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The Forum > General Discussion > Are there guns in the Defence gun cupboard for the citizens?

Are there guns in the Defence gun cupboard for the citizens?

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I frequently bring this subject up all over the country.
Some years ago I wrote to the Howard government and asked if there were sufficient military handweapons in the Defence arsenals for a citizens home guard defence force if one was needed.
Back then, in John Howards early years as PM, the answer I received was too vague to really understand.
It wasnt a No but it certainly wasnt a Yes and in the end I think I just got another government runaround response.
Not long afterwards, Port Arthur Tasmania happened and then the semi-automatic rifles got taken away from all of the gun owners...the farmers and the gun clubbers. I dont complain about that though.
I wrote again on the need for a citizens home guard defence force in the light of Chinas military build up and once again, this time from Brendan Nelson: the Minister of Defence, I got the reponse that there were no plans, at all, for a citizens home guard army anywhere in the future.
And Im still wondering about what lies in quiet Defence arsenals?

80,000 Austeyrs for existing military personnel are simply not enough for a now, mostly gunless country to defend that country with if a major conflict breaks out in the region.
I therefore ask the question again in hope of an answer...from anyone... "are there enough military hand weapons and ammunition in Defence arsenals for a home guard army?
Are there plans for a home guard defence force using the gun clubbers?
Has anything been printed for home guard by Defence ...e.g. a handbook to help form a home guard army?
If we look carefully... the whole world is destablising.
China never stops building for war.
And here we sit in a hillbilly state of preparedness.
Oh woe to Australia if disaster happens in the South Pacific!
Posted by Gibo, Saturday, 12 July 2008 7:56:11 AM
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Gibo,

Just handing a civilian a gun is pointless. If you want to, you can join the reserves, which will teach you how to use the weapon, how to fight as part of a unit and teach you survival skills. But an armed civilian is more dangerous to himself and his family than anything else.

Your Chinese and Indonesian army nightmares are just that. Fantasies. Besides, there are a number of countries that China and Indonesia have interest in, before us. Any belligerence on the part of these two countries will change the defence structure in this country.

We need to focus on deterence, and frankly home guards are not a real deterrent to a modern army. If either country gained a foothold on the Australian mainland that was not immediately repulsed, it would be game over for us anyway.

Even a citizens guard armed with Javelin ATGM's would be little more than a speed bump for a modern armoured force. And the Chinese and Indonesians would be a lot less careful about the "rules of war" than the coalition forces in Afghanistan or Iraq.

So you're better off supporting the acquisition of extra f35's, f22's increasing the size of the regular army's armoured forces, and increasing the submarine forces. That would provide real deterrence and a capable fighting force.
Posted by Paul.L, Saturday, 12 July 2008 11:48:16 AM
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Well we all have a view Paul.L.

Mine is that an enemy got here.

My view is that now is the time to plan and to train...I did mention the printing of a book for home guard participants.
It would be good to see one issued to the gun clubbers so they can gear up in their hearts.
Unless we know the Bible we're not going to be ready for whats coming.
I dont think our defence strategists know their Bibles.
They seem to buy and equip according to man-made projections of the future... which cuts Gods plan out.
Im for home guard using the citizens.
Im for the gunclubbers as a very important part of that homeguard.
Im for decentralisation for home guard.
Im for doing it now before The Book of Revelation clicks into play. China and Russia have plans for the USA.
That also has to be taken into consideration when planning for our safety.
The mighty USA may not be able to help Australia.
Posted by Gibo, Saturday, 12 July 2008 12:27:34 PM
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I think Australians deserve better gun rights. I think Gibo raises a excellent point and I would like to see much more access to guns for the citizenry (but only those who deserve and have the maturity and discretion to handle them...)
Posted by Steel, Saturday, 12 July 2008 3:59:01 PM
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"but only those who deserve and have the maturity and discretion to handle them"

That's a joke, right? Because you can always tell mature and discrete citizens from immature and indiscrete ones from the tattoos on their foreheads describing them as such.
Posted by chainsmoker, Saturday, 12 July 2008 4:11:50 PM
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I dont mind the gun clubbers Steel.
I think theyre considerably responsible and would form a really good home guard if Defence was bright enough to see their potential. Defence is a bit proud though and thinks it can do the job without the people.
Being so proud and aloof I believe has given rise to much of the underground trafficking in weapons that we see today because truly, the people, or a relatively large proportion of them, simply dont trust Australias defence to governments and Defence departments.
Theyve seen such a vast amount of bungling in purchasings in the last few decades.
Defence needs to be purged. The old boys in the services cant even deal with the problem of the bastardisation in the forces.
Defence should in part be given to the corp world.
At least the financial incentives would bring in new thought.
Defence wants big, bright, shiny toys and leaves this huge hole in the area of the loss of the private guns and an unfilled Defence gun cupboard.
Chainsmoker also has a point about not all being trusted with greater gun access...but doing nothing about home guard isnt going to help either.
Its worth noting that if we get a very sudden change in the worlds military climate...one that has been in the planning for yonks...we can see Chinese paratroopers here within a number of days in such vast numbers the whole of the north can be over-run.
What then sweet old OZ?
Posted by Gibo, Saturday, 12 July 2008 5:58:00 PM
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"Are there guns in the Defence gun cupboard for the citizens?"

Yeah, you have to beat someone to death to get theirs.

The only way you'll get a gun as a citizen off a government is if you start a revolution and an agenda driven third party takes an interest.

...or you join the army when the SHTF.

Why do you want a gun anyway Gibo?. You keep telling us your bible is the answer to it all.
Posted by StG, Saturday, 12 July 2008 7:50:39 PM
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If you read what I wrote StG you would see I dont want a gun.
Im just pointing to a hole in national defence that has been there for many years.

If we want either Indonesia down here looking to incorporate us into their dream of "South Irian" or China down here looking for their dream of "New South China", we do nothing to fill that hole.
Posted by Gibo, Saturday, 12 July 2008 8:41:12 PM
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Oh that's right. China's your new 'Muslim hordes'. No need to worry old man, you'll be dust by the time they run out of land and come looking for yours.

The military actually DO have a strategy Gibo. The 'Home Guard' died with Dubya Dubya 2. It's called the reserves now.....actually, the SES was created for that purpose but took on the role of disaster relief and search and rescue and such.

Your role in some sorta invasion will be 'collateral damage' or a 'refugee'. The other option is to purchase weapons under the guise of 'sport', or 'hobby' in an survivalist type setup. The government don't want the masses to even own pump action shotties, the chances of us getting our hands on assault rifles and grenades is kinda....zero. Although, the strategy of the insurgents in Iraq was rather effective. With our backs against the wall of parliament house in Canberra they just start handing out Semtex and ball bearings.

Good luck.

As a tip, shove your bible down the front of your duds. That may be the way it'll save you.

Long one short, Gibo. The government don't have stockpiles of guns. They can't even give our soldiers a decent gun.
Posted by StG, Saturday, 12 July 2008 10:11:01 PM
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An army friend said the Austyrs were inferior. They are far too short for his powerful arms and he cant fire it properly. What shocking state the nations defences are in.
Its almost as if someone was working to get that Defence down to a defunct level.
Sedition has been happening somewhere. Either that or idiocy.
Im for allowing the yanks to take over.
Australia simply cant defend herself against whats coming out of asia in a few years.
Posted by Gibo, Sunday, 13 July 2008 6:31:11 PM
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With regards to the Styer it is a good weapon.
whether you have short or long arms.

The army was downsized during the last labor government and has been going through rebuilding whilst libs were in.

You would also find that conditions had been taken away due to labor policy.

Putting guns or weapons into the hands of the people ,yeah right.

Remember they go bang and do kill people if handled the wrong way.

You would also find that since the buy back many who were shooters were ex defence.

So with defending this country what a joke, maybe we can yell at them about OH&S and rights.

We know who the enemy is but hey thats life.
Posted by tapp, Sunday, 13 July 2008 7:04:08 PM
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I never said put guns in the hands of the people.
Train up the gun clubbers etc and when its time for China/Indonesia to come marching over the hill... then issue the guns.
But we have to have them first.
Posted by Gibo, Sunday, 13 July 2008 7:16:01 PM
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tapp>"Putting guns or weapons into the hands of the people ,yeah right."

Since when was "yeah right" an argument? No, really.

tapp>"Remember they go bang and do kill people if handled the wrong way."

Remember cars go bang and kill people if handled the wrong way.. Hang on a second, cars kill thousands of people and they are ubiquitous.

Honestly if you have objections to guns for such reasons then you are not helping Australia to become properly administrated. Chainsmoker had a point and it's a difficult question, but I believe that there is a reasonable solution.
Posted by Steel, Sunday, 13 July 2008 7:30:17 PM
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You may not know but i am a registered gun owner, and smallbore target shooter.

