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The Forum > General Discussion > Australia and the Burqa.

Australia and the Burqa.

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Richie 10: <<Could anyone tell me if honor killings have any place in this debate. As they are part of sharia law.>>

Bernard Lewis in "Islam: the Religion and its People" writes

"At a time when European opinion and comment were predominantly hostile to Islam, the great Hungarian Jewish orientalist Ignaz Goldzilher devoted much time and effort to defendign Islamic practice and achievements against detractors. A particularly important point he made was that Islam as a religion and as a culture should not be blamed for the tribal customs of some of the peoples who adopt it. A good example is genital mutilation of young females, widely practiced in Africa and, to a lesser extent, in some other places, but without any foundation whatsoever in Islamic scripture, tradition, or law. Another example is the practice of honor killing.
Islamic legislation in the Koran and in the Sharia is designed to protect women from abuse of this kind, but in many parts of the Islamic world today, even the rules of law designed to protect women are used to abuse them..."

As i have said above Bernard Lewis is among the most eminent of Islamic historians, which you can confirm for yourself, and certainly not an apologist for Islam. Yet, you will not find a more unequivocal rebuttal of the assertion that honor killings are a part of the Shari'a.
Posted by grateful, Monday, 23 August 2010 11:09:06 PM
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The burqa predates Islam, also a tribal relic, and not a requirement of Islam. The most
populace Muslim countries do not impose it.

Overseas, the burqa has proven to be a disguise par excellence for criminals; obviously, in areas of security there should be some method of ascertaining the wearer.

Current wearers should have the choice of whether to wear it or not - and this is a bit rubbery as it also depends upon the decision of their menfolk.

The next generation of potential wearers should not be wearing burqa, nor any other type of shroud. This is the responsibility of Islamic leaders/teachers in this country. They need to teach a pure Islam, devoid of accressions of primitive practices and horrors, in fact, out-law these from their faithful.

Whether it is due to the media or not, we seem to have unfortunate PR from the Islamic community ... 'cat-meat'? ... outrage that Muslim rapists received appropriate sentences!Islamic teachers/leaders/media, instead of trying to soften/justify messages like this, need to come out loudly and condemn them.

Muslims want to be accepted within our community, and G-d knows, we want to accept them. But when Islamic spokespeople try "to run with the fox and hunt with the hounds" instead of coming out clearly with their beliefs about certain practices, the wider community become confused ... and unfortunately, suspicious.

Islam is not new in this country. Afghanis opened the inland, bringing Islam with them, and building mosques. These people were no less devout than the current wave of Muslim arrivals. These earlier Muslims are an important part of our history, to whom we owe a debt of gratitude; their Muslim descendents, an important part of our current landscape. No distinction is made between them and any other groups within Australia. Perhaps this is due to the fact that they practice their Islamc faith, as it was intended.
Posted by Danielle, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 1:02:56 AM
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Danielle, it is obvious that your heart is in the right place, but please don't contribute to the scaremongering.

>>Overseas, the burqa has proven to be a disguise par excellence for criminals<<

This is an utter and complete fabrication. The burqa is in fact a most inappropriate garment for the vast majority of criminal enterprises. I'd be amazed if you were to find that any form of Muslim female attire has become "proven" as a criminal disguise.

A ski mask is so much more practical.

One avenue that hasn't been explored is the fact that if we, a particularly non-Muslim country, advocate banning the burqa, we are effectively endorsing the notion that it is the role of government to mandate female attire.

Seen from the perspective of religious leaders overseas, this provides third-party reinforcement to their own position, and supports their stance that they are right to insist on a particular form of covering for their female population.

This would, I suspect, be something of setback for women in Muslim countries who believe they should have a choice.

And grateful, I think you are clutching at straws here:

>>Perhaps you missed my earlier suggestion: that they be required to show themselves to security (male or female) and provide an ID which they would collect on the way out. Shariah law would not require security to be of one particular gender.<<

Personally, I strongly doubt the last sentence. But anyway.

You, equally, must have missed mine.

"If the pressure and strain of exposure is too great, perhaps it would be wiser for the individual to compromise by finding alternatives to physically visiting a bank etc., rather than expect the rest of the world to fall into line."
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 9:23:59 AM
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Pericles,

I suggest you do some research on the web before making this statement.
Posted by Danielle, Wednesday, 25 August 2010 5:37:28 PM
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Pericles,

Just a few sites from online.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1273914/Robber-wearing-burka-leads-raiders-jewellery-shop-heist.html#ixzz0nMF3YHkB

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1209006/Jewellers-robbery-Oxfordshire

http://www.france24.com/en/20100210-burqa-robbers-post-office-paris-nicolas-sarkozy-ban-national-identity-france-muslim

Arab sympathy for burqa ban
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/egypt/100601/arab-burqa-ban-muslim-freedom

The primitive Burqa might have had some benefit in a desert environment and sand storms, but is quite inappropriate for Australia's modern envirnoment. I also suspect it is highly unhygenic. A western woman visiting family in the middle east described wearing her sister-in-law's Burqa. Apart from the fact that it was cumbersome and suffocating, it was noisome - the inside of the mask was encrusted with dried spital and mucous. Obviously, these garments are not cleaned very often.

Doctors are also concerned about the Burqa's more serious health risks
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/272307
Posted by Danielle, Wednesday, 25 August 2010 6:32:26 PM
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I stand corrected on the issue of criminal use, Danielle.

But I still believe that the security issue does not need to be addressed with a blanket ban. It is entirely appropriate that the security men at the door of the premises applies the same "house rules" for any form of face covering, be it burka, ski mask or balaclava.

But involving the government, and making it an issue of public policy, is to my mind giving our lawmakers far too much influence over our personal lives.
Posted by Pericles, Thursday, 26 August 2010 10:17:50 AM
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