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The Forum > General Discussion > Scrutiny & accountability

Scrutiny & accountability

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Well Judgement was handed down in a matter that my family put before the Administrative Decisions Tribunal with regard to obtaining documents from the Ombudsman in relation to his handling, and in our families case mishandling, of our families complaints against the Department of Education and Training. Sure enough the ADT didn't have the jurisdiction to do anything. It seems that nobody has the jursisdiction to ensure that complainants are afforded procedural fairness and are being treated fairly and that children are being protected.

I wasn't surprised with the outcome but it does concern me as if the Ombudsman can choose to use his discretion and not investigate matters, what is to stop him from assisting a Government Department to cover up allegations and complaints? Surely when it is a matter of child protection they should be obliged to properly investigate complaints so as to ensure that the children are protected. Otherwise what use are they?

http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/adtjudgments/2008nswadt.nsf/f1a6baff573a075dca256862002912ec/7a311fa0db43128bca2574ad001673d7?OpenDocument

Education - Keeping them Honest
http://jolandachallita.typepad.com/education/
Posted by Jolanda, Wednesday, 27 August 2008 6:29:09 PM
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Jolanda,
What did you honestly expect from another highly paid public servant pariscite in his own Tribunal ( pretend Court) protecting the other public servants and ignoring the rule of law, he can do this quite legaly and you gave him the authority to exercise his discression to make a decision along Govt Policy guidelines.

Did you provide him with any EVIDENCE or did you provide copies of documents that were not certified as true and correct ?

If he has no evidence how can he have jurisdiction ?

What form of EVIDENCE did you provide on oath or other-wise ?

Did you fill out any of their FORMS provided ?
Posted by Young Dan, Thursday, 28 August 2008 1:22:39 AM
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I'm not surprised you've got nowhere, Jolanda. Having been forced to deal with the incompetence and corruption that is part and parcel of the Child Support Agency and having had complaints upheld with no action taken to rectify the problem, I know how frustrating it can be to try to extract some accountability from the "faceless (wo)men" that preside over our lives. As long as the same people that create the problem are charged with fixing it, no reasonable outcome is possible and yet that is the standard way in which our modern bureaucracies operate.

Once, a Government bureaucrat took pride in acting "without fear or favour", now they can operate without fear of consequence, almost regardless of their culpability.
Posted by Antiseptic, Thursday, 28 August 2008 7:22:08 AM
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Of course I filled out the form. What evidence can you provide when you are seeking documents to shed light on their inaction? Since the DET are covering up my families complaints they just fed the Ombudsman lies and he took their side. Nobody will actually investigate or look at the evidence. Here are some of the issues/excuses that the DET have used....

It was agreed at a planning meeting that the matter would be settled by way of Submissions and I filed a Submission. I was told prior to that and at the Planning meeting that the ADT problably wouldn't have Jurisdiction but I still tried because I believed that when the Law was made for the Ombudsman to be exempt from the FOI Act it was on the condition that he would exercise his duties with integrity and with the best interest of the children of paromount concern. I didn't succeed, I am not surprised but hey at least I am trying to hold this corrupt Government to acccount. At least it shows that our Investigatory bodies are a farce and they can cover up with full protection. Scary when they are in charge of Child protection especially given how many children are abused and how many years it takes for the abuse to come to the surface - if ever .. Cover ups are all that our Government knows.
Posted by Jolanda, Thursday, 28 August 2008 7:32:41 AM
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Woops Young Dan sent the post before I finised....Sorry.

Here are some issues/excuses that were just ignored by the Ombudsman:

1. The DET gave the order to destroy original test papers despite the original documents being specifically requested to be put aside and produced under FOI so as to verify marks.
2. They accidentally sent me a copy of a result document, stuck by a paper clip to a letter, which showed the changing of test scores to a lower score. This lower score was used as the correct score to determine school placement. However the same document produced under FOI at a later date showed a higher score. They used the excuse that there was no room on the data file to keep all the information/scores and that information had to deleted to make room for more information. So they are essentially saying that there was no room for what they used as the lower right score but there was room for what they say is the wrong higher score?. No it doesn’t make sense!
3. We asked for certified true and accurate copies of our children’s test results. They sent an uncertified document of our children’s test results that showed inconstancies and errors.
4. They presented the matter in internal submissions as having been investigated and those about whom allegations had been made against had been cleared of any misconduct. This is despite the fact that no investigation has ever taken place as confirmed in internal documents wherein it states that we were promised an investigation and that the investigation has never happened.
5. They described me as having been deemed vexatious by the Minister, as being an angry aggressive mother who was a risk of harm to her children and whose complaints constituted a form of bullying. This is despite the fact that I have never formally been deemed vexatious and I followed Policy and Procedure in the lodgment of our complaints and they were all in writing and we were trying to protect our children from neglect, bullying, victimization, vilification and harm.
Posted by Jolanda, Thursday, 28 August 2008 7:42:04 AM
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Yes Antiseptic I think you sum it all up when you say that they operate without fear of consequence. This is a situation that has to be changed - for our children's sake.

