...

What an interesting proposition eh ? I often wonder myself what those in the Turkish Government think behind closed doors, about all those Aussies making this huge pilgrimage to their shores once yearly to celebrate a 'defeat' ? No doubt, they earn a big quid from it all, both before and after the 25 April each and every year, so why should they complain ?

Still their history books would be full of data, detailing specifics of the immense battles and the number of Turkish souls lost, over the eight months of the campaign. Win, lose or draw, they lost many more than the Allies combined, according to what I've read and heard ? Still as you say, I wonder what we'd think, if thousands of Turks, or Germans even Japanese arrived on Bondi beach each year to celebrate a defeat ? A very interesting question indeed ?
Posted by o sung wu, Sunday, 26 April 2015 3:02:49 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear O Sung Wu,

Diaries, letters and postcards offered troops
a small respite from the hardships of war
and today they give us an invaluable insight into
life on the frontline.

We owe a great debt to the many Australian
men and women who served - and continue to serve
in defence of our values and freedoms.
Be it in the First World War, the Second
World War, the Korean War, the Malayan Emergency,
The Vietnam War, the Indonesian Confrontation, the
Gulf War, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Peacekeeping 1947 -
present.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 26 April 2015 4:00:30 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi there FOXY...

By gee you are an amazing lady indeed ! So very well read. Most folk forget, the Malayan Emergency and Indonesian Confrontation, truly astonshing ! I recall a mate of mine in Melbourne, wanted to join a suburban RSL, and when the RSL official asked where it was that he served, he replied '...the Indonesian Confrontation...' The RSL bloke replied, what happened there ? Truly extraordinary FOXY !
Posted by o sung wu, Sunday, 26 April 2015 4:54:08 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear O Sung Wu,

All the credit belongs not to me but to -
The Hon. Kevin Andrews MP, Minister for
Defence, who provided the people in his
electorate with a leaflet about the Anzacs.
I managed to glean quite a lot of information
from his leaflet. It really was as you say -
"extraordinary" and made me realise that this
milestone year - the centenary of the Anzac landing
at Gallipoli is significant beyond measure to our
nation's history.

I've placed the leaflet aside in an album for my
grand-children.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 26 April 2015 5:10:32 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi FOXY...

So we've a politician who's actually earning his salary for a change ? The Hon Kevin ANDREWS the Minister for Defence, has prepared a Note describing every conflict Australia has become involved, that's interesting. Actually, as a nation we've always 'punched well above our weight' at the end of the day.

Some would say we should try much harder, to ensure we not involve ourselves, with overseas issues that don't actually concern us ? There again the world's becoming much smaller, therefore it's probably becoming very difficult not to become involved, I don't really know ?

There's only one 'absolute' in my mind FOXY. The next World War has already begun. It will slowly increase, until the entire world has become inflamed. It's a very sinister and menacing Religious War:- The Islamic World Vs The Rest of us ! It's been on the slow boil for the last Forty or Fifty years. And there's probably not a damn thing anyone of us, neither Muslim nor Christian, can do about it ?
Posted by o sung wu, Sunday, 26 April 2015 6:19:49 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear O Sung Wu,

I'm going to sound like a broken record
once again and repeat what I've written in
the past.

I think that predicting the future is a bit
risky at the best of times. Whether we choose to destroy our
civilisation or save it - is a collective decision -
and it may well be made within our life times.

However if more and more nuclear weapons are built,
and if more sophisticated means of delivering them are
devised, and if more and more nations get control of these
vile devices then we surely risk our own destruction.

However, if ways are found to reverse that process, then
we can divert unprecedented energy and resources to the
real problems that face us, including poverty, disease,
overpopulation, and so on.

All we can do is hope and trust that our ultimate choice will
be to enhance the life on the bright and lovely planet
on which billions of us share our adventure.

Take care.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 26 April 2015 7:53:04 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear FOXY...

I can only hope that you are right, and I'm completely wrong. My thoughts or predictions are of ultimate destruction - yours are of hope and salvation. I know which of them I'd chose ?

Take care FOXY.
Posted by o sung wu, Sunday, 26 April 2015 9:09:48 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 13
  7. 14
  8. 15
  9. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy