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The Forum > General Discussion > Do we buy Gold?

Do we buy Gold?

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People like Max Keiser are saying that next year the really big financial collapse will happen.The US Fed is on QE3 and like Europe will be open ended.

In the Great Depression of 1933 gold was $ 33 per oz with average wages of $1550 per annum.This is 44 times averge wages back then.44 x $33 = $1452 The price of gold today is $1720 per oz or 18.5% more than the 1930's.However we've never had such a bloated derivative market which is 10 times the GDP of the planet.

If all the gold in the world was divided up equally among all the people they say it would amount to about $1300 per person.It is a risk buying it because of these record levels but total monetary collapse may see it go to Keiser's predictions of $7000 per oz.

Can you work out how Max Keiser arrived at the figure of $ 7000 per oz? I've just worked it out.
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 14 October 2012 8:21:10 AM
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I think you are mad if you don't.

However only buy the real stuff, & carry it yourself to your place of storage, [a small hole holds a lot of gold], as I gather that some of those who sell it to you & store it for you, have sold a lot more gold than they have.

My research suggests about 50% more gold has been sold, with a paper certificate to prove it's yours, than actually exists.
Posted by Hasbeen, Sunday, 14 October 2012 12:34:47 PM
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So what is the difference, selling gold that doesn't exist, or selling 2020 bonds.
Posted by 579, Sunday, 14 October 2012 1:06:25 PM
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Hasbeen I find it interesting that you know more gold has been sold than is owned.
Arjay, without doubt is aware of that too.
ALL the worlds gold would not form a very big hill.
IF next year is the year, one day it will come.
It will be a constructed depression.
Not joking evidence exists to prove every one was.
I intend, if alive, to be OK growing enough food to feed me and many others.
Owe not a cent, my super will remain invested, if it is lost so be it.
BUT after? maybe more likely during the crash, when ever it comes we all have a new system of finances and who knows what, imposed on us.
In reality we do now, wealth rules always.
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 14 October 2012 3:00:41 PM
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579,you missed the point.Hasbeen said you have to take physical control of it yourself then you don't get ripped off.

Our Govt in 1959 passed laws that allows them to confiscate gold from individuals if deemed necessary in the national interest.They will pay you a price they deem is the market value.The same laws exist in the USA.

The Royal Mint in Perth I've read,does not let you take physical possession of the gold but just issues certificates.Can someone confirm or deny this assertion?

Modern banking evolved from Goldsmiths issueing certificates for gold in lieu of people carrying around real gold which was heavy and dangerous for the owner.So the goldsmiths realised that everyone would not want their gold all at once and started issueing more certificates for gold than they had in their possession.This was the initiation of the modern banking system in which fiat money has totally taken over.

Hasbeen have you worked out how Max Keiser arrived at $7,000 per oz?
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 14 October 2012 3:25:55 PM
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Actually in my first calculation I should have compared the price of gold today to our average wages.Gold = $1720 per oz and average wages here are 62,000 pa.62,000 divided by 1720 = 36. Great Depression 1550 divided by 33 = 46.96. Gold in real terms has not reached 1930's levels.

Hasbeen there are many other factors like Gold production and the amount of gold that actually exists.No one knows for sure.143,000 tonnes is supposed to exist.
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 14 October 2012 4:58:20 PM
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http://www.perthmint.com.au/metalprices_bullion_coins_and_bars_buying_selling.aspx

Sounds like they will have it delivered to you via armoured carrier,
Arjay. So you can hide it under the bed, ready for when thieves
rob the house :)
Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 14 October 2012 11:09:57 PM
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At last, Arjay, some evidence that you actually do some research.

>>Actually in my first calculation I should have compared the price of gold today to our average wages.<<

So you have worked out that today's gold price is very little different, in purchasing power terms, that it was in the 1930s. And over the long term, I expect that it will continue to keep pace - in which case you can expect the gold price to reach $7,000 around about the time the average wage reaches $250,000. Give or take a bit.

The prediction that gold will reach $7,000 has been made by a few people, but with little credibility. James Rickards did, in June.

http://survivalistinvestor.com/date/2012/06

“My long-run thesis on gold hasn’t changed,” Rickards said. “I do see it in the $5,000-$7,000 range over a kinda three-to-five-year period as confidence in paper money begins to collapse. But that’s not something that happens overnight.""

Two years before, Egon von Gruyerz made the same "prediction".

http://www.cnbc.com/id/37550457/Gold_s_Real_Move_to_7_000_Coming_Asset_Manager

"'Adjusted for real inflation (as per shadowstats.com) the 1980 gold peak in today’s prices corresponds to around $7,200 today. So gold could easily go up 6 times from the current price of $1,220 and still be within normal parameters,' von Gruyerz's latest report for GoldSwitzerland.com said."

Of course, he would say that - he is after all the "founder of precious metals investment and storage company GoldSwitzerland.com"

No bias there, then. Note how he picked a peak price from which to draw his "conclusion". Pretty transparent.

As I have said to one under god on any number of occasions, there is no significant downside to buying gold, except that you have to sell it again in order to release its value. If you had bought at $33 and sold at $1,720 you would have kept pace with wage inflation, plus a little profit to make up for having tied up your capital for eighty years.

In the end, gold is just another commodity, to buy and sell. All the rest is hype.
Posted by Pericles, Sunday, 14 October 2012 11:31:52 PM
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arjay however is right!
Took a breath but it is true, gold was lent out by people who never had it to lend, not much different than money today.
An interesting thing to think about.
As for predictions?, many predict the bottom will fall out of the world economy and soon.
But some predicted Silver would be twice the price of gold by now.
You can not eat either.
And if we all stop spending and pay debt? we bring the prediction to a reality.
A crash will let debt be unpaid and after a time, let us begin the whole scramble for riches start again,until next time.
Posted by Belly, Monday, 15 October 2012 4:34:43 AM
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Belly makes a good point.If everyone buys gold that means there will be less money circulating in our economy and thus less investment and employment.Gold is only an hedge against the illegal money printing of our private central banks.

Pericles might like to tell us where the $16 trillion in off balance sheet money creation by the Federal Res went in 2008-2009.The real economy in the USA didn't get a boost.As Keiser notes the big boys club are using this money to steal real assets.

I think Keiser got $7000 + per oz by dividing the world GDP by it's population.ie 60 trillion divided by 7 billion = $ 8,571.0
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 15 October 2012 6:20:50 AM
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No, Arjay, Max Keiser tells us exactly where that figure came from in his blog posted on 27 April 2012:

"In one of the highest predictions yet made by an investment bank analyst, Bank of America’s MacNeil Curry sees gold prices hitting $7000/oz before ending the uptrend.

[and links to the article]

http://www.commodityonline.com/news/gold-to-hit-$7000oz-bank-of-america-47690-3-47691.html

According to MacNeil, commodity bull markets end with a massive speculative blow off and they don’t end quietly. If gold was topping out, the daily ranges would have span around $200/oz and we have not seen anything like it.

“Until we see price action take some kind of massive speculative blow-off, where prices effectively double in a year or less, I have to maintain a long-term bullish bias. That says to me, we’ll probably see a move in gold, before all is said and done, to between $3,000 to $5,000 (per ounce) and potentially $7,000 per ounce”, Economic Times quotes the analyst from the Market Technicians Association symposium last week.""

