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The Forum > General Discussion > Ahmadinejad - Geneva - Israel

Ahmadinejad - Geneva - Israel

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OUG, thanks for that link.

I have to say it seems that Israel doth protest too much. If Ahmadinejad is such a fruitloop, why do they not engage him and show him to be that way, instead of trying to shout him down and poison the well? That sort of thing doesn't work even in a forum such as this, let alone in the wider world. I'm quite disgusted at the way in which the West has allowed itself to be led by the nose by Israel on this issue.

From where I sit, Israel is very definitely a racist regime and was founded on explicitly racist principles. Zionism has no room for gentiles of any stripe.

Pro-Zionists have justified the at-times appalling behaviour of Israel on the grounds of the Holocaust, but the holocaust would never have happened if there had been influential people in Germany prepared to stand up and engage with the hateful words of the Nazis. Instead, those people either self-interestedly joined the Party, or turned their backs, ignoring the hate. the few who were left were easily shouted or beaten down.

It seems to me that there are lots of similarities in the way Israel and pro-Zionists behave today. Any attempt to offer a reasoned critique of their position is met with howls of indignation and cries of anti-Semitism, which drives the reasonable people from the floor. The Nazis used the same tactics, only their fevered vision was Greater Germany, not Greater Israel.

Israel is a State with its days numbered, sadly. Not because of world opinion, but because with the end of the petrochemical economy, it will no longer be able to defend itself. If it wishes to avoid carnage in the future, it must make accommodations with the people around it. There is no choice, or the would-be victim State will be one in reality.
Posted by Antiseptic, Wednesday, 22 April 2009 6:25:46 AM
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Lets put this in a little perspective.
Israel was formed as an act of racism, because no other country wanted the Jewish refugees from Europe. Jews have suffered persecution for millenia, since Roman Times, Pogroms were almost an international sport through the middle-ages. Many think, as I do, that the Jews bring it in themselves by their exclusivity and refusal to adapt, but the level and violence of the reaction to that behaviour is beyond acceptable.
Lets face the reality, there are many Arabs living within the state of Israel, and they are not legally discriminated against, even if there IS a social prejudice, so to compare that to Sth Africa is fallacious.
Who built Jerusalem? Certainly NOT the Palestinians, and they are in effect occupiers of the Jewish homeland who seized the land during the tribulations of the Jews, so they have no long-term claim to it.
Most of Israel is made up of people who, like the rest of humanity, just want to get on with their lives, but it's the Palestinians and other Arabs who keep the fight alive, and won't accept peace.
The Iraqi rant was just more Arab abuse, and had no merit at all, on any level, except that of the Arab view of the world, an extremely undesirable one to Western eyes. There's far more racism in Arab countries than just about anywhere, look at Saudi Arabia, The Emirates etc, and there it IS written into the Law!
Posted by Maximillion, Wednesday, 22 April 2009 8:35:52 AM
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UnderOneGod. Your comments are so long I don't read them. 1200 words for a comment is ridiculous. You could be giving me the truth about our existence but I'll never know. To me, it's spam. Just saying. I'd say it somewhere else if I could.

Anyway, Ahma-dinner-jacket goes into the conference being a whackjob, pure and simple. He's like Gibo, or BoazDavid here. I didn't read the speech so I don't know what he exactly said, but Foxy is spot on in regards to his track record.
Posted by StG, Wednesday, 22 April 2009 8:50:44 AM
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The full text of Ahmadinejad's speech: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8010747.stm
Posted by MX, Wednesday, 22 April 2009 8:57:18 AM
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Hi Stg,

In defence of OUG what he posted was Ahmadinejad's speech. Admittedly I initially made the same mistake. I do invite you to read it because it is instructive when held against what was reported. It would seem that quite a few of the media had not read it either.

Foxy I would support OUG's suggestion that you point our where he denied the Holocaust in the speech.

Maximillion,

I feel the perspective you have asked us to take is a western one. Polgroms were in the main a European 'sport'.

There is under Iranian law a requirement for representation of religious minorities in the parliament. From memory there is one Jewish MP and 2 Copic Christian MPs currently serving.

Under Israeli law there is no provision for interfaith nor civilian marriages. Possibly the problem we have are our attempts to tease out what is racial discrimination vs religious discrimination. I think the Israeli government is very proficient at muddying the waters and the cloak of one is used to hide the other.

I would have loved a reply to Ahmadinejad's speech highlighting the abuses in his own country because platitudes on a UN document have little clout if evident truths are not discussed.

I would like to know some specific examples of Ahmadinejad's speech that you felt had no merit because I saw kernels of truth in most of it. Naturally much of it was for public consumption at home but few politicians are blameless in that department.

I do find the man objectionable and it is not a pleasant position to be defending him but I do think some of the hyped criticism seems to reek of the same racism we should be at pains to counter.
Posted by csteele, Wednesday, 22 April 2009 9:34:03 AM
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Powerful stuff.

Whether we agree with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or not, his thought processes are clearly visible to everyone. Here we have a clear illustration of the truth that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, with reality always in third place.

I have looked through the speech a couple of times now. It is not necessary to agree with his more polemical phrasing to grasp the inherent logic in his perspective.

We are conditioned to trying address a problem by analysing its root cause, and this is a tactic that Ahmadinejad frequently employed in his speech.

If Boaz were still contributing to this forum, we would hear endlessly about the rights that he perceives were conferred on early Israelites. From Ahmadinejad we hear his perspective on the actions of the UN some sixty years ago.

Neither attitude is going to solve any of the region's problems.

Similar stances exist in Northern Ireland. Some folk still talk about the Battle of the Boyne for heaven's sake, which happened in 1690. Only when politicians (and ex-terrorists) were able to look past this, were the problems capable of some form of positive action.

Same goes for Israel and Palestine. Just staring at each other with hatred isn't going to solve anything. Talking about what hurts can be a start.
Posted by Pericles, Wednesday, 22 April 2009 10:01:14 AM
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