The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > General Discussion > Work to welfare - Labor's live cattle policy.

Work to welfare - Labor's live cattle policy.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 13
  7. 14
  8. 15
  9. All
AT least 1000 jobs could be lost as a result of the Gillard government's live cattle export ban to Indonesia, with Western Australia alone predicting it would cost its economy $170 million.

The Gillard government has responded by offering $30m in welfare payments to those put out of work. However, the farmers will not get enough to survive, and the jobs in NT with a large aboriginal component will be lost.

As for animal welfare, the 1000s of cattle that are likely to starve to death would be better off in Indonesian abattoirs.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/live-cattle-trade-ban-could-cost-1000-jobs/story-fn59niix-1226083056030
Posted by Shadow Minister, Saturday, 2 July 2011 6:53:29 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The job culture changes over time for many reasons including changes in policy. Although governments are forever geared to policies around jobs, that does not mean the landscape will not change. Moral responsibilities around animal welfare are worth pursuing. The travesty is that live exports were ever supported.

Being more positive, there are also more opportunities for onshore abbatoirs to fill the void including providing more jobs.

How did the Howard Government deal with the jobs aspect with the ban on live exports to Egypt? It has been done before, nothing new here, just more anti-Labor spin.
Posted by pelican, Saturday, 2 July 2011 8:34:29 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
From Council) Journal of the Officie Official Journal of the Australasian

Meat Industry Employees’ Union (Federal Council) al Journal of the Australasian Meat Industry Employees’ Union (Federal

“The live export trade costing Australia around $1.7 billion in lost GDP,around $280 million in household income and around 12,000 jobs”

(Impact of the Live Animal Export Sector on the
Australian Meat Processing Industry, Dr S. G.

If You want to talk about Job Losses I am sure the AMIEU among others would welcome it.
Heilbron, 2000, p.6)

It’s estimated on this basis that up to
40,000 jobs have been lost in the meat
processing sector, taking into account
shed closures, since 1985.
The same report established a theme that
is still present today: the live export trade
enjoys significant advantages over the
domestic meat processing sector through
international subsidies and tariffs and
a failure on the local front to “level the laying field”.

These figures are now higher with the Townsville dealing with
among other things in the past grave concerns of a high suicide problem and the loss of 78 million from just that one plant alone.

It doesn't stop there as Abattoirs across regional Australia have been the life blood of the town.

We have lost specialists in this field. Its also distorted the real estate market and people with mortgages have had too try to sell because of no jobs. Same thing with Killarney and the loss of hundreds of jobs.

For Years AMIEU and Meat workers Abattoir owners have suffered because of live exports.

Jobs- Jobs jobs. Recent figures still on the table now estimate its closer to 60 thousand jobs lost and thats without value adding.
Posted by Kerryanne, Saturday, 2 July 2011 8:57:34 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
*Jobs- Jobs jobs. Recent figures still on the table now estimate its closer to 60 thousand jobs lost and thats without value adding.*

Come on Gerturde, pull the other one. Ring Fletchers, Wammco or
Hillside, you will find that 457 workers keep them going. Aussies
don't want the jobs in meatworks, they'd rather be out on a station
or earning miners wages.

Fact is that if those cattle are sold locally, their value is so
low that the stations will go bankrupt on the proceeds. Then
you'll land up with wild cattle destroying the environment, as you
now do with camels.

If the meat industry is so easy, go and harvest those million wild
camels and make it pay. Nobody else has made it work.

So now they have little choice but to shoot and drop the camels.
They will have to do the same with cattle, if the boats don't start
moving soon.
Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 2 July 2011 9:37:05 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It read off AMIEU web site. Open your eyes mate.

I reckon its higher again because those figures a near three ears old. I am a butcher and a meat exporter. Mate I cant fill 70% or orders because of supply shortage due to live exports.I got no time for any of them. Lost a family a brother and a lot of good mates. Most of them lost their houses , marriages me included. Couldn't sell so had to let the bank have our houses. Most of us same. Nobody offered us 30 mill either. Nothing.
Shes right around 40 thousand in 2009 much more now sport. Dont come crying to me you blokes never give a rats @ about all the meat workers in Australia and still dont. My sons a chef cant buy brains small good here has to but from overseas bloody joke for sure.
Posted by bronk, Saturday, 2 July 2011 10:56:04 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
What began as an animal welfare issue, has now developed into another Labor government stuff up.

Along with insulation, BER, illegal boat arrivals, petrol watch, grocery watch, cash for clunkers, solar panels, green grants and more.

Now add live cattle exports to the list.

Whats the odds on the NBN being done right and the carbon tax being OK

They could not run a chook raffle in a pub.

Ludwig gets all the blame, but he was presured by Caucus, what a bunch of incompedent twits
Posted by Banjo, Saturday, 2 July 2011 11:15:48 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Banjo, there is an interesting article in the Weekend Australian,
which I have a copy of, but can't see the online version. What they
claim is that Ludwig was one of those who knifed Rudd in the back,
but now Rudd is expected to clean up Ludwig's mess in Indonesia and
he is mad as hell about it. Meantime pastoralists pay the price
of all the squabbling within the party .

Gertrude, your attempt to portray a rugged butcher is doomed to
failure, but keep trying lol. A butcher would know that consolidation,
automation and a 100 million drop in the sheep
population, was the reason for meatworks closing. 90% of livestock
are still slaughtered here. Next a butcher would know that he
can't export meat as a butcher, he'd have to be an accredited
export works, with AQIS staff looking over his shoulder. Next
he'd know that brains are available by the container load from Aus,
if you want to buy them. Next he'd know that he can buy all the
carcases he wants, if he can pay the bill. He can even buy them
in the saleyards and have them contract slaughtered.

But keep dreaming.
Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 2 July 2011 11:54:25 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yabby,
You have serious issues. According to you every bloody poster is ME- grow up.For your information whoever opened this thread the Indonesians told US at least 6 months ago they were dropping back 75% of live cattle intake.
If they didnt know up in NT WHY? Who``s crying about loss of jobs than ah? I said on the other thread it was 6 months ago - but i think more like EIGHT.
THE INDONESIANS gave us enough time to prepare for this- but we didnt why? THEY DID THE RIGHT THING. GAVE US HEAPS OF NOTICE! to turn the 75% reduction into jobs!jobs! jobs!Who ever its job was to warn these breeders ought to be shot.!

I dont support their treatment of animals but i *do understand their outrage & what they see as stunt to save face.

bronk


We are up about 30% more if you factor the high $. Free trade & subs makes it tough on red meat trade- impossible. You have lived with it i see. Droughts and short supply haven't helped. Puts the red trade up against live even more. Gone are our smaller farmers ( well most).
There is nothing stopping them to start trucking them as you said to QLD & more jobs for drivers.

Its up to you bronk but i would not suggest you even supported this thread. I am not going all over it again lets Yabby go with his endless dribble and of course the others know SO much about the meat trade-& jobs lost!!
Yeh right. Yabby Mr know it all doesn't even know they pulled out on us first! was always going happen...
Posted by Kerryanne, Sunday, 3 July 2011 12:44:48 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Pelican,

Please read up before you post. The local abattoirs prefer different breeds of cattle to those bred for live export, and so as mentioned above, the prices obtained are so low that often it costs more to transport them.

The sheep exports to Egypt were a tiny fraction of the market, and the breeds used were the same as locally consumed. So the comparison would be closer to stopping exports to a few non complying abattoirs in Indonesia.

One of the largest abattoirs in Indonesia is owned by Australia and run to Australian standards. Why is export to them banned? This is simply a knee jerk reaction to the polls.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Sunday, 3 July 2011 6:08:46 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
yabby such threads are not ones I will post in often.
But on reading your post I think I must.
Joe Ludwig is the son of one of my hero's, Bill father figure to my union.
He may or may not have been part of the team that removed Rudd.
That team, knew.knows more than we do about Rudd's faults.
They owe us an explanation, they owe us a reason for not pulling him in to gear.
And they owe me, a loyal servant, in a time my party is talking about reform, a reason [other than not wanting to be seen as wrong] for Gillards leap in to the trash can.
She, at least, acted totally wrongly in this issue.
Trying to cover herself in glory in the eyes of green/red left she dived in to head high depth of the waste product of male cattle.
And continues to try to find a way to turn it into a pedestal she can mount.
She is lost on this, more intent on NOT LETTING Kevin fix it.
A ban, for one month, freedom, not confinement for Rudd to act, and we by now or next week would be exporting cattle live cattle.
Not the phantom dreams of the truly lost wanting to turn Bos Indictus to Angus.
Not the Lotus eaters dream to turn us into lettuce eaters.
Labor was born in the bush, it should be farming bush votes not declaring war on them.
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 3 July 2011 7:26:59 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Pelican,

Was directed to you. I wont butt in.

Note how they have avoided addressing the fact that Indonesian informed Australia months and months before hand they were reducing by 75%

( one) They dont want to tackle that one important fact.

(Two) In another thread Yabby said something that was spot on:
He reminded us how long it took to bend relationships with Malaysia.
He then accredited that to Downer & Howard. In part he was correct because they had the brains to engage a proper advisor unlike it is now.
Yes Yabby it was finally sorted & done through Howard & Downers advisor in Islamic affairs.
That same person ( or two people actually) two weeks ago kindly offered to go over & also invite Chris.
Your *correct in saying that was the only way to go. The offer was ignored by Ludwig's office. I give you ten out of ten for that.

.
I mean they fixed it before with Malaysia & at any rate the worst outcome might have been it failed this time. But we will never know know. So I dont disagree with you on that comment and it was a darn important comment you did make .
Never mind tomorrow you will read in the papers skinny Tony Abbott is going over :)

I saw him on a horse last week, must of been getting ready to impress the cattleman:) Woopy look out Bob!

Spoke with his advisor Tony Abbott's 3 months ago.
He said Yes, I am the advisor & my Dad used to have a farm too.:) Said he had actually even *been to *a abattoir in *Australia a few years back. Asked if he had ever seen a plant off shore- Answer NO

So lets skinny almighty ride off on his horse with his . er, advisor why not. Cant make matter worse- -- or can it?

The icing on the cake for AA I should think:)
Posted by Kerryanne, Sunday, 3 July 2011 9:46:17 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
But hang on, won't those workers just walk into one of those mine jobs that Yabby's always telling us us is the reason abattoirs supposedly can't get workers? Or couldn't they be employed in reopened abattoirs?

I realise that it's not as simple as that, but industries come and go all the time in Australia and workers shift around accordingly. The live exports industry was only relatively recently established, but it's looking increasingly unsustainable. If it folds it will be unfortunate for those who currently depend on it, but that is inevitable anyway if the industry is unsustainable. I agree that the immediate ban on exports was a knee-jerk reaction that should have had a longer time frame, but you have to acknowledge that the AA campaign has been very effective in terms of its own aims.
Posted by morganzola, Sunday, 3 July 2011 10:10:51 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Morgan, the unintended consequences of the AA campaign, remain to be
seen. If the station owners have no money to pump water, if overstocking is the result, the mass death of the herds from hunger
and thirst will make any good intentions look like a Sunday school
picnic.

One station owner did send some cattle south, he suffered a 70%
drop in income. At that rate any station becomes unviable and will
go broke. You'll have cattle left up to the fate of nature, as you
now have with camels. Apart from the cruelty, the environmental
degradation will be massive.

The Indonesian supply chain was a very sustainable one. Poor
politics got in the way.
Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 3 July 2011 10:55:31 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yabby This is who I am mate !

http://meatexportaustralia.webs.com/aboutus.htm

I watched many mates loose everything as I said & live exports was the reason. You want to talk about lost jobs by the thousands peoples lives lost houses because of abattoirs closing you just dont know and dont care.

The Indonesians did tell us they were pulling out 75% of live cattle months ago the ladies right. But dont make claims I am not who I say. I note your not putting up your details sport.
Posted by bronk, Sunday, 3 July 2011 11:17:46 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
No Yabby. An industry's not sustainable if it can't meet minimum standards in various areas, including in this case animal welfare conditions. MLA and at least some suppliers have been aware of the appalling slaughtering conditions in most Indonesian abattoirs for years, but have not been able to improve them until now.

The difference in the position of some producers to that of us who insist that live exports are conducted humanely, is that those producers would continue to sell into that market regardless of animal welfare conditions for financial reasons, while most Australians regard those conditions as cruelly unacceptable and therefore unaceeptable under any circumstances.

The producers and their marketing organisation have been aware of this issue for years and chosen to turn a blind eye in the name of the almighty dollar, and they've been caught out. No amount of huffing and puffing will alter that fact.

I note you didn't comment about the spurious employment claim that is the subkect of this thread.
Posted by morganzola, Sunday, 3 July 2011 11:23:19 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
YABBY! it is not a cowards act but a brave mans one to some times walkaway.
You are confronted with animal rights activists.
Groups, rejected by them, but wanting to use them to export Halal meat.
Greens who see a chance to join in any kicking of the majority for their own gain.
Others claiming to be meat exporters but not telling us how they market this meat.
I now leave,you should too, no intent exists here to debate, maybe give ground, maybe even resolve this problem.
MY GOVERNMENT! has inflicted great damage, to an industry a whole group of producers, and big part of our country.
Yabby you are trying to convince the lost soles who Labor got down on its knees to please.
Labor now, all too late, wishes it had set Kevin free, eaten its humble pie and trade would just about be back in place.
Yes I can feel the barbs on the way, I however think majority's must stand and be counted and an understanding must come.
Animal welfare is very poorly served by RSPCA, AA, and most seen here.
Tell me, truly, is it not true, while controlling the senate the greens are the most hated party in our country's history.
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 3 July 2011 12:01:56 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I assume your referring to the programe to faze out live and replace with chilled working with RSPCA QLD & Australian Muslim Leaders.
Again I am posting as a person belly but do go to RSPCA QLD - or the Halal programe if you prefer and LOOK who is featuring - RSPCA QLD .

*MY GOVERNMENT! ..

Yabby,
Perhaps you could explain how correct he is & how much a part of the then unions helped to force live exports originally. They certainly were a main factor in conjunction with others yes.
A lot has changed since then granted and them meat union AMIEU is doing their level best to support Aussie meat workers & Australian jobs working side by side launching campaigns to END live exports i admit.
Animal Welfare & RSPCA in conjunction with AMIEU unions are doing an excellent job.!
The Meat union in particular has launched a scathing attack on the cruelty involved in the live export trade.
The current PM for labor is their saving graze but i question some Ministers and advisers .
The bottom line is and I will say it again & again Indonesia gave Australia warning well over six months ago it was reducing its intake of live cattle by 75%

Thousands of jobs have been lost over the last twenty + years & if we dont start to value add soon it will be the end of Australia's agriculture as others move forward with the bigger picture.
Posted by Kerryanne, Sunday, 3 July 2011 1:12:53 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
http://fw.farmonline.com.au/news/nationalrural/livestock/cattle/senate-inquiry-to-scrutinise-4-corners/2212399.aspx?storypage=0

Morgan, you are jumping the gun in claiming that industry knew.
Perhaps you should wait for the Senate inquiry to reveal who knew
what, not make presumptions. Funny that the Govt sent vets to check
out facilities and saw nothing like AA saw. Chris Back knows his
subject on this.

Next we need to know how limited MLA was by their charter, directors
cannot just willy nilly do with money whatever they want.

The Indonesians have made a valid point, nobody ever laid down the
rules. They have now just pulled them out of the air. This is the
first time that any Govt has bothered to do so.

The issue of employment is quite straight forward. If it does not
pay to run cattle on the stations, there won't be any jobs for
anybody, including the meatworks. From helicopter pilots to truckies,
the lot will lose them, including the thousands on Aboriginal stations.
When farmers sold off a hundred million sheep, they
did so because it no longer paid to run them. When the old goose
who is meant to lay those golden eggs croaks it, its a lose lose
all around, quite unlike the intended consequences
Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 3 July 2011 1:59:06 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yabby,

You REFUSE to answer. The Indonesians TOLD Us over six months ago they were reducing intake 75% WHAT DO U HAVE TO SAY TO THAT?
You & yours didn’t know did you? Find out Why?
You’re not even a cattleman.

* by vibrant Liberal rural NSW Senator, Bill Heffernan*
.
Bill who imop part of the problem& its been alleged by a neighbor complaints of cruelty against him fell on deaf ears um,
Last seen gate crashing a press conference talking about shaving young girls public hairs in foreign countries. Why not give him tourism!

*But WA Liberal Senator, was warned a year ago to clean up their act FACT
*The *extreme animal rights *.
Minister Joe Ludwig was warned of the problem months ago. In December, the RSPCA wrote to him pointing to an independent study carried out for the Australian industry into conditions in Indonesia. Although the report's summary was anodyne, the content was damning.

Read more:
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/ludwig-dithered-on-matter-till-the-cows-came-home-20110608-1ft7r.html
*He said more than anything else, “I want to know about the integrity of that footage”.*

*He asked *
I think it would be fair to say they had informed these people many a time before and ZERO was done. I can say Ivan was made aware years ago & other than an invitation for a coffee and chat NO interest!

*Ms White shot the vision *
Ms white made SURE the public saw it & what an incredible act of love of Animals to go through doing what she did.

*“As a veterinarian*
As a veterinarian you might ask the same of the AVA. Of course the fact the Government PAY their wages & they are employed by the industry may have something to do with it
Might explain WHY too the AVA refused to accept a petition from other vets protesting live exports& their slaughter at their destinations claiming THEIR opinions did not matter?
Could be why too AVA failed to turn up at a meeting with Peter McGauran’s office & others after first accepting the invitation without even a call to say they were not coming?
Posted by Kerryanne, Sunday, 3 July 2011 3:44:50 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Gertrude, I have little to say to your many wild claims.

Indonesia made it clear this year that they would buy half a million
live cattle with a weight limit of 350kg and 50'000t boxed beef.

The indepedant vets who inspected the Indonesian facilites earlier
were independant and saw nothing like the AA claims. Neither did
anyone else for that matter. But I'll wait for the Senate to
enquire and find out what really went on, then we'll all have
an informed opinion. Meantime they'd better get those cattle
moving again, whilst they still can. They'd better move or they
will have a massive lawsuit on their hands.
Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 3 July 2011 5:41:32 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yabby

*I have little to say ..*.
Oh my god! I thought u were just lying.
I cant believe the incompetence goes that far- but it must.

Then again why should i believe you .

( ie we had no knowledge.)_=
World Society for the Protection of Animals (WSPA)
Report Philippines
July 2001
XXX
Australian Government
investigates high mortalities aboard 7 SHIPS OF SHAME in 2002.

XXXXXXXX

Tom Hannan, Federal Secretary
Australasian Meat Industry Employees Union (From amieu)
________________________________________
Since the 1970's the meatworkers union has opposed live exports on the basis of its destruction of Australian jobs, its inhumane treatment of the animals and the decimation of the meat processing industry.
Since that time at least 25 export meatworks have closed in Australia and more are still closing at the present time.
Processing plants in the top end of Australia have been decimated with only two remaining in operation at Townsville and Innisfail in Queensland, with sporadic kills at Katherine in the Northern Territory. The great majority of cattle in the Northern Territory are exported live.
XXXXXX
Live Animal Export ‘Keniry Inquiry’ – October /December 2003.



members of the review team are:

Professor Ivan Caple,... P

‘Senator O’BRIEN—How does the government monitor animal welfare at foreign abattoirs that slaughter Australian animals exported to those countries?
Mr Merrilees—In a formal sense, we have no formal monitoring program at foreign abattoirs. It is a matter for the sovereign country to put in place any practices that they wish.
Senator O’BRIEN—So we have no protocols with any foreign nation about how animals will be treated upon landing?
Mr Merrilees— NO

?
Posted by Kerryanne, Sunday, 3 July 2011 6:00:06 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Tuesday, August 10, 2010

INDONESIA - Indonesia's decision to restrict imports of Australian boxed beef and live cattle exports.
Indonesia has dramatically slashed the amount of product it will import, saying it wants Indonesian farmers to become self sufficient and develop their own industry. ....