And for your benefit here is the original 25 April article referred to in Keiser's blog's link (a bit of pass-the-parcel going on):

http://www.economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/12860204.cms

The calculations were made "Using Elliott Wave counts on a logarithmic chart dating back to 1969..."
Posted by WmTrevor, Monday, 15 October 2012 8:21:25 AM
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we buy gold because we have to balance the investment basket
im poor so i invest in silver gopper nickle [mainly in coin..cause it has rarety price over the metal value..

what people miss is that most 'investers'..in gold dont got the gold

BUT ITS NOT JUST GOLD
http://public.worldfreemansociety.org/index.php/forum/43-general-discussion/109836-you-don-t-own-what-you-think-you-own
Posted by one under god, Monday, 15 October 2012 8:56:53 AM
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u Don’t Own What You Think You Own

The Burning Platform

If you own stocks or bonds or any investment through a broker, you don’t really own those investments. They are pooled and if the broker goes under, you’re shi@t out of luck.

Not only don’t you own the investments you bought with your own money, but your broker has pledged those assets many times over.

The Casey Report has a jaw dropping interview with hedge fund manager David Webb, who reveals the truth about our financial system. The conclusion is that your owners don’t give a fu about you.

They have your money and they want more.
And they will get it.

Here are a few choice quotes from the interview:


“It took me some years to uncover the basis for how this has changed. It all arises from a revision of the Uniform Commercial Code, Article 8, in 1994.

This article governs securities “ownership.” When they did this revision in 1994, they created a completely new legal concept called a “security entitlement,” which means that a security is now a contractual claim rather than property.

That’s the key, and it’s hugely important because a contractual claim in a bankruptcy proceeding has very little standing. So even though there are records that a particular security is your property, it’s really not. If your broker goes bankrupt, those securities, by law, become part of the bankruptcy estate.

As a client, you cannot revindicate those securities in a bankruptcy. Of course, secured creditors have a higher priority to the assets of the bankruptcy estate than you do. So you’re left with an inferior claim to what you thought was your own property.”
Posted by one under god, Monday, 15 October 2012 8:59:37 AM
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“But it gets worse.

All of the securities are pooled – there is no specific identification of who owns what. By law, in a bankruptcy, the losses must be shared pro rata across the client pool.

>>So even if a client somehow manages to get a legal assurance that their securities are not being hypothecated, they are still in a pool where other clients have margin accounts and their securities are being hypothecated.

*Hypothecation is when a firm pledges a clients’ assets as collateral to another party. The securities firm is allowed to use the client assets as collateral for its own proprietary trading. In my book, that’s fraud. But it is perfectly legal.

So the securities firm borrows the security on the assumption that it will return like securities to the pool. But, of course, when an insolvency occurs, the music stops and those securities are not returned.

The firm that received those securities as collateral is a secured creditor, and if there is a bankruptcy, >>they take those assets – the assets you thought you owned – and immediately sell them.

They are gone. And you’re left as an unsecured creditor, which means you get what’s left over at the end, if anything.

Further, in 2005, the Bush administration rewrote the bankruptcy law. There used to be a concept of “fraudulent conveyance,” which meant that if a firm transferred assets to a secured creditor within six months before its bankruptcy filing, the receiver was required by law to give those assets back.
\
It’s called a clawback.

continues
Posted by one under god, Monday, 15 October 2012 9:01:53 AM
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But this revision of the bankruptcy law changed that. The law now specifically says that the receiver is not to claw back the assets. So what was considered a fraudulent conveyance prior to 2005 is now legal. This is very similar to what happened with MF Global and their transfer of client assets to JPMorgan. But it was not considered fraud. Everything was done according to the law.”

“One set of assets can be used as collateral multiple times, which is called rehypothecation. So a securities firm gives client assets to a secured creditor as collateral for proprietary trading. The secured creditor can then turn around and use those same assets as collateral for their own proprietary trading.

>>So those assets are passed on to another firm as collateral, and so on. This is the chain of hypothecation and rehypothecation; the same assets are used as collateral over and over again.

>> I can’t stress this next part enough – it’s very, very important. There are about $700 trillion of derivatives worldwide in a $70 trillion economy. It’s pretty easy to see that there cannot possibly be enough collateral backing. The entire financial asset base of the public is being used as collateral. !

This is a huge risk that everyone bears, whether they know it or not. If we have a major failure anywhere in that collateral chain, the collateral is pulled out and cannot be returned to the pool.”

When the collapse ensues, they will take your money. Laws won’t matter. Justice won’t matter. Fairness won’t matter. You won’t matter. They want it all.

http://poorrichards-blog.blogspot.fr/2012/10/you-dont-own-what-you-think-you-own.html[/quote]
Posted by one under god, Monday, 15 October 2012 9:02:35 AM
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Good post OUG.It is one almighty mess.You can write proper.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 15 October 2012 10:48:15 AM
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Think I best consider selling some of the vegys, say 1o grams of gold for a cabbage and some spuds?
Nah rather die than swim that river, free food at Belly,s if you need it bring a shovel.
Need to plant twice as much as we eat, is that inflation?
Posted by Belly, Monday, 15 October 2012 11:20:54 AM
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I also have thought along these lines.
The proposition here is to buy gold because currency is not trusted.
Trouble with gold is that to use its value you have to sell all or
part of it. Be careful to catch the saw squawf.
The catch is, will there be suitable money, or alternatively long life food ?
The worry about gold is because we have reached "The End of Growth".
It is the basic cause of the US and European troubles.
Google it.

Actually Belly has the right idea.
Buy arable land, grow veggies and trade the surplus for different food
or for services.

If we had taken note of Hubbard and others some 20 or 50 years ago we
would not be in this predicament.
We now do not have enough time to avoid the likely crash.

However the "End of Growth" times may well be modified if we can
generate a surplus of electricity.
This would mean we would have to generate about four times the amount
of electricity we now generate. Quite a task !

Look, this is the way it will be;
Everything will become local because of cost and/or availability of fuel.
Manufacturing will also be local, except for compact high value goods.

PS UOG, why don't you write like that all the time.
I could then read what you send instead of giving up or not bothering.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 15 October 2012 12:18:21 PM
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UOG said;
If you own stocks or bonds or any investment through a broker, you
don’t really own those investments. They are pooled and if the broker
goes under, you’re shi@t out of luck.

I don't think this correct for shares as the shareholder records do not
belong to the broker but the company.
With company bonds, it depends on whether the company has the funds to
repay the holder.
The same applies to government bonds, as the holders of Greek and
Spanish bonds have now discovered.
Anyone here foolish enough to own Australian Government bonds ?
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 15 October 2012 12:26:22 PM
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While it is true that gold does seem to simply hold its value against currency in the long term, it is not the case in times of trouble.

I would not have wanted much confederate money after the US civil war, or much Jap currency after WW11.

In times of turmoil I have seen it spike to extreme heights a number of times, & I have a feeling such times are coming again soon.

Add to that the amount of money printing going on in the US & now Europe, & any money we are holding being devalued by the day. I am not prepared to do enough research to be sure where to put what little I have, but I sure don't want it in super, where it is at the mercy of the share market. Never did have any super anyway.