So guns dont bother me.

I have people in my area that are scared of a rifle case but dont have a problem with someone carrying around a speargun.

Then we have the idiots on the road.

It is the perception.

So what does defence have in the cupboard.

Lets see i started of with the 7.62SLR and then went to the 5.56 steyer.

With the yeah right comment could you see the people out their even letting something like this happen, yeah right.

People much prefer to roll over and take it up the rear end than stand up forthemselves.

Sounds just like voting time.
Posted by tapp, Sunday, 13 July 2008 9:14:37 PM
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YeahRight Boys.

Gibbo, you maniac.

Tapp,

Ever since you emailed me with your paranoid delusions that I was a spy, I had your number.

As a former soldier with plenty of experience as a section commander in peace and war operations in recent theaters, "in country".

I feel categorically and informationally aware to beable to comment on Gibbos irrational blast on home defence.

For starters matey, if you and the wombat patrol ie "gun nutters" are the last line of defence then we are truly #^%&*(.

The last thing a co ordinated fighting force needs is a rabble of undisciplined patriots stuffing up the game plan. It is couterproductive to what is a complex battle plan where sacrifices should and must happen to save the majority.

High tech weaponary in this day and age makes the infantryman only good for holding ground once the serious business of tactical abilities has been dealt with.

Once infantry has been spotted by a modern day main battle tank his battle field survivability is around eight seconds.

Be better for everyone if people helped the young and old to safety before the battle begins.

And OH the steyer is a good weapon when kept clean. Your mate with fat arms is probably a Q'ey. with bugger all experience as most who put crap on the kit they have know idea `aout.

SCOTTY is back
Posted by SCOTTY, Monday, 14 July 2008 1:12:30 AM
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The reason for the thread chappies was to draw attention to the hole in Defence...i.e. no guns in the cupboard to hand out to the citizens if China breaks out.
(I dont think Defence has published any booklets yet either for the citizens on how to train a home guard army)
I want that hole filled for a fair and reasonable opportunity to defend Australia under the circumstances of those days.
You also have to remember where Im coming from...and thats 16 years or so of collecting revelations from the Christian churches of an enemy down in this part of the Pacific.
Heaps of us christians believe those visions and prophecies.
The enemy gets here...we dont stop that...but we can lift the load off those days with better defence prep now.
Posted by Gibo, Monday, 14 July 2008 7:59:48 AM
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Gibo said: "Australia simply cant defend herself against whats coming out of asia in a few years."

Can't agree with that....militarily speaking. Don't wanna turn this thread into a military debate, but whether they get them on the southern coast of Indonesia or give up the top end first then cut their supply lines, they can defend...
Posted by StG, Monday, 14 July 2008 8:58:07 AM
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Paul L, your statement 'an armed civilian is more dangerous to himself and his family than anything else' is absolute rubbish.

I am a member of a shooting club and have kept pistols and rifles at home for years. Never has anyone been in any danger. A woman driving a 4WD just missed running into me a couple of hours ago so would you say that 'a female 4WD driver is more dangerous to herself and her family (and the public) than anything else'?

Swiss civilians are issued with a semi-auto rifle after training and keep it at home. Ever wonder why Germany never invaded there?

As for Steyr vs SLR, I was trained in the use of the SLR and most others who did the same say it is superior to the Steyr.

But the general basis of the thread is correct, there is no special cache of weapons to issue if we are invaded. Look at all the rifles, pistols and shotguns that were destroyed in thye confiscations (some people call them buy-backs). Ridiculous.
Posted by Austin Powerless, Monday, 14 July 2008 2:05:54 PM
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Scotty and his delusions

You may be a seco but that doesnt mean you have respect, the rank is saluted not you.

Also being a locator you should know what that means with Int.

Also if you know there are tanks call in a fire mission.

Back to the subject.

Defence has stores, even scotty knows that so whether or not they get used as ex defence get called up is another story.

we still have 25 pounders
slrs, and 303's.

but really the best bet is move to tassie as we always said when defence was downsized by labor.
Posted by tapp, Monday, 14 July 2008 4:04:44 PM
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Thanks for coming here guys.
Even if you dont agree with me, or even each other, your hearts are for Australia because you have an interest in the subject.
I dont really know where any blame for the hole in Defence lies...I just see that it exists.
I wonder if the CIA or US Defense knows about the hole?
Its their secret bases that will take a hit if China gets loose and no one is able to stop her.