Thursday, May 13, 2010
Indonesia To Cut Imports
INDONESIA - With an increasing focus on self-sufficiency, ...has said that the Indonesian government is trying to cut meat imports by 10 per cent each year, so that they achieve meat ###self-sufficiency by 2014.###
," Tjeppy D Soedjana, the ministry`s director general of husbandry, told Antaranews.

Speaking at a workshop on action plan for the development of beef cattle, he said Indonesia was determined to reduce its dependence ...programme designed to achieve meat self-sufficiency in 2014.

He said Indonesia`s cattle imports dropped significantly to 450,000 heads in 2008 from 496,000 heads in 2007.

"The cattle imports further fell in 2009," he said.

This year the country`s population of beef cattle reached 11.8 million, 3.5 million of which was found in East Java, he said.

He expressed hope the population of beef cattle would increase to 12-13 million by the end of this year.

"West Nusa Tenggara is one of the regions for the breeding of beef cattle to achieve meat self-sufficiency in 2014," he said.
News Desk ....

Yabby question
why would the public want to spend millions there for another 3 years THEN WHAT
Better put the $ into our own
Posted by Kerryanne, Sunday, 3 July 2011 6:37:03 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
@ Yabby:

Yes, but what about all those mining jobs you're always on about? When industries become unsustainable in particular areas, labour moves elsewhere. In some ways, that's the short version of Australian labour history.. There's short-term grief for a few who've invested unwisely or find it hard to move, but people move to where the work is. In this instance there's the unfortunate added factor that some Aboriginal workers will also lose their jobs, but there's nothing to stop mining companies from employing them too, is there?

Interesting you raise the possibility of litigation - sounds like a nice smokescreen to deflect attention from the Inquiry's likely findings. I think you'll find attitudes like yours will be distinctly on the nose in the live exports industry once the dust settles - if it still exists, that is :)
Posted by morganzola, Sunday, 3 July 2011 7:00:54 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Morgan, it is really up to individuals where they decide to work.
But in my experience, if a Govt purposefully destroys an industry
which is quite sustainable, they are unlikely to stay in Govt.
At that moment, live exports will be back.

As to class action, you are free to shoot the messenger, but the
talk in the agriculutural press is one worth 5 billion. For of course
some of those works in Indonesia are up to international standards,
stun guns and all, and there was no good reason to shut them down.

Gertrude, I have no idea from where you drag your figures, but in
2009, Indonesia took 772'868 cattle. Yes, they are trying to breed
more of their own, but easier said then done, they still have to
convince their farmers. Meantime their population is growing and
so is beef consumption.

Meantime with all this kerfuffle and Australia being seen as an unreliable
supplier, the Indonesians could well decide to chop down more rainforest and grow their own.

In that case AA and RCPCA = Orangutan killers
Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 3 July 2011 7:50:44 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yabby,
Fair enough, & i will think if there is a way to disclose where that came from( without giving other info to public.)
Mean time- lets jut say what if for eg Indonesian Directorate General of Livestock Services (DGLS with Indonesia's Trade Minister,
Dr Pangestu might have mentioned in 2010(may) Intentions re restrict intake with view t being fully sufficient by 2014.
Could that have been forget in a hand over- don’t know.
Would it ring alarm bells. For a poly- probably not imop. You’d wonder if Ludwig knows even now. Sometimes the answer is so simple.
Why do we put pollies in charge of unique industries.

Would others have known – imop yep
Did AA know this - don’t know, maybe possibly , clever, coincidence, does it matter now.
But ask yourself this- As Indonesia is so close why wait until now. Perhaps a shrewd political move. Whatever it was we thank them anyway because no decent person allows stock to be treated like that.

Spare me Yabby, I know people who have worked both their ME & Malaysia & horror stories are the norm- so let’s get past that.

What really matters here is they are aiming to be self sufficient by 2014
& Yes they had a setback when locals slaughtered the breeding cattle.
The Indonesian government have banned that now.If you put *everything aside that’s happened & look at what must be done now.
We must open here, fly in some plant workers until we train more of our own.
Those guys were getting 3$ a kilo for good sake. We can do better than that for our growers & Animals.

Demand for chilled Halal & others from Australia is huge- can’t keep up supply.
ALL their orders are 2000 mt + which we can’t supply due to the fight for stock.& of course we don’t have the plants to process.
We have a big future with Saudi if we are smart who are moving towards chilled & love Aussie beef.

The 30% price increase hasn’t swayed them – they can’t get enough.
Posted by Kerryanne, Sunday, 3 July 2011 10:23:17 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yabby,

apologies
That should have read Mean time- lets jut say what if for eg Indonesian Directorate General of Livestock Services (DGLS with Indonesia's Trade Minister,Stephen Smith raised the issue Indonesia aimed at being self sufficient by 2014.
Indonesian government are forming a collective strategy to have Malaysia as world Halal Hub & deals are already in place with Pakistan.
Saudi could be EASILY still brought on board with Australia not happy all together with that thought ( but warming to it)
There is still time to set up the greatest agriculture system doing it here.

They are forward thinkers, clever biz people & food to them is all important. They are very concerned about diseases & we have a vast country for a proper immigration system . A Roger was WA could pump the water. Saudi are too very aware of the worldwide push to ban live exports. I understand the loyalty thing to the industry- i do.But there's no reason those ships cant be decked out with freezers.
No harm to truckers & they do 2 trips instead of one.
Yes short term people up NT will be peeved but the rest of us think truck them south because were are not investing $ into something that ends in 2014. Rather put public's $ here.
On a personal note I would like to add as well think it cruel to put wild animals on ships at all.
Now pls before u start with your predictable come back about floating feed lots- just consider some of the other points I have raised.
Posted by Kerryanne, Sunday, 3 July 2011 10:45:16 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
A partial ban on the 100s of small poorly equipped abattoirs would have had far less impact on the farmers and beef market in Australia, while giving the Indonesians time to implement solutions.

What we have presently is a stoppage that leaves 1000s of young cattle stranded, often without sufficient food, and all farmers in the country facing losses from very low beef prices.

While the Indonesians as pointed out indicated that they wished to reduce imports by 75%, this was going to happen slowly over several years and would be matched by either new markets or farmers changing their product mix. While the Indonesians have boosted local production, the increasing desire for meat has meant that their import reliance is reducing slower than originally intended.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 4 July 2011 5:38:04 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
[Deleted for abuse.]
Posted by Kerryanne, Monday, 4 July 2011 7:14:16 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
*Well we can speak of the whats ifs & sit on our veranda chewing our cud.*

Speak for yourself there Gertrude, but of course that explains alot :)
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 4 July 2011 8:59:30 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yabby

The fact you asked for my comments to be removed only supports my claims of why your really posting. Your pro liberal agenda is very clear. My proposal re opening plants is on record. As for liberal party that you support lets talk about their track record for Animal Welfare.

Tony Abbott going to Indonesia will only make things worse. Even if for no other reason because like many Aussies they really dont like the guy. I mean they really really dont like the guy. Thats just a bit of local knowledge for you.

The libs that you are in here to support have a far worse record on Animal Welfare. In fact if anybody is to blame for this mess now in my opinion its the liberals. Had they of fixed up these problems after several enquiers & years and years of being told about this those farmers would not be in the position they are now.

The liberal party brought great shame with their live exports.

Great Shame to each and every Australian with their pro live exports and bugger animal welfare or value adding.

The liberal party has shipped off our jobs raw material for years.

The liberal party are our nations greatest shame in regards to animal welfare.

So you support the libs but they wont get my vote
Posted by Kerryanne, Monday, 4 July 2011 5:38:15 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Mr pro Liberal party poster.

A *partial ban. What a load of political spin. No such thing. We have no say which plants they go to once they leave AU.

You know that but hey whats a "" you think"" a political point says Yabby.

Before we move on hows your girlfriend Amanda going - You know the member of he liberal party that shamed Australia with her direct

Senator Vanstone and her husband, Tony, have shares in Brinkley Piggery Investments, Wasley's Piggery Management, Wasley's Investments, Auspork Ltd and Australian Pork Farms Pty Ltd.

At least our PM did the right thing & I have little doubt she will be returned to office.

Yep Laborer live cattle policy farmers put on welfare by our PM and told to clean up their act in the face of brutal treatment of their animals. As many plan purposely starve animals & allow them to die of thirst & hunger or shoot them to blame AA & RSPCA it will of course back fire. I was saying before i was so rudely interrupted they can sit there chewing their cuds or truck them out.

Many have decided to let them die of thirst - of shoot them to send a message to the government and public.
I am quite sure it will do just that. It will confirm once and for all the industry is not sustainable
Posted by Kerryanne, Monday, 4 July 2011 6:50:21 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Actually Gerturde, you continue to show extremely poor judgement,
but that is not new. As a matter of fact, I have never complained
about a post, apart from those who try and post commercial
advertisements.

Cattle will die of hunger and thirst, as pastoralists won't have
the money to finance musters. The local market does not pay enough.

The closing of the overseas supply chain has already been well
documented. Exporters will be responsible for the animals which
they export and if those animals go elsewhere, they will lose their
export licenses. Every meatworks will have an animal welfare officer
stationed in Indonesia. Thirty are being trained right now.

AAco are indeed building a cattle export works in Darwin, as the
cost of freighting cattle south makes the industry unviable, for
animals which are too heavy etc.

The Indonesian supply chain is an amazingly efficient one. We have
the land to run breeders, they have the land to run feedlots and
operate year round. What really should happen is for more modern
meatworks to be built in Indonesia, so that cattle can be fattened
and slaughtered there and the meat exported elsewhere in Asia. They
can do it far more efficiently and at lower cost then we can.

That may well yet happen.

At the end of the day, sound economics has to rule, not the world
according to the animal liberation movement.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 4 July 2011 7:27:57 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Kerryanne,

As you and labor obviously care very little for the farmers that are going to suffer, or the animals that will take the place of the Australian cattle, it is far easier to punish the innocent than try and fix the problem.

What is clear is that any political capital with Indonesia has been thrown away, and that most of the leverage has gone too. The unsupported bile you spew cannot make up for the incompetence of the Labor decision.

I see you got the boot as will Labor in a couple of years.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 4 July 2011 7:51:22 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Look I note this whole forum is anti ALP- not just this thread.
If my comments are going to be deleted because I point out a few home truths about Abbott then I wont waist my time.
Yabbyshadow You stay here trying to earn political points for the libs.


Your here to -- for the libs

They have the worst track record of Animal Welfare In Australia.

Had they acted when live exports had been reported before we wouldnt have this trouble now.

I have never met such a nasty group of people in my life.

We have people attacking me personally especially on the other thread- yet they remain- ok

My crime is according to Yabby that we formed a group of Australian Muslim leaders to assist us to bring in investors to help farmers and improve animal welfare.

My other crime is from the animal lovers that we formed a group of people & we worked hard unpaid to put an alternative at least on the table.

Thats my crime- our crime- because we care about Australia and Animal Welfare.

Interesting to note that applies to RSPCA National too- They wanted help to oppose ritual slaughter- or did they.? We gave them that support. Nope not interested. Why does RSPCA National I ask again not want to work with the only Animal Welfare Muslim Association in Australia?

As the farmers ask what is really going on with these people

Bugged if we know stuffed if we know!

I might open a thread before i leave about RSPCA National because I think farmers and public need the whole truth and nothing but!
!
Posted by Kerryanne, Monday, 4 July 2011 9:57:03 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Kerryanne,

I saw the post that was deleted, and it contained abusive language again several posters. However strongly you feel about your cause, this is not acceptable behaviour. Crying "victim" like a petulant child convinces no one.

While your opinion is very important to you, it carries little weight with others. If you wish to have any chance of changing others' opinions, then provide facts or at least reasoned argument. So far I have seen nothing.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 5 July 2011 6:05:17 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Shadow Minister,
I still maintain my post was taken off because of my comments on the liberal party and their appalling past record on animal welfare.
I still claim SM & Yabby are the same person. I still suspect Yabbys motivations are the drum up support for the libs & run anti ALP policy.
I still feel that is Yabbys motivation with a possible interests in investments in shipping & because he thinks being a member of mla they will like him.
I offered far more than you have - i so much as alternatives to live exports.
The fact that Yabby thinks I should buy the abattoirs myself only goes to show his arrogance imop. Everybody should want more value adding & a better deal for the animals too.
My biggest criticism however must go to Heather CEO RSPCA, Jenny Hodges Hugh Wirth x RSPCA President now WSPA and Gleynse of Animals Australia.
The very best thing that could happen for the animals is if the all resigned and put in some informed but Animal Welfare concerned *men with at least a background of farming & industry- with a goal to support pre stunning & create more free range farms& slaughter as close to origin as sensibly possible
Posted by Kerryanne, Tuesday, 5 July 2011 1:04:02 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
SM
"The local abattoirs prefer different breeds of cattle to those bred for live export, and so as mentioned above, the prices obtained are so low that often it costs more to transport them."

Not so SM and if you take off your liberal party hat for a moment you might see the opportunities here for onshore processing instead of choosing to find the negative in all ALP policies.

Shipping processed halal meat to meet the demands of an overseas market is also providing new job opportunities and you can transport more boxed meat on a ship than live animals - a win-win.

Don't be another sheep falling for the spin from the meat and livestock people on this issue.
Posted by pelican, Tuesday, 5 July 2011 4:36:34 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
*falling for the spin from the meat and livestock people on this issue.*

Sheesh, quite correct Pelican. What would the meat and livestock
people know about meat and livestock. Some of our suburban housewives
have all the answers. Best they rush out with their savings and
go and build those plants as soon as possible. If they lose the
lot, well perhaps they did not know best after all.
Posted by Yabby, Tuesday, 5 July 2011 5:23:51 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/content/201107/s3261745.htm

This is why I am so passionate about this issue, Gertrude. I've had
to get the gun out and shoot livestock, dig holes, when there was
nowhere for them to go. Understanding stocking rates and feed
planning are critical in livestock farming.

Nico Bota now has to shoot 3000 cattle, before disaster hits the
rest of the herd. What does our RSPCA say? Ah the industry fund
will save him. Yeah, 25'000$, that will buy the bullets. Ludwig
says "Centrelink". These guys have not the foggiest idea of
what the actual problem is.

This has been my point all along. The live trade plays an absolutaly
critical role in moving large numbers of livestock swiftly, when
we have droughts. Without them we frankly would be stuffed. Nobody
is going to invest in meat plants which stand around empty and staffed, in case droughts hit.

Since rainfall varies, livestock turnoff varies accordingly. Removing
the live trade option from the equation would create all sorts of
environmental and animal welfare disasters, which you people simply
do not understand.
Posted by Yabby, Tuesday, 5 July 2011 6:22:23 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
*This is why I am so passionate about this issue, Gertrude.*
:) Dearest Yabby, your so predictable, but it looks like Gertude is ahead of you on the bush telegraph. Pls allow me to enlighten u
( as if u didnt already know) the *real reason & plans from up yonder.
I will address the answer to droughts & flood loss after.

THE PLAN=

Those perceptions are built from what they read, hear and see in the media. Perceptions can easily be turned into belief and the truth by those practiced in the media. The easiest way to discredit Lyn White and the RSPCA is to start a whisper about fraud, pre-meditation and so on... and that is what has happened. The farmers, the producers, your future market, are persuaded by the information they are receiving, that something smells.

It is the strike back from the vested interests in the live trade. Discredit your opposition. When you have time get a DVD called 'Wag the Dog'.

Shooting cattle & footage of cattle dieing of thirst and starvation is the plan. Blame RSPCA , AA & turn the public against them .

Btw Do not put a sub into the inquiry supporting them & they will talk after the inquiry.

Do not be seen supporting RSPCA AA is best advise. Dont do it.

& So Yabby, do you really think the PLAN will work? Dont you think the public are smart enough to know they could have/ should have started trucking them/ shipping them out a month ago.

My personal feelings

1 I would be happy to assist shooting them humanly & very pleased at least those ones dies quickly on AU soil. First good night sleep I would have had in ages. Quick death Thankyou Lyn.
Posted by Kerryanne, Tuesday, 5 July 2011 9:39:10 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
No Gertrude, the problem is that you don't understand the basic
logistics of livestock farming and what happens when lots of growers
have to act at the same time.

Do you think we got the guns out and shot sheep on masse for fun
or for tv? We did it as no meatworks could handle them and they
had to go. They were ewes so at that time could not go on a boat.

You have never had to shoot your own livestock, you'll never
understand.

Bota is a wise man, he's acting now, not when the place is bare
and the animals are dying. I've seen it before, some can't bring
themselves to do it and the suffering is something that you city slickers
just cannot get your city minds around.

You mean well, that is about all. Lots of feeling and no knowledge
leads to inevitable disaster. We've seen by the comments of Ludwig
and the RSPCA, they they know nothing about this topic and
the RSPCA should really stick to pets, they know nothing about
the livestock industry or how it functions.

WA, due to its isolation, has these problems to a far greater
degree then the East. But then you clearly know even less about
WA.
Posted by Yabby, Tuesday, 5 July 2011 10:16:42 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yabby,
*Ludwig says "Centrelink". These guys have not the foggiest idea of
what the actual problem is.*

Dear Yabby,
Ca you pls explain what is the difference between them going on center link and the thousands and thousands of meat workers Australia wide that were forced to go on centrelink?
Oh, accept they got an extra 30 mill more than the meat workers.

* Absolutely critical role in moving large numbers of livestock swiftly, when we have droughts.*
We really need date Oz wide to pin point areas most often effected because it would appear some farms are just not sustainable. Then the Government have to bail them out. Not the best way to spend public $s.

*Nobody is going to invest in meat plants which stand around empty and staffed, in case droughts hit.*
Just tonight one email & one call-- u were saying--

*Since rainfall varies, livestock turnoff varies accordingly. Removing
the live trade option from the equation would create all sorts of
environmental and animal welfare disasters, which you people simply
do not understand.*

Oh I understand the problem Yabby if you cant get them out quickly in known drought and flood areas its a disaster. It leads to long deaths of animals & a huge cost to tax payers over & over * & over again. Yes I think I have got that. The answer is obvious to all but you dear Yabbs.

Now I will go back to chewing my cud & I hope those farmers are now feeling what are abattoir workers have felt for years & years.

But listen to this tons of farmers support Lyn White RSPCA & AA.

There is a surprising amount of people in the farming industry who support them 200% FACT
Posted by Kerryanne, Tuesday, 5 July 2011 10:19:45 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Bota is a wise man, he's acting now, not when the place is bare
and the animals are dying.

Trust me they are ALL like maniacs with hatred& revenge. Its like a fever pitch up there- but offers to move them south rejected.

*just cannot get your city minds around.*
You forget I am no city girl worked station when i was younger for the horses. why do u think AA and the others clash so much. Dont like offices computers or snobs.

*You mean well, that is about all.*

*Lots of feeling and no knowledge leads to inevitable disaster.
Yes which is why I get farmers & buyers together. Cant do it without farmers thats for sure. We just have great contacts with Muslim meat buyers- not rocket science. Iam nothing special just a messenger tbo.