Public servants are supposed to exercise their duties with impartiality, integrity and without bias and discrimination....and definately without malice......however our experience is that they are generally either workplace bullies or by their indifference or inaction they support the bullies. Nobody seems to have to care about their victims. It just seems that victims/targets have no rights and no avenue for protection. Well I will continue to fight because our children deserve a better future than that of a corrupt Government as that usually grooms a corrupt society.
Posted by Jolanda, Thursday, 28 August 2008 7:50:45 AM
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jolanda, you are getting a practical education on the value of democracy: when you don't have it, officers of government can do as they please.

but no sympathy, because you have only yourself to blame. you, and most ozzies are perfectly willing to tolerate oligarchy as long as it's not your toes caught in the government rollers.

you can't help it, you're rsised to submit, and submit you do
Posted by DEMOS, Thursday, 28 August 2008 8:14:53 AM
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"Public servants are supposed to exercise their duties with impartiality, integrity and without bias and discrimination....and definately without malice......however our experience is that they are generally either workplace bullies or by their indifference or inaction they support the bullies."

Public servants are supposed to be a lot of things and adhere to the APS Codes of Conduct but in my experience if there is any butt covering to be done these principles fly out of the window.

During a whistle blowing experience in one department, myself and others were told that by raising certain issues we were at risk of ruining our otherwise good reputations and when I later left this department to work for another agency, I was asked by the boss "if he could count on my support when I go to work for blah blah". My only regret is that I did not have the courage to take some other issues further but it was a high security area and frankly staff were too scared to speak out - it was that sort of culture.

Jolanda the only other path you might be able to take is to make a complaint about a breach of the Public Service Codes of Conduct by those officers who lied or changed data to suit their own case. I am not sure what the State body is that might have jurisdiction but in the Commonwealth it is the Australian Public Service Commission as per the link below:

http://www.apsc.gov.au/conduct/index.html

The APSC could point you in the right direction.

Sometimes for peace of mind you just have to move on. There is always the media if you really feel strongly - ACA and TT I am sure need no prodding to take on a case of injustice.
Posted by pelican, Thursday, 28 August 2008 9:06:52 AM
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Jolanda,
if it's any consolation at all, at least you didn't have to deal with Queensland authorities.
It does however appear that the NSW & the Qld Ombudsman could be related.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 28 August 2008 6:47:54 PM
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Hi Pelican. Thanks for the leads.

Thing is that letting it go would never give me peace of mind. I would actually struggle to live with myself if I didn't continue to persue this matter because my children would be disapointed in me and I would feel like I had failed in my duty of care. My children want me to fight this, they are very hurt by what is being done to them and me and they are more than aware about what is and isn't right. The fact that our plight is ignored by the authorities makes them feel angry and they want to push for things to change and they hope it will help make things better for everybody.

I am their mother and they targeted my children and they are bullying and neglecting children and if I do nothing then by my inaction I am turning my back on my children and other children and I am supporting or facilitating the bullies.....I can't help but feel very strongly about this.

If they were targeting me it would be different. But to target the children is really mean and cruel. They were innocent. That is such a low form of bullying that it should be against the law.

Imagine if in the past people hadn't of fought for what was fair and right. Where would we be now? That is where I fear we are headed. So I will spend as long as I can, probably the rest of my life, fighting for what should be our right!

Sorry to hear that you have also experienced 'the system'. Here's hoping for change!
Posted by Jolanda, Friday, 29 August 2008 8:46:07 PM
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Pleasure Jolanda. I do understand your resolve and admire your strength to keep pursuing your goal. I would probably feel the same as you if it were my children and they wanted me to continue.

I just know in my case the emotional weight of it was heavy but looking back I wish I had done more especially now that I know more about the sources available. We had one small win with the Ombudsman but needless to say those responsible have now been promoted out of the department.

Good luck.
Posted by pelican, Saturday, 30 August 2008 12:02:15 PM
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Your complaint reeks of rotten fish. Take the decision and forget about it. You are chasing a gazel wearing gumboots. You have no way of changing a decision because you don't like it.
Posted by jason60, Sunday, 31 August 2008 8:37:17 PM
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