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The Forum > General Discussion > Atheism: What does it mean for Social and Economic Development

Atheism: What does it mean for Social and Economic Development

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Philo and runner,
Atheism is not a religion...... see the full stops. so stop trying to make it one. The facets of human thought, philosophy and the ability to reason and apply that knowledge without defaulting to a completely unprovable faith when the answer is to hard or just not available are some of the things that make an atheist. I agree about Dawkins, i spent time with his site discussing the various issues but in the end it became clear they were not any different to the sannyasins i spent time with in India. They had become blinded by the concepts and were developing as a religion.
I will develop at my own pace and progress by what i learn and experience. This may not make me the sharpest tool in the shed but it makes me content in my life and hungry for knowledge.
runner your comment " More than ever we need the grace of God rather than the delusions of puffed up arrogant men who really are the blind leading the blind" i find to be your usual blindness as the interference of religion for thousands of years has always been the problem. I would say that you obviously have no interest in history and the lessons that are there for us all, but i am no expert and you are probably a history major that is blinded by his faith.
Ones atheism is a personal thing and will be different for everyone. But to address the subject of this thread, it will make no more or less difference as it has always been there as have most other concepts in one regard or another. The mix will continue to roll around but atheists are unlikely to be seen as a threat to the vice like grip that religion has over man kind because it is not an organisation, it is individual and personal.
Posted by nairbe, Monday, 20 September 2010 6:55:47 PM
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The topic was inspired by the following article:

Religion and Economic Development: by Rachel M. McCleary
http://www.hoover.org/publications/policy-review/article/5729#nogo

and related articles quoted in the bibliography. For those who do have the time and inclination i'm sure you'll find it stimulating and i'd be interested in your responses.

One aspect of the research, based on growth studies involving Robert Barro (short-listed for the Nobel prize for his work in the field of economic growth and development), involves the interaction between economics and religion.

The detail empirical work can be found here: http://eco.isu.ac.ir/EDU/dlc/2rd/08/instructor/Religion%20and%20Economic%20Growth.pdf

A summary follows (from http://www.nber.org/digest/nov03/w9682.html)
Posted by grateful, Monday, 20 September 2010 7:09:54 PM
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Religion and Economic Growth
"For given religious beliefs, increases in church attendance tend to reduce economic growth. In contrast, for given church attendance, increases in some religious beliefs -- notably heaven, hell, and an afterlife -- tend to increase economic growth."

Some researchers argue that explanations for economic growth should be broadened to include cultural determinants. Culture may influence economic outcomes by affecting such personal traits as honesty, thrift, willingness to work hard, and openness to strangers. Although religion is an important dimension of culture, economists to date have paid little attention to its role in economic growth.

But in Religion and Economic Growth (NBER Working Paper No. 9682), authors Robert Barro and Rachel McCleary analyze the influences of religious participation and beliefs on a country’s rate of economic progress. The authors use six international surveys conducted between 1981 and 1999 to measure religiosity -- church attendance and religious beliefs -- for 59 countries. There is more information available about rich countries than poor ones and about countries that are primarily Christian. Barro and McCleary consider first how religiosity responds to economic development, government influences on religion, and the composition of religious adherence. They find that their measures of religiosity are positively related to education, negatively related to urbanization, and positively related to the presence of children. Overall, religiosity tends to decline with economic development.

The presence of a state religion is positively related to religiosity, probably because of the subsidies that flow to established religions in those countries. However, religiosity declines with greater government regulation of religion and with the religious oppression associated with Communism. Greater diversity of religions -- that is, religious pluralism -- is associated with higher church attendance and stronger religious beliefs. Countries in the sample that had low levels of pluralism include some that are predominantly Catholic (Spain, Italy, Portugal, Belgium, Ireland, and much of Latin America), as well as Protestant Scandinavia, Orthodox Greece, and Muslim Pakistan and Turkey. Countries studied that exhibit high levels of pluralism include the United States, Germany, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Australia, Malaysia, Singapore, and South Africa.

cont...
Posted by grateful, Monday, 20 September 2010 7:11:09 PM
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cont..

The authors turn next to the assessment of how differences in religiosity affect economic growth. For given religious beliefs, increases in church attendance tend to reduce economic growth. In contrast, for given church attendance, increases in some religious beliefs -- notably heaven, hell, and an afterlife -- tend to increase economic growth. In other words, economic growth depends mainly on the extent of believing relative to belonging. The authors also find some indication that the fear of hell is more potent for economic growth than the prospect of heaven. Their statistical analysis allows them to argue that these estimates reflect causal influences from religion to economic growth and not the reverse.

Barro and McCleary suggest that higher rates of religious beliefs stimulate growth because they help to sustain aspects of individual behavior that enhance productivity. They believe that higher church attendance depresses growth because it signifies a greater use of resources by the religion sector. However, that suppression of growth is tempered by the extent to which church attendance leads to greater religious beliefs, which in turn encourages economic growth
Posted by grateful, Monday, 20 September 2010 7:11:37 PM
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Well atheism is definitely on a steep increase in the West, and quite frankly, that's good enough for me.

The future (or more specifically present) will be quite interesting; in the past (as far as general awareness goes), extreme religious groups had only defectors, heretics and other extreme religious groups to worry about;
Now they're looking at a considerable outright atheistic community, and everyone must re-evaluate their place in the world, and their stance towards everyone else;

It also puts a gigantic damper on everyone who would normally speak of 'we' towards a general society in terms of our place in our world, and really mean a religious subgroup only half, or even a quarter of the nation belongs to.
-This is especially true when talking about another non/religious community.

Personally, I predict a major movement of subdividing existing nations and communities as fundamentalist Christians, secularists, fundamentalist Muslims, and other religions- among each of different persuasions- start to become truly distinct.
It is becoming clear the disappearing common ground between the fundamentalist Baptists and the strongly liberal secularists in the United States, finding no agreement on policies and what values society should uphold. The rise of the Spaghetti Monster lobbyists opposing creationism in Schools shows this quite well.
Posted by King Hazza, Monday, 20 September 2010 7:26:19 PM
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Atheists are just as bad as theists.They think they all the answers.Just face it,we really don't know.If we knew for certain either way,life would lose it's edge.Time to move on.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 20 September 2010 8:05:23 PM
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