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The Forum > General Discussion > Should Professor Gillian Triggs - President of the HR Commission resign?

Should Professor Gillian Triggs - President of the HR Commission resign?

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I cannot understand the Abbott Government's furious
reaction to the Australian Human Rights Commission's
Report about children in immigration detention.
Even to the point that apparently moves are made
to get the Human Rights
Commission President Professor Gillian Triggs to resign.

I question the right of the government to attack the
independence and integrity of a Commission and its
President for merely doing
their job - namely, calling out governments for breaching
objective human rights law standards.

We're told that the Commisson did not politically target
the Abbott Government. The Commission called out both the
Coalition and Labor Governments and acknowledged
improvements under the Coalition.

This entire matter is very disturbing.

Your opinions please.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-16/saul-attacks-on-commission-unbefitting-our-government/6115078
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 24 February 2015 9:21:49 PM
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She has shown she is prepared to use her taxpayer funded office for political purposes, & grandstanding.

She must go.
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 24 February 2015 10:30:41 PM
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Someone who sees guns where there is no guns obviously lacks credibility.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 24 February 2015 10:42:05 PM
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The entire matter "is" very disturbing, Foxy.

Anyone who witnessed Abbott's hysterical rant in Question Time today would know that the govt is completely rattled by the report - and more rattled because it has absolutely no power to dispense with Trigg's services.

In Estimates today, those present were treated to a most disgusting performance by Ian Macdonald who, although, appointed to Chair the hearing, hadn't even bothered to read the report. His behaviour was abhorant.

But Brandis is the one who should be considering his position - not Triggs.

"The criminal code says it is an offence to offer “a benefit, or the promise of the provision of a benefit … with the intention of influencing a public official”."

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/feb/24/liberals-senate-estimates-gillian-triggs-human-rights-commission

And why - if the the govt was so unhappy with her conduct - did Brandis (by means of one of his underlings) seek to offer her another position with the govt if she resigned as President of the commission?

The upshot being that it makes not one jot of difference whether the AHRC has or has not the "confidence" of the govt. It is an independent watchdog - and does not operate under the auspices of the govt.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 24 February 2015 11:25:41 PM
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@foxy
dont be perplexed
ask the lady herself
she knows she is guilty like hell for being mischievous
she should consider herself lucky for that offer of a lesser job

i say she should go and go quietly
maybe take up the alternative offer and learn to be a good officer

@poirot

i am still mulling over your in-depth and long analysis..as usual...very lengthy
hmmmmm....
ok...i give up... i am not clever enough...hhh
Posted by platypus1900, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 12:00:19 AM
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yeah, platypus...

The difference being that you're talking out of the top of your hat...like runner and Hasbeen.

None of you could give a hoot regarding the actual substance of the matter.

Now run along and play.....
Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 12:41:15 AM
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The real question is why does the Human Rights Commission continue to exist at all?

Staffing 142, up by 19 since the time of the Budget!

There needs to be a sunset clause built into bodies like this that go on forever and doubtless put a lot of those taxpayers' dollars into ensuring they continue to exist.

Vulnerable groups like the aged are continually being asked to tighten their belts, but elitist agencies like this one are growing annually!
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 1:06:51 AM
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I agree it is an absolute disgrace re the way this Government, and a PM with ongoing foot-in-mouth disease, is treating Gillian Triggs and the Human Rights Commission.

They don't like what they hear about children in detention being abused, because that would go against their stance on detaining all 'illegal' asylum seekers for long periods of time.

Whatever anyone feels about asylum seekers, surely no one blames the children for the actions of their parents?
Theses kids ARE being abused by this Government.....no doubt about it.
Posted by Suseonline, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 1:11:09 AM
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children of asylum seekers?
seriously?

these are people who are part of the international refugee racket
i sympathize with them and know why they want a better life
but please go thru the right channels
not when you come on boats while the others patiently fill up forms and wait to be called up

funny thing is we australians do not really want too many indians .. chinese...middle easterns... and years back, we dont like the italian mafias as well, BUT at the same time we cry foul about children of the boat people

how hypocritical

for those who cry foul on how these children are caught in between, let me paint you a scenario

me and my family camp outside your palatial villa (assuming you are rich...your children are well fed and well clothed and mine are scrawny)
it is illegal to camp ourside your house but i would like to share your wonderful villa..just a small room and also some of your leftovers for my hungry kids
you call the police to evict me but i refused to budge
then the HR Commission writes a report on how my poor children are hungry and subjected to the glare of the media... and how their childhood is lost in the process

this country does have people with pretty warped ideas
Posted by platypus1900, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 1:25:49 AM
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suseonline, "Theses kids ARE being abused by this Government.....no doubt about it"

Then the previous Labor+Greens government must have been ten times worse, with 2,000 children in detention and growing, because Rudd trashed the working 'Pacific Solution' implemented by Howard.

Compared with the previous government the Abbott government has excelled at reducing the number.
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 1:28:06 AM
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Should Professor Gillian Triggs - President of the HR Commission resign?

ABSOLUTELY!

If Gillian Triggs was not politically motivated/corrupt she would have released her report when Labor was in Government and 2000 children were in detention.

Yet the old faithful - Foxy, Poirot and Suse see nothing hypocritical or suspicious in her timing.

This is one case when shooting the messenger is totally justifiable. But she won't resign because the longer she stays the longer the ABC can use the story to undermine the Government.
Posted by ConservativeHippie, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 7:19:56 AM
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The previous report was done in 2004, it was them scheduled for the next report to be 2014, so the report was on time but the finding was that nothing had changed.

It will take a royal commission to get to the bottom of this disgrace.
Triggs is just the messenger, but the Abbott worshipers can find fault of political means. Even though it covers both sides of politics.

Abbott has a vested interest, in no asylum seeker will be allowed into AU, apparently this includes kids, and the report stated the situation be fixed in one month from the tabling in parliament of the document.

Abbott left the tabling till the last day, and close to midnight to table the report. Abbott is running scared of his political ars-e being set on fire
Posted by 579, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 8:03:12 AM
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Well goodness me!

I see CH, otb and the glorious platypus (who appears oddly to be missing a shift key on his/her PC/tablet) are so busy slamming refugees, their kids and the rest of us - that they've no capacity to be outraged the the first law officer of the land saw fit to allegedly offer an inducement to a public official.

Come on otb, surely you can manage a bit of your standard moral outrage on that one. If a Labor Attorney General had acted in a similar manner, we'd have to rush for the smelling salts - you'd be that overcome in your denunciation.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-24/labor-wants-afp-to-investigate-ag-department-over-triggs-offer/6257940

"Gillian Triggs: Opposition calls on AFP to investigate allegations George Brandis offered Human Rights Commission president 'inducement to resign'"
Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 8:45:29 AM
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LOL Poirot, that is the Opposition doing what they do. -The ones who created the problem in the first place and held 2,000 children in detention.

That Gillian Triggs hasn't offered to resign earlier is very surprising and inexplicable.

However, she has demonstrated why the Commission should be closed down and its functions absorbed into the mainstream departments. Honestly now, if it sits for ten years on what she would now like the Parliament to believe was an urgent problem, 2,000 back then, what is the worth of the Commission at all?

The Commission waited all of that time and until the numbers had been taken back to 200 to report? It was too 'political' before but quite OK now? No wonder the AHC does not have the confidence of the Parliament. Why not ask the public if they would support the continued waste of taxpayers' dollars on maintaining a separate bureaucracy for the AHC elite?
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 9:43:42 AM
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The Opposition said the offer of another government position to Professor Triggs by the secretary of Attorney-General George Brandis's department on his behalf could constitute corrupt and unlawful conduct.
Shadow attorney-general Mark Dreyfus wrote to the AFP Commissioner seeking an immediate investigation and possible prosecution regarding the conduct of Senator Brandis.
Professor Triggs said there was 'no doubt in her mind' that the request to resign and the offer of further work were 'very clearly linked'

Last year when Tony Abbott wanted to take on Islamic State, he reportedly thought about sending 3500 Australian ground troops to invade northern Iraq, although Mr Abbott and the Department of Defence have denied this. Apparently Ms Credlin offered no resistance to the idea. But military planners were aghast and quickly talked PM out of it. Now the suggestion has people questioning Mr Abbott’s judgment — again.

Tony Abbott's decision to link tsunami aid to the Bali Nine executions helped no one and just provided Indonesia with the excuse to ignore Australia's diplomatic advances from now on.

Despite promising to be more consultative after the non-coup two weeks ago, Tony Abbott is still making poor unilateral decisions and statements that are chipping away at his authority.
Posted by 579, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 9:56:36 AM
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Poirot

"The difference being that you're talking out of the top of your hat...like runner and Hasbeen.

None of you could give a hoot regarding the actual substance of the matter."

And you lady are talking out of the lower part of your back. If a Lib did such a thing, you'd be screaming from the roof tops, even perhaps if the perpetrator was a female. Just a lefty troll seems a good description.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 10:09:03 AM
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Thanks for that, otb.

So you can't find it within yourself to crank up your moral outrage meter on the alleged attempt to induce a public official?

Isn't it lovely to be the purveyor of selective outrage!

Problem for the govt is that although they have certain powers, it turns out that they're not particularly bright - at every turn their ineptitude and dodgy dealings are exposed.
Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 10:10:24 AM
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Hasbeen,

Any comment on the alleged attempt of inducement to a public official?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-24/bradley-brandis-or-triggs-must-go-and-it-shouldnt-be-her/6251370

"George Brandis's attack on Gillian Triggs, and her testimony that she was asked to resign as president of the Human Rights Commission, shows he has trampled all over the conventions that govern his own role as first law officer"

"She says the secretary, Chris Moraitis, told her she would be offered another government job if she fell on her sword. At the same (super awkward) hearing, Brandis then said he had lost confidence in Triggs, that the impartiality of the HRC has been fatally compromised and that he cannot support it if it is not impartial.

This is, wow, extraordinary.

The first law officer of the Commonwealth has gone on record directly accusing the president of the HRC of political bias in the performance of her statutory duties. It would be no less incendiary if he alleged that the Chief Justice of the High Court or the Chief Commissioner of the Federal Police was corrupt.

That's the territory we're in. It's a declaration of war. And it's wrong, very badly wrong."

"We clothe certain positions with independence and statutory protection from interference, because of their importance to our system of checks and balances. The Human Rights Commissioners are included in this, because they need to have the freedom to say things the government of the day doesn't want to hear. Indeed, in relation to the issue of children in detention, the HRC is saying what almost nobody in Federal Parliament, and much of the community, wants to hear."

But tell me Hasbeen, otb and whoever...answer my previous question.

WHY? - if Triggs was such a problem and the govt was so unhappy with her performance - did Brandis offer to move her sideways? Why offer her another "senior role" working for the govt?

It stinks to high heaven, and you know it does.

What else is interesting of late on the forum is the number of righties who appear happy to jettison the rule of law and statutory obligations - the foundations of our democracy.
Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 10:23:40 AM
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Poirot,

You are flummoxed by one of the most usual personnel performance problems handled by HR managers?

Horses for courses or courses for horses? In this case she is ill-suited to her present role and she ought be redeployed to where her legal skills could be put to use, under direction.

She may not very self-aware nor proactive, or else she would have been seeking mobility elsewhere.
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 10:37:54 AM
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Abbott is a democratic and policy free zone, that is where his failings start from. Never before in the history of au has there been such a backward person in the position of PM.

The Abbott and Credlin team roll on, for how long can they put up with such an unsustainable and cowardly govt;. Lies on top of lies, and lies to cover up lies. All of the political donators must be amazed at this performance, certainly not what they were putting their money toward.

Abbott had 50 billion worth of savings identified as the lies went. That turned out to be another lie.

Abbott’s greatest achievement for 2014 was backing out the carbon tax, that cost 6 billion on the deficit. Truly remarkable.
Posted by 579, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 10:47:02 AM
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otb,

That comment is about as pathetic as they come regarding alleged attempted interference in a statutory body.

Brandis is NOT a HR manager - the AHRC is not answerable to him in any way, shape or form.

Any interference by the first law officer on a statutory body corrupts our democratic conventions.

(Although, I understand that the righties here would be in favour of that if it suits their partisan causes)
Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 10:48:15 AM
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ConservativeHippie,

If we took your perspective the current (Liberal) government would "resign" (when Labor was last in office - or even now) because the Liberal Party, "opposed" 2000 children being kept in detention? Not.

Labor at present is simply causing trouble for the present Liberal Government, taking the same line on policy (to cause trouble) as the previous Liberal party did. The Liberals are now having to take a bite out of the mouldy sandwich, called "Parliament House".

People forget detention centre policy was introduced under (Paul Keating). So many "left wing socialists" did go into silent mode, when Labor was (last) in office, not liking Liberal party policies in general.

Those who tried to voice a concern (on refugees) - it was difficult.

With John Howard, many came back out again on the streets in protest. Both major political parties have now said they will be "staying put" on refugee policy. Julia Gillard had stupid policies on refugees and said we were sending refugees back to Afghanistan: "because it was a safer country." This was stupid, because we don't have troops there on a holiday, they have been there because the country is unsafe.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/julia-gillard-to-send-back-boatpeople/story-e6freon6-1225887832710

The story notes that 10 ethnic Hazaras were beheaded in Afghanistan the day Julia Gillard became Prime Minister.

For one person to resign (is an easy scapegoat approach). Change is needed across the board and if it doesn't occur - Refugees will be either left to rot (like a politicians left over dinner) or kicked around like a political football.
Posted by NathanJ, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 10:58:48 AM
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@579

another royal commission?
australia is poor enough
suggest we skip this and start working hard
time australians wake up to the fact we are already passe on the world stage and we still talk about sending troops here...criticizing on a third country somewhere out there....

i can see in this forum a group of govt bashers
some are nice while the others are not
you and foxy are ok...

the others tend to make lengthy 'wise and thoughtful' speeches
Posted by platypus1900, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 11:25:25 AM
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Here's a few thoughts from link I cited earlier in which -
Prof. Ben Saul, Professor of International Law at the
University of Sydney, and a barrister, points out - that
the report is -
"grounded in the government's own statistics, the expertise
of qualified child and health care professionals, inspections
of detention centres, and interviews and testimonies of
children and others." It is based on facts.

Therefore - "President Gillian Triggs should not resign.
She has done her job. She is an international lawyer of
global standing. She has faithfully applied the law.
Like most international lawyers, Triggs is not radical.
International law is after all, made by governments.
Triggs was Dean of this country's oldest law school -
hardly a hotbed of revolution..."

If anyone should be seriously questioning their judgement
and position - we are told that - "it is the Attorney
General - by pressuring Triggs to resign, on grounds not
recognised in the Commission's statute. Senator Brandis sought
to improperly interfere with the tenure of an independent
statutory office holder."

We are told that "on the week-end the Australian Bar
Association, and the Law Council of Australia, took the rare
step of issuing a joint statement to condemn the
"unprecedented attack" on Triggs."

"Representing all Australian lawyers and barristers, those two
peak bodies - hardly anti-Coalition - declared that" -

"Personal criticism directed at her or any judicial or quasi-
judicial officer fulfilling the duties of public office as
required by law is an attack upon the independence and
integrity of the Commission and undermines confidence in our
system of justice and human rights protection."

Prof. Saul then asks -
"How should a mature, child-friendly government
have responded to the report? By facing the music, owning up
to the damage wrought on innocent children, and making
it right."

Instead, we're told that -
the government trivialised child abuse, and was
pathologically hostile towards a Commission that merely
sought to make children save.
The finally question arrived at seems to be -
"whether such a government
is really fit to govern our country?"
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 11:28:07 AM
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Fox,

You are always putting the cart before the horse. It is the actions of the head of the Human Rights Commission that have affected the "independence and integrity of the Commission and undermines confidence in our system of justice and human rights protection."

The AHR is one of those quasi judicial entities that are the bane of modern politics. Its President is unelected and is not directly responsible to the Parliament as are the Ministers and mainstream departments.

There has been a proliferation since Whitlam of quasi-judicial and administrative tribunals along with all sorts of other qangos. Their existence often reflects government unwillingness to bite the bullet on issue/s and at times, political idealism. One wonders what problems cannot be entrusted to departments where there is an array of skills and resources available.

Some have played an reasonably worthwhile role at some time. All ought be reviewed ASAP. -Particularly in view of the claims from both sides of politics that there is scant room in the Budget for the most pressing services.

If the Parliament cannot be its own watch-dog, why have it? Better still, why have all of those well-paid senators polishing seat leather when they could be making a contribution to Australia for their pay and benefits?
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 12:04:30 PM
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I'm not sure why Ms TRIGG should go personally ? She does seem to be of the 'left' as inherent in many of her opinions ? However she's a well credentialed jurist which such a position requires. Moreover she has been appointed for a term of five years, as such, short of any malfeasance, she should be permitted to serve out her tenure.

It's not unlike other government appointments; the Governor General, or a High Court Justice, even police commissioners, as examples, they're appointed, for better or worse. They'll occasionally make statements, the government of the day doesn't agree with, still they must be allowed to express an opinion, therefore they should be encouraged to discharge their duties, and be permitted to get on with it, without any political interference ?
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 12:22:48 PM
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Tony Abbott also denied there had been any wrongdoing, saying on Wednesday that Professor Triggs "was not asked to resign and no inducement has been offered".

"It's obvious that Peta Credlin is being used as a scapegoat for the failures of Tony Abbott's boys' club," Senator Hanson-Young said.
"The sexist behaviour of Coalition senators yesterday made them look like Neanderthals."

Ms Credlin's position has been under further scrutiny this week after an explosive leak from inside the Liberal Party headquarters. The party's honorary treasurer, Phil Higginson, said it was not a sustainable situation to have the federal director Brian Loughnane, who runs the party's administrative wing, married to Ms Credlin, who runs the government's political arm.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott faced a "cavalcade of complaints" in Tuesday's Liberal party room meeting, including repeated questioning from WA MP Don Randall about why former chief government whip Philip Ruddock was axed.

Mr Abbott was also confronted by South Australian MPs Andrew Southcott and Rowan Ramsey about the future submarine project, with Mr Ramsey warning the Prime Minister he would be breaking an election promise "if the hulls aren't welded" in South Australia.
And Liberal MPs Craig Laundy and Andrew Laming raised concerns about the attack on the Human Rights Commission President Gillian Triggs and the issue of children in detention.

Treasurer Joe Hockey also briefed MPs that a discussion paper on foreign investment would be released shortly for public consultation.
Muslim community leaders have voiced their anger at Prime Minister Tony Abbott over his national security speech on Monday, saying it did nothing but inflame tensions and belittle the efforts of Muslims leaders working to decrease community antagonism.

The Lebanese Muslim Association condemned the "aggressive rhetoric against Muslims" employed by Mr Abbott on Monday, labelling it "politically opportunistic" and unnecessary
Posted by 579, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 12:42:59 PM
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It is interesting to read the various opinions on
this subject. However, according to Prof. Ben
Saul, Professor of International Law
at the University of Sydney and a barrister -

"The governments' responsibility is not a reasonable
and civilised disagreement about law and fact."

"It is an indefensible political attack on the
independence and integrity of a Commission doing
its job. Namely calling out governments for
breaching objective human rights law standards."

"The Commission did not politically target the Abbott
Government. The Commission calls out both the Coalition and
Labor Governments and acknowledges improvements under
the Coalition."

Questions were raised about the timing of the Commission's
inquiry. We are told that "The Commission has fully
explained the timing of its inquiry, driven by the longer
periods of detention under the Coalition, the need for
a break after finishing another inquiry, and the 10 year
anniversary of its 2004 report."

The explanation is also given that "the report is not dated
or historical. As long as a single child remains illegally
detained the report is current. In fact, there are
about 300 children in detention."

We're told that "as importantly - the report's findings
are current for the thousands of children that were
previously detained, since the psychological legacy
of protracted detention lasts for years. These children
need help too."

Finally, according to experts in International Law, like
Prof. Ben Saul - "the Commission's assessment of the
law is correct. Under Human Rights Law, children must
not normally be detained and detention must be a last
resort - only when alternatives are unavailable."

"Detention must last for the shortest possible time, meaning
days or weeks, not months or years. The best interests of a
child must always be paramount."

"Collaterally detaining innocent children for long periods to
either punish or dissuade their parents, or to deter
speculative future arrivals is illegal and wrong."

"The former Immigration Minister Scott Morrison should
not be congratulated for this as the PM suggests."
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 1:09:03 PM
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It is a proven fact that "detaining children has never
been necessary to stop the boats. A point demonstrated
conclusively by the fact that boats continued to arrive
even when detention was bipartisan policy for two decades.
We must instead look to other factors - like naval
interdiction - to explain why the boats have slowed or
stopped now."

As stated earlier "if anyone should be seriously questioning
their judgement and position - it is the Attorney-General.
By pressuring Prof. Triggs to resign on grounds not recognised
in the Commission's statute Senator Brandis sought to
improperly interfere with the tenure of an Independent
Statutory Office Holder."

That is simply wrong.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 1:29:10 PM
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Lol!...the govt and Foreign Minister now denying in question time that an alterantive job was offered to Triggs.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/feb/24/liberals-senate-estimates-gillian-triggs-human-rights-commission

Here's what Brandis's underling, the Seecretary of the Dept, said of his conversation with Triggs:

"Later in the committee hearing Moraitis offered a slightly different account. He said he had, at Brandis’s request, told Triggs she had lost the confidence of the government, and of Brandis himself. He denied he had used the word resignation, but he agreed he had offered her another, specific “senior legal role” and that accepting that role would have meant she would have had to leave the human rights commission, that “one would follow from the other”."

Again....

"....but he agreed he had offered her another, specific “senior legal role”..."

I believe Moraitis

This government "never stops" lying.
Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 1:43:14 PM
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Fox,

More like Xerox with those looooong cut'n'pastes. LOL

The Human Rights Commission, formerly the highly political Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission, a Labor creation, has swung from the taxpayers' teat for longer than many taxpaying workers have been alive.

If it hasn't achieved its purposes or at least any purposes that were realistic to achieve, why the hell does it still exist?

The AHR is one of those quasi judicial entities that are the bane of modern politics. Its President is unelected and is not directly responsible to the Parliament as are the Ministers and mainstream departments.

Some here laud the HRC for its independence, as if that is an end goal in itself, but the opposite is true and the public have a right to demand full accountability and savings too.
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 1:52:21 PM
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And Liberal MPs Craig Laundy and Andrew Laming raised concerns about the attack on the Human Rights Commission President Gillian Triggs and the issue of children in detention.

What an outright liar, this PM has no regard for anyone or anything. Saying that no offer was made and no resignation was inquired about.
Just yesterday it was evidence and today it does not exist.
Our esteemed PM is a disgrace, and can not stay PM. The man is a bare faced liar
Posted by 579, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 2:32:17 PM
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Foxy,

Never mind otb...he apparently doesn't give a hoot regarding the independence of statutory bodies - when they get in the way of his partisanship.

It's all very simple really...this govt attempted some dodgy shenanigans - and it's blown up in their face.

Matches perfectly with their near perfect record of ineptitude.

When was "good government" supposed to begin?...we're still waiting.
Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 2:39:54 PM
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Question? Why do we have a whole department presiding over the welfare report of 200 children in detention with parents; when we already have a department concerned with the welfare of children?
Posted by Josephus, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 2:42:51 PM
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I would say our own dept; does not have authority to investigate things that are kept secret.
Posted by 579, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 2:55:59 PM
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Dear Poirot,

Articles in our major newspapers, and opinion polls - all
agree that the "overblown attack on Prof. Gillian
Triggs leaves a messy egg on Attorney General
George Brandis' face."

The problem for the PM and his government,
including for the Attorney-General, is that Prof.
Triggs is innocent of all the charges and has refused
to buckle under hours of interrogation in the Senate
committee room on Tuesday.

It's odd. The charge these poor pathetic creatures have
come up with is not that Prof. Triggs engaged in any
misconduct but rather they accuse her of
leading the Commission in a "partisan" manner - by
embarking on an inquiry into children in immigration
detention, when this problem peaked under the Labor
government.

Prof. Triggs has made it quite clear that the inquiry was
not partisan. That it was an inquiry about the impact of
immigration detention on children as a whole -
both under the Labor Government and under this one.
It was not partisan.

The consistencies in Prof. Triggs previous terimony had
been clarified in correspondence to the Committee.

Also, to the suggestion that Prof. Triggs confided in either
Brandis' Deptartment Head or in her Human Rights Commissioners
that she was resigning - was an emphatic - It wasn't true!

All of this, combined with her determination to continue to
perform her role to the best of her ability has left our
"it's all right to be a bigot" Attorney-General Brandis with
but one conclusion -

"I don't know where we go from here," he said.

I would be happy to suggest a few places for both him and
the PM.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 3:39:33 PM
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the sisterhood supporting the sisterhood leftist activist but pooping on Credlin. How predictable.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 3:44:57 PM
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Dear runner,

Wrong again - nobody is "poopin" on anybody.
Except perhaps - yourself - on the "sisterhood" you
consistently keep bringing up in sheer desperation.

The current mess the PM, his government,
and his Attorney-General are in - is all
of their own making. They have nobody to blame
but themselves for that. And the newspapers and polls
are having a field day as a result.