I sure hope the gun clubbers are alert to the hole...Im sure theyre not so dumb as not to be.
If OZ Defence doesnt fix the hole then Australias last chance is the gun clubbers.
Maybe they will take their own steps to secure a future?
Posted by Gibo, Monday, 14 July 2008 5:17:30 PM
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I'm not allowed to carry a pistol to defend myself against a wild pig in the bush. Not a valid reason I was told.
Now if I were one of those morons who gets a kick out of firing a 38 at a piece of paper then yes, that is a valid reason.
who is the more dangerous mutt, me or the moron bureaucrats who dreamed up that ruling.
Defence ? well, if it ever came to that point then we might as well point the guns at ourselves because we'd be in a 1000 against 20 situation.
Posted by individual, Monday, 14 July 2008 7:38:23 PM
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Well... overall the best I can hope from this thread is that some of you will tell others people about the hole.
Its through the spreading of news that things get done.
We all know about Chinas build-up.
We all see Islamic extremism in Indonesia.
We know what their military did to the Balibo five and it would be the same here if they ever got their chance.

We can all see the way things are going with the increase of unrest thats going on around the world.
We all know that Defence likes big toys and has allowed the hole.
You might also tell folks that there are many, many christians around the country who believe in the visions and the prophecies of enemy soldiers down here at a later date.
I cant keep going on about this so do your best.
Pester the PM and Defence.
On the issue of the hole...theres not a brain in the camp it seems.
Maybe One World Government wants us defenceless for some future reason.
Posted by Gibo, Monday, 14 July 2008 8:44:20 PM
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You just hit the point Gibo. World order!
I agree with the Swiss idea, besides we do have the right to bear arms to defend our home? The "buy back" should have caused an uprising in itself.As far as China is concerned, Chinese soldiers were training here near Laverton in the early seventies.Before the Maribyrnong Munitions factory closed a whole army weapons cache was stolen and most likely being used here for training near MtBuffalo and probably finished up in Yugoslavia. (I was involved with the investigation)
So the moral of the story is that if they are cached in various spots under army control, that leaves it open for cleaning of the caches by various groups again. So I would have to agree with having a weapon in each CAPABLE household. For enemies to know that the weapons are far spread amongst the public is a deterrence in itself, unless they have enough bombs to bomb every house in this country.Choice of weapon would be a FAL.
Posted by eftfnc, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 1:59:30 AM
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Eftfnc. Its a real worry to me. I know of so many revelations to the christians about an invader (have done a short story already on how I came to gather them in) and to see so little done in the area of citizens army.
"World government" has its nose is so many aspects of OZ life it wouldnt surprise me if they had some "control" of Defence... or someone outside did.
But that wont help us against China because they will always stand apart from the One World Government order of things.
Chinas going to do what its going to do (the kings of the east).

I wish the gun clubbers could get organised on this issue.
They may not realise in full what power they have to change the course of future history?
The FAL looks like a suitable choice...much better than the bolt action/lever action rifles and bows and arrows the citzs have.
Posted by Gibo, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 6:06:25 AM
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What I meant, Austin Powerless, is that arming civilians to take care of defence needs is pointless and quite likely dangerous.

I was not suggesting that the guns clubbers who actually know how to use the weapon are dangerous in the sense that they might accidentally shoot someone etc.

What I was suggesting is that without military training, a bunch of civilians with rifles has virtually NO military benefit. Those who have military training will fit straight into the military system in the event of an attack on Australia. The rest are more likely to get themselves into trouble than they are to get anyone out of it

In any case, against any modern invasion force (and no other kind is ever going to make it to the Australian Mainland) what good would SLR’s or Steyrs do? What a militia type force would really need is mines, laser or other target indicators and ATGM’s like the javelin, which would require real training so as not to be a complete liability in the field.

None of our likely opponents would suffer a insurgent style uprising and they would not abide by the Geneva convention. Group punishment would be the rule and suspects would be shot, not tried in court. There would be no room for guerillas to operate.

TBC
Posted by Paul.L, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 11:39:47 AM
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Cont

The Swiss are compulsorily trained in the military for a year. I have no problem giving guns to people who’ve done a year’s military training. But the reason the Germans didn’t invade Switzerland had nothing to do with the fact that the Swiss kept a fairly strong home guard. The Swiss did the banking, if you’ll recall. They also played up their “Neutrality” which is Swiss for “war profiteer”.