I think a mixture of cash at 30 day call, & the yellow stuff is the best idea right now. Interest rates are now so low as to be not worth the minor risk of access being frozen, to my mind.

Belly, I don't think the straight yellow stuff is a very good fertilizer, but a few ounces planted with the cabbage seeds is a good insurance policy I think.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 15 October 2012 12:58:12 PM
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Everyone is bailing out to $ US and when hyper-inflation hits, interest rates will rise.With fear and little demand unemployment rises.This is called stag-flation which is very difficult stop because of fear which stops consumption.

Right now rates have dropped but people are not buying.With virtually no manufacturing we don't have much in the way of real jobs outside the service,building and retail sector.When fear sets in and people lose faith,no amount of rate cuts will revive our economy.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 15 October 2012 1:21:28 PM
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*When fear sets in and people lose faith,no amount of rate cuts will revive our economy.*

That's ok Arjay, for no matter what, I reckon you will still want to
eat. I will certainly consider taking payment of gold bars for your
food :)
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 15 October 2012 1:44:28 PM
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FOOD..you want MORE FOOD
well stuff ya

http://www.naturalnews.com/035688_Monsanto_honey_bees_colony_collapse.html

what ya going to hand fertilise ya seeds
or buy them from satantos?

they own food..if your food got their genes
you will b e sued.,.

so yeah grow ya own food
while ya can..[gmo seed causes sterility/cancer 3 rd generation

yes your rich
but what else ya got

not peace
soon no food..become breatharian..no not that type of arian
lol

were not all crusading captalists
nor crony commies..nor fat cats..or shiela'

bah childish girls in politricks
not a pretty face in the lot of em
how come the [lets say homey not ugly]..seem to seek out
the things men like?

http://www.blacklistednews.com/Beginning_of_a_new_%E2%80%98Great_Game%E2%80%99_in_Afghanistan/21959/0/38/38/Y/M.html

http://12160.info/profiles/blogs/massive-u-s-air-assets-being-deployed-to-israel-in-the-next-10-da

http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/list-of-the-elite-that-run-the-federal-reserve/23469/

http://www.activistpost.com/2012/10/more-deaths-amounting-from-meningitis.html
Posted by one under god, Monday, 15 October 2012 2:25:31 PM
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Why is this complete and utter misconception still doing the rounds?

>>There are about $700 trillion of derivatives worldwide in a $70 trillion economy. It’s pretty easy to see that there cannot possibly be enough collateral backing.<<

Surely, it is so patently ridiculous that any normal person would instantly go "nah, that can't possibly be right", and go away and educate themselves on exactly why it cannot possibly be right.

As I have pointed out before, this is gonzo mathematics. Derivatives do not add themselves up to form one massive exposure.

It is akin to adding up all the bets placed on a horse race - say, $700 trillion, just for the sake of an example - and then telling the bookmaker that his exposure is $700 trillion. This would only be his exposure if all the horses won. But of course, they don't. There is only one winner. He pays out on that, and keeps the rest. (Note: I am aware that have simplified this a little. But the principle remains intact)

Why is this so incredibly difficult for some folk to understand?
Posted by Pericles, Monday, 15 October 2012 2:55:18 PM
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Pericles, thought you'd like this extract from the Casey Research web site about the author quoted above re that "There are about $700 trillion of derivatives worldwide in a $70 trillion economy. It’s pretty easy to see that there cannot possibly be enough collateral backing."

"David Webb is a Sweden-based hedge fund manager and founder of Origin Investments, AB. You may have never heard of him, but in the hedge fund world Webb is considered something of a phenomenon – thanks to his exceptional track record of using neutral long/short equity strategies to profit even through the most challenging markets, producing a cumulative return of 258% between September 1, 1998, and November 9, 2002, the period leading up to and including the dot-com crash. Discussing his performance after markets crashed following 9/11, the Hedge Funds Review said, "The recent terrorist attacks, which created the single worst week in the history of the US equity markets, didn't take David Webb out of his game. The US equity markets might appear to be in a state of endless free-fall, leaving ordinary investors with their incredibly shrinking portfolios, but don't expect to see a frown on the face of Webb. So far this year, Webb has seen the $1bn hedge fund that he manages gain a whopping 40%. And this comes on the heels of a 56% gain last year." David will be flying in from Sweden to discuss the paradigm collapse he sees ahead, and how to invest."

I'm not prepared to pay the $385 to get the Casey Research 2012 Summit MP3 downloads to verify the quotation (about rehypothecation I think) and its context - or lack thereof.

But Arjay and OUG taking the word of a hedge fund manager... mmmm?

That's reason enough for me to buy a lottery ticket. If I win I could even buy some gold. Though I think Platinum less volatile.
Posted by WmTrevor, Monday, 15 October 2012 4:48:37 PM
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Off subject yes, but you can grow enough food to feed three family's on 1000m2.
Including some fruit .
OUG my shares via super are not pooled.
But worthless if the bottom falls out.
My food crop however will feed me and others.
Posted by Belly, Monday, 15 October 2012 5:31:55 PM
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WmTrevor let's do the maths for poor Pericles.Divide $ 70 trillion by the world's pop of 7 billion.This means that every person on this planet should be worth $100,000.If the GDP of the planet is 70 billion and Pericles says that derivatives are a type of insurance,who would insure their assets for 10 times their worth.The premium would be astronomical and so it has become.

I note that the NAB is offering the best home loan rates.They have the greatest debt exposure via derivatives and are trying to suck in real assets via loans to sure up their derivative liability.I know that they borrowed at least $3 billion from the US Fed in 2008.

Barnaby Joyce says that our banks have a $15 trillion derivative exposure with $2.66 trillion in assets of which these are loans still being paid off on properties that are 40% over valued.

We have the perfect storm for and absolute collapse and total anarchy if we do not triage the derivatives from our real productive economy.That was the Glass Steagall Act that was instigated during the Great Depression of 1933 to stop all this theft.Bill Clinton removed this and thus we have the debacle of the present.

Pericles must stop being in denial.These international banksters have far too much power and they are the ones creating this whole crisis and pushing for war with China and Russia.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 15 October 2012 5:40:13 PM
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belly my point was monsanto
bought up over 90 %..of seed suppliers
their seeds only work with their chemicals..but the mutations the put into them..they own..if they find their genes in your food they wil take it..
http://12160.info/profiles/blog/show?id=2649739%3ABlogPost%3A1015624&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_post

but that 's later
http://activist-post-forum.947009.n3.nabble.com/Dental-Amalgam-Silver-Fillings-and-Cancer-Is-there-a-Connection-with-video-tp4025169.html
today

Dead or Dying: Killer Capitalism of Exploitation, Outsourcing, Retrenchments, Greed, War Profiteering.

What Kind of Company Do You Work For?
Growing Up: Creative Capitalism:
Progress and Prosperity, Teamwork, Stock Options, Profit Sharing.



By translating paper money into debt, primarily through war,
bankers have accumulated unspeakably vast fortunes, swindling governments and their citizens with high interest rates that have brought debt beyond anyone’s or any country’s ability to repay, ever.