The murmurs within his own backbench - is getting
louder and louder!
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 4:02:58 PM
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Oh Foxy you and your luvvies. If the Human Rights Commission had an ounce of decency they would put an end or at least protest the slaugher of tens of thousands of unborn children. No like, Trigg they are blinded by their own bias and make up lies like Trigg did in seeing guns at detention centres. As someone who supported the Rudd/Gillard farce you obviously have no shame and your tribalism triumps over any principle.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 4:29:24 PM
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I have this sense FOXY you have this perverse delight in seeing anything bad happening to the LNP ? You're never one to see any good in anyone involved in conservative politics. You project this image of the learned 'disciple of authenticity' senior Librarian only interested in disseminating the facts, or is it a case that you tweak the facts to set your own brand of 'leftist' agenda ? I've been awfully slow at recognising the myth you seek to perpetuate - all the while thinking, '...why do some contributors keep attacking poor FOXY...', where all along you manipulate your own brand of dogma and belief systems. That aside, I'll always respect you enormously, but for my own intellectual survival herein, I must be more cautious whenever we seek to engag
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 5:25:52 PM
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If nothing else this (non) debate highlights a conflict between the ideals of civil rights and religious doctrine of human rights and more broadly the conflict between the current status quo and explicit secularism, we have freedom of religion in spades, we don't yet have freedom from religion as evidenced by the HREOC report.
This level of redaction and reliance on unsubstantiated, anonymous testimony is typical of political propaganda:
http://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/asylum-seekers-and-refugees/national-inquiry-children-immigration-detention-2014-0
Look at the list of submissions, they're in a narrow range from stakeholders in the refugee industry such as the churches and refugee advocates, providers of health services to the disadvantaged to your usual open borders nuts. It is a biased report full of falsehoods, rumour and innuendo (particularly the risible "expert" testimony)but as usual the less than intelligent attorney general and his similarly intellectually challenged boss are approaching this in the only way they know how, the wrong way.
The coalition have to choose between civil rights and human rights, the two ideals are in direct opposition to one another, you can't assert inalienable human rights of one group without trampling the civil rights of another.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 5:31:39 PM
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Dear O Sung Wu,

This is a public forum. You are at liberty to
draw whatever conclusions you choose to make
about me or anyone else.
I stand by my posting record.
People can judge me on that.

If you do not want to inter-act with me - that
is your choice entirely.
Difficult as it may
be, it is something I dare say I will have to
learn to live with.

Dear runner,

You really need to do a bit more research into
laws regarding abortion before you make
sweeping statements. A woman's ability to access
safe and legal abortions is restricted in law or
in practice in most countries of the world.

Prof. Triggs does not care to correct the lies
about guns and other things that have been falsely
written about her.

As for your accusations about my political inclinations?
You are in no credible position to make any statements
on that subject.

Cheers.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 6:23:34 PM
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Again FOXY you cleverly distort material to avoid confronting the truth ? Prof TRIGG 'did' claim refugees were being guarded by security staff bearing Firearms ? I heard her statement myself. Therefore it is definitely not a lie as you claim. Though in my opinion it's no big deal whether or not security staff at detention centres are armed. However they are not for the purposes of this argument. By the way, I was one who didn't believe Prof TRIGG should be dismissed nor resign.
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 6:50:34 PM
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Dear O Sung Wu,

Here is another link that may be of interest:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-24/bradley-brandis-or-triggs-must-go-and-it-shouldnt-be-her/6251370

Cheers.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 7:22:49 PM
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Hi (again) FOXY...

Thank you for the link you kindly furnished, and I did read it and read it carefully. What is the point of you sending it to me, it's hardly germane to the point we discussing herein ? I would probably agree with 98% of everything in the article, notwithstanding it was from a very biased ABC ? Is it your intent to obfuscate my assertion by attempting to cloud the discussion with yet another vague link ?

My point was, and still is FOXY, Prof TRIGG erroneously stated staff at Detention Centres carry guns. You stated that was another lie alleged for the purpose of discrediting her ?

Your words '...Prof TRIGG does not choose to correct lies about guns and other things that have been falsely written about her...' ?

As I stated in my previous thread, I heard the interview myself where Prof TRIGG claimed security staff carried guns at Detention Centres ? Come on FOXY, you claim I don't possess facts, why are you so strongly defending the indefensible ?
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 7:58:51 PM
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O'sung,
A lot of the testimony of the experts is bollocks and relates basic whinging about minor inconveniences experienced by refugees.
"My son is covered in bruises from banging his shins on the furniture in our room"
"My son can't draw a picture of himself because our mirror is mounted too high on the wall"
"We're scared of the crabs and centipedes"
"We only get one piece of fresh fruit a day each and it's always apples...err, except sometimes we get watermelon and peaches".
"We can only get 4-5 days supply of nappies and baby products at a time".
"The phosphorous in the air is giving us all asthma".(to their credit the "experts" discount this as a rumour)

It's understandable that rumours about maltreatment of others are taken as fact by the refugees, even though they themselves haven't experienced any physical coercion or brutality from staff they've heard about it on the grapevine and it's manna for the left wing gutter press, as the saying goes "When legend becomes fact, print the legend".
I realise it's illegal to identify an illegal migrant in detention but given that HREOC is not a trustworthy organisation, that it's tainted by misinformation and associations to "Anti Racists" and that the stakeholders such as the churches and service providers have an obvious conflict of interest these anonymous witness testimonies have to be taken with a grain of salt.
I've delved into the report in the last few hours and as with all religious Human Rights propaganda it require suspension of disbelief to fully buy into what they're selling, to a rational mind it doesn't fit the world as we know it.
The detention centres are like medium security prisons, prison isn't nice, prison guards are often not nice, prison food is horrible and you don't get a say in what you do and when you do it. There's a simple solution if illegal migrants aren't happy, go back to where you came from.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 8:49:29 PM
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o sung wu,
I have a friend who subs to the feds (ex copper too). He runs a (security) team on hire to the Govt and he is in and out of all thesen centers.
All his men and women are trained in self defense to the highest order and yes they are armed with the standard Glock 22 40cal.
As far a Triggs is concerned she should go and they should close down the HR commission.
They are nothing more than a hindrance in the governance of this country.
Posted by chrisgaff1000, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 9:16:14 PM
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Dear O Sung Wu,

Since I began writing for this forum I have tried
to present facts and information to the best of
my ability. I don't always get it right. Who does.
However there have been so many lies abot Prof.
Gillian Triggs I certainly don't want to add to
them. As you pointed out- "It's no big deal whether
or not security staff at detention centres are armed..."
It actually is a big deal - and adds to the horror
that children would winess and experience. The following
proves this point:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-24/armed-locals-let-into-manus-island-detention-centre-witness/5281012

Dear Jay,

You need to broaden your information about what
children really experience in our detention centres:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-13/elliott-forgotten-children-i-was-shocked-by-what-i-saw/6092912
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 9:36:27 PM
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FOXY, thank you for the link, again there is absolutely no mention of the carriage of firearms ? The night's late, and am I'm tired !
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 9:59:12 PM
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You say Foxy "As you pointed out- "It's no big deal whether
or not security staff at detention centres are armed..."
It actually is a big deal - and adds to the horror
that children would witness and experience."

Does this mean that children who see a policeman in this country with a side arm in its holster are also terrified? If you think that then you are in la la land. Children see a policeman, policeman carry guns, the end. Children easily adapt to the situation they are in especially if they are with their parents, well fed and in no immediate threat of harm which they are not in these detention centres; the children will not be questioning whether or not the guards are armed unless their mother is neurotically pointing it out as a concern.

All this is a beat up and deflection from the fact Gillian Triggs, you, the Poirots et al, the Labor Party, the Greens, and the ABC cannot support anything this government tries to do.

Gillian Triggs timing was politically motivated, full stop. Her position is untenable and its only fair she resign. Untenable does not mean incompetent. The government was generous to offer her an alternative position.
Posted by ConservativeHippie, Thursday, 26 February 2015 7:04:10 AM
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Foxy, do you think Gillian Triggs would still have a job if she released her report prior to the election, against the request of the Labor Government, when 2000 children were in detention?
Posted by ConservativeHippie, Thursday, 26 February 2015 7:10:28 AM
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Fox,

We are being told a very different story to the one-sided view of 'poor victimised Triggsie' that you and the leftists would have us accept. Here, from the 'MSM' that you and other leftist 'Progressives' have quoted from as reliable before,

"Gillian Triggs: Set on a course of self-martyrdom
February 26, 2015
Dr Gillian Triggs has damaged the Australian Human Rights Commission's reputation for impartiality.

Late in the afternoon of February 11, a woman walked into one of the two Fairfax newsrooms in Parliament House Canberra, placed a document on the desk of a reporter, and proceeded to tell the reporter the highlights of a story she should write.

I noticed the visitor because she had such a proprietary attitude. She turned out to be Senator Sarah Hanson-Young of the Greens. The document she had delivered was a report by the Australian Human Rights Commission, 'The Forgotten Children: National Inquiry into Children in Immigration Detention 2014'.

Indeed, let us not forget the children. Under the previous Labor governments there were 2000 children in detention. It was a policy debacle and a national disgrace.

The president of the commission, Dr Gillian Triggs, is to be commended for her concern for these blighted children. However, she has undermined her own concerns that the commission be perceived as rigorously impartial.

Her responses under questioning by Senators have been confusing. Her judgement has been sometimes poor. Her relationship with the government has become a combat zone.

In response to numerous missteps Dr Triggs has set on a course of self-martyrdom. This itself is incendiary to the impartiality of the Human Rights Commission.

When thousands of children were in detention, there was no national inquiry by the commission. Yet after the Coalition government quickly and effectively shut down the people smuggling trade, closed a dozen detention centres, and the number of children in detention plunged by 80 per cent in its first year, Dr Triggs moved with haste to attach blame to the government.
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 26 February 2015 7:10:30 AM
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contd.

"She signed off on a report whose very title is incendiary, inaccurate, and seeks to blame the very government which staunched the wound. Far from being forgotten, not a single child was placed in detention by the Coalition government. Most were removed from custody.

When asked about the belated timing of the inquiry, she has given five different reasons at various times.

Dr Triggs told this week's Senate inquiry that about 700 children had been removed from detention under the Coalition and about 330 remained in detention. This wildly understated the government's progress. More than twice as many children as claimed, 1482, have been removed from detention, and 242 are awaiting placement in community care.

She expressed hope her inquiry may have sped up the process, implying that it did. The government's election promise was always to have zero boats and zero children in detention as soon as possible.Dr Triggs claims to have been pressured to resign by the government and was "shocked" and "appalled" by this. Again, her claim is both incendiary and does not withstand scrutiny. It was Dr Triggs who contacted the Secretary of the Attorney-General's Department, Chris Moraitis, to set up a meeting to discuss where she stood with the government in the wake of sustained public criticism of her performance.

She was told the truth. The government had lost confidence in her. She saw this response as pressure to resign, which she said was "shocking". The same could be said of Dr Triggs' conduct on this matter.

She was never asked to resign. Both the Attorney-General, Senator George Brandis, and the head of his department, flatly denied ever asking for her resignation. In her testimony to the Senate inquiry on Tuesday, it emerged she had inferred this meaning out of comments made in a meeting that she herself had requested."

tbc
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 26 February 2015 7:12:09 AM
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contd.

"The government's confidence in her judgement started eroding a long time ago. Late last year, she claimed the detention centre on Christmas Island was patrolled by armed guards. This was not true and was one of several inflammatory observations that did not withstand scrutiny.

Last year, Dr Triggs recommended that John Basikbasik, who entered the country illegally in 1985, later murdered his pregnant partner, and was involved in a revolving door of violent incidents, be removed from detention and paid $350,000 in compensation for his long-term incarceration. The government rejected her recommendation.

She also recommended that a serial criminal be paid $300,000 in compensation for being detained while engaging in legal action to prevent deportation, even though a Federal Court had found these actions to be "frivolous, vexatious and embarrassing". The government rejected her recommendation.

Now, under Dr Triggs, the commission has moved to attach blame for the mental cruelties imposed on children in detention to the government which did not create the problem and has largely solved it.

This is not a first for the commission. It is a divisive bureaucracy which spends $25 million a year on its permanent quest for relevance in a country with an abundance of human rights protections."

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/gillian-triggs-set-on-a-course-of-selfmartyrdom-20150225-13oook.html

'Poor victim Triggsie' as you and the leftists would have her seems to have form for some lack-lustre decisions.
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 26 February 2015 7:20:24 AM
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One thing you don’t mention that the report was not due until the end of the year. The previous report was 2004 The next report was due 10 years later.
Abbott’s actions are that of a pig, and can only go against his govt;
Posted by 579, Thursday, 26 February 2015 8:00:24 AM
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Since we seem to be having a copy and paste jamboree, I'll see otb's article from SMH and raise him this one from The Age...

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-age-editorial/the-attack-on-triggs-is-an-abbott-stitchup-20150225-13ogxw.html

"The attack on Triggs is an Abbott stitch-up"

"Australia is witnessing a political stitch-up of extraordinary proportions. Not by Professor Gillian Triggs and the Human Rights Commission, as the Prime Minister might wail and cry. No, it is clear what is going on. The Abbott government is cynically moving to de-legitimise certain institutions that perform vital roles in the democratic life of this nation.

Its attack on the president of the Human Rights Commission is designed to enfeeble the statutory institution that is vested with the important task of observing and critiquing how Australian governments and institutions abide by the international laws of human rights, laws that this nation proudly helped to formulate and which we demand other countries uphold.

It has been a brutal exhibition of Machiavellian manoeuvrings – by the Prime Minister from the floor of Parliament, by the sleazy antics of the Attorney-General in trying to force Professor Triggs' resignation, and through the brazenly partisan conduct of Coalition senators on the legal and constitutional affairs committee. But this government's morally bankrupt and desperately misguided effort to manipulate public opinion against the commission will prove to be an own-goal.

The unpopular Abbott government is apparently so threatened by the findings of a report into children in immigration detention – a report that delivers strong criticism of both the Coalition and its Labor predecessors – that it seeks to render impotent an independent, vocal monitor. It seeks to sow doubt about the commission's credibility, so it strikes at the top."
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 26 February 2015 8:20:46 AM
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Cont'd

"The government says it has lost confidence in Professor Triggs. It claims she demonstrated political bias by initiating an inquiry into children in detention only after the Coalition came to power in late 2013. It argues the commission should have been concerned about children being locked up under the Rudd and Gillard governments, when numbers in detention soared. Attorney-General George Brandis embellishes this by saying Professor Triggs committed a "catastrophic error of judgment". He says there was "a near-universal view" within the Coalition by Christmas that her position had become untenable, mainly because of what he called her "inconsistent and evasive" responses before the Senate committee in November.

The government's complaints are concocted nonsense. In any other context, such slippages would be excused once clarified. This government, though, whips them into a conspiracy of mock-horror proportions then tries to induce her to quit. All the while, the commission's report is shoved aside. Indeed, the chairman of the Senate committee, Liberal Senator Ian Macdonald, contemptuously declared he has not, and will not, read the report – an appalling abrogation of his responsibilities.

Rarely has a federal government engaged in such a vicious, politicised campaign to demolish the integrity and professionalism of a statutory officer. The Prime Minister's enthusiastic participation in this tawdry episode greatly diminishes the standing of his office.

Senator Brandis says he wants the Human Rights Commission to focus on "projects that actually mean something to the mainstream of Australian people [and] will make a material difference to their lives". His proposal highlights how fundamentally out of touch this government is with issues of human rights, because it is not mainstream Australians who are at risk. It is those at the margins who cannot speak for themselves, the young and disadvantaged, minorities and non-Australians (such as asylum seekers), who most need their human rights secured.

The internationally respected Human Rights Commission provides a level of protection for these people. Its vital work must be allowed to proceed unimpeded by interference or intimidation from a cynical and desperate government."
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 26 February 2015 8:23:01 AM
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On 3 February 2014 the President of the Commission, Professor Gillian Triggs, launched an inquiry into children in closed immigration detention. The purpose of this inquiry is to investigate the ways in which life in immigration detention affects the health, well-being and development of children. The inquiry will assess the impact on children by seeking the views of people who were previously detained as children in closed immigration detention and by assessing the current circumstances and responses of children to immigration detention.

The inquiry will investigate what has changed in the ten years since the Commission released A last resort? the report of the National Inquiry into Children in Immigration Detention in 2004. For more information about the current inquiry, see the inquiry Discussion Paper
Posted by 579, Thursday, 26 February 2015 8:32:46 AM
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Just taking one of Triggs' decisions as an example, this would have been immediately fatal to the employment and career for a man,

"Last year, Dr Triggs recommended that John Basikbasik, who entered the country illegally in 1985, later murdered his pregnant partner, and was involved in a revolving door of violent incidents, be removed from detention and paid $350,000 in compensation for his long-term incarceration." [Quite rightly, the government rejected it]

Imagine the leftist screams if Tony Abbott had made such a recommendation.
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 26 February 2015 8:56:26 AM
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o sung wu,
I used to think that Foxy was a nice lady but naïve, however I have reassessed and find her to be a person who has no hesitation in putting forward untruths as facts to support leftist argument.

For example. Foxy wrote the following claiming these to be 'facts' that Australia was a racist country.

"People who are in denial about racism in this country are simply ignorant. Lets look at the facts - we imprison
brown asylum seekers, we once celebrated our national day
with a white racist riot. There were assaults on Indian
students, a little political organisation called
One Nation, and of course "the intervention" - the heraldic
beak on our long hawkish treatment of Indigenous Australians".
Posted by Foxy, OLO 18-4-2014

It is a concern how these nasty and vacuous
rumours get started and by whom.?
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 24 April 2014 11:27

How hypocritical is this. Foxy wonders how these nasty and vacuous rumours get started and by whom. Some need to look in a mirror
Posted by Banjo, Thursday, 26 February 2015 9:01:51 AM
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Lol!

Here we go - echoes of Abbott and his govt's style when dealing with women of the opposite political persuasion.

Jettison the subject matter and attack/critique the person you're debating.

BTW(and off topic) but just briefly -

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-26/peter-slipper-wins-cabcharge-taxi-conviction-appeal/6262018

Peter Slipper Cabcharge case: Former speaker wins appeal against dishonesty charges
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 26 February 2015 9:09:41 AM
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i just watch RN Breakfast where Fran Kelly interviewed the Treasurer

know what?
when i see the way she reasoned and the way she interviewed, she sounded so scarily like poirot
hats off to hockey...he is so patient..he knew Fran was just trying to win viewership on the media

again i say, GT should kneel and say her prayer of contrition for being so hypocritical
she will consult ALP when they were in govt ... not good publicity to investigate on children in dc.... but had no qualms when LNP are in power

i wonder why we are still at this
is there an australian elephant in this forum ?
Posted by platypus1900, Thursday, 26 February 2015 9:58:18 AM
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Dear Poirot,

I can't do much about the personal attacks.
I could answer them point by point but that would
just divert this discussion.

Instead, for a bit of light relief I suggest you
Google the article on Independent Media -
"The Lioness versus the weasel." (Warning -
the language is rather strong), but obviously
so are the author's feelings. Look it up.

Now back to the topic.

Hugh de Kretser has written an excellent article
in The Age telling us to "Forget that the Human Rights
Commission was doing its jobe by investigating and
reporting on an important human rights issue in
Australia. Forget that the Commission was even-handed
in its criticism over the handling of the issue.
Forget that on the international stage Australia is
leading the charge to tell other nations to respect
the independence of their national human rights
institutions."

Kretser points out that "this is a calculated political
attack designed to undermine our independent national
human rights watchdog."

What makes it worse according to Kretser is that these
attacks are part of a broader trend.

He states - "Checks and balances - such as independent
statutory watchdogs, our independent court system,
our rule of law, press freedom, and the ability of
non-government organisations to speak freely are vital to
our democracy and for protecting human rights -
particularly in the absence of a constitutional or
legislative Bill of Rights."

Kretser emphasizes that since taking office the government
has actively undermined these protections.

And that should be of concern to us all.

There's more on the following site:

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/attacks-on-our-human-rights-commission-are-part-of-a-broader-disturbing-trend-20150225-13o6e8.html
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 26 February 2015 11:46:46 AM
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Actually I think the Libs were clever this time.
If they had not jumpted on Prof Triggs and made that the issue then
the left would have been screaming at the present government for its
treatment of 2000 children.
Now they are flat out defending Mrs Triggs.

Of course it is not just done to attack women in politics.
I mean the poor dears cannot take it can they, but they sure can dish it out !
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 26 February 2015 12:14:22 PM
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For starters, I don't imagine that the Australian public welcomes external agencies such as the UN presuming to comment and interfere in domestic politics. That is NOT the UN's role and would be angrily rejected out of hand by other member States. Why the UN thinks it is free to do that in Australia's case is anybody's guess. Whoever gave it that impression and why?

Apart from that, Paul Kelly is right to observe in respect of Australia's HRC,

"This is not a first for the commission. It is a divisive bureaucracy which spends $25 million a year on its permanent quest for relevance in a country with an abundance of human rights protections."

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/gillian-triggs-set-on-a-course-of-selfmartyrdom-20150225-13oook.html

Frankly, where there are elderly people are being forced to live in caravan parks - where their future is not guaranteed - it is a bit much that government spills the odd $25 million a year on a very well off quasi-legal elite trying to justify their own jobs.

All departmental heads should be required to review the need for quangos associated with their agencies and provide reasons why the tasks if they need to be performed at all, should not be done by the department itself.
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 26 February 2015 1:06:32 PM
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@otb

yes, we need less of these UN orgn meddling with our domestic affairs

and in the same breathe, let's not interfere with other nation's domestic affairs... remember , it is our joint action with bigbrother when we threw saddam out and in return we got IS...and now we are telling the indons their laws are barbaric

on our aged in caravan parks, i have always wanted to start a thread on this...coming up next

thks
Posted by platypus1900, Thursday, 26 February 2015 1:37:52 PM
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The following site may help clarify the question
about the United Nations and Australia:

http://www.dfat.gov.au/international-relations/international-organisations/un/pages/united-nations-un.aspx

It's from our Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
and explains things for those unfamiliar with this
country's history and involvement with the UN.

The inaction in response to the Rwanda Genocide in 1994
and the failure to halt the 1995 Screbrenica massacre in
Bosnis highlight the complexities of international
responses to crimes against humanity.

What we need to do is perhaps re-frame the issue not
as an argument about the "right to intervene" but make
it about the "responsibility to protect."

Especially concerning the rights of children in immigration
detention.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 26 February 2015 2:29:19 PM
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Hi there BANJO...

I'm sorry for my delay in replying to you, I had a bit of minor surgery on my head this morning, now the anaesthesia has worn off, I've got this thumping headache.

BANJO I'm sure she's still a very lovely person, but as her epithet implies, a very shrewd, cunning and guileful lady indeed ? And not one to pass-up any opportunity to employ her 'lady like' wiliness to advance her argument if necessary ? Occasionally resorting to subterfuge by drawing upon mountains of 'researched' links in order to reinforce her position. The only difficulty I have with this strategy, many of her citations, extracts or allusion are from Sites predominately of the 'Left' ?

Still my friend, this Forum is just a platform or venue, for all of us to voice our opinions and have a good whinge ? Goodness me, neither my wife or extended family will listen to me ! Many of them just end up saying, '...don't worry darling, grandpa is just complaining about something or other...' ?

All of us have our hearts in the right place, and if 'push came to shove' we're Aussies everyone of us, and very protective of that precious appellation, at the end of the day !
Posted by o sung wu, Thursday, 26 February 2015 2:37:52 PM
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Dear O Sung Wu,

Bless your heart.

That's the O Sung Wu - I thought I knew.

BTW: - your remark that I don't say anything positive
about "conservatives" is not quite accurate.

You seem to have forgotten the numerous times that I have
quoted from "The Costello Memoirs." The admiration that I
have expressed for Peter Costello, Peter Coleman, Malcolm
Turnbull (I even started a discussion on Turnbull's
suitability as leader), Kelly O'Dwyer, Josh Frydenberg,
John Hewson, Malcolm Fraser, and of course Sir Robert Menzies.

I've voted Liberal for many,many, years, including at the State
level recently. I come from a family of strictly Liberal
supporters. I found our State Liberal MP excellent - and
I liked Dennis Napthine very much. I started a very positive
discussion on Margaret Thatcher's achievements - and the list
goes on.

What I have been critical of have been the later tactics of our
former PM John Howard. The tactics of our current PM while
in Opposition, and certainly his tactics and those of his
government at present.

However, if you look at the opinion polls - you'd realise
that I am not alone in being disgusted and critical.
This is not the Liberal Party that I used to support.

But enough said. Back to the topic.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 26 February 2015 3:09:36 PM
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G'day there CHRISGAFF1000 and JAY of MELBOURNE...

Chris, perhaps if I had some say in recommending a suitable sidearm to government contracted, security companies who had a brief to provide additional security measures to these troubled Centres ? I'd recommend a .454 Casull on a 'Desert Eagle' frame ? Or too light do you think ? In any event, I should think the number of fallacious complaints, would rapidly disappear in quick time ?

JAY of MELBOURNE...

I don't know about you two gentleman, but I'm heartily sick of the number of complaints that seem to emanate from one or two of these detention centres. After all, many of these alleged refugees, arrive here unannounced, having discarded all documents of identity, we take them in, listen to their accounts. We feed and clothe them, render medical care, provide activities for them in these centres, and instead of fully cooperating with our immigration authorities, they allege all manner of untruths against these centres, and the people who staff those centres. Including the quantity and quality of their food.

Words like ungrateful, unthankful, manipulative, and mendacious do spring to mind. Still, we've an obligation to provide succour and protection to the world's refugees, haven't we ? Still one can't help wondering why and how, this word 'refugee' has become so expansive, so duplicitous and so indeterminate all at the same time ?

It's been suggested many of these people 'shop around' for a western nation that will provide sufficient welfare for themselves and their extended families, then having identified such a country and having carefully examined their welfare benefits, go for it ! And we Aussies, being the unsuspecting souls we are, just cop it sweet. Sorry fellas, had some minor surgery on my ugly melon this morning, the anaesthesia has now worn off, and the mother of a headache is thumping away happily ! See you later.
Posted by o sung wu, Thursday, 26 February 2015 3:22:54 PM
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o sung wu,

Did you happen to see this interesting post by by Jay Of Melbourne? Just to quote some for ease of reference,

"This level of redaction and reliance on unsubstantiated, anonymous testimony is typical of political propaganda:
http://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/asylum-seekers-and-refugees/national-inquiry-children-immigration-detention-2014-0

Look at the list of submissions, they're in a narrow range from stakeholders in the refugee industry such as the churches and refugee advocates, providers of health services to the disadvantaged to your usual open borders nuts. It is a biased report full of falsehoods, rumour and innuendo (particularly the risible "expert" testimony)but as usual the less than intelligent attorney general and his similarly intellectually challenged boss are approaching this in the only way they know how, the wrong way.

The coalition have to choose between civil rights and human rights, the two ideals are in direct opposition to one another, you can't assert inalienable human rights of one group without trampling the civil rights of another."
[Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 5:31:39 PM]

One wonders what level of accommodation and services are expected. Of course what the economic migrants want for the payment to the smugglers is free citizenship without checks, a ticket to 'Wonderful Centrelink' for life and a podium for complain for more.

Here is the potted history under Rudd, Gillard and the Greens,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0MHRSFz6FM

It is what the Abbott government inherited.

What did the Human Rights Commission have to say about stopping the deaths at sea from people smuggling gangs?
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 26 February 2015 3:40:23 PM
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Since you're all continuing to play partisan politics with the related issue, I'll just drop this into the mix....

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/26/labor-policy-damaged-children-its-time-they-owned-up-to-it?CMP=share_btn_tw

The "issue", however, is Brandis sending his agent to offer an inducement to Triggs to "move on".

I note the govt were eager to continue their misleading of parliament today in Question time...denying that another "job" had been mooted to Ms Triggs if she "moved on"

Moraitis testimony at estimates (under oath):

"He said he had, at Brandis’s request, told Triggs she had lost the confidence of the government, and of Brandis himself. He denied he had used the word resignation, but he agreed he had offered her another, specific “senior legal role” and that accepting that role would have meant she would have had to leave the human rights commission, that “one would follow from the other”."

Thats:

"...he agreed he had offered her another, specific “senior legal role”..."

I don't think he could have put it more clearly than that - and "still" the govt stands up on the floor of parliament and denies what we all know.

...........

platypus,

I can't be bothered replying to you, just as it seems you can't be bothered inserting capitals and fullstops.

.........

o sung wu, continuing his critique of Foxy, makes the obsevation that she's:

"....a very shrewd, cunning and guileful lady indeed ? And not one to pass-up any opportunity to employ her 'lady like' wiliness to advance her argument if necessary ? Occasionally resorting to subterfuge by drawing upon mountains of 'researched' links in order to reinforce her position...."

And Foxy reacts with - "Bless your heart.

That's the O Sung Wu - I thought I knew."

Fascinating, I'm sure, but - Sheesh!
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 26 February 2015 4:28:46 PM
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they should of just sacked her. Its only the public service that allows for you to get moved after telling lies. The sisterhood are so desperate.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 26 February 2015 4:36:00 PM
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Dear Poirot,

I skipped over the negative things
O Sung Wu said about me.
I know that he's merely upset over my reaction to
the David Hicks case earlier. I like to think that
he didn't really mean it and that eventually all
will be well again.
I paid more to the later part of his post - which
I did appreciate.

Again - Thanks for your concern.

Dear runner,

Please stop with your usual predictable insults
and if you are unable to contribute anything to
this discussion apart from insults - just fold it five
times and stick it where it belongs.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 26 February 2015 4:59:15 PM
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runner,

"they should of just sacked her.."

If you're going to comment, how about apprising yourself of the facts.

The govt couldn't have sacked her...it doesn't have the power to remove her - which is why they tried a bit of hanky-panky and attempted to induce her to move on.

I hear on the grapevine, they've now started to say (via Skynews) that she was the one who was seeking to be looked after.

And...here's the biggy....Moraitis reckons he's lost his notes!

They were in a briefcase that he lost!

Lol!...Lol!...Lol!

It would have been mildly more entertaining if he had claimed the dog had eaten it, but...well...
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 26 February 2015 5:10:01 PM
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C'mon POIROT I gotta sore head ! Ever respectful of the fairer sex, I must keep dry my powder as it were, otherwise I'd be savaged by the terrible trio of perfumed warriors ! Being the insipid soul that I am, and that would never do, now would it POIROT ? Who was it who said, '...revenge is best served cold...' ?
Posted by o sung wu, Thursday, 26 February 2015 5:26:08 PM
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A minor operation on your head o sung wu, I'm surprised at you.

I thought you old enough to be past the vanity of hair implants. Just joking mate, hope it was really minor.

Leave the vanity to the ladies mate, particularly some of the lefties. It is a good thing a couple of them are southerners. If they were up here in one of our cyclones, & even 20% of their tickets blew off them, they would destroy half the state, with the effect of a machine gun emplacement.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 26 February 2015 6:43:39 PM
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o sung wu,
Nice weapon old mate especially if you wanted to kill a tank.
Posted by chrisgaff1000, Thursday, 26 February 2015 7:01:55 PM
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'evening, FOXY and HASBEEN...

HASBEEN;... you've 'outed' me ! No, just the usual ol' mate, several BCC's that needed excising and off to pathology for testing - to ensure they got all the 'margins' of it out completely ?

HASBEEN, as an old Navy type, you'd have the same skin issues as me, particularly when you were Master of your own vessel, during those leisurely sailing days ? With a bevy of beautiful girls to distract you, in your meanderings through the balmy seas of the South Pacific !

Hi FOXY...

There's no enmity between you and me I sincerely hope ? Sure, politically speaking, we are diametrically opposite in our views and opinions. You're a very shrewd, adept opponent, whenever we choose to 'engage', often flooding your thread with citations ? Citations that generally have their origins from sources contiguous with the 'Left' ?

You do manage to harness all your feminine wiles and guile, whenever there's a shift in the debate ? And what's wrong with that ? Nobody should be so sensitive as to present themselves as a mere 'wilting violet' on topics that are particularly emotive or controversial in substance ?

I remember this old crook I'd pinched over and over again for the same street offences; fighting, assault & battery, bit of thieving etc., to a point I was so familiar with him, I always called him by his street nickname ('lumps and bumps'). One day after 'printing' him for the umpteenth time, he said, '...you know chief, we all bleed when we're cut...' a most prescient edict from one so socially challenged I thought ?

Occasionally, when any of us are 'stung' by another's remark, we tend to 'act up' or retaliate in a manner that should be quite foreign for a facility such as this ? After all, we're all total anonymous to each other, and it matters very little what we all think of one another ? Just enjoy the moment, and more importantly take 'NOTHING' to heart, for life is already too short eh ?
Posted by o sung wu, Thursday, 26 February 2015 8:27:06 PM
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Hi there ONTHEBEACH...

There's no doubt JAY of MELBOURNE does have the ability to pull all these different components of the argument together very admirably I would've thought ? His research capacity must be impeccable.

Indeed, the LNP have inherited a real mess with this refugee question. And with great credit, they've managed to halt any further boat arrivals hopefully. Yet they're still receiving negative reporting from many in the media, when they've managed to clear most of the children that were still in custody ? Actually I've heard on the news, there were only 100 or so children still left in detention, mainly because they choose to remain in the care of their family, while the family's refugee status was still subject to review ?.

You know, if only we could get some realistic cooperation with the Indonesians, to do their part in identifying people smugglers, and come at the problem from two directions. Thankfully the boats have not returned, still these smugglers are just quietly waiting just over the horizon, for many more refugees to reach out for the perilous trip to Christmas Island and welfare for life ? These people smugglers rely on these folk who need to seek out a better life, certainly not for any misguided altruistic motivation, purely for large sums of money, in a currency that's easily cashable ?

Thanks mate.
Posted by o sung wu, Thursday, 26 February 2015 8:57:01 PM
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Dear O Sung Wu,

Thank You for your thoughts.

No, there is no animosity towards you.

How could there be? You've always supported me
in the past.
Especially during my difficult times
when I was dealing with a few health problems.
For that I shall always be grateful.

As for our politics? My views are not set in concrete.
They never have been - and to me it all depends on
what my logic dictates. I do not like bullying tactics -
having been bullied both at school and work.
I think in today's political arena many people would be
grateful to elevate the one impressive person who might
have a vision for our country. We need a party that
under the right leadership takes on policy portfolios
to an electorate fed up with the current under-achievers
and party hacks. Large elements in the electorate yearn
for a leader who could cut through party constraiants
and lead with conviction.

But where is such a person?
Hopefully we'll find out before the next election.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 26 February 2015 9:06:46 PM
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Mind if I bring a fact or two into the discussion.

From the report it is obvious that the time spent in detention is the biggest factor in promoting psychological deterioration and rates of self harm among children.

So what happened to the number of children being held for over 3 months after the Abbott Government got in? By January 2014 it had more tripled, from around 400 to 1200 and the rates for those held over 6 months had reached record levels. This was part of their policy of deterrence.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-23/human-rights-commission-chart/6219702

This graphic shows what happened to over all rates of time spent in detention.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-23/breakdown-of-time-spent-in-onshore-detention/6220884

Just look at the 12 month rate blowing out.

Both governments have a lot to answer for but what the Abbott government did was to dramatically escalate, in a calculated manner, the punitive, harmful, inhumane lengthy incarceration of these minors.

If people want to make the case that these measures were necessary to 'stop the boats' then you are welcome to do so. But please do not continue to wheel out the line that somehow the Abbott lot are in anyway more humane or have done a better job of looking after those refugee children in their care, because they patently have not.

Triggs is an admirable person shining a light on an issue that blights us as a nation. Those who are attacking her for doing her job are partisan nut jobs who need to be ashamed of themselves.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 26 February 2015 11:21:01 PM
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Steele you wouldn't know a fact even if it jumped up & bit you on the ass.

This dreadful woman has used a public funded position to push her own personal ideology, a truly disgusting act common with lefties. I see you approve.

We should never under any circumstance ever again let anyone, from one month to 100 years old enter Australia by gate crashing. This playing on the heart strings of decent people is just another con job to get the kids families allowed in, where they have no right to be.

With people like you around we certainly don't need to import any more potential enemies.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 27 February 2015 1:18:16 AM
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SteeleRedux, one eyed as usual -

"But please do not continue to wheel out the line that somehow the Abbott lot are in anyway more humane or have done a better job of looking after those refugee children in their care, because they patently have not."

Can you cut and paste a quote from anyone who you think said the above. No one is making that claim. You are twisting things to make a lame point to divert attention from the facts Labor had 2000 children in detention; 200 are now there under the Coalition Govt.

"Triggs is an admirable person shining a light on an issue that blights us as a nation. Those who are attacking her for doing her job are partisan nut jobs who need to be ashamed of themselves."

Triggs admirable, LOL. Give us a break! Her timing was totally partisan but that's okay for you as she is a Labor/Greenie stooge. The so called 'attack' is has and always been on her timing. Those who point out the truth you call nut jobs. Take a long look in the mirror hypocrite.
Posted by ConservativeHippie, Friday, 27 February 2015 6:55:45 AM
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Dear Hasbeen,

You wrote;

“Steele you wouldn't know a fact even if it jumped up & bit you on the ass.”

You then proceeded to deliver not one single fact of your own but rather you fell back on your tired shtick of slander and bombast.

So on the topic of 'arse' (I still prefer the Australian vernacular though I understand the lazy like yourself care little about its preservation) why don't you pull your finger out of yours for once and at least attempt to rebut the facts I have posted. If you can't, they stand.

Dear ConservativeHippie,

You wrote;

“Can you cut and paste a quote from anyone who you think said the above. No one is making that claim. You are twisting things to make a lame point to divert attention from the facts Labor had 2000 children in detention; 200 are now there under the Coalition Govt.”

Did you even think to pause for a moment and read what you had written before posting it? To write “No one is making that claim” then deliver it yourself hardly makes your argument.

Do you understand the difference between detention for processing purposes and detention for deterrence? The first most Australians would agree with, the second rightly is a human rights issue that needed to be highlighted by Professor Triggs. Do you understand it is the length of time in detention that is the cause of psychological harm in these unfortunate children? Do you accept the fact that the number of children who were kept in extended incarceration leapt dramatically under the Coalition?

Well no you can't it seems. And you are the one labeling me as 'one eyed'?

Shameless my friend, bloody shameless.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 27 February 2015 7:52:07 AM
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Well excuse me Steele for not being a mind reader, I'm so ashamed.

I didn't realise that when you brought up which lot were doing the better job of looking after the children in their care, you were not actually referring to the physical conditions, programs, health care, food, and general facilities which would be equally attributable to both the Labor and Coalition governments.

Obviously I also failed to understand that reducing the number of children in detention to 200 over the past 18 months is far worse than having 2000 in detention for even longer under the open door Labor/Green policy.

I've also failed to realise its totally acceptable for a government stooge to act on behalf of and in the best interest of the Labor Party and totally inappropriate for the Coalition to 'out' that partisan behaviour publically.

May I ask why you haven't included in your stats a comparison of the numbers who died attempting to reach Australia under Labor to those under the Coalition? I suppose that would be another inconvenient truth that is even harder to manipulate the figures.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question. If you were employed by a company that you were philosophically opposed, and you were caught discrediting them on Facebook, and the company advised you that your employment was untenable but they would find you alternative employment, would you refuse to cooperate? Would you be morally outraged such a discussion was even being raised?
Posted by ConservativeHippie, Friday, 27 February 2015 8:53:41 AM
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@ hippie

spot on mate

thumbs up....
Posted by platypus1900, Friday, 27 February 2015 9:06:32 AM
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I will quote from a previous
site I gave earlier -

"President of the Human Rights Commission -
Prof. Gillian Triggs should not resign.
She has done her job. She is an international
lawyer of global standing. She has faithfully
applied the law. Like most international lawyers,
Prof. Triggs is not radical. International law is
after all, made by governments. She was Dean of
the country's oldest law school - hardly a hotbed
of revolution."

"If anyone should be seriously questioning their
judgement and position - it is the Attorney-General.
By pressuring Prof. Triggs to resign on grounds not
recognised in the Commission's statute Senator Brandis
sought to improperly interfere with the tenure of an
independent statutory office holder."

We were told that on the week-end the Australian Bar Association
and the Law Council of Australia took the rare step of issuing
a joint statement to condemn the "unprecedented attack" on
Triggs. Representing all Australian lawyers and barristers,
those two peak bodies, hardly anti-Coalition, declared that:

"Personal criticism directed at her or any judicial or
quasi-judicial officer fulfilling the duties of public office
as required by law is an attack upon the independence and
integrity of the Commission and undermines confidence in our
system of justice and Human Rights protection."

A mature, child-friendly goverment would have responded in
a different way. They would have owned up to the damage
wrought on innocent children and made it right.
However a government that trivialises child abuse, and is
pathologically hostile towards a Commission that seeks to make
children safe is unfit to govern our country.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 27 February 2015 9:24:42 AM
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Hugh de Kretser writing for The Age points out that:

The Commission handed the government its damning
report into the harm being inflicted on children
in immigration detention on November 11, 2014. The
government waited until the last possible day,
Feb. 11, 2015, before publicly releasing it.

In the meantime it launched an unprecedented political
attack.

In December it announced a 30 per cent funding cut to
the Commission.

In early February the government sought Prof Triggs
resignation.

When the report was finally made public instead of addressing
the overwhelming evidence of severe damage to children
the PM rejected the findings and attacked the report as
blatantly partisan saying the "Commission ought to be
ashamed of itself."

The pattern is clear. The government is punishing the
Commission.

Forget that the ommission was doing its job by investigating
and reporting on an important human rights issue in Australia.
Forget that the Commission was even-handed in its criticism
of both sides of politics over their handling of the issue.

What makes these attacks worse is that they are part of a
broader trend of this governments - which they have displayed
and continue to display since taking office.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 27 February 2015 9:37:01 AM
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The whole Abbott problem with kids in detention is his promise that no boat people will ever be allowed into AU, we now see there has been a steady stream of people being admitted into AU, which goes against his promise.

This report has left Abbott high and dry and blown his cover of yet more lies. What a filthy liar this man is. The people of AU have been deceived again, by the incompetence of this LNP leadership.

The report calls for a royal commission, to get at the details of information that is withheld from us in our name.

Abbott has had his tenure as PM of AU, the populous has lost all confidence in this regime and call for a new leader as soon as possible.
Posted by 579, Friday, 27 February 2015 9:37:03 AM
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Oh dear ConservativeHippie, perhaps if I type a little slower it might help.

You wrote;

“Obviously I also failed to understand that reducing the number of children in detention to 200 over the past 18 months is far worse than having 2000 in detention for even longer under the open door Labor/Green policy.”

'having 2000 in detention even longer'? ? ?

What on earth are you talking about? They were in detention for a far less period than when the coalition began using lengthy incarceration as a deterrent. The 2000 was a total figure but it was constantly being renewed with throughput.

I repeat, the number of kids in detention for over three months tripled under the Coalition's punitive actions. That is a fact. That the cases of self harm rose as a result is a fact. Your are welcome to provide facts of your own and I'm happy to let them speak for themselves if they hold any water but as of now you have failed to do so. All you have done is regurgitate the Abbott government mantra, one that has gone virtually unchallenged by a compliant media. I don't have the capacity to pull up Ministers doing doorstops but I am able to show it for what it is here, crap. The attack on Professor Triggs makes it very clear they understand how destructive their actions have been.

I would thank you for not serving any more of their rubbish up here.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 27 February 2015 10:14:06 AM
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Dear SteeleRedux,

I find it very disturbing that on the international stage
Australia is leading the charge to tell other nations to
respect the independence of their national human rights
institutions yet in their own country their political
attack is designed to undermine our independent national
human rights warchdog. As various commentators have noted
this is bad enough in isolation but what makes these attacks
worse is they are part of a broader trend by the government.

Our independent watchdogs, our independent court system, our
rule of law, press freedom and the ability of non-government
organisations to speak freely are all vital to our democracy
and for the protection of human rights particularly as
has been pointed out earlier in the absence of a constitutional
or legislative Bill of Rights.

Since taking office the government has actively undermined these
protections.

That should matter to us all.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 27 February 2015 10:37:20 AM
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SteeleRedux,

We shouldn't be surprised that some here look beyond the Abbott govt's exquisite sadism in slowing down the processing of adult and child asylum seekers.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-23/triggs-detention/6083476

I believe the processing of men of on Manus was around 1% - if that.

The idea was not to process, but to incarcerate asylum seekers - the upshot being that if you take away hope and self-respect and neglect your charges, then the said asylum seekers would "go home" preferring any number of tortures to one they were receiving in the "processing centre" - or gulag as it became.

Why just the other day, an 8 months pregnant victim of FCM tried to harm herself after being refused the specialist care she required - told she could have her high risk birth on Nauru - or (wait for it) return to whence she came.

http://www.news.com.au/national/an-eight-month-pregnant-refugee-tries-to-harm-herself-after-being-denied-urgent-medical-help/story-fncynjr2-1227239083870

"Channel Ten’s The Project reported tonight that the woman, a Somalian refugee living in the Nauru community, was allegedly told by the Australian government that she had to choose between giving birth in Nauru — and risk her, and her baby’s, life — or return to Somalia, where she had been subjected to female genital mutilation."

(Wait for it - the kindly folk here will tell us that if she's been turfed out to the Nauruan community by Oz authorities, she should think herself lucky - and the oh-so-caring Oz authorities aren't responsible for putting her and her baby's life at risk)

Exquisite sadism...and these jokers here are attempting to paint the Abbott govt as caring and the victim of bias when the AHRC criticises both Parties for their actions.

This - on the misleading double-talk of Julie Bishop on the floor of Parlt.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/julie-bishop-admits-role-with-triggs-was-discussed-20150226-13q0nw.html
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 27 February 2015 10:49:38 AM
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spare us your croc tears Poirot. Thre progressives have shown like Trigg they have no moral authority to lecture. Hyprocrisy they know not what it means. Do a little research on drowning Poirot something you conveniently ignore.
Posted by runner, Friday, 27 February 2015 10:53:58 AM
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runner,

"spare us your croc tears Poirot. Thre progressives have shown like Trigg they have no moral authority to lecture. Hyprocrisy they know not what it means. Do a little research on drowning Poirot something you conveniently ignore."

Okay, you rather vacuous mock-Christian...let's get a few things straight.

We ALL KNOW that you couldn't give a hoot about "them thar foreigners drowning"

You merely employ it for your puerile flossy no-substance comments here - as if, with your gallons of hate speak, you think you can somehow convince us that you "care" about those lives lost iin desperation.

People are still drowning - it's just that Australia has made sure they don't do it anywhere near us - and who's to say what's going on up there. Morrison and now Dutton have a total block on information.

We'll catch up with that in the years to come - and then we'll find out the true extent of this govt's psychopathy.

You're about as Christian as my cat - except my cat doesn't jump onto OLO and rant hateful measly three-line run-by comments several times a day.

"Crocodile tears" is what you term concern for humans and their conditions...do you think people make perilous voyages to escape violence and torture like Aussies do on their annual shop-fest to Bali?

Why don't you post something of substance?

I mean - go on....

You're a light-weight tosser of light-weight thought bubbles.
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 27 February 2015 11:26:21 AM
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at the end of the day, australians do not want too many migrants...period

yes, we can continue standing on high moral ground and talk about due legal process and children in DC or pregnant women in distress

australia really does not welcome migrants... at least not the boat category

professionals... educated ...well to do migrants, ok, we love them

the rest?

so let us stop kidding ourselves
we laid back ozzies are already sinking the country with the huge deficit and a welfare system that simply is not sustainable
Posted by platypus1900, Friday, 27 February 2015 11:43:20 AM
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A lovely picture you paint o sung wu, but you know, I never found the Pacific all that balmy. In fact whether it be racing to Hobart, or crossing the Coral sea, it was usually cloudy windy, & it wanted mostly, to leap into the air, & land on top of me. This is particularly unpleasant down Hobart way, where it is also damn cold.

The main reason I ever went near the thing, privately, was because the place I wanted to explore was on the other side of a chunk of it, not because it offered any pleasure when upon it. Few realise that on a well found yacht, you can easily live in the islands for $100 a month, making it the only practical way for us peasants to explore.

We can blame the myth on the rather nasty Cortes, who only viewed the thing from the isthmus of Panama, rather than actually getting on the thing, aided by that crazy English man, Chichester, whose book Along The Clipper Way, written from his research for his circumnavigation, induced me to go out on it.

Let me say, one should never trust a member of the English gentry. They are sadistic bastards, rather like our lefties, much given to lying & glorifying, that which is far from glorious.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 27 February 2015 12:04:11 PM
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Hasbeen,

"Let me say, one should never trust a member of the English gentry. They are sadistic bastards, rather like our lefties, much given to lying & glorifying, that which is far from glorious."

Hope you don't mind me interrupting your latest puff piece about your swashbuckling exploits....but can I remind you that it's the born to rule Libs who appear to cling tightly to the English gentry.

As a good example, our own (soon to be ex) Prime Minister is the one who laughingly re-instituted Knights and Dames...Lol!
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 27 February 2015 12:11:20 PM
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The grimy tactics of an out of control leader, is putting this nation at risk, Abbott is dangerous. Yes knights and dames, what a piece of glorious history.

Turnbull is the man, middle of the road gentleman. Not like bombastic Abbott, who fancies himself as a Stalin.

It goes to show that the righties have better choice of leader for the leftists than they do. It ‘s going to take time to claw back some respect for the nation, when the world stops laughing that is.

This last lot of bile over Triggs is a world disgrace. The man has no scruples what so ever. For the sake of the nation we need a change sooner rather than later.
Posted by 579, Friday, 27 February 2015 1:00:40 PM
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G'day HASBEEN...

Gee I sure got the wrong end of the stick ? I would've thought sailing in the tropics would be all 'beer and skittles', though I'm not so naïve to believe the weather can't be very treacherous and dubious, often being able to turn on a dime ?

As you say, sailing in your own vessel must be a sweet way to do it, instead of being squashed in an economy class seat for a horrid 14 hour sector Sydney - LAX ! Being a sizable lad, my ribs were bruised and sore at journey's end be assured of that ? No such luck having an attractive young lady nudging my elbow on our shared armrest either ?

But I was graced with the pleasant company of a mother, who was accompanied by her two early teenage daughters, (apparently a one parent family?) all of whom were in the process of undertaking their first ever grand tour of Disneyland, in Anaheim CA.

I was beguiled to a 14 hour detailed synopsis of what attractions each were looking forward too, upon arrival ? After LAX I still had an additional 5 hours sector to DC ! Still as Forest GUMP once opined, '...Life's like a box of chocolates...' ?
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 27 February 2015 1:19:19 PM
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Off topic but just wondering. Will all you Abbott haters give Turnbull a chance to settle in and perhaps make some of the positive changes you desire?

Or will it business as usual but with a new name to blame?

Personally I think Turnbull should be replacing Bill Shorten, then your mob might actually get a direction.
Posted by ConservativeHippie, Friday, 27 February 2015 3:04:09 PM
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Dear ConservativeHippie,

Tony Abbott has proven that he cannot achieve
the impossible, that is, fundamentally change
his nature, personality, and approach to work
at such an advanced age and stage of his life.

He has proven that he can't turn opinion polls
around or save his Prime Ministership.

The mess he's in is of his own making.
His failings of individualism, single-minded
"captain calls," and his incompetence - did him in.
Plus the mediocre talent gathered within his
front-bench didn't help.

Malcolm Turnbull is another case altogether. He's
someone who is an impressive person, someone who
might actually have a vision for the country.
He would hand select a group of specialised
individuals to take-on policy portfolios -
and this would be enormously attractive to an electorate
fed up with the underachievers and party hacks of the
current mob.

There are large elements in the electorate who for years
now yearn for a leader who has the capacity to cut
through party constraints and lead with conviction.
Malcolm Turnbull is such a man.

Virginia Trioli recently wrote this about our current
political situation:

"I don't particularly care whether a monarch goes or
stays. But if our leaders are going to keep behaving
like one-person bands, then I'd at least like a direct
say in who sings the sing!"

Damn straight - and the current guy is as we've
seen - "Abottsolutely hopeless!"
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 27 February 2015 3:22:04 PM
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"Personally I think Turnbull should be replacing Bill Shorten, then your mob might actually get a direction."

That's quite funny since Abbott's wonderful sense of "direction" has led him straight over the cliff.

Regarding Turnbull - if anyone can rein in this govt's stoopid IPA-inspired right-wing extremism, they'll do the Libs a power of good.

And a further bonus will be that we won't have inflicted on us daily Abbott's ridiculous gaffes.
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 27 February 2015 3:24:54 PM
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On several occasions I've stated my disillusionment with Tony Abbott; I've totally given up on him and have no sympathy for his plight.

I take it Foxy might be willing to see how things work out if Malcolm gets in but from Poirot's reply I suspect she may continue to deride whoever the Coalition chooses, whatever that person's policies are.
Posted by ConservativeHippie, Friday, 27 February 2015 6:56:47 PM
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Dear ConservativeHippie,

Predicting anything in politics is risky
at the best of times. Things can change overnight
as we know.

We'll have to wait and see what develops.

I would definitely like to see Malcolm Turnbull
as our next Prime Minister. But its up to the
party at this time to decide whether Mr Abbott
stays or goes.

Lets hope that the party realises just how much
damage Mr Abbott is doing - both to the party and
this country.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 27 February 2015 7:10:32 PM
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Poirot it is not our fault you left it too late to do anything interesting in your life.

Some of us had a lot of things we wanted to do, & actually went & did them.

Do try not to be so jealous.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 27 February 2015 11:57:14 PM
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Never mind, Hasbeen....we all tend to get a bit snarky on here.

If this wasn't inclined to be such a politically partisan forum, I'd probably quite enjoy listening to your stories...but...there's usually a boot up the bum for lefties inserted somewhere in your narrative : )

Our best friends are a married couple who vote Liberal. We have to avoid politics in the main when interacting, because of the danger of one or the other of us arcing up. It's happened a few times - and rapidly got quite heated.

Cheers
Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 28 February 2015 12:30:59 AM
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If we have to have a noalition govt; i want it to be functional. Turnbull is a fair leader and has the statesman quality. We need to get some of our national pride back, and put an end to the over the top and out of control Abbott.
That man was destined to be a dunce right from day one after the election, that was won on a fraud.
Turnbull is the man for the libs, he will command respect.
Posted by 579, Saturday, 28 February 2015 7:34:46 AM
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Dear Foxy and Poirot,

I agree that Brandis and Abbott have been disgraceful on this. They are partisan thugs with little to no regard for important institutions like the Human Right Commission.

The remarks by the former Disability Commissioner were telling;

Quote;

Mr Innes said when he was first appointed to the two commission roles, then-attorney-general Philip Ruddock said he should do the job without fear or favour.

"The 'without fear or favour' process continued under Philip Ruddock and the three attorneys-general in the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd government ... It changed under that of George Brandis, where the officers ourselves, the commissioners ourselves, the statutory officers ourselves were questioned, rather than what we were putting to the Government and the attorney from the perspective of the Human Rights Commission … Our integrity was questioned in the same way that Gillian Triggs' integrity has been questioned in the last month."

Mr Innes also criticised the appointment of Tim Wilson, who is now the human rights commissioner, from the Institute of Public Affairs.
"Tim Wilson came from an organisation that was known to have a policy that the commission should be abolished," he said.
"That seems a contradiction to me, to appoint someone like that as human rights commissioner. There was also no selection process, as there has been for the former four or five commissioners before they were appointed, so this was very much a captain's pick. What it did was provide the attorney with his representative, his man in the commission.”

End quote.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-27/graeme-innes-says-attorney-general-not-doing-his-job/6269466

The sooner we see the backs of these two the better.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Saturday, 28 February 2015 9:38:30 AM
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Dear SteeleRedux,

Thank You for the additional information.

I have a feeling that history will not judge either
Mr Abbott or Mr Brandis too gently. When all the facts
come out it will be quite a revelation what these
two got up to. Someone is sure to write an honest
account - perhaps it will be Philip Ruddock - or even
Julie Bishop or Scott Morrison - one day. It would make for interesting reading.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 28 February 2015 9:50:27 AM
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Notwithstanding just how bad Messrs ABBOTT and BRANDIS allegedly are, I'll always be a conservative as long as my mean-spirited life remains in the vertical. EXCEPT ! Should they (the LNP) have another Party room spill, and elect Mr Malcolm TURNBULL as their new Prime Minister, if that should come to pass; I'll gladly join the Greens.

Mr TURNBULL represents the epitome of treacherousness, the ultimate quisling or 'fifth columnist' (and here I thought, all of those buggers were situated in police command ?) and I wouldn't trust him with today's date ! I accept he's ostensibly the 'darling' of the Canberra Press Gallery, he's articulate, rarely stubbles over he's words, unlike the present incumbent, and he's a far more acceptable foe to Labour, than Mr ABBOTT.

One thing with Tony ABBOTT, what you see is what you get ! With Malcolm TURNBULL, he's very accomplished with positioning his Sykes Fairbairn - right through the medulla oblongata. Be well advised, our Mr TURNBULL is a very nasty, disloyal and duplicitous individual indeed.
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 28 February 2015 11:00:41 AM
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o sung wu,

"One thing with Tony ABBOTT, what you see is what you get !..."

Is that supposed to be a mitigation for the shambles?

If "what you see is what get" is what we've seen and what we've got - and represents a "positive" it goes to heart of his inanity.

His problem was and is that he was a very successful Opposition leader because of Labor disunity, media bias and a policy in Opposition of misleading the electorate.

He campaigned as a moderate and governs like an extremist.

Add to that an extremely savvy and articulate social media revolution which often bypasses the middle man of MSM to share its information - and any disingenuous inarticulate liar (of which Abbott is a base example) will have problems.
Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 28 February 2015 11:20:29 AM
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Hi there POIROT...

Can I take it, you don't like him ?
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 28 February 2015 11:34:50 AM
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It’s very hard to fathom some persons sizing up of fact when it comes to Abbott. He resembles a twisted and warped derelict. I find it hard to take them seriously when people stand up for Abbott’s good points.

A shameless addict, is our PM. Addicted to lies. Bishop could not take the lie any more saying there was not a job offered but there was a role.

Playing with words, in a disgraceful display of bastardisation against a person of the highest integrity
Posted by 579, Saturday, 28 February 2015 11:36:01 AM
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o sung wu,

"Can I take it, you don't like him ?"

Amazing that many here ask that as if they can't work out why my critique of Abbott is so harsh.

We now have almost the whole of Australia echoing my thoughts - day in and day out.

His leadership (and team) has been a disaster for the LNP.

Of course, it's much better for my side of politics if he remains as leader...but I can't help surmising what the LNP can do to help drag itself out of the mire.
Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 28 February 2015 11:43:14 AM
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Like no one in the Labor Party ever lied and the media isn't now biased against Abbott. Its simply history repeating. Gillard and Abbott suffering the same fate for the same reasons.
Posted by ConservativeHippie, Saturday, 28 February 2015 11:44:23 AM
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"Like no one in the Labor Party ever lied and the media isn't now biased against Abbott. Its simply history repeating. Gillard and Abbott suffering the same fate for the same reasons."

Lol!

You have to admit that karma is a glorious thing!

However, we shouldn't forget Tony's exceptional contribution to his own demise.
Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 28 February 2015 12:17:55 PM
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And what an unsurpassed contribution Abbott has made. He has made himself look almost inhuman. Wouldn’t you think he would have learned by history. You don’t tell lies. For someone that was elected on lies he has fared very well in the top job. We have lies on top of lies. We have a PM virtually calling a human rights commissioner a liar.

No wonder this unoccupied head, the PM has got, he is now in all sorts of bother. You can see why he has great respect for Phil they are two of a kind.

Unparalleled in history is our PM and should get an un abashed reference for his tenure, from the GG.
Posted by 579, Saturday, 28 February 2015 12:34:45 PM
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In the interests of balance and form The Sydney Morning Herald, a 'MSM'(sic) that has suited the Leftists here to quote on previous occasions,

"The immediate flashpoint is the commission's inquiry into children in detention, which the government argues was blatantly partisan because she launched it soon after the Coalition came into office, rather than during the Labor years when child numbers in custody were at their peak.

Triggs says she decided to wait until after the 2013 election for fear of running into the caretaker period of government. But the government's claim that she was out to "stitch it up" gained some support when a former human rights commissioner, Sev Ozdowski admitted he found the timing of last year's inquiry "odd"."

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/row-involving-human-rights-commission-president-gillian-triggs-puts-careers-on-the-line-20150227-13qdog.html

"Odd" would be diplomatic.
Posted by onthebeach, Saturday, 28 February 2015 1:18:11 PM
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Hi (again) POIROT...

With reluctance I must agree with you. Poor old Tony ABBOTT does tend to make a complete mess Of many of the 'smaller' decisions he makes ? His 'Captains Call' are an absurdity. Surely they have no place in contemporary political machinations ? Whoever dreamed up this piece of absurd 'folly' should've given themselves a sharp 'uppercut' for the flagrant stupidity of such a ridiculous remark !

You'll not agree but, I still think, even now, Tony ABBOTT himself, is basically a decent bloke, of high morality. I know, I know, POIROT, he's been party to breaking promises, twisting 'n turning, like an acrobat at the end of a rope ? But he himself is a decent person who's probably 'morally unfit' to serve as a politician ! I'm leading with 'my jaw' hear aren't I ?

Where, your Kevin RUDD'S, Malcolm FRASER'S, Malcolm TURNBULL'S, and many others, are very well fitted for a job (not career) in politics ? Most are completely and absolutely morally bereft, like many of their predecessors, as with many who'll follow them !

A good pollie should not possess notions, of lofty ideals, or moral comportment. Otherwise they'll fail miserably in politics. I've (some)knowledge of this stuff POIROT ? I've done 'close protection' duties during the FRASER, HAWK and KEATING era ? 'Close Protection', gives one a very 'near' look at certain personal behaviours, not seen when in public or amongst colleagues, many are humorous, some awful in the extreme ? I could tell you a tale or two, believe me ?

Particularly concerning an august member of a high judicial office. A person I despise and loath with great fervency and intensity. You never know dear POIROT, one day perhaps the truth might see the light of day ? With this person my rancour, burns with white heat.
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 28 February 2015 1:44:00 PM
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Delivery was 10 years so it was delivered on time. Abbott seen it as damaging to him. Before he shot his mouth off he could have put it all back on labor.
But he done an Abbott which he is famous for and will now suffer the consequences. He doesn’t have the right to criticize or lose confidence in any commissioner, that is not his role.

That other dork who was supposed to support the commissioner in her role apparantly didn’t even know his obligations, instead he sent a messenger looking for a resignation.
Posted by 579, Saturday, 28 February 2015 2:01:43 PM
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o sung wu,

As I implied in another thread, the greatest bulk of the criticism of Tony Abbott is a dubious narrative of speculative gossip that is the 24hour news cycle.

The media makes the news. That is concerning in itself, but more so where career politicians join in. That is the problem: too many career politicians who play at politics, while feathering their own nests and acting as cuckoos at the same time, keeping out men and women with sound records of personal accomplishment in the private sector where it matters.

Bumpf from the 24hour news cycle seems to suit the sort of sad *bleeps* who infest social media and need some 'shock, horror' to make them feel alive. They need to get out more.

There are those who are adept at manipulating the media and through them, the mob. We are right to loathe and fear them. Unfortunately Whitlam put many of them on the guvvy payroll, either unwittingly or by design to secure votes.

Tony Abbott is nowhere near as accident-prone as most who are around him, or are in public life elsewhere for that matter.