We've seen by the comments of Ludwig and the RSPCA.. Yep agreed.
I hold a different cautious view on RSPCA tbo. Think about it. Lyn turns up with footage to RSPCA head office-- imop all RSPCA staff are funded by fed & state Gov but what can they say-- sorry Lyn we are not interested? I think poor old Lyns dragging them along- smart move Lyn good girl but watch your back

WA, Ok tell me- so far we think plant each 500 ks smaller ones and pump water..
Posted by Kerryanne, Tuesday, 5 July 2011 10:36:33 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Gertrude, to be honest, you've ranted and raved for years, but so
far haven't achieved anything except annoy lots of people. You
don't understand how the economy works and you don't understand
the meat industry. You then wonder why people won't deal with
you.

Those meatworkers you keep talking about seem to have vanished,
because when meatworks try to find workers, Aussies turn them
down, 457 workers keep the industry going.

A worker losing his job, can find another job. Somebody who has
invested his life and often more then one generation in building
a dream, a business and a lifestyle, commits everything. You
claim to care about animals. When people in charge of large
numbers of animals are in crisis, I can tell you its often not
too nice for the animals, because they stop thinking rationally.
All very sad, but its reality.

If you think that building meatworks is the answer, go right ahead.
I won't hold my breath lol. You've never run a station and had
to make the big decisions. You rode a horse, big deal.

Come back when you have actually achieved something, not just
flapped your arms.

The cattle in the north are not suitable to ship south, the ones
being shot are the old ones. They would not make the trip and
meatworks want meat, not skin and bones.

The answer for the industry is clear. Install modern humane technolgy
in the third world, third world animals will benefit too. That
is how progress is made, one step at a time, with viable industries.
Posted by Yabby, Tuesday, 5 July 2011 11:03:17 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yabby,
I will let you in on a little secret. There are plans underway for WA right now & more will follow. So you just rest easy knowing those boats can be fitted out with freezers ok. It wont cost much more.
Sure it will take time & its pity we didnt start before but we can only blame the liberal party for that. ( well both)
We will end up with 3% going live imop if any at all.
Those 3% will be much easier to monitor. Things change with time & this industry will be no different.
Now thats all sorted can I interest you in my Halal Vegetable programe for Saudi etc. Interesting facts are appearing too. Did you know Yabbs there is more *profit in the future in exporting Halal accredited vegetables & cosmetics than meat product.- true

- You see its all in the figures really. Your a figures man- It costs about $220 to $245 to process a beast & operation costs. If you add on the amount of water a cow drinks to some crops its a good result. In ten years a farmer will realise he gets a higher return doing that then growing Animals.

But that I agree IS well down the track.
Posted by Kerryanne, Tuesday, 5 July 2011 11:05:39 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Gertrude, we have heard it all before dear. The would be and could
be and the plans. Now get back when you have actually achieved
something.
Posted by Yabby, Tuesday, 5 July 2011 11:18:19 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yabby,

If you were really in WA Agriculture & the meat industry you would have already heard about WA

As far as ME achieving something- anything I am not going to disclose here just where we have been able to make a difference. Instead I will say this- at least we are trying to open plants for farmers to give them alternatives & slaughter their animals in a proper fashion. That is far more than your doing stuck in your 19th century time zone peddling your evil trade of live exports.

Darn It now I will be out of posts what a waste your a pest!
Posted by Kerryanne, Tuesday, 5 July 2011 11:27:07 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yabby

I didn’t see this comment ok-

*Gertrude, to be honest, *
Um & U haven’t.? At least I have had a plan. Yours is to continue to breed to send animals to BARBARIC deaths
You take 1st prize on annoying.

*You don't understand how the economy*

. No YOU don’t its unsustainable. Public have funded it for years -*no more. Value adding is what the economy needs.

*Those meat-workers ,*
Yep the industry destroyed them thousands of them 20 years + ago.

*457 workers keep the industry going.*
Plenty available until migrants wanting regional housing are trained.

*A worker losing his job, can find another job.*

Yes the mines remember .?

* Somebody who has invested his life *
Such a good little liberal you are. So according to you meat workers didn’t invest in homes their lives—& they dont matter.?

There was no mercury from the live export industry. They have sat back and laughed as men committed suicide to 20 years + after losing THEIR dreams their Abattoirs & business.

*You claim to care about animals. *

Yes correct- this must ever happen again. When Indonesia told Australia they were stopped.

Come back when .. I will come back when I like as I wish sunshine but you are free to leave if u wish.

The cattle in the north are not ... Pity MLA and the Minister didn’t tell them Indonesia were winding up BUT


*The answer for the industry is clear. Install modern humane technology*
With WHOSE money. ? No more Aussie tax pays $ going off shore to pay for Elders etc. It will be spend here. Just watch the public go berserk if they hear their $ is going to live exports that they oppose.
You got away with it for years- but not now.

*in the third world, third world animals will benefit too.*
You would think that. You would think people wouldn’t continue to help animals in 3rd world countries
60 years + the industry has had- Its over Yabby. As I said 3% maybe—will go live.
Posted by Kerryanne, Wednesday, 6 July 2011 1:01:39 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Pelican,

"Not so SM and if you take off your liberal party hat for a moment you might see the opportunities here for onshore processing instead of choosing to find the negative in all ALP policies.

Shipping processed halal meat to meet the demands of an overseas market is also providing new job opportunities and you can transport more boxed meat on a ship than live animals - a win-win."

I'm sorry, but that is complete rubbish! The cattle are not the preferred breed for Australia, and the reason that the live cattle trade exists is largely because there is not the infrastructure to ship frozen meat in Indonesia.

Why else are farmers resorting to shooting their own live stock!
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 6 July 2011 6:08:21 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
THE PLAN= &

*Those perceptions are built from what they read, hear and see in the media.*

* Perceptions can easily be turned into belief and the truth by those practiced in the media.*

* The easiest way to discredit Lyn White and the RSPCA is to start a whisper about fraud, pre-meditation and so on... and that is what has happened.*

*The farmers, the producers, your future market, are persuaded by the information they are receiving, that something smells.*

*It is the strike back from the vested interests in the live trade. Discredit your opposition. When you have time get a DVD called 'Wag the Dog'.*

*Shooting cattle & footage of cattle dieing of thirst and starvation is the plan. Blame RSPCA , AA & turn the public against them .*

THE PROBLEM WITH THE PLAN IS -
1 Complaint laid to police, Ludwig s office, Attorney General.

2 Calls for Royal Commission into industry in relation to allegations to conspire to defame RSPCA, Lyn White, 4 Corners.

3 to convert the course of justice & to defame Lyn White
corners RSPCA.

4 To bring about cruelty cases to create media sensation.

5 To allege industry can pay media for sensational story to plants seeds of lies in the Australian public's minds

MLA Malicious Liars Association & Industry in my opinion using our tax $

Our submission to the inquiry will start off with a detailed report of telephone conversations& we have a problem with our answering machine- It gets stuck on- we will blame Patel for that not paying his way.!

A copy of police report & statement will be available to Lyn White RSPCA 4 corners.

We will be calling for a full Royal Commission & happy to give evidence.

I would highly recommend they put their hands up *now to save a Royal Commission & possible charges to convert to course of justice & cruelty charges buy selling overseas plants & investing here.

Of course they are free to ignore the advise & battle it out in a open Royal commission.

Their choice
Posted by Kerryanne, Wednesday, 6 July 2011 8:48:47 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yabby! this post is my honestly held view and is for your information.
I consider my self a good ALP supporter.
That gives me the right and the duty to be honest.
You have stabbed me on the live cattle issue ,I think you should read my posts.
On behalf of every member/supporter of my party who wants better.
This disgraceful event, offering SOCIAL WELFARE is an insult!
Gillard is my leader, I DEEPLY REGRET THAT!
I hold her accountable.
You are aware, we have spoken of it, cradles and a tag system, a long with surveillance could be almost in place now.
Cattle could be on the boats on the way now.
That farmer will shoot his cattle, he must, but he knows as you do,an me.
Animal welfare groups would spin it as cruelty.
This country's farm land has many 100,s of mass graves, of starvation or culled cattle killed without option.
Mate know this, every political party gets it wrong, to say not so about our own is a lie.
Constant improvement demands some one in my party pay for this stupid action.
You know I exile myself from these threads,no real progress can be found.
But ask these questions.
how did Lyn White get the film.
Why was action not taken years ago by government and MLA.
Last you debate in a place that makes my head spin is it about the Muslim way of killing,export of Muslim killed boxed meat, profit making from those.
I thought it was about cruelty to animals not commercial gains.
There it is an active member of the ALP far from the only one hand up in the air we got this awfully wrong
HOWEVER Rudd flys out tomorrow at his worst he is better than the fools he will fix this for.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 6 July 2011 4:51:18 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Belly, you and I figured out a simple solution right at the start
of the debate on this topic. What has come out is that some of
those people sitting in offices, simply don't understand agriculture
and how and why it functions as it does.

Anyhow I hope that Rudd can fix things and get them moving again,
before there is a complete disaster in the North.

The RSPCA will have to decide if they are for animal welfare or
animal liberation, for it looks like they have been hijacked in
that direction.

Hopefully some good will come out of it all, like some humane and
well designed slaughter equipment for the third world. Livestock
from many nations will benefit.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 6 July 2011 5:52:11 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Fortunately labor has caved in to common sense!

"Australia's ban on live cattle exports to Indonesia has been lifted, Federal Agriculture Minister Joe Ludwig says. Senator Ludwig said he was confident Indonesian abattoirs could now meet Australian standards."

I am sure that Indonesia has completely revamped their abattoirs in the last couple of weeks! Or they realised that the ban was simply another media inspired labor stuff up!