Which means foreclosure or theft of a nation’s assets.

http://beforeitsnews.com/economy/2012/10/killer-capitalism-exploitation-outsourcing-retrenchments-greed-war-profiteering-creative-capitalism-progress-and-prosperity-teamwork-stock-options-profit-sharing-what-kind-of-company-do-you-2455936.html

or ,maybe tomorra
Massive COMEX Silver Withdrawal on Friday -
3.6 Million Ounces withdrawn from Brinks

http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/massive-comex-silver-withdrawal-on-friday-3-6-million-ounces-withdrawn-from-brinks/23599/

There was a massive silver withdrawal out of the Comex on Friday. Over the past week, there has been a steady increase in the total amount of silver in the Comex warehouses.

However, in one huge withdrawal, 3.6 MILLION OUNCES, a whopping 17% of Brinks total REGISTERED silver inventory was removed on Friday. I have not seen such a large withdrawal from the registered category for quite some time.
http://poorrichards-blog.blogspot.fr/2012/10/fiat-currency-and-emerging-police-state.html
Posted by one under god, Monday, 15 October 2012 5:48:09 PM
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Most Americans do not understand what “derivatives” are,
so they kind of tune out when people start talking about them.

But they are very important to understand.

Essentially, derivatives are “side bets”.
When you buy a derivative, you are not investing in anything. !

You are just gambling that something will or will not happen.

A Major “Derivatives Crisis” Is Coming,
http://investmentwatchblog.com/a-major-derivatives-crisis-is-coming-the-whole-world-would-be-thrown-into-a-state-of-chaos/
The Whole World Would Be Thrown Into A State of Chaos

why?
Another Obama Executive Order
Allows Seizure of Americans’ Bank Accounts



The latest executive order (EO) emanating from the White House October 9 now claims the power to freeze all bank accounts and stop any related financial transactions that a “sanctioned person” may own or try to perform —

all in the name of “Iran Sanctions.”

http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/13196-another-obama-executive-order-allows-seizure-of-americans%E2%80%99-bank-accounts

dont yas just love war
http://investmentwatchblog.com/it-is-no-coincidence-that-the-century-of-total-war-coincided-with-the-century-of-central-banking-ron-paul-end-the-fed/

morgan stanlies lies
http://www.businessinsider.com/morgan-stanley-weak-trade-and-declining-domestic-capex-point-to-weak-q4-gdp-2012-10#ixzz29Eco2yv8

plus of course the deneyal
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-13/greece-will-probably-leave-euro-within-six-months-borg-says-1-.html
http://mandelman.ml-implode.com/2012/10/no-surprise-arizona-court-rules-mortgage-settlement-funds-dont-have-to-help-homeowners/

http://xrepublic.tv/node/597
http://theautomaticearth.com/Finance/what-happens-when-the-core-starts-to-rot.html

pery hasnt heard of the 11 th mar-bell
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/11thmarble.php
Posted by one under god, Monday, 15 October 2012 5:55:29 PM
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Thanks WmTrevor. Those sites make fascinating reading, don't they.

>>Pericles, thought you'd like this extract from the Casey Research web site about the author quoted above...<<

It's all follow-my-leader, though, in the chase to extract multiple $395 "subscriptions" from the gullible public. They all rely on telling ever bigger fibs in order to attract their paying audience. Or marks, as I believe they are called in the fraud business.

It won't be long, I suspect, before that $700 trillion gets upgraded, because it simply isn't scary enough - ooops, it has already happened!

As the blogger "Davos" remarks, in an unsubstantiated aside...

"... by the way, the figures I’ve seen on OTC derivative market cap tough 1.6 quadrillion, not 700 trillion."

http://www.psychopathiceconomics.com/DavosEconomicForum/2012/10/14/you-do-not-own-your-stocks-hyptohication-rehypothication-drs-street-name-registration/

You read it here first. The next favourite number that Arjay and his mate one under god will be "quoting" will be in the quadrillions, not those petty little trillions.

What fascinates me most, though, is that not one single commentator who has jumped on the $700 trillion/$70 trillion doom'n'gloom bandwagon has attempted to give their impression on what might actually happen in real life, should their scenario of 10x overstretched assets "collapsing", actually come to pass.

Who will end up with the money? What will it be worth? What will they buy with it, and from whom?

One thing's for sure and certain. Sitting on a pile of gold is not going to help
Posted by Pericles, Monday, 15 October 2012 5:55:54 PM
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Are you referencing The Two Ronnies, Pericles? ...if memory serves it went something like:

Ronnie Corbett: Good evening! It's wonderful to be back with you again, isn't it, Ronnie?
Ronnie Barker: Indeed it is. And in a packed programme tonight, I shall be having a word with a man who goes in for meditation, because he thinks it's better than sitting around doing nothing.
Ronnie Corbett: And I'll be talking to a millionaire who explains what it's like having piles of gold. Uncomfortable.
Posted by WmTrevor, Monday, 15 October 2012 6:49:34 PM
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What Pericles and the international banksters do not realise is that real productive worth exists in all people on this planet and this corrupt system is destroying real people,thus eventually,the very parasites who are feeding off us.

Total anarchy is around the corner and most are in denial or blissfully ignorant.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 15 October 2012 6:57:41 PM
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I've suggested before, Arjay... if you want to stuff the banks the easiest way is to not borrow any money. And convince everyone else to do likewise.

As for, "WmTrevor let's do the maths for poor Pericles.Divide $ 70 trillion by the world's pop of 7 billion.This means that every person on this planet should be worth $100,000."

I tried doing the maths but I kept getting a net worth of $10,000.
Posted by WmTrevor, Monday, 15 October 2012 7:11:37 PM
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Wmtrevor if we stop borrowing then our economy will cease to function because our increases in productivity + inflation get expressed as debt by the private banking system.They have us by the balls.We are all in enormous debt thus need more debt to service debt.

This is why we need the RBA to create new money from nothing to counter the private banksters of the USA and Europe.Where do you think 700 trillion of derivative money came from? It was created from nothing by the private Federal Reserve,IMF and Bank of international Settelments.They own us by creating from nothing all the money that equals increases in our productivity + inflation.We are their debt bitches.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 15 October 2012 7:51:40 PM
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This very large derivative bomb I have read about several times.
There does seem to be some truth to it although I think the amount varies.

What has happened is that some of the more clued up financiers have
twigged to the end of growth and they now realise that they need to
get their wealth into different forms.

Belly & Pericles, you do not need your super to be in the share market
you can select to have your funds in cash investments such as fixed
deposits. I know that the HESTA super fund has that facility as my son
has his super in cash in that fund. I feel certain that most funds would have that facility.
If I were you I would move them before Christmas.
There is a possibility of the US going over the cliff, as they say
on 1st January.
DEpends on how stubbon their pollies are.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 15 October 2012 11:49:59 PM
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OUG a very long time ago, a King of England used notched lengths of wood as currency.
Because he gave it the Royal seal, it worked.
Some use Pigs,some parts of Pigs.
Some used shells, or carved stone wheels.
Ina crash, I will not,on my 1000m2 be trying to grow ten thousand hrct,s of wheat.
Not using that firms seeds.
IF we ever, and we will not, got to survival mode,my problem would be securing my crop.
Not starving, for that reason and a basic belief in humanity I would feed as many as I could ,and ask protection of the crop in exchange.
Funny soil here, Silver and Gold do not grow well, an old Gold mine in the hills may strike it rich.
But in the end? spend my time in the garden.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 16 October 2012 5:37:46 AM
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That was a bit of an "ooops", wasn't it Arjay.

>>...let's do the maths for poor Pericles...<<

It's a pity that shooting yourself in the foot is not an Olympic sport. You'd be a shoo-in.

And you are not afraid to parade your lack of understanding, for all to see and admire...

>>If the GDP of the planet is 70 billion and Pericles says that derivatives are a type of insurance,who would insure their assets for 10 times their worth.<<

Well they just wouldn't, would they. And given such an obvious conclusion, the spotlight immediately falls on the premises "if" and "and". Clearly, one of these is wrong, but which? I'll ignore the GDP figure for the moment, which I suspect might be wrong but I can't be bothered to check. And heck, if Pericles says that derivatives are a form of insurance, that must be right (although only in the sense that computer programs are just a load of ones and zeroes, but we can safely let that pass for the moment).

So where is the fallacy in Arjay's question?

Perhaps it is his understanding of the nature of insurance.

If I take out insurance on my $1,000 car, the value of that car is an exposure to the insurance company. However, my insurance company will mitigate its risk through reinsurance, usually with a specialist reinsurance company. So (even in this simplistic example) my car has been insured twice, even though it is still the same basic asset. Using Arjay-arithmetic, the exposure is $2,000, which it simply ain't.

What the commentators who get their knickers in a knot about "exposure" forget, is that the derivative market is a web of complementary "bets" that effectively balance each other out. Give or take a few billion. Which is effectively no more than noise, at this level.

No doubt we will see the same "Bartnaby Joyce says..." crop up again and again. Fortunately for the ordered working of civilization, he is about as credible on the topic of finance as Barack Obama would be calling an AFL game between Collingwood and Carlton.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 16 October 2012 9:54:47 AM
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Pericles & others;
I am not sure that Arjay is totally wrong on this.

“Derivatives are financial weapons of mass destruction, carrying
dangers that, while now latent, are potentially lethal,” Warren
Buffett wrote in 2002

It may not be a simple case of insurance but of betting on prices.
If the odds were long enough it could be massive.
There are too many reports similar to what Arjay quoted to ignore it completely.

In any case, it may not matter in the long run.
We will all be either broke or dead, or both.
Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 16 October 2012 2:02:29 PM
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Thank you Bazz.

>>Pericles & others; I am not sure that Arjay is totally wrong on this... There are too many reports similar to what Arjay quoted to ignore it completely.<<

That is precisely the reason why I try to combat his cut'n'paste financial hysteria with some occasional facts.

One of the interesting aspects of the "too many reports" situation, is that their large numbers are predominantly attributable to the fact that they consist of blogs that cut'n'paste the same article - most often entirely out of context - over and over again.

And you are also guilty of the same offence, with this throwaway remark:

>>“Derivatives are financial weapons of mass destruction, carrying dangers that, while now latent, are potentially lethal,” Warren Buffett wrote in 2002<<

Well yes, he did. But you have taken his remark out of the context in which it was written, and turned it into evidence that Arjay is somehow right.

He ain't. And here's why.

http://www.fintools.com/docs/Warren%20Buffet%20on%20Derivatives.pdf

Buffet was concerned that the use of derivatives was capable of hiding the true profit of an organization, and thus distorting his analysis of a company's true worth - the cornerstone of his investment strategy. Not that they would be the ruin of us all - just himself.

And as a sidebar, he pointed out...

"...the parties to derivatives also have enormous incentives to cheat in accounting for them. Those who trade derivatives are usually paid, in whole or part, on “earnings” calculated by mark-to-market accounting. But often there is no real market, and “mark-to-model” is utilized<<

He later modified his "mass destruction" position somewhat - motivated to do so, one suspects, by the fact that he was a substantial dabbler in derivative products himself...

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/derivatives-as-accused-by-buffett/

"In the fourth quarter alone, Berkshire made $222 million on derivatives... Mr. Buffett appeared to backpedal from his oft-quoted line, explaining: 'I don’t think they’re evil per se. It’s just, they, I mean there’s nothing wrong with having a futures contract or something of the sort. But they do let people engage in massive mischief.'"

Derivatives are not evil. It's the people.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 16 October 2012 2:42:51 PM
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look we can all gamble..on promises..
but in the end..its about sustainablity..the current system was set up to fail

just like tax sticks went bust when so many lies got burned by govt govt house burned down..[achieving that the lawyer guyfaulks didnt

as previous posts have proved..
in a perpetual boom/bust..deflating hyper inflating
[ie al banker fed manipulations..lok at our past to see our future

can i still spend my one pound note?
or a hyperinflated deutchmark or szimbawe fiction

if you doudt it
get educated up on the lybore liebore scam.
robbo signing and jury nullification

but see the lie bore/where they keep intrest..you get low
so they can endebit and impoverish you and your state
the more you give them the less they will give you to get it

unless its mates rates

here is a simple egsample
i rent perridicules house..and sell it..hoping i can buy it back cheaper*

or try going to avis renta car.
.and trying to sell ya rental

but this gets done everyday..except they dont got any rental
in fact got nuthin but product..[like face off the book, half price

'ya thats the scam..

ANY BUSINESS THAT HAS BIG DEBT
isnt making any real value..only fiat paper promises/fiat money

fixing their debt..while \allowing hyper inflation
turn that on or off AT WILL*

forgeting in good boom!times
assets are worth more than in depression
when capitalists buy up the spoil..stealing via hyper inflation..in the now worthless face values measured in millions.

bankers stole the banking system
stock markets even cash settlements..lol

beurocrats stole govt..lawyers highjacked law
and unions are there for the cash flow..parties are inhouse hacks[or mysogenists ya got the dirt on*

my mouth feels so unclean
just saying the truth.
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 16 October 2012 2:46:17 PM
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OUG you and I know the truth and reality.I'm the agnostic and you the believer.

Gold always was and now is today,the refuge of desperation born out of corruption by our elites.Real wealth always was and is in the honesty,integrity and creativity of all humanity.

The banksters have stolen our potential via counterfeiting all the money that equals our productivity + inflation.

The banksters are sewing the seeds of all humanities demise.Their obsessive compulsive disorder of wanting total power,will not be realised.

All empires from the Egyptian,Romans,British,USA come to an end.

We in the West have created new unnecessary enemies in the form Russia and China.The angst and grief that eminates from our insecurities,will be realised in WW3,if we all continue to be blissfully ignorant.

I will take little pleasure in gold reaching $7000 per oz,since this will mean that our collective creativity and potential will be reduced by more than threefold.The increase in the price of gold only reflects a growing decay.
Posted by Arjay, Tuesday, 16 October 2012 9:32:43 PM
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Deary me Arjay, what a confused analysis from you, but I guess
I can't expect any more from you. So be it.

But we'll go through it again, from a more accurate perspective.
Reserve Banks were created with an arms lengths distance from
politicians, for anything else would be like putting Dracula in charge
of the blood bank. Suffice to say, any profits generated by the Fed
or the ECB, or our RBA, eventually is paid to taxpayers.

The charter of reserve banks is to use monetary policy to keep the
economy ticking along nicely, without too much inflation or too much
unemployment. They need to do this, even when politics fails, which
is no easy task.

So lets look at the reality. The standoff between democracts and
republicans in the US, means that there is complete political failure,
democracy evidently cannot solve it, or has been unable to, so far.

