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The Forum > General Discussion > Can we have an economy not based on waste?

Can we have an economy not based on waste?

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If we don't make devices with built in obsolescence it will be impossible to provide employment for most people. This is true whether the economy is capitalist or socialist as we can produce more than we need. If most people are not employed what would be a fair way to allocate goods and services. It seems crucial that we must stop piling up waste.
Posted by david f, Monday, 2 February 2009 9:28:36 AM
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This is a good question davidf and not an easy one to grapple with. It would involve some thinking outside the square and some risk taking which is not always conducive to an electorate.

The way I figure it, is to look at the economy as the servant of the people not the other way around. That is not to think of it in terms of jobs because the economy is really about providing goods and services. Jobs are just one aspect to how these goods and services are delivered.

Some ideas might include:
- reduce overall working hours (more equal share of work/leisure hours)

- job sharing

- create employment and training in the sectors where there are 'real' shortages and other needs/services are not being met (eg. elderly care, health (particularly mental and disability health), renewable energy sector etc

- jobs that are now voluntary could be paid (where the work is considered essential or conducive to societal wellbeing)

- smaller local market gardens serving local and regional areas

- incentives for small business

- reduce or impose tariffs on imports that threaten local industry and manufacture where possible at home

- institute trade agreements with countries that may produce what we cannot in return for supplying widgets or whatever they cannot produce (due to climatic or other constraints)

- reduce the gap between the highest and lowest incomes while still providing for incentives and creativity and the idea of reward for effort

Not all of these may be workable in isolation but to reduce waste as much as possible through the current system of planned obscelence will more than likely mean thinking more locally than globally. Replacing some lost manufacturing jobs with other types of jobs based on technological advancement and community services and in conjunction with the ideas listed above.

I am sure there are many other ideas out there.
Posted by pelican, Monday, 2 February 2009 10:04:19 AM
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Yeh,

I like thinking about this kind of stuff, it's all about quality and priorities..

Just buying the one toaster that lasted a whole life, maybe got handed on etc...

There'd be room for other things...employment via.. art, music, even time off...

It's a pipe dream though... though they do say that cheap entertainment blooms in a depression as people can't afford fancy holidays etc..

But we just download an dvd these days anyway...
Posted by meredith, Monday, 2 February 2009 12:58:19 PM
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To have an economy not based on waste is to limit government spending and a treasurer that knows how to save money.The recent spending spree by the labor goverment has put the treasury into the red and bad economics on behalf of the labor party.The liberals always saved first and spent wisely not wasting money on grants that went nowhere .People who recieved money from the labor party either used it to buy smokes ,alcohol or pokies.The government should have not given any money out in the first place .House grants like the 21 thousand dollar bonus should have been capped at seven thousand dollars .The labor party is just wasting tax payers money and bankrupting the country.
Posted by mattermotor, Monday, 2 February 2009 1:27:50 PM
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Excellent topic Davidf.

Need something to balance out the pointless p!$$ing competition on the Windschuttle and SubPrime threads - neither of which appear to be concerned that:

1. We are running out of energy reserves.
2. Irrespective of where you stand on GW, we are polluting our streams, rivers, oceans, landfills, air etc.
3. Still have not done much more than implement token "carbon trading".
4. Have yet to invest in long term infrastructure that will supply renewable energy.

The above 'elephants' rarely get a mention and when they do the usual suspects complain that it is all too hard, that human nature can't be changed, or even that there is no need to change, that 'business as usual' will save the day.

Well maybe human nature hasn't changed all that much, but our knowledge and technology have.

We have gone from stone-age, bronze-age and raced straight past through the industrial age into - ? We are now at a point where we can do just about anything. Instead we squabble and squander.

Our economy is waste based. We can turn that around, still make money and be home in time for the Simpsons, but it'll take a collective will to achieve this.

Have we grown up yet, Kiddies?
Posted by Fractelle, Monday, 2 February 2009 4:36:57 PM
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Ah, So, so Funny.

We have already started with a solution to eliminate waste. A recession. It just needs to get worse to see the full effects.

Around my area we have council cleanup. People throw out their unwanted stuff, and the council picks it up. Now, being a Pikey, and just coming from Nepal and thinking of the excitement your average Nepali would show at this world of plenty where people throw out so much stuff, I have found all sorts of valuable items (especially free wood) that people normally pay for at the Church of Bunnings.

As more people lose their jobs, they will also find that they don't have the money to redecorate their house every 3 years, and others will become Pikeys like myself.

Who knows, if things get really bad, people might start learning to fix things again.

Ebay is another example. Although I'm sure the government will at some stage try to hinder this recycling of goods or at least try and tax it better.
Posted by Houellebecq, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 11:07:31 AM
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I love the council chuck out days, I furnished most of my place with that stuff.
Posted by meredith, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 11:14:24 AM
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Meredith wrote: I love the council chuck out days, I furnished most of my place with that stuff.

On the grounds around city hall where I lived in Connecticut one could gather edible mushrooms. In season we used to get two or three meals a week from that source. Unfortunately the mayor had a fungicide applied to preserve the green expanse of lawn. The mayor was a friend so I protested but too late.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 11:48:12 AM
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What a shame!

Yeh, I lived in the wilderness for a few years recently, ate lots of mushies... and when they are naturally grown they are incredible tasting...

Also I worked on a native food garden...amongst which there was a good native parsley and a fantastic mint...
Posted by meredith, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 11:53:28 AM
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Free Mushies seems like a great idea there are several edible fungi in Aus but be careful.
In Queensland (just out of Brisbane) a lady and hubby experienced in wild harvest mushrooms collected and ate “field mushrooms” from a nearby bush patch. Less than 4 hours later she died and her hubby was admitted to ICU he survived…just.
NB they were identified as an unknown species (resembling field mushrooms).
The experts then admitted that less than 20% of Australian Fungi has been described and therefore known to science.
One expert said "if you collect wild fungi to eat in Australia be sure to leave some on a separate plate....for the coroner" Bon Appetite hmmm
Posted by examinator, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 1:24:23 PM
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It seemed that Paul Keating hit on a good idea last night on the 7.30 Report re fixing up the imbalances in the global financial system. He said that the net debtor countries had to spend less and save more while the net surplus countries had to spend more and save less. This makes sense if you believe, like I do, that anything you do in the physical world has a finite limit.

The same applies for consumption (and hence waste). The high consuming countries need to consume and manufacture less, while the low-consumption (mainly developing) countries need to consume and manufacture more.

I reckon this is the big rebalancing act that needs to happen before we can even begin to solve our waste problem.
Posted by RobP, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 2:42:37 PM
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A correction:

My last comment should have read "on Lateline" not "on the 7.30 Report".
Posted by RobP, Wednesday, 4 February 2009 9:54:21 AM
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