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/australia-to-resume-cattle-trade-to-indonesia-20110706-1h29m.html
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 6 July 2011 8:00:29 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yes SM, I heared the good news a short time ago! They will do
what they have been doing in Egypt, just close the supply chain and
limit the works which can handle them. It will take a huge
pressure off the North. I think they only just averted complete
disaster up there. These animal liberation groups just don't
understand agriculture, neither the implications of what they are
calling for.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 6 July 2011 8:10:01 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Labor was never going to ban live exports completely mores the pity - it was a knee jerk reaction to the 4Corners Program. No real backbone there but none expected.

SM
Australia donates huge amounts of aid to Indonesia every year much of it goes missing, I am sure some creative folk could easily solve the problem of refrigeration.

Finding solutions is about being creative. You keep talking about the breed of cattle - what difference is the breed whether it is shipped live or frozen. Your point is not clear.
Posted by pelican, Wednesday, 6 July 2011 10:11:39 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Nothing like the threat of pictures of 3000 dead cattle, flashed up on all our TV screens to make these stupid poll driven twits in Canberra see some sense.

3000 dead cattle lying uselessly in a paddock, after being shot by their desperate owner would have highlighted just how incompetent these fools are.

It really is getting hard to believe that anyone can get so much wrong, so completely, so often.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 6 July 2011 10:48:43 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
*No real backbone there but none expected.*

Its not about backbone Pelican, but about facts and understanding
the industry, which you clearly do not.

As a consumer you claim to want good meat, yet now you want to
try and force meatworks to produce crap meat, which they will
have trouble selling. The cattle going to Indonesia are too small
to slaughter at 350kg. They need feedlotting. Take cattle for
slaughter straight off the stations, you will land up with skin,
bones and gristle. The North does not have the feed for feedlots,
trucking it up north is simply too expensive.

Trucking cattle south does not make sense either. Bos Indicus don't
like our cold weather. Freight kills the thing. Premium markets
don't want Bos Indicus either, they want British breeds or Waygu
infused.

AACo have in fact just advertised some key positions for an abattoir
which they are building in Darwin. But they have their own cattle
and land to ensure the feedlotting and marketing etc. Their plan
is a market based decision as it should be.

What you want to do is simply enforce city based ideology onto
country folk, without a second thought about the consequences,
economic or animal welfare wise. Disaster follows.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 6 July 2011 11:27:23 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
#Nothing like the threat of pictures of 3000 dead cattle#
Well that is now are criminal investigation - so i wont comment - other than to say imop charges will be laid.
This is not the end- its the beginning of the end.

http://amieu.net/files/pdf/Fact%20Sheet%20-%20MLA%20and%20LiveCorp%20knew%20in%20May%202010%20about%20the%20practices%20occurring%20in%20Indonesian%20abattoirs.pdf
Fact Sheet: Were the MLA and LiveCorp Aware of the Horrific Slaughtering Practices in Indonesia Prior to June 2011?
The

Issue 5 – Excessive cuts attempting to sever carotid artery
The Four Corners program aired footage of Slaughterers using up to 33 cuts to slaughter an animal. Professor Caple also indicated during an interview aired on the program that the panel had observed a similar practice of a Slaughterer attempting up to 18 cuts to slaughter an animal. This is confirmed by the report at page 32:

“In particular, at one abattoir in West Java, the incision was made with a single cut to the neck, whereas at an abattoir in Sumatra the neck was struck with a knife using a hard impact to sever the skin above the larynx and then up to 18 cuts were made to sever the neck and both arteries.”

Issue 6 – False Aneurysm Formation
False aneurysm formation is a significant animal welfare issue that really only a skilled, professional eye can pick up. The bluntest way it can be described is that it results in a slower painful death for the animal. Viewers of the graphic images on Four Corners could not be expected to be aware of it. The report on page 32 indicates:
“Although on all occasions both carotid arteries were completely cut, bleeding was significantly impaired in 10% of cattle due to false aneurysm formation in both carotid arteries, possibly resulting in extended consciousness. The SOP does not currently include guidelines for the management of occluded arteries and false aneurysm and slaughtermen were not observed to appreciate this as being a potential animal welfare issue.”
Issue 7 – Throwing buckets of water at immobilized animal
Posted by Kerryanne, Wednesday, 6 July 2011 11:28:17 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Issue 8 – Traditional slaughter
Of the most graphic and horrific images shown on Four Corners, the “traditional slaughter” method was amongst the worst. This is the process where Australian cattle were subjected to a 20 to 30 minute
process of “roping down” without the use of a restraining box. Cruel methods to force the animal to recumbency are often used.
The report at page 30 states:
“Restraining boxes were observed to be used when available with traditional slaughter observed in one location.”
And at page 33:

And at page 33:
“The slaughter of Australian cattle in Indonesia was assessed against the OIE Code. A range of facilities and slaughter methods were observed including traditional slaughter, assisted traditional slaughter incorporating restraining boxes and slaughter using westernised abattoir facilities.”
The report makes clear that of the 29 animals viewed being slaughtered, at least 3 were done by traditional slaughter.
Conclusion
It is to be steadfastly borne in mind that the report on animal welfare issues in the slaughtering process only dealt with a small and random sample of 29 animals slaughtered. Yet all of the practices aired on Four Corners were quite apparent in this very small and random sample.
There is irrefutably evidence that as at May 2010, the MLA and LiveCorp were put clearly on notice as to the animal welfare issues that were demonstrated graphically by the Four Corners program “A Bloody Business”.
Moreover, the evidence was forwarded to DAFF. A significant issue is what action they took, if any, and whether the Minister was briefed on the situation.

Shame on you belly yabby & this is going on world wide.

After the inquiry you will see more footage- a lot more

It will hit the public even harder than Indonesia.

And far more than just one country
Posted by Kerryanne, Wednesday, 6 July 2011 11:33:46 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
*The cattle going to Indonesia are too small*
to slaughter at 350kg. They need feedlotting

Yabby,

You have just yet again enforced the industry as it stands is totally unsustainable . So now your saying Australia cant run this bloody barbaric industry without Indonesia feed lots. Well in 2014 if its not banned before they are NOT taking anymore. Or what if there were no boats -- they all left for boat heaven-- now there is a thought.

Before the greedy industry over farmed this country flourished with dozens of plants in areas of good feed and fat stock.

* Bos Indicus don't*
\
Yeh thats why you dont mind them being hosed for 30 minutes in feezing water while having their eyes pulled out tired and alive.

I KNOW your not into cattle- so your just a sadistic. chop heads off puppies & thinks nothing of it.

*What you want to do is simply enforce city based ideolog*

You honestly think the tax payers have no say in this. You think we should keep paying taxes to set elders and the likes up in their own private business OUT of Australia- such arrogance!

The city folk WILL have there say & the vetted interests of the low lifes involved will NOT be heard over the demands of the public.

As far as people being given welfare goes belly thats a lot more than many meat workers got years ago as plants closed due to live exports.

AMIEU havent even started yet- at least there are some real alp blokes left i guess.

What was that you said I am TRUE loyal ALP but I hate our Prime Minister.

But thanks You got to laugh at posts like that i guess

Makes it all worth while really:)
Posted by Kerryanne, Thursday, 7 July 2011 12:11:35 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Nothing like the threat of ending the live export trade altogether for the various players in the live export industry at both ends to belatedly get their acts together on animal welfare.

Full marks to AA, the RSPCA and even the Gillard government for a change. Just goes to show what you can do if you make a tough but correct decision and stick to your guns. This is a win-win result.
Posted by morganzola, Thursday, 7 July 2011 12:53:45 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I tread on broken glass while walking in a mine Field here.
My honestly held view, that yes it was an over reaction/it could have been fixed faster.
That uninformed emotionalism, even commercial interests in stopping this trade got in the way.
I have my slippers on,creeping so as not to needlessly hurt the feelings of those groups who combined to? well who knows what they wanted.
Today, here in Australia, how many sheep cattle goats a host of living things will be killed for food.
Turkeys Chickens, Sea food cooked alive or left to die on the deck.
Such is life and death, out there some hundreds of places home kills are taking place.
Some can not except death, would react this way in any place meat is packed.
That is of no concern,what frightens me,true, is the increasing attempts by such uninformed folk to impose their failure to under stand on us all.
Yes Yabby we could have done this without a ban.
I leave now tip toe out of the thread ,dangerous country for those who put problem solving before emotions.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 7 July 2011 5:33:51 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Morgan, your point is as logical as saying that because Tiger
airlines have a safety problem, we'll shut the whole airline
industry down, that will teach them.
Posted by Yabby, Thursday, 7 July 2011 6:51:18 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yet another Labor back flip, followed by a solution that involves a layer of bureaucracy and a paper chase. Most of this could have been achieved by a partial ban on offending abattoirs whilst the tracking was put in place.

What we have now is Indonesia intends to source much of its live cattle elsewhere, and also its imports of frozen beef. Another own goal.

Pelican,

The live export cattle are a specific breed so that they can be matured at a low weight which is easy to ship, and fattened at feed lots in Indonesia before going to the abattoir. These requirements do not apply in Australia, and thus the different criteria for the breed of cattle. I would try reading the papers before posting nonsense.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 7 July 2011 7:34:09 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
That's a spurious analogy, Yabby. The Tiger case is a single rogue operator identified in an industry with well-established regulatory systems and protocols to ensure safety. In the case of live exports to Indonesia, violations of international animal welfare standards appear to be endemic among processors in Indonesia, partly because no effective system had been put in place to monitor them until AA and 4 Corners forced the issue, causing the Federal government to act decisively for a change.

For your analogy to hold, the airline safety breaches would have to be widespread across that industry, which had been aware of them for some years but failed repeatedly to act on breaches brought to its collective attention by NGOs. In this case, the government has demonstrated in no uncertain terms to all involved in the industry both here and in Indonesia that Australia will not participate in trade that involves needless cruelty to animals. Finally, Australian producers and transporters, as well as Indonesian processors, have been forced - however reluctantly - to lift their game with respect to animal welfare in the live exports industry.