The overborrowing in the EU was once again a political failure, as
politicians tried to buy off voters.

In both cases, central banks are left to try and pick up the pieces of
democratic failure and have a limited toolbox to do so.

So the problem is not really central banks, but voters who want their
cake, but don't want to pay for it. Don't blame central banks, blame
the stupidity of the public, for the financial problems that we have.
Posted by Yabby, Tuesday, 16 October 2012 10:42:00 PM
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BWLLY finish off the stick story

why did guy faulks want to burn down parlent house?
cause there were too many short sticks..out there
pretending to be long sticks

lol debt sticks
..being treated AS IF long sticks..money

its the same issue today
eventually the govt cancelled the lie
by burning loll ...their long sticks...THE LONG STICK HOLDS THE DEBT over the short stick.

stick money failed
cause idiots thought all sticks lol..equals money

or all leaves
or all shells to be value

when the holder of the note
has the long end
..and the lender holding the debt..short end of the stick

know the full gory
of burning the sticks..in uk parlement house
guyfaulks the lawyer lol..who wanted the proof of fraud burnt!

burn the long sticks

long sticks..revealed the lie
so the short stick holders cleaned up big time

heck one huge stick boiught one third of the bank of england

the colasteral;..is the short end of the stick
but now we can sell promises of the stick
yet who got stuck with the bad debt bet?

all of you
recall jfk..he died for this..pres order 11.110
[ie he dared print govts own money..real dollars..not fiat!

he died for this.
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 17 October 2012 7:43:19 AM
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arjay..gold will never reach anywhere near 3000
cause most people dont buy the gold..but gamble on it going up or down

lol..everyday 7 times more gold than ever mined is traded in promises lol of gold..its this 'promise' price''..[latest gambling ratio we hear on the news today

ie 45 %..lost it big time..if the price goes up
v 60%..betting it goes down...lol

the book maker running the race lol
is setting the odds

max keiser had a go about the issue
but lets let max be max

you said..""Gold always was and now is today,the refuge of desperation born out of corruption by our elites.""

yes gold is god..to some
but i like the lesser golds
there is only one god..and knowing him..is via his creations..is my value

"""..Real wealth always was and is in the honesty,
integrity and creativity of all humanity.""

yes
and as long as we only yearn for money
wiling to work/add value via working for money

those with money will lord it over our values

""The banksters""..jesus kicked out of the temple
they came back..busioness as usual..by the time he got 50 meters from their tratering place

and doubled the token price
same token..forgiving the same commerce pre determined spin./sin

max said for a few hundred bucks ewe can al from run by 5 seconds ahead of the rest of you..lol

wow value 4 money

how much to get 10 second's ahead of the herd that aint heard?

how much to change the law george?
what ya mean ..its part of the sir vice..
ewhere pretend money /..lol is the root of all sin

get their god..ie gold..
its going gto be taken by govt anyhow

watch its price plunge then
when it can only be used as intyended..in our teeth

not money
not value..yet invaluble..to compensate for govt hurting their teeth in the first place....fill their holes with gold..not rings..or unholy uglyness

recall all the worlds gold was in some jews mouth first
and anything linked to it is cursed..value..gold has no value!
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 17 October 2012 8:00:42 AM
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I shall treasure this, one under god.

>>max said for a few hundred bucks ewe can al from run by 5 seconds ahead of the rest of you..lol<<

Says it all, really.
Posted by Pericles, Wednesday, 17 October 2012 3:48:51 PM
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"...5 seconds ahead of the rest..."

You call that high frequency trading? Now, this is high frequency trading:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19214294

As Tim Harford explains, "To give you a sense of how fast high-frequency trading can be, in the time it takes Usain Bolt to react to the starting pistol, a high-frequency trading platform could complete about 165,000 separate trades."

But, since Knight Capital were losing 10 or 15 dollars on each trade it was an expensive lesson in trying to keep ahead of the rest.

That story is real 'gold'. Don't know if they've switched the computer back on yet.
Posted by WmTrevor, Wednesday, 17 October 2012 4:27:30 PM
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Yes they did Trevor, fixed the programming error.
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 17 October 2012 5:08:45 PM
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OUG,everybody is bailing our of $US and unless they bring Glass Steagall back the derivative market will implode causing hyper-inflation.

Right now the NAB is offering the cheapest rates.I know it has borrowed at least $3000 billion from the US Federal Res and they too have derivative exposure.With these cheap rates they are desperately sucking in mortgages so they will have real assets to back up their derivative gambling.

My Bendigo Bank cannot match their rates.They tell me that 80% of their loans are funded by deposits and they have low derivative exposure.That I'll check out.If this is so,the big four banks may be less stable than the small ones.

Gold is a risk but it has yet in real terms to reach the levels of the Great Depression.Where do people put their money when the share market collapses? Housing and land is 40% over valued? How do they save their life savings? Some form of precious metal is one of the few options.

I think gold will pass $2000 per oz soon and then we will be unknown territory.

The other possible solution is BITCOINs or cyber money.But who do you trust?
Posted by Arjay, Thursday, 18 October 2012 5:47:49 AM
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Arjay are you there?
Five minutes ago Police and home security police arrested a man outside Americas Federal reserve.
Called a terrorist he was, it is said, attempting to blow up the Fed Reserve!
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 18 October 2012 6:08:00 AM
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Such confusion, Arjay.

>>...unless they bring Glass Steagall back the derivative market will implode causing hyper-inflation<<

There are some very good reasons why bringing back a form of Glass Steagall might help stabilize the US financial world in the medium term. In fact, I'm beginning to warm to the idea, especially since the massively complex Dodd Frank bill addresses only the problems on the surface, not in the infrastructure.

But Arjay, how on earth would such a move prevent the "implosion" of the derivative market? Furthermore, how would such an "implosion" cause hyperinflation? Apart from all that, what makes you think that the derivative market is likely to "implode" in the first place?

I'm not sure where you are getting your information from, but this is just silly...

>>Right now the NAB is offering the cheapest rates.I know it has borrowed at least $3000 billion from the US Federal Res...<<

I suspect that three trillion dollars might be just a tad noticeable, wouldn't you?

But even assuming you really meant $3 billion, what is the problem in borrowing from the Fed in the first place? As I recall, there were some really cheap funds on offer for a while, and at least a couple of Aussie Banks took advantage of this... why do you see this as problematic?

>>With these cheap rates they are desperately sucking in mortgages so they will have real assets to back up their derivative gambling.<<

The assets are, of course, the loans themselves. How does taking more loans onto their balance sheet "back up" their activity in the derivative market?

Admit it - at least quietly to yourself, when no-one else is listening - that you have no idea how the financial markets work. Perhaps then you might spare us these flights of fancy.

Although I have to admit - also quietly, when no-one else is listening - I do quite often find them immensely entertaining in their wrong-headedness.
Posted by Pericles, Thursday, 18 October 2012 9:02:06 AM
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Anyway Arjay, it won't matter anyway what happens to the money system.
I don't think gold is a solution, as all we will be able to swap it for
is more money.
What we need is not money, or gold but something that has intrinsic value.
The only thing I can think of is land.
If you are too old for farming, then you can rent it out to a farmer
for payment in food.

You will be interested in this talk by Richard Heinberg as he covers
the generation of credit and the problems it causes.

http://tinyurl.com/ce73aw7

I don't think (hope ?) it will be that bad if we can arrange a
plentiful electricity supply. Else we just adjust to a lower standard.
OIl is currently about 75% of our energy usage, so you can see how
much extra electricity we would need to generate to maintain our
current lifestyle.
It is not that simple of course but it is a good start.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 18 October 2012 9:46:24 AM
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yes bazz next land..lol
nothing like investers looking for assets to double prices..in anything they can put the cash into..like the farce book fall to 50%..in real market values

the only way they could hope to correcgt that [back to the issue price..is entrap users with gambling..you watch..

anyhow put their bailout into what?
no matter what its real value is half..in the upcomming bust

woprkers should seize their workplaces..like in argentina..run their work as a cooperative..[heck think of all the coops unions could have built..from workplaces going bust globally*

value ading
rests with the worker

and govt is only holding us down
for capitalists to rape reap and plunder.. us of the max return the markets /corperate stockholders owning corp'..ses..[and ripping off the consumer ..as much ..as our meager wages ..can bare*

its only the new rich that loose
hence capitalisation of babby boomers with to much cash
ripped directly out of our COMPULSORY super 'con-tribut-ions'..
stolen from wages when its income tax..not wage tax..[wage ISNT income!]

but its a waste of my breath
the law is govt/unions lawyers docters scientists..AINT THERE FOR YOU*

jusy the cash money...imagine if they actually diod use the money for research repair..rebuilding..NOT ON WAR

i had to laught at JULIAR today..
tripped while walking to ghandies crypt..on her own war mongering
[npting the press talks of joint exersizes..YEAH TRAINING FOR WAR..visit ghandi grave..?

your so dumb juliar
Posted by one under god, Thursday, 18 October 2012 1:59:55 PM
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"I think you are mad if you don't." LOL, how can you be so sure?
Posted by Nitahayhurst, Thursday, 18 October 2012 5:13:26 PM
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Re NAB pericles.$ 3 billion is what we know about.Their inflated net profit is about this.Add into the mix their derivative exposure.Add into the mix 40% property over valuation.Add into the mix their supposed assets based on loans yet to be repaid.

Massive unemployment will mean massive bank losses.We have a consumption/mining based economy which depends upon the good will of China who is currently seeking alternate sources of resources/energy due to our close alignment to the war momgering imperialists.

Is dear old Pericles trying to tell us he has more credibility than Max Keiser? Pull the other one Pericles.
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 19 October 2012 5:39:35 PM
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Well that was quite amusing, Arjay. You trying to justify your mix-up
of 3 billion versus your claimmed 3000 billion$. Rather then show
some character and admit that you screwed up, you keep shovelling as
your hole gets deeper. Go on, admit to Pericles that you got it wrong.

What will happen if housing prices drop dramatically? Well no, it
won't be banks wearing the losses, but homeowners. Banks have
a spread of customers for 30 year loans, so only a small % of their
loans are recent ones. I did see a projection somewhere as to what
would happen if Australian house prices dropped and amazingly our
banks would still be ok.

If our economy tanks, even that won't be such a bad thing in the
longer term. The Aussie $ would become the Aussie peso, my wheat
and meat would be worth far more on the global market, and you
city slickers would have to think of ways to earn a crust in the
real world, rather than just trade houses with each other for a
living.

Those who borrowed too much would sink and those who put a penny
away for rainy day, could buy assets at a bargain price
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 19 October 2012 7:41:09 PM
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For those of you who think I am talking through my hat about the "End of Growth"
You may be interested to see that Bloomberg has published an article
on the effect of the cost of oil on growth and its end.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-23/how-high-oil-prices-will-permanently-cap-economic-growth.html

So you see there is a lot more to our current situation than what all
the experts tell you about how we have recovered from the GFC.
Of course Bloomberg has a bet each way by saying that the opinions are
the authors.
However more people writing & commenting on the economy are acknowleding this problem.
Posted by Bazz, Saturday, 20 October 2012 2:32:32 PM
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contd
At the bottom of the article there are links to part 2 and part 3.
Part two deals with coal and the effect of its increasing cost and
decreasing quality and availability.
Part 3 deals with nuclear and tar sands oil.

Anyone interested in the economy must find it interesting as its
outlook is so different to the usual "now don't you worry" and business as usual.
Posted by Bazz, Saturday, 20 October 2012 3:02:02 PM
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Ok Arjay, so we've established (by default) that you didn't actually mean "at least $3000 billion". But you are still confused about some basics...

>>Re NAB pericles.$ 3 billion is what we know about.Their inflated net profit is about this.<<

You might like to ponder for a moment how borrowing $3 billion is related to their net profit line, as you appear to insinuate. Basic accounting procedures ensure that borrowing money doesn't flow through to the bottom line in that way. What you might also like to examine is why borrowing $3 billion at low rates from a highly reputable US agency is in itself a bad thing, as you also seem to believe.

>>Add into the mix their derivative exposure.<<

Add to what? And what is their exposure to derivatives? Is it material?

>>Add into the mix 40% property over valuation<<

Whether or not that figure is accurate at the general level, you cannot know how that might impact the Bank's stability. For all you know, their total exposure might only be 60%, in which case their net exposure is nil - even assuming everyone defaults at the same time.

>>Add into the mix their supposed assets based on loans yet to be repaid.<<

No idea what assets you are referring to. Who is repaying what to whom, and why?

>>Is dear old Pericles trying to tell us he has more credibility than Max Keiser? Pull the other one Pericles.<<

From what you have told me, that wouldn't be an outrageous claim on my part.

But I do know that I can add up, which is more than you and Barnaby Joyce appear capable of.
Posted by Pericles, Sunday, 21 October 2012 5:06:10 PM
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it seems we are buying gold because..we expect the
central banks to be buying great lumps of the stuff.. via money printing....i missed that reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD3mvy2qaTU
Posted by one under god, Thursday, 8 November 2012 7:50:41 AM
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The Emperor Has No Gold

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/11/the-emperor-has-no-gold.html


Romania has demanded for many years that Russia return its gold.

Last year, Venezuela demanded the return of 90 tons of gold from the Bank of England.

The German high court recently ruled that Germany must audit its gold reserves held in foreign countries such as the U.S., England and France. And German inspectors will actually travel to the New York Federal Reserve Bank’s gold depository and the Bank of England to inspect their gold.

Germany will also repatriate
150 tons of gold in order to test it for purity.

Ecuador’s government wants the nation’s banks to repatriate about one third of their foreign holdings to support national growth, the head of the country’s tax agency said

Rival Libya militias turn streets of Tripoli into battlefield
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=55285



Rival state-sanctioned Libyan militias fired guns and rocket-propelled grenades at each in the Libyan capital on Sunday, leaving the police powerless to protect locals.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/who-pocketed-gaddafis-billions/5310459

"But we got rid of that state bank
and that pesky gold dinar and that makes it all worth it!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3JLKw0q4kY
http://investmentwatchblog.com/the-world-is-getting-robbed-bailouts-going-to-money-laundering/

free fuel tell em no way
http://12160.info/page/authorities-stop-free-gas-from-getting-to-the-public-in-nj

John Maynard Keynes famously remarked that, “In the long run, we are all dead.”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/victorsperandeo/2012/03/30/the-long-run-is-here-lets-bury-john-maynard-keynes/
http://chasvoice.blogspot.com/2012/11/german-gold-reserves-stored-in-ny-fed.html

more clever games
http://poorrichards-blog.blogspot.fr/2012/11/trillions-of-dollars-of-securities-may.html

http://xrepublic.tv/node/862
Posted by one under god, Thursday, 8 November 2012 8:08:11 AM
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Reserve Bank of Australia is printing money for foreign banks

http://www.hangthebankers.com/reserve-bank-of-australia-is-printing-money-for-foreign-banks/

Global banking giant UBS says the Reserve Bank may be printing money to keep the Australian dollar under control.

$43 Trillion + $36.5 Trillion
+ 1 Computer Virus = 1 Big Fraud

http://poorrichards-blog.blogspot.fr/2012/11/43-trillion-365-trillion-1-computer.html


The amount of fraud in America has reached astounding levels. On the CBS Evening News on 9-10-2001 Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld admitted that neither he nor his Comptroller Rabbi Dov Zakheim could trace the whereabouts of 2.3 trillion dollars missing from the DOD.

Also on that same night
persons unknown backed up a few trucks
to World Trade Center Towers 4 and 5 and took about a billion dollars in gold and silver bullion from the Canadian Nova Scotia bank vault and from the COMEX metals exchange vault next door.

Also on 911 all ENRON documents in the SEC offices at WTC 7 were destroyed which saved Wall Street a few billion dollars in lawsuits.

Also on 911 Dr Jim Willie says Cantor Fitzgerald offices in the North Tower which had all of the documentation on the sale of 3.5 trillion dollars in fraudulent Treasury bonds was destroyed when the North Tower collapsed.
Posted by one under god, Thursday, 8 November 2012 2:45:41 PM
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At some point - hopefully in the very near future, one under god - you really should stop cut'n'pasting all this rubbish.

I am sure that it can rot your brain.

>>on 9-10-2001 Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld admitted that neither he nor his Comptroller Rabbi Dov Zakheim could trace the whereabouts of 2.3 trillion dollars missing from the DOD.<<

Arjay was fond of repeating this old furphy, so I made a note of the actual speech. Here is the transcript.

http://www.defense.gov/speeches/speech.aspx?speechid=430

"The technology revolution has transformed organizations across the private sector, but not ours, not fully, not yet. We are, as they say, tangled in our anchor chain. Our financial systems are decades old. According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions. We cannot share information from floor to floor in this building because it's stored on dozens of technological systems that are inaccessible or incompatible."

He was complaining about the crappy computer system, not that the money was missing. Duh.

>>Also on that same night persons unknown backed up a few trucks to World Trade Center Towers 4 and 5 and took about a billion dollars in gold and silver bullion from the Canadian Nova Scotia bank vault and from the COMEX metals exchange vault next door.<<

Except that this did not happen. It is just one of those stupidities that has been passed from blog to blog so may times that people actually believe it.

>>Also on 911 all ENRON documents in the SEC offices at WTC 7 were destroyed which saved Wall Street a few billion dollars in lawsuits.<<

Ditto.

>>Cantor Fitzgerald offices in the North Tower which had all of the documentation on the sale of 3.5 trillion dollars in fraudulent Treasury bonds was destroyed when the North Tower collapsed.<<

Ditto.

About that brain-rotting thing...
Posted by Pericles, Thursday, 8 November 2012 4:57:25 PM
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pericules quote..is worth repeating and noting what its really saying

""We are,..as they say, tangled in our anchor chain.""

yeah we got that
well all except perry
then the lol..decades old throwaway line..lol
from the whoressources mouth

then
""According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions."" thus its not there!

"We cannot share information from floor to floor""..EVEN here..""in this building because it's stored on dozens of technological systems that are inaccessible or incompatible."""

gee now thats just too clever aint it
it dont refute anything
dont invalidate nuthing
you proove nuthin..shot yaself in ya own fleet feet

lol

so lets read on poor richards other points
where he explains how 'one day' a clever virus SOMEHOW wipes info off these...""dozens of technological systems""..that cant talk lol to EVEN each other!

UNREFUTED
unrefutable

""The US corperates..are engaged in such massive fraud
that investors might soon pull their money..from American stock and bond markets..as well as their banks.""

but not you..lol

""The only persons who would benefit from loading American banks and brokerage houses with computer viruses..would be Israel and Wall Street. ""

unrefutable

eliminating the proof against them lol
basic stuff crinminals will surely do

""There are probably a lot of bankers in the City of London who would also love to catch that same computer virus..In France during the recent bank runs..bankers simply pulled the plug on their computers.""

""Then they told their customers
they could not get access to their money today.""

comming to a banking institution..near you anyday soon
one day the cash machines..stop giving you your own cash
and you will be encouraged to roll over their faulse promise

""The DTCC has been experiencing hundreds of millions of dollars in failures to deliver transactions.""

undeniable..your quote
from a hoarsses mouth!
Posted by one under god, Friday, 9 November 2012 4:55:13 AM
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but wait..there is more [not refuted by fact this time
funny how you put up one link..expecgting that destraction[and your respected postition/name..to be proof enough..lol

for some

but that leaves the rest of the gold stuff unrefuted
and the proof you put up supports arjays case

but lets hear more from por richard

""An investor who shorts stock>>..is supposed to borrow someone else’s shares at his brokerage.!.If he sells short without borrowing your stocks, then he can just pocket the money..>>""if he knew on what day that nasty virus wiped out..all bank and brokerage records.""

""A virus could conveniently wipe out all bank and brokerage records. It would eliminate all lawsuits...Of course all of your money would belong to the bankers.""

Your only recourse would be tar and feathers>>and asset seizure.!""

[as you know mr lawyer
thgat obtained by fraud canot gainsay clear title..EVER
fraud has no statute of limitations*

""But that is why the bankers have passed the Patriot Act,
the John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007 and the NDAA.""

yeah ya love defending the indefensable
cause you know most of our readers go on trust

thus your love of ridi-cules
but heck i got thick skin..i see through ya spin
i see ya really got nuthin..but clever word spin
Posted by one under god, Friday, 9 November 2012 4:59:57 AM
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Really, one under god?

>>i see ya really got nuthin..but clever word spin<<

And you have...?

Stuff you have scraped off the internet.

You're like all those Republicans who fully expected a Romney victory, because of the tripe they had been fed by their like-minded media pushers. As Guy Rundle noted in Crikey this afternoon...

"Yet on the other it was at this point the Right decided to go nuts about the polls, returning to the notion that they were 'skewed', and dismissing dozens of mainstream firms as propagandists. Most prominent was Dick Morris, known as the 'genius' by Fox News, who told us that he had looked at the same numbers Nate Silver had and had come up with a different result -- it was going to be a landslide for Romney. Sitting there like a Cheshire Cat with fluid retention problems, Morris told viewers the GOP would take not only Florida, Ohio and the small states, but Pennsylvania as well, Michigan, 'and we might get Minnesota'".

His viewers were unaware, of course, that it was just hopeful musings that he had conjured up in order to feed their prejudices, and make them say "look, it must be true, I saw it on TV".

Seriously. It can rot your brain.
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 9 November 2012 3:29:07 PM
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