Let me get this straight, you were trained by the army on both the SLR and the Steyr and you say most people who were, agree that the SLR is the better weapon to deploy to a warzone with, is that right?

Funny that the Army doesn’t think so. Certainly the US and Australian armies have seen the need for larger caliber rifles than the 5.56 Steyr and M4/M16, particularly in Afghanistan. The Aussie have issued the sr25’s to some of our special forces and the Americans are working on the M468. However, no one's thinking about bringing back the 50 year old SLR semi automatic rifle that I know of.
Posted by Paul.L, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 11:41:12 AM
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I'm a veteran and a retired copper. In my opinion this country is TOTALLY unprepared to engage ANY enemy of even moderate proportion.

True, our military assets are quite well trained and disciplined. However, we are unfortunately so very meagre on the ground.

The only realistic chance (at the risk of sounding pragmatic), that we may have in mounting an attainable defence is, the size, logestical dynamics, and climatic conditions that prevail in this vast continent. Perhaps our peculiar geographic characteristic/s, could materially inhibit a potentially advancing invader ?

Regrettably, through various Governments' inaction, we are really quite vulnerable. In fact, we're manifestly unprotected and assailable, should a foe of even moderate size wish to invade.
Posted by o sung wu, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 5:25:27 PM
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I agree about arming civilians. Our defence force is the way to go. If that is breached then an armed population won't do squat.

I don't think an armed resistance is completely useless, however it will inevitably be lead by members of the armed forces once it disintegrates. I don't think lack of guns would be a problem. You can always get them from somewhere. Even in a war, money talks. Most countries have a problem of too many guns. Australia is partly immune from that because we share no land borders with dirt poor countries.

Anyway, if it does come down to an armed civilian resistance, it will be training, not guns that is the problem. We could easily arm the population in the dying stages of a losing battle. Training them is a completely different matter.
Posted by freediver, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 5:56:10 PM
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I was hoping Freediver that the ADD might produce a booklet to hand out to the gun clubbers for the "climate time" of a possible invasion.
Not fifty million pages of dribble but something simple....a do you own homguard if government appears to be collapsing.
The big problem over the years is that the Australian Defence Department has never been really, genuinely, strong or determined about defence.
No guns in the Defence cupboards shows this to be true.
An army sergeant friend once told me that if China ever got down here... there wouldnt be enough ammunition anyway.
The old Brisbane line of last defence, up around Tenterfield NSW I think it has been, has been reportedly moved south to around Newcastle NSW... showing just how serious they are about fighting for their beloved country.
I think that Defence has already conceded to nation, in their hearts, to an asian invader.
Thats why the people must stand up.
Posted by Gibo, Wednesday, 16 July 2008 8:49:37 AM
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The Defence of Australia has always been a job in which the Navy and AirForce have had a leading role.

Since any invasion of Australia requires an amphibious task force, our submarines are our most important, and effective, line of defence. No country in our region has the capability, the aircraft carriers in particular, to project an amphibious task force that could withstand the attentions of our Navy and our AirForce. Only the Americans have that capability, and our subs have, during exercises, been able to take out their aircraft carriers.

Our f-111's have no equal in the region, and our fA-18's have only barely been matched by regional Airforces. But in any case, the new Air Warfare Destroyers and amphibious helicopter assault ships, combined with new AWACS, new P8 Poseidon maritime interdiction, new Tanker refuellers and at least 100 Stealth Fighters, and assisted by our new Abrams heavy tanks, tracked and amoured artillery and rapid cavalry; means will we be a significant foe to ANY armed forces in our region.

When the defence agreements with our allies, the British and Americans and even the New Zealanders are taken into account, no one in their right mind would see Australia as undefended.

Men with rifles are, by far, the least important unit when it comes to the defence of Australia. Anyone who thinks they are going to stop an Chinese type 99 with a rifle should just shoot themselves now and save the Chinese tracks the trouble.
Posted by Paul.L, Wednesday, 16 July 2008 10:27:01 AM
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"Any invasion of Australia requires an anphibious task force?"...

Any invasion of Australia really... intially... needs just a number of jumbo jets coverted to carry paratroopers.
Within in hours paratroopers are dropping all over the north and no one can do anything about it.