As I said, it's a win-win outcome - the live exports trade to Indonesia will be allowed to resume, subject to stringently applied conditions to ensure humane treatment of livestock at every stage of the supply chain. Surely this is ultimately a good result for all concerned, including the animals?

As I also said, this is a rare example of the Gillard government acting decisively and retaining the courage of its convictions in the face of determined opposition from groups with vested interests. I hope they learn from this, such that their newly-found collective backbone might also be exercised in other policy areas, such as its legislative response to AGW. Who knows, people might actually respect the government for developing the 'ticker' to make hard but correct decisions and then sticking by them.

There might be some hope for Gillard yet!
Posted by morganzola, Thursday, 7 July 2011 7:44:58 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
morganzola,

I am stunned ( no pun intended) that you think the problems fixed.
The Minister when asked stated clearly the normal dribble about safety check to the point of slaughter,.
To the POINT of slaughter.

When grilled by the media he has been forced to confess we have NOT any control over the way in which they are slaughtered.

So nothings changed- end of story.

Not even any agreement to use stun guns or have our own inspectors.

Lets get the facts straight
Posted by Kerryanne, Thursday, 7 July 2011 1:23:13 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Gertrude, the minister does not have to be a control freak, to
control the industry. If an exporter does not comply with the
established rules, they lose their export license.

As it happens, MLA had already started to role out their stun
gun programme, with now 10 establishments equipped. MLA
concedes and is developing new humane knock boxes, to replace
the old ones.

Major exporters have already stated that their supply chains
will be using stun guns, some were already before this latest
kerfuffle broke out. IMHO they will all be moving to use them,
as they make good sense.

30 animal welfare officers have been trained and will be checking
on those works where Australian cattle will be slaughtered.

Given that a dozen works in Australia don't use stun guns,
its a bit rich at this time to try to force the Indonesians
to do the same. But that is the way that the whole system
is going and it is in both the animals and industries interests
that it will happen.

I think we'll see some major improvements at the point of slaughter
in the third world and that has to be a good thing. The notion
that only Australian can do it right, is a little bit racist
Posted by Yabby, Thursday, 7 July 2011 1:39:13 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Lyn White - cattle will continue to suffer
http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/content/201107/s3263513.htm

Thursday, 07/07/2011

It was vision recorded by Animals Australia's Lyn White which ultimately led to the suspension of trade a month ago.

She says cattle will continue to suffer unless stunning is made mandatory.

"I'm obviously very disappointed that stunning hasn't been made mandatory in the reopening of the trade, because the major cattle producers, the RSPCA and Animals Australia were completely on the same page with that," she said.

"So it's only the government that's now suggesting that it's acceptable for cattle to still have their throats cut whilst fully conscious."

Yabby

Glenyse can try to claim this as a victory if she wishes but Lyn is correct & those 30 blokes they are training up in ten days have been there ten years!

DAN ZIFFER
THE STEVE VIZARD SHOW
MELBOURNE TALK RADIO

http://www.mtr1377.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6938&Itemid=43
Posted by Kerryanne, Thursday, 7 July 2011 3:47:19 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Ah Gertrude, but of course you and Lyn are behind the times.

We reached a protocol of international standards with Indonesia, which
is as it should be. But the Minister can put his own terms in
the export licences issued to exporters. That came from some
of the vets involved in the whole thing.

So now you can sleep soundly knowing that Australian cattle
will be treated humanely, it will only be third world cattle
which will be tortured, because animal activists refuse to help
in lobbying for decent equipment to be installed, using some
of the 4 billion of development aid which we all fund. So be it.
Posted by Yabby, Thursday, 7 July 2011 5:25:29 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
@ Kerryanne:

Perhaps I was being overly optimistic. I wasn't really paying much attention to Rudd when he was talking about it on TV this morning, but I got the impression that there is going to be strict enforcement of humane slaughtering methods. I suppose to some extent it depends what you mean by 'humane'.

My own view is that pre- stunning should be a mandatory requirement both here and in Indonesia for animals that are to be slaughtered by having their throats cut for whatever reason. However, we can't coherently argue for it to be mandatory in Indonesia while it isn't here - that would be hypocritical in the extreme. It seems to me that the Government has some urgent regulatory work to do to make pre-stunning mandatory in all Australian abattoirs where ritual slaughtering occurs. Mind you, I can't see that being all that difficult with sufficient will - as Yabby says, pre-stunning makes sense.
Posted by morganzola, Thursday, 7 July 2011 5:51:33 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
morganzola,

Hi, Must admit i was surprised- fyi do u have the inquiry online forms? Kerry
http://livexports.com/petition/results.php
http://blog.animaldoctors.com.au/2011/06/live-export-ban-please-join-petition.html

Last night the Government announced it would impose new conditions on live animal exports to Indonesia, and lift the moratorium put in place last month.

Bad news first: sadly, the international standards the Government has announced do not mandate stunning of animals before slaughter.

Now the good news: the Government has also committed to supply chain assurance, which means that each animal exported will be tagged so they can be tracked from the farm to the abattoir.

If we can convince all the exporters to do the same, we can ensure that no Australian cattle are exported to facilities that don't stun animals.

Can you can take a moment to write to cattle exporters today?

www.getup.org.au/exportpledge

Many exporters have already expressed their shock..

Let's act together to call on Australian companies to promise Australians they will only send their cattle to facilities which use stunning.

The Australian Government and the cattle industry know the community will not tolerate that kind of cruelty ...

Let's call on industry to pledge to Australians that cattle will only be sent to abattoirs where that stun before slaughter:

www.getup.org.au/exportpledge

Over the past weeks, over 245,000 Australians have joined together in this campaign to end the cruel treatment of Australian cattle in Indonesian abattoirs. Together we've created the biggest petition in Australian history, and a huge storm in Parliament House. Yesterday's announcement may be disappointing but.. stun animals.

With hope,
the GetUp Team.

PS - RSPCA and Animals Australia are continuing their campaign too. To join, go to www.banliveexports.com.au.
________________________________________
Posted by Kerryanne, Thursday, 7 July 2011 8:08:26 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
SM
I always know when someone is insecure about their own position when their contributions include ad hominem attacks.

You are talking about a specific breed of cattle bred for export which is then eaten by Indonesian consumers. It is the same meat whether it arrives refrigerated and processed or live.

Live exports have already decreased due to the Indonesian Government wishing to support local beef producers as is their right, this is already a bone of trade contention between the two countries. When will people realise that free trade is not free when other countries can start dictating to others about what they can and cannot import/export, especially when they have to compete with variations in government subsidies, governance and other regulations. Indonesia is a poor country and could benefit from investing in local production.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/06/01/live-exports-ban-a-threat-to-delicate-trade-dispute/

A commentator recently said the beef could be processed onshore and shipped or sold to Australian consumers. The meat industry said the supply of meat would push prices down yet at the same time insist that free trade results in cheaper meat for consumers. Something of which Australian consumers have known to be a furphy for some time.

A ban on live exports could be done with a gradual phasing out as proposed by Xenophon and Wilkie.
Posted by pelican, Thursday, 7 July 2011 8:21:37 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Mon

http://au.news.yahoo.com/video/national/watch/25867539/

FROM ABC
Animal welfare concerns

The lift on the ban comes one day before Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd had been due in Jakarta to discuss how to restart the controversial trade.

The Opposition has welcomed the lifting of the ban, but the Greens are outraged by the decision.

Greens Senator Rachel Siewert says there is no guarantee animals will be stunned before they are killed.

"I'm deeply concerned that the Minister for Agriculture's made a serious mistake here," she said.

"We do not believe Indonesia is ready to reopen the trade. The Government cannot guarantee animal welfare standards.

"The Minister's bowed to pressure, he's not looking after the best interests of Australian livestock."

The RSPCA's Lisa Chalk agrees the new conditions are not strict enough.

"The Government may think the conditions are in place but the conditions certainly don't mean animals in Indonesia won't meet a cruel death because they haven't mandated stunning," she said.

"If animals are still going to have their throats cut while they're conscious it's a totally unacceptable animal welfare outcome and we're very disappointed."

The polls line apparently crashed under the pressure of public calling.



The carbon tax on Sunday will not give Ludwig any relief. Nothing but a total ban is demanded now because once again the Government has proved it cant be trusted.

No cattle have left yet. Mr Rudd who refused to disclose to the public at the AWB inquiry ( and it was his job) the money to evidence that while the AWB was knowingly diverting millions to Saddam Hussein�s regime under Iraq�s Oil-for-food scheme, it was also secretly raising cash from interests in the live Animal export trade.

This is what Kevin Rudd HID from the public Even as Shadow Minister??

The names faces of the live exports & family's etc will be featured in adds. Time to STEP up for Animals.



Its a dirty business& the more you look the more unspeakable acts of cruelty and dishonesty you find.

SHAME
Posted by Kerryanne, Thursday, 7 July 2011 8:48:43 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
*A ban on live exports could be done with a gradual phasing out as proposed by Xenophon and Wilkie.*

Ah our sweet Pelican. When it comes to workers she wants a fair
deal for them, with every bell and whistle. But when it comes
to farmers wanting a fair deal, like the ability to trade, to
have competition in the marketplace, she thinks they should
be subsidising local jobs instead.

Never mind many farmers being screwed by a few large processors.
Never mind shooting livestock in times of drought.

Our urban housewife is completely out of touch with the real
world of agriculture.

Pelican wins the gold star of the week for urban naivety
Posted by Yabby, Thursday, 7 July 2011 8:49:54 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yabby,

Now I wouldnt go upsetting the urban housewife's again if I were you.

Look what happened last time:)It will be at least 3 to 4 weeks before the first cattle will do to Elders plants & much loner for others.

At this rate its going to take two years to catch up - just in time for the three years closure- oh thats if its not banned before- & or if more footage doesn't appear.
Australian public wont care either which country its from they will just want all live exports banned.

You only have to open your eyes to see 220 countries if millions wanting the barbaric trade banned.