There are many sportspeople (usually men as the prevailing PC dictates it has to be) who are being targetted by the tabloids and the Twitterati all of the time. Some cricketers are presently being targetted. For the media it is about getting an audience for advertisers, NOW! and their dumbed-down 'punters' (as the media themselves describe them) have the attention span and memory of a gnat.
Posted by onthebeach, Saturday, 28 February 2015 2:31:37 PM
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We must thank OTB for the link to the SMH article. It is very informative.

Brandis wants us to believe he flew the most senior public servant down from Sydney just to tell Professor Triggs that if she ever decided to leave her job that there would be another position made available for he within the government.

This same public servant contradicts Professor Triggs' firm recollection that the word 'resignation' was used, and so he would after it became apparent his boss could be in real hot water for attempted bribery of an independent commissioner if that were proven.

But when asked about his notes of the meeting he says he has 'lost' them. That may well raise even osw's eyebrow.

So we are being asked to choose between concluding Professor Triggs' is blatantly lying or that a extremely senior public servant is so unprofessional that he would accidentally lose his notes of such an important meeting.

Whew, that's a hard one.

Now to the former commissioner Dr Sev Ozdowski's remarks about the timing of announced inquiry being 'odd'. He actually said 'very odd'. His own inquiry into children in detention in 2001 during the Howard era was caused by the terribly punishing lengthy incarceration periods experienced by those kids. He spoke in a speech in 2003 of the three stages of deterioration:

Cont...
Posted by SteeleRedux, Saturday, 28 February 2015 3:13:05 PM
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cont...

Quote;

1) In general, one could say, people can take up to 2-3 months of detention without major visible impact on them. They are relieved to be in Australia and believe that their new start in life is just around the corner.
2) After this their behaviour changes. We witnessed trauma, self-harm and family disintegration on our visits.
3) After one year in detention, the number of people requiring psychological and psychiatric help is staggering.

End Quote.

So what was the incarceration period back then?
“In January 2003, the average length of detention for children was more than one year and three months.”
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/news/speeches/long-term-detention-and-mental-health-dr-sev-ozdowski-oam-2003

In the months leading up to the election the average incarceration time was 3 to 4 months but after 6 months of Morrison this had more than doubled “The average length of time that a child spent in an immigration detention facility in Australia as at 31 March 2014 was 231 days”.
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/asylum-seekers-and-refugees/national-inquiry-children-immigration-detention-2014

Which is when Professor Triggs announced to Morrison she was holding a fresh inquiry and also when Ozdowski made the comment about the timing being very odd. But there is no indication that he knew of the punishing escalation in detention times that had been occurring.

During the inquiry period and by the end of the Coalition's first year the figures had further dramatically increased to the levels which had prompted Ozdowski to call the first inquiry “more than one year and three months”. Remember his own words “After one year in detention, the number of people requiring psychological and psychiatric help is staggering.”

Ozdowski rightly asks why an inquiry wasn't instituted earlier when “Labor was at its peak of cruelty towards the boat arrivals”, this was when incarceration times were at 3 – 4 months. How much more cruel must he regard the Coalition with lengths more than triple Labour's?

But I actually agree with this criticism of Trigg's, the inquiry should have come earlier. If it had it might have tempered some of the cruelty dished out on these poor people by the likes of Abbott and Morrison.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Saturday, 28 February 2015 3:15:09 PM
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The HR commission is a farce and was created to appease civil libertarians and the greens. I suggest it is abandoned and Triggs put to a more useful task.
Posted by SILLER, Saturday, 28 February 2015 4:15:04 PM
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SteeleRedux, "But I actually agree with this criticism of Trigg's, the inquiry should have come earlier"

That is the point is it not? Why did she delay the report if she believed things were dreadful?

Surely if the house is burning down you don't wait until the Fire Brigade has arrived, practically dealt with it all and then criticise them for the fire that someone else caused.

Tony Abbott is right to say that his government should be credited with effectively treating the problem and saving thousands, children included. -Since their parents and carers put the children's lives on the line to gain benefit for themselves later. Where economic migrants are concerned, children's lives are cheap, apparently.
Posted by onthebeach, Saturday, 28 February 2015 4:28:34 PM
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G'day there ONTHEBEACH...

I dunno mate, in my living memory I've never known a single individual in Aussie politics who's copped so much, from so many, in such a short space of time ? Moreover, the intensity of which these barrages against ABBOTT would probably topple lesser men ?

I don't believe I've heard anyone in the Canberra Press Gallery say a kind word about him, ever ! Nor has any of them praised anything, he or his Party's done. These obese, physically decrepit, flabby big mouth journalist's (we'll not mention names) who sit back in their five star, Manuka 'watering holes' guzzling their way through martini after martini, and other potent alcoholic shots they enjoy so much, trying to think of more hurtful remarks, more damaging allegations with which to further assassinate and denigrate Abbott's character ?

Gezz if it was me they were vilifying, I'd dearly love to render a couple of these fat slugs to an orientation where they're capable of 'sucking concrete' ? It's funny really how something, some situation, can give rise to an unseen primeval instinct to emerge ?

Regardless of what Party ABBOTT belongs, to cop these relentless personal attacks he's had to endure, is positively disgusting, and I believe it illustrates the depth in which Australian politics has sunk ?

Of course, none of these highly principled, incorruptible journalists, have ever done the wrong thing, made a Captains Call, acted in a way others might find very shameful ? Perfection is a wonderful thing, and something that must remain exclusively within the purview of journalists ? It's no wonder members of the police loath them with the intensity they do ? They can say anything about cops or coppers, in turn the cop or coppers are not permitted a right of reply...amazing ?
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 28 February 2015 4:52:29 PM
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Why is Tony Abbott and his government wrong?

Firstly the Commission did not politically target
the Abbott government. The Commission calls out
both Coalition and Labor governments and acknowledges
improvements under the Coalition.

The Commission has fully explained the timing of its inquiry.
It was driven by the longer periods of detention under the
Coalition, the need for a break anter finishing another
inquiry, and the ten year anniversary of its 2004 report.

The Commission handed the government its damning report into
the harm being inflicted on children in immigration detention
on November 11 2014. The government waited until the last
possible day, February 11, 2015 before publicly releasing it.
In the meantime it launched an unprecedented dirty political
attack.

In December it announced a 30 per cent funding cut to the
Commission.

In early February the government sought Prof. Triggs
resignation.

When the report was finally made public instead of addressing
the overwhelming evidence of severe damage to children,
the PM and his Attorney-General rejected the findings and
attacked the report as blatantly partisan saying the
"Commission ought to be ashamed of itself."

The pattern is clear - the government is punishing the
Commission. It is the PM and his Attorney-General who
should be ashamed of themselves. It is they who have
lost credibility. It is they who should resign.
Both are unfit for their jobs.

As Malcolm Turnbull stated - it should be about the children!

Hear, Hear!
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 28 February 2015 5:04:10 PM
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o sung wu,

"I dunno mate, in my living memory I've never known a single individual in Aussie politics who's copped so much, from so many, in such a short space of time ? Moreover, the intensity of which these barrages against ABBOTT would probably topple lesser men ?"

I suppose you were out there defending Gillard when the press pack rounded on her unrelentingly?

No?

Erm...we'd be battling to find a PM who has goofed and gaffed, lied and dog-whistled - almost on a daily basis - to the extent of Abbott.

A "lesser man" implies that you consider him a man of integrity.

You'd be battling to convince around 80% of Australians that he embodies that virtue....even the ones who overlook his crass ineptitude
Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 28 February 2015 5:28:00 PM
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yep Poirot we are yet to have a contributor to OLO so obsessed with abottphobia over the last five years. You really should apply for a job at the abc. Still see you have no idea of what the word shame means by defending Gillard. The sisterhood links are very deep and blinding.
Posted by runner, Saturday, 28 February 2015 6:41:45 PM
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Jeepers...we're all treated to another cyclonic runner run-by post!

runner, who, by the way, constantly relives the glory of having invented the term "abottphobia"....which he tweaked from his all time fave "Christophobia"

Which is about as substantial as his rhetoric gets.

Go on runner, give it a go...really sock it to me!

It'll do me good to be taken down a peg or two.
Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 28 February 2015 6:56:13 PM
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Dear runner,

The Macquarie Dictionary chooses the "Word Of
The Year," annually. This has apparently been a tradition
since 2006.

I wonder what word they will choose this year?

Words that possibly might qualify are:

Team Australia
Shirtfronting
Smoking-Gun
Abbottphobia
Progressives
Leftists
Sisterhood

To name just a few.

Words are like mirrors. The mirror of language held
up close is very revealing.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 28 February 2015 7:27:51 PM
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Don't forget to add 'Juliar' to the list.

And recently I saw a great new phrase coined - poirotisms
Posted by ConservativeHippie, Saturday, 28 February 2015 7:39:25 PM
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Hi POIROT...

I'm afraid you're right, they way many speak of our Prime Minister, he's no less than the Devil incarnate ? He's the embodiment of all that's wrong in our country ?

Somehow, no matter how flawed he is, nobody can be so bad, so wrong or so dishonourable as Mr Tony ABBOTT ! And yes I do firmly believe he's a man of high moral worth, more often misunderstood, not easily liked, and unable to 'connect' with those of the Australian electorate ! With all his 'alleged' mistakes, his alleged 'lies', I believe there's an orchestrated campaign to politically destroy him, employing whatever methods, legal or otherwise that are available !

And I'll concede he's made errors, mistakes so stupid that'll haunt him his entire political career. But where is the truth of the matter ?

There are the beliefs that are held by those of the 'Left' ? and There are the beliefs that are held of those on the Conservative side. And then, there is the 'Truth' !

What's needed is someone who's independent enough, to tease out the facts:- * The lies, the misrepresentations, and mythology, perpetrated by those of the Left ? and * The lies, the misrepresentations, and mythology, perpetrated by those of the LNP ?

Then we'll see just how culpable and capable, our PM, Tony ABBOTT really is ?
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 28 February 2015 8:05:11 PM
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o sung wu,

"...he's no less than the Devil incarnate ?..."

No he's not...

He's merely an inept and mendacious pollie who was accidentally voted in as LNP leader.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/the-accidental-leader-how-abbott-won-20091204-kbc8.html

The fact that he turned out to be "so" good at sledging and lying in Opposition gave people a false idea of his capacities in govt.

That's all...
Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 28 February 2015 8:11:46 PM
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tony abbot is not great
but he is marginally better than rudd
much better than gillard

and way way better than those who creates mischief on the social media

and also better that his comrades who won the election with him as leader and now gunning for his job... shame on them
Posted by platypus1900, Saturday, 28 February 2015 8:27:46 PM
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o sung wu,

As I said, it is the 24 hour news cycle that makes the news through speculative gossip.

Of course there is a whole gravy train of serially upset who swing from the guvvy teats, feel threatened and have their wooden spoons out as well.

You can imagine how may bureaucrats and private contractors, especially lawyers, have been getting fat courtesy of the exasperated taxpayer spruiking for economic migrants, for instance. There are fleas on fleas on fleas who have been siphoning money out of the public trough that was ear-marked for indigenous housing and so on. -Many of whom have been linked with one another for years, united in their agreement that they have a right to fleece the taxpayer.

I'd like to see a see a few good detectives map out the contacts and shared interests among the various individuals and organisations that have been stirring the possum since the government changed. Follow the public dollar!

Tony Abbott is a good family man who keeps fit and involves himself in community service and charity. I wonder if anything like that can be said of his trenchant critics?

There are policy issues that I would criticise his administration for, such as insufficient support for trade training. I would like to see fewer migrants and more with strong trade skills too.

Where they fluffed it was with that Budget. It is simply not good enough to take short-cuts. However it was not Tony Abbott alone who framed that Budget and those whining backbenchers should have been contributing back then and now instead of coasting and counting their travelling allowances.
Posted by onthebeach, Saturday, 28 February 2015 9:40:12 PM
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Dear ConservativeHippie,

The Macquarie Dictionary is very selective about
the words it chooses.

You suggested adding - "Ju-liar," to the list.
That meme was only used by Alan Jones and others
of his ilk, so as the Scots would say -
"Aye hae ma doots," that it would be acceptable.

As for "Poirotism?"
"Talk Like Poirot" Day, is coming up with Mr Suchet judging.
I'll let you know where you can buy the tickets. ;-)

Cheers.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 28 February 2015 10:02:47 PM
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This discussion for me - has now run its
course. I'd like to Thank all who took the
time to chare their thoughts on this issue
and finally leave a last link written by
Barrie Cassidy with a few random thoughts.

I look forward to our next discussion.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-27/cassidy-a-pre-budget-spill-on-the-cards/6266868
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 1 March 2015 10:10:55 AM
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Q: Should Professor Gillian Triggs - President of the HR Commission resign?

A: No.
Posted by tomw, Friday, 6 March 2015 4:41:05 PM
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Gee that's such a profound, and enlightening series of questions TOMW, a philosopher no less, perhaps ?
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 6 March 2015 7:42:26 PM
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