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The Forum > General Discussion > Christmas - It's all a bit rich isn't it?

Christmas - It's all a bit rich isn't it?

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Rich households are more likely to receive unwanted Christmas presents than poor households in Australia. 68% of households with incomes over $70,000 discard at least one Christmas present per person, compared to 38% for households with income less than $30,000.

Money from these rich household's wasted gifts would be better going to charity. There is also the environmental damage from Christmas. For example:

Each year, 50 million Christmas trees, purchased in the U.S with 30 million going to landfill, 2.65 billion Christmas cards sold in the U.S, with 200,000 trees cut down to make holiday cards. Wrapping paper and shopping bags in the U.S with 4 million tons of "trash" per year and 38,000 miles of ribbon used. It's toxifying the planet.

Then there's the hypocritical atheists who celebrate Christmas - "telling" children about Father Christmas and department stores charging $40.00 to have a photograph with Santa Claus: Adelaidenow website: "The (Magic Cave) has become a “cash grab” for David Jones, saying the company just wants parents to pay a $40 fee for a photo with Father Christmas."

It's all a bit rich isn't it? What ever happened to Christianity?
Posted by NathanJ, Monday, 24 November 2014 10:36:28 AM
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Nathan asked; Whatever happened to Christianity? Some years back we nailed it to the cross, that took care of that little problem. The thing with Jesus was he's the wrong kind of PROFIT!
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 6:23:28 AM
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Too easy fellas, you just wallow in your meanness and misery, while everyone else enjoys the special joy of spending time with family, friends and community. Oh, and reaffirming our faith and hope for a peaceful world with good tidings to all.

I always think of the isolated and the ill at Xmas. Illness can easily set sufferers apart from society. We must care for them. Be with them, too easy and really valued.

Anyhow, some good will come of this wretched thread because I am off today on two missions, first to visit an aged relative and later to fill the trolley with heaps of mixed fruit, spices and so on to make my famous steamed Xmas puddings and plenty of them. It will be a production line and with welcome family help. Got the music,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDpWkBi-cr4&list=RDRDpWkBi-cr4#t=27

Remember to donate those food and presents packages you good people and try to set some time aside to notice and spend some time with those who for whatever reason are without loved ones that care about them.
Posted by onthebeach, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 7:37:12 AM
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Is this a typo or a phenomenal over exaggeration - "2.65 billion Christmas cards sold in the U.S"? That's approximately 1000 cards per person.

The celebration of Christmas has evolved and mutated over the past 100+ years. It is what it is, like it or not. For many the celebration of the birth of Christ is still the main focus whilst for others its simply a chance of sharing the joy and magic of a child waiting for Santa's visit, or chance to be with their family. Sure its also one gigantic materialistic over commercialise holiday, but who cares.

Let this one ride, let people celebrate the way they want for whatever reasons they have, and just try to be happy for those that are into it.

And as OTB said above - perhaps take the opportunity to do some good for someone else rather than criticise and complain. No one likes a Scrooge.
Posted by ConservativeHippie, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 8:42:55 AM
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Ahem...

>>Is this a typo or a phenomenal over exaggeration - "2.65 billion Christmas cards sold in the U.S"? That's approximately 1000 cards per person<<

I suggest you have another go at the calculator, ConservativeHippie.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 9:24:32 AM
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I was not aware that in Australia anyone was forcing people to buy/not to buy, celebrate/not celebrate Christmas. It can bring the worse greed out of people but no more than the fools that spend billions in space projects while millions starve. Generally I have found many giving to others at Christmas time more than at other times.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 9:32:28 AM
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In terms of the reference to cards, the 2.65 billion Christmas cards sold each year in the U.S. could fill a football field 10 stories high. If we each sent one card less, we’d save 50,000 cubic yards of paper. This came from: http://bgm.stanford.edu/pssi_faq_holiday_waste

Christmas has very much become far too commercial. For nearly everyone in the western world and for the rich and elite end of town. That is why I feel upper class households SHOULD NOT be getting rid of at least one present at Christmas as they do at present.

This is extremely selfish, when these people should be giving to charities at Christmas time and supporting the poor - even overseas, who are going without, suffering and starving. Poor people overseas don't get a Christmas turkey or even a Christmas pudding.

As for the atheists who like celebrate Christmas - "telling" children about Father Christmas - how can these adults question what many see as the truth of Christianity, but then tell children about Santa, when people see Santa as a very well "dressed up" character?

It's all very well to see "Christmas" as a happy time in Australia, but I think its time we consider going to church at Christmas and get the balance right between family and the many basic points of Christmas itself - and not just see it about presents and plastic Christmas decorations.
Posted by NathanJ, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 9:51:54 AM
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Nathan,

"Christmas has very much become far too commercial...."

Western life is "commercial" - why would Christmas not reflect that?

"This is extremely selfish, when these people should be giving to charities at Christmas time and supporting the poor - even overseas, who are going without, suffering and starving. Poor people overseas don't get a Christmas turkey or even a Christmas pudding."

Ditto

It's merely the normal Western pattern of material extravagance, consumption and waste ratcheted up to a frenzy during Christmas.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 10:02:41 AM
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Do not credit Christmas to the Christians.

They do no good out of the goodness of their hearts.

They do so with the sole intent of increasing their flock.
Posted by ponde, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 11:20:34 AM
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'They do no good out of the goodness of their hearts.'

we know Ponde it is only you that does things out of the 'goodness ' of your heart. Congratulations!
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 11:43:26 AM
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Oops - I read it as 265 Billion, missed the decimal point completely.

Usually I'm pretty good at math.

Sorry Nathan
Posted by ConservativeHippie, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 11:44:23 AM
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We use the secret Santa system, so just one present for adults in the family, & usually something they are known to want, & would buy themselves. Lots of little dollar or two dollar things for the little kids. Their fun is unwrapping stuff, not playing with it.

You know, I'm about charitied right out. I am totally sick to death of being asked to give to some charity that pays hundreds of thousands a year to it's CEO.

I am sick to death of being asked to give to welfare recipients with a few kids, who have damn near the average income, when all the handouts & subsidies are added up.

It is about time some people got a life, & stopped whinging.

Oh, & before the peanut gallery start, I live like a king on $22,000 a year, & I'm damned if I am going to give any of it to the dole bludging family of 5 adults & 4 kids down the road, getting $100,000 a year in handouts.

NathanJ you obviously need to feel superior to others, so happy to help, you obviously need help.
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 11:45:28 AM
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Oh dear. It is a common sight at this time of year - a Christian bemoaning the fact that Christmas isn't Christmas any more...

>>It's all a bit rich isn't it? What ever happened to Christianity?<<

It never actually occurs to these people to question whether Christianity actually ever had anything to do with the celebration of Christmas - because frankly, it doesn't.

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm

"Christians had little success, however, refining the practices of Saturnalia. As Stephen Nissenbaum, professor history at the University of Massachussetts, Amherst, writes, 'In return for ensuring massive observance of the anniversary of the Savior’s birth by assigning it to this resonant date, the Church for its part tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been.' The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, sexual indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc."

Which rather puts NathanJ's harrumphing about the venality of today's celebrations into context, does it not...
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 4:32:57 PM
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I usually put presents or donate food (under the special Christmas trees set up) to support less well off families at Christmas time (or give to a local charity) that supports people at Christmas.

However when I read details about rich people essentially throwing away Christmas gifts, like putting out the rubbish each week I was appalled. I didn't think the figures were this high in Australia - in fact I'd never even thought about this issue in principle.

I thought we were supposed to be "the lucky country", and I do believe at least once per year we should support others - and Christmas is the best time to do this in my view.

Look at job cuts across the board that occur, like in the car manufacturing industry (this year) and also just recently at the ABC - leaving people thinking, what do I do this year at Christmas?

I don't want people living off excessive welfare payments or constantly complaining in Australia - but what about people overseas in absolute poverty and starvation, or those people eating at homeless shelters on Christmas Day, whilst the elitist end of town enjoy themselves, throw away their Christmas gifts, like a piece of rubbish and sipping out of their glass of expensive champagne?
Posted by NathanJ, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 4:43:16 PM
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Nathan,

My question again....why only bemoan all this in the case of Christmas when it's a year round phenomenon?

We are a fortunate and wasteful society. How much edible food gets thrown out in the West each year?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-08/food-waste-value-australia/4993930

"Australians might love a good meal – but if you believe the claims of FoodWise, a national campaign run by not-for-profit group DoSomething, the amount we throw away is staggering. "Aussies throw out $8 billion worth of edible food every year," it says."

"The claim:

The FoodWise campaign says Australians throw out $8 billion worth of edible food every year.

The verdict:

Based on the available research, the claim stacks up. But the $8 billion only relates to household food waste. The total value of food waste in Australia would far exceed this figure."
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 5:10:17 PM
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Hi ONTHEBEACH...

You're a good man you know, with you philanthropic attitude, and your sense of 'helping' for those who need it. I also appreciate much of HASBEEN'S attitude. I reckon a few charities should have the Fraud Squad give 'em all a good going over too ? Still this is neither the venue, nor the Topic for such a discussion ?

I think the three of us are from the same generation, therefore we mightn't agree in isolation on some things, it's the big picture however, that we're of one ? It's for this reason we can't always appreciate the more contemporary difficulties and nuances that plague younger generations of today ? For this reason there are many others, who might perceive the three of us, as being 'hardliners' and quite unsympathetic to many of their problems and their causes ?

Anyway, I hope you get the full emotional 'rush' from all your altruistic endeavours, and personal munificence ONTHEBEACH, you sure do deserve it. Though I suspect there are a few of your more fortunate beneficiaries who most assuredly, deserve nothing ! And our mutual friend HASBEEN, who is probably just as benevolent also, in his own inimitable way ? Even though he'd probably deny it most vocally and fervently, still that's him ?

Good on you mate !
Posted by o sung wu, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 5:16:34 PM
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In terms of OzHarvest, I don't any credibility for this group at all. It's a heavily financed, welfare body. I credit smaller groups, with a lot of volunteers. One only has to go the following site re the Adelaide Festival of Ideas:

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/more-than-10-items-or-less8217-campaign-has-a-little-shop-of-rotting-food-to-show-how-much-we-waste/story-fni6uo1m-1226741283344

A fruit, vegetable and produce shop was set up. At first I thought it was real, but I found it out to be a 'tacky and disgusting' waste of food project linking to the festival - re food wastage. It was set up to have rotting food in it. Oz Harvest said:

"Ronni Kahn, CEO of food-rescue charity OzHarvest has described the campaign as "daring". No doubt it will shock people and demonstrate the reality of how much food Australian households waste each year. We must change our eating and shopping habits to ensure good food doesn't go to waste."

I put a protest sign on the shop windows. Project a disgusting waste of food... Portrayed fruits and vegetables in a poor light... What about poor countries.... Show the insides of a meat works? (being vegetarian). The signs were very conveniently pulled down - being a festival of ideas? It was a sign of elitism - and this is where I believe Christmas needs to be less materialistic and more back to basics - as much as possible.
Posted by NathanJ, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 5:51:32 PM
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Hello,

Just to explain the above further (re the fruit and vegetable shop I protested about) - fresh products were put in the shop and they were allowed to rot and go mouldy - so people could see the end result.

This is where I was disgusted with the comments from OzHarvest - a group supposed to be about serving and saving fresh, quality food to go to others. Why would a body that supports saving food, back a project like this if their principle isn't about wasting food?

To me that was 100% disgusting.
Posted by NathanJ, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 5:59:21 PM
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Hasbeen,

It's not easy being a dole bludger, it requires time and effort.

I tried to be one but I was a failure, I kept getting employment.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 7:36:33 PM
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A good deal of false piety from some. The I give to the poor at Christmas mob, please! If all the Xmas cards were laid end to end you would have a bloody long line, so what. Santa Claus was invented in the 19th century, so what. The holiday was a pagan thing and the Christians pinched it off the pagans, bad luck for the pagans. Don't know on what day Christ was born but highly unlikely it was December 25th 1AD Merry Christmas and a happy New Year!
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 7:49:42 PM
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Hassy, we don't always agree. On this I concur there is no reason why you on $22k should be expected to support 'welfare for lifers'. I am a strong believer in sustainability, on the other hand there are the genuine who do need our support, not that an income of $22k should be supporting others. Some sections of the welfare system now, are simply not sustainable. Agree?
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 8:42:24 AM
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Nathan, its obvious your heart is in the right place but sometimes you let small things wind you up and then you over react. (eg putting protest notes on the shop windows)

In regard to the your objections over the fruit shop allowing a few veggies and fruits to rot; you are not accepting the big picture. The aim was to enlighten people to the amount of good food rotting away that could have fed hungry people. Its not much different than showing photos of an abattoir to awaken meat eaters to the whole process. Sacrificing a basket of veggies is not really that bad or a reason to feel disgust and indignation. Relax.

You've said: "I believe Christmas needs to be less materialistic and more back to basics - as much as possible." That ain't ever gonna happen; just let it go. You can stress over it all you want but its completely out of your sphere of influence to change, so your only choice for peace of mind is to accept it. You don't have to like it but thinking about it, complaining about, worrying about it, talking about it will only create unnecessary stress in your life.
Posted by ConservativeHippie, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 10:41:41 AM
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About eight months after Jewish people pause to celebrate Passover, Christians mark one of their holiest periods with the festival of Turnover with the arrival of Saint Nicholas and a period of traditional gluttony and avarice.

According to the retailers, it's reached to the stage where our economic system now relies on it and the more self-indulgent we are, the better off we'll all be.
Posted by wobbles, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 3:06:29 PM
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Hi Is Mise, I know exactly what you mean.

I was in the Whitsundays on my yacht. I really did have to get some work done on the thing, she'd done a lot of miles since I'd restored her. I had done some work for 3 of the island resorts, & a couple of the mainland cruise boat companies.

I finished a job, & was anchored at Airlie Beach, having bought materials for the yacht, when a boat tooted from behind. It was the 60 footer from one of the islands. I was suspicious when they invited me over for a beer.

They wanted me to do a couple of days a week for them. Just a bit of boat skippering they said. I could live on the yacht & use all the resort facilities, including their workshop when not working. Sounded great.

I arrived, did 29 days straight, had one day off, did 36 days straight, & quit.

I went to Bowen where I thought no one knew me, to do my work. I got 5 weeks in, including a couple on the slip. It was up there when someone found me, & I was back at work a few days later.

Still, isn't it nice to be wanted, better than the other thing.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 5:28:01 PM
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