Thats the beauty of the world royal urban housewife's brigade.
Posted by Kerryanne, Friday, 8 July 2011 1:02:42 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/indonesian-man-ruined-by-cattle-scandal/story-fn3dxity-1226090313196
Yabby you and I may be rough around the edges, not PC.
I think we both want an end to the dreadful way this was done.
Accountability from MLA, heads should roll.
Forget the experts,they produce failure for a living.
Given the chance to look back on our posts we did not stray from the end results.
What do you do, $6 bribe, highlighting not FIXING a problem has cost our country millions, needlessly.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 8 July 2011 3:53:43 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Kerryanne,

While you are gloating, the support for the greens and labor in the northern territories is withering. Juliar's support is already at record lows, the last thing she needs is to make more enemies.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 8 July 2011 1:24:24 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Actually Gertrude, you don't have public support for any ban. You
just have a very noisy group of extreme activists, mostly vegans,
who make a great deal of racket. Yesterday some were on the news
running around in bathers, covered in ketchup, clearly hysterical.
Hardly the smartest of creatures it seems.

Yep the public are against animal cruelty, so that has to be fixed,
as it was in Indonesia. But much of the public can also see through
the spin that is going on. No wonder you got bugger all support
at your public demos.

You Gertrude, do not speak for the public. You speak for yourself.

I remind you that 80% of the public still buy battery laid eggs, so
your claim that the public are for ending the live trade, is a furphy.
Frankly most Australians are simply not interested in the topic.
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 8 July 2011 1:59:32 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yabby,

Yabby, Your SO wrong one hundred thousand member + from public & we are not vegan nor RSPCA
Nor is this lady!

Pamela Gillot: Ban the Live Animal traders Saturday, 2 July 2011 at 1:05am
The cattlemen cry they have bills like $70,00 0 a week for water alone and miss thier income, can anyone imagine how much these families as they call it must then bring in come and why they dont want to switch to processing.

The MLA and Nationals set up an organization to trade "live" animals and simply set pecuniary objectives and no no animal welfare objectives!. Then they did stitch themselves up well and truly. The cattlemen are represented and on the board and they say they didnt know and the reports were "sanitised". - but it was their job to then find out. Duty of care with what your bring into the world!!

The cattlemen took a RISK and knew it with' that' kind of business operation a lucrative business onthe back of animal cruelty. When you sign innocents off to a buyer its for them to do with them as they WILL! And in that region its very bad news for any animal let alone the millions they adhere peddled from our shores. Its a region which has no penalties for animal cruelty and no qualms over how they brutally disable and slaughter an animal.

The live animal traders took a big risk with this business and now they must accept the word is out and the downturn and adjust their production to home processing industry and boxed beef. Indonesia are happy with that its only the top ten percent of income earners and restaurants that eat Australian beef - they dont need "wet markets"' and "warm meat". That market can use refrigeration. What line are we being shot here!
TBC
Posted by Kerryanne, Friday, 8 July 2011 3:07:04 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
continued

It is Australia that wants the live export dollar of quickly turning over young animals. It shoud be made illegal ! They are desperate to hang on to this business because its highly lucrative.The big corporate pastoralists make so much money on sale of these Indonesian businesses, the ilk of $400 million dollars, mostly to foreign investros and make a killing. Meanitme Australian processing industry hit the wall, and abattoirs were all closed,.Australian value added all went off shore.

They now talk about what costs and jobs would be lost! !! And what is a MEDIA corporation belonging to the Packer family doing opening a huge division in the cattle and live animal export business if there weren't mega bucks to be made - and all on the backs of animal misery and torturous cruelty. How do thes guys sleep at night?. What does the world think of our nation now they have made us the worlds 'biggest live animal exporter' and to the world's most brutal animal handlers!.

Sure its the money in quick turn over of under mature animals, unknowingly to be put through the most painful end. Ban these business men.If they were serious cattlemen they would be happy to see their cattle through another three months and on to processing on shore by Australians, on Australian soil and to Australian humane standards.

There are thousands of ordinary people who are members of RSPCA are hundreds of other groups saying KILL them here

Thats not veggie or vegan mr Liberal Man- Its main stream public

Mr Shadow Minister liberal plant promoter

I voted libs all my life but NO more

If Alp and the PM does the right thing- its ALP for me from now on!
Kerry
PS SHAME in the liberal party sitting in parliament screaming sendem anyway- dont matter
Shame on Tony Abbott we dont want him ever as Prime Minister of Australia- goodie Mr Christine values my bum!
Posted by Kerryanne, Friday, 8 July 2011 3:12:31 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
yabby read my link above, as we said two people got bribes $6 each, to let Lyn White in.
You are quite right not one chance in billions a ban will take place.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 8 July 2011 4:02:39 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Shoosh Belly-

dont tell anybody-

but I think Lyn White with the alleged 6 bucks has a bit of catching up to do.:)-

Ah, Yabby your little mates is back to support you- that must be such a comfort. "priceless""

Desperate cover-up in Iraqi &blood money& saga

The Australian Wheat Board (AWB) is desperately working to cover up its connections to the controversial live export trade, according to investigations by an animal welfare group. People against Live Exports (PALE) have uncovered evidence that while the AWB was knowingly diverting millions to Saddam Hussein�s regime under Iraq& Oil-for-food scheme, it was also secretly raising cash from interests in the live Animal export trade.

PALE founder && said the scandal was the best kept secret of the Cole inquiry into the AWB.
;The public line is that the Australian Wheat Board sells wheat. They are very keen to keep it quiet that they have also been raising blood money through their connections to the cruel live export trade,

AWB and the Cole inquiry had gone out of their way to keep information about AWB&s connections to Landmark a secret.

The public has a right to know the facts about this case,

PALE was calling on the government to ensure the Cole inquiry process was transparent and that uncomfortable details about the business dealings were not swept under the carpet.

I do hope you find a sense of humor it all a bit of fun &- you always brighten up our days- seriously your unique.
I mean that in the nicest way true:

Belly said.

*I think we both want an end to the dreadful way this was done.
Accountability from MLA, heads should roll.*

Agreed& 20 years ago! but dont kid yourself Yabby doesn't care about the cattle- & hes not! a cattle man. Hes imop all hat and no cattle- do u know that song?

Nay Yabbs is a liberal puppet. Liberal to every miserable bone in his body- arnt u yabb. Hes our enemy Belly - us mates have got to stick together ah:)
Posted by Kerryanne, Friday, 8 July 2011 7:52:06 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi Belly, yes I saw that one, thanks. We'll let the inquiry dig
up the truth. There was certainly plenty of cpin in that campaign.

Ok, back to the hot cup of tea.... I 've got the flu .
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 8 July 2011 9:39:57 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
See Belly- no big cowboy image there- poor Mr miserable liberal.

No doubt off to bed with his hot tea ( how very English) and isn't it just as well he has Shadow Minister & Banjo there with him:)
Posted by Kerryanne, Saturday, 9 July 2011 11:49:11 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I would hope you will not use my name in slagging of people.
I will continue to try to avoid your threads in self defense.
But do read them.
Do you understand in one of your current ones, one that seems to , now if I am wrong I say sorry, be to slag off the RSPCA.
In quoting one of my hero's Gandhi, you said a nation was judged on how it handles its animals.
Gandhi did come from,well you tell me.
Last it is because of battle fatigue, the long needless unwanted war with P.A.L.E. I retreat from further contact.
Banjo and Yabby on this issue mostly speak for me.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 9 July 2011 1:49:02 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Belly
Actually no I wasn't .You yet again misunderstand a joke as u so often do!!
I like the expression - just for the record.
I remind u am not posting as pale""= Still whatever ..

""In quoting one of my hero's Gandhi,"" you said a nation was judged on how it handles its animals.
I didnt actually let you off the hook back there TBO & I was in two minds about it knowing what a sensitive little petal you are.

BUT- now you say Gandhi is one of your heroes then I might draw your attention to this with a please explain=?

**What do you do, $6 bribe, highlighting not FIXING a problem**

what do you think Belly your hero's Gandhi, would say to that.
Come on , your having a go at Lyn White for exposing gross cruelty to our Australian farm animals.

You"" Belly are siding with the people who push this evil trade.

But I let you off because you DID Way this .>

##I think we both want an end to the dreadful way this was done.
Accountability from MLA, heads should roll.
Forget the experts,they produce failure for a living.
Given the chance to look back on our posts we did not stray from the end results.##

I thought ( silly of me) perhaps you had seen read/ heard a bit more on had bad this problem really is-

Like I said Belly what would your hero think of that- more important as a MAN what do YOU think about it.

Before you answer be assured the ONLY way to controlled the way they are slaughtered is to kill them here.

The ONLY ones against that are the middle man like Elders who have been controlling the trade$ deals and screwing the REAL farmers for donkeys years .

It doesn't make you the MAN to stand among men- what makes the MAN is the man who ""stands"" out among the men.

Anyway, you must come back because I found Yabbys song!:
Posted by Kerryanne, Saturday, 9 July 2011 4:33:34 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I see labor is dishing out welfare to compensate for the carbon tax too.

For a party that supposedly prides it self on the dignity of work, it seems to be doing its best to put people on the dole or working as a public servant.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 11 July 2011 7:28:02 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
SM

Your seem unable top grasp it . Nope the CT raises 30 and they are giving 15 out of that back to the public.

The other 15 is paid by the bigPs.
Posted by Kerryanne, Saturday, 16 July 2011 9:04:36 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Kerryanne,

You are as bad with figures as your political masters. Just read what you posted, it makes no sense.

You forgot the $7- 10bn black hole that will be filled from taxpayers' pockets.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Saturday, 16 July 2011 12:05:21 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I see that farmers are now resorting to shooting their cattle as they cannot feed them.

Well done Animals Australia. Idiots
Posted by Shadow Minister, Saturday, 23 July 2011 10:47:52 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 13
  7. 14
  8. 15
  9. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy