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The Forum > General Discussion > UNSW branded 'elitist' for setting ATAR benchmark of 80

UNSW branded 'elitist' for setting ATAR benchmark of 80

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Numerous studies have shown that there is little
or no relationship between educational achievement
and job performance or productivity. For example,
good grades in a graduate school of medicine or
education are poor predictors or whether someone
will become a good doctor or teacher.

The fact is that the skills required to get an A grade
or a High Distinction in a university course on
anatomy or educational philosophy are not the same as
the skills needed to deal with a medical emergency or an
unruly junior high school class. Most people pick up the
necessary skills on the job, not in the classroom, and
the characteristics that make for a successful career
(such as initiative, leadership, drive, negotiating ability,
willingness to take risks, and persuasiveness) are not taught
in the universities. It seems that the universities produce
graduates with any number of educational credentials but
with few specifically job-related skills.

In fact, many people never put the specific content of their
tertiary education to direct use in their jobs, and many
of the country's graduates actually work in fields they
consider unrelated to their major subjects.

On the whole, however, a higher credential means higher
earnings, simply because of the value the job markets places
on it.
Posted by Lexi, Monday, 22 July 2013 2:02:44 PM
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Ignoring the clever use of 'prolixitive' Paul1405, or not comprehending it?

"...maybe next time I'll take them with water. what do ya think?" Really doesn't matter. Next time, just take them out of the foil packet before ingress.

Houellebecq, the NUS has no motive to improve the 'quality' of tertiary students but they certainly have an interest in increasing the number of them (which interestingly is the opposite of what Hilmer was saying in the article http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/unsw-branded-elitist-for-setting-atar-benchmark-of-80-20130719-2q8v0.html).

Of course, the NUS attitude may change if students become too dim to know how to pay the union fees.
Posted by WmTrevor, Monday, 22 July 2013 2:11:49 PM
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david f, I heard the position was left vacant following the tragic accidents of the applicants not aiming high enough.
Posted by WmTrevor, Monday, 22 July 2013 2:17:22 PM
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Dear Houelle,

Please excuse me for not engaging at this time with your typical brand of nasty, bilious trolling and instead deal with points pertinent to the issue.

You wrote;

“I find it a ridiculous exercise to attempt to level out ATAR scores, sabotaging your measurement criteria to fit an agenda.”

My 'agenda' is a fair go for all Australian kids, many of whom will have a potential place at university snatched up by what are essentially queue jumpers. What is yours?

I have no problems with the more wealthy paying for a full fee paying place for their child at university. What I object to is my taxes subsidising a government supported place for those who are there only because of a large amount of money was spent to thrust them up the queue.

I think it is entirely in keeping with that notion of a fair go that disadvantage is not the major determinate of a kid's chance to access a university place made possible from the common weal. I am fully supportive of measures designed to achieve this objective.

Only a mean-spiritedness, not in keeping with the ethos that grew this nation, would want anything different.

Gees, now I'm doing it.
Posted by csteele, Monday, 22 July 2013 2:22:26 PM
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'I am fully supportive of measures designed to achieve this objective.'

As am I. I think we actually want the same thing csteele. We disagree on the measures. I want to identify problems in the education well before university age.

Sorry you didn't take the bait so much as I would have liked though.

I am a proponent of a fully public system, or a system that barely pays lip service to supporting private schools. I would be happy to bear the increased costs as they line up with my ideals. Wherever we can ensure children at least start on equal footing it is worth the investment. Tertiary education is another matter entirely. It should be elite by design, not par for the course for any passingly functional middle class kid.

If you reject the governments school system, suit yourself, but you can bloody well pay for whatever alternative arrangements you come up with. A fully public system is the only way to ensure that each child gets equal opportunity to quality education, as the involved, eloquent, politically powered richer parents without drug dependencies keep the bastards honest, and their children allow a critical mass of students not in the business of totally sabotaging the learning environment.

I agree with an egalitarian education system, but I believe that life is about passing tests, not special treatment for sob stories. I don't believe in assessment based measures, I believe the learning process should allow for mistakes, but by the time the test comes, you should objectively show you have attained the required level of understanding and competency.

I believe there should be a standard that is to be achieved to attain the privilege for the community to fund a high level of education for a citizen. If too many citizens from any demographic fail to pass that is a different issue.
Posted by Houellebecq, Monday, 22 July 2013 2:40:47 PM
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I think on the whole it is all the fault of business. See the trick is to get the government to educate the employees to move the cost away from business.

So, the butcher doesn't take apprentices, he expects the tax payer to pay for a university trained 'meat scientist', all the while he claims his degree educated employees cost too much to pay, and claims his Porsche, hookers and Christmas party as tax deductions.

It's all ok though, as he's doing us all a favor by employing people at minimum wage.

Everything is a 'cost on business', will, 'increase unemployment', or is just basically an impost on the 'entrepreneur' to rip us off blindly.

Still, it's a true test of intelligence to work the system like that. The galling thing for me is the doin' us a favour bit. Just ask rehctub.

We'll all be rooned if we go back to TAFE and training on the job, with University left for the really intelligent people that invent things, rather than OH&S managers.
Posted by Houellebecq, Monday, 22 July 2013 3:11:12 PM
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