Every vision or prophecy from The Lord that Ive seen says that the invader got here.
Many years ago I knew this lovely christian lady pentecostal pastor who had a vision of paratroopers coming down just north of Mt. Isa and the roads clogged with people trying to escape.
When she awoke at the end of the vision she said The Lord spoke to her and simply said "TWO BABY GIRLS".
That very day two baby girls were born into her family, one two weeks late and the other the day she was due.
This was the confirmation that one day paras would come to that part of northern Australia.
This wonderful revelation I sent to the Australian Defence Department and they sent it on to their intelligence section for analysis.
Every revelation Ive come across spoke in someway or other about the sins of the people as to why God might Allow an invasion.
I think theres a few years yet though...though not too many.
A nation turning back to Jesus Christ will remove much of the weight of such an event.
Posted by Gibo, Wednesday, 16 July 2008 10:58:49 AM
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Gibo,

Thats absolute bollocks. There is just no way that Jumbo jets full of paratroopers is a realistic method of invasion of this country.

I don't care what your prophecies say, its just totally infeasible. Once the first one or two landed, all other planes would be ordered out of the sky and any from overseas would be sent home. With the airforce, navy and army all possessing anti aircraft missiles, the Jumbos wouldn't stand a chance.

So once these paratroopers had taken a couple of airports what would they do then? No reinforcements could arrive whilst there was still an RAAF in existence. They would be surrounded and forced to surrender or would be wiped out piecmeal. There is no way you could sustain an air bridge without first defeating the RAAF. And that would take some considerable effort because Australia is a big country and there are a lot of places to park your jet which are out of reach. Once hostilities had started there is NO WAY a jet load of paratroopers gets in. NONE.

This is a preposterous idea that you clearly haven't thought through. I think you've seen "a bridge too far" too many times, or perhaps not enough, I'm not sure. Our circumstances today bear absolutely no resemblance to the situation in Crete in 1942.

I suggest you seek the help of a medical practitioner if you are actually seeing things which aren't there.
Posted by Paul.L, Wednesday, 16 July 2008 11:23:52 AM
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Yeh...its easy done.
Russia and China "touch" the mighty USA and in the same week Chinas paras come.
No one knows at this very moment, I reckon, where all of Chinas commercial jets are parked... what maintenance or conversion they are undergoing.
Im staying with those prophecies which say the enemy gets here and there is no other nation to stop them.
Ever seen A.C.Valdez's 1929 vision. Theres plenty similar.
Posted by Gibo, Wednesday, 16 July 2008 11:46:22 AM
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individual, if by 'those morons who gets a kick out of firing a 38 at a piece of paper ' you mean target shooters, that's quite a moronic statement. While I've never shot an animal (and you appear to want to shoot wild pigs), I enjoy target shooting. Does that make me a moron?

Paul L, I am for arming civilians, but only after proper training - Swiss style. As for Steyr vs SLR, I can only comment on what some RAAF and army friends have told me. I left the forces around the time the Steyr was replacing the SLR so I don't have personal experience. Maybe if I had, I would change my view - maybe not.

While the Swiss banks may have saved them, neutrality didn't come into the equation. Think Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg.
Posted by Austin Powerless, Wednesday, 16 July 2008 6:40:55 PM
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Good evening to all you good folk...

I thought I'd offer a comment or two, at the proposition - in the event of an invasion of this great country, civil shooters (particularly members of gun clubs) could/should be marshalled into a VDC (Volunteer Defence Corps) type of a 'First Response Force'.

In the days of 'big bore' military rifle clubs, I myself, was a member of Hurstville VDC (1956 -'63) Rifle Club. We used (exclusively) SMLE's (in .303 calibre) either, No. 1 Mk.3's or No.4's. Then, bona fide members were permitted to purchase from the Govt. a brand new SMLE at, 3 or 4 pounds, total !

An appropriate aperture sight needed to be fitted (Central, Rawson or Parker Hale et al) generally costing 25 to 45 Pounds, including,some initial bedding and fitting.
There were quite a number of other minor modifications needed, in order to shoot competitively. Apart from this, you were on you way, so to speak.

Munitions were quite cheap too (can't remember, I'm sorry), and were heavily subsidised by the Govt.

I belonged to the club for a fairly short period, resigning when I joined the regular Army. Later, I joined the Army Rifle Team, using the L1A1's in 7.62mm calibre. When sent to South Vietnam, we were initially issued with L1A1's also. In country, they took our SLR's and gave us the Colt Mfg. M16 in 5.56mm calibre, a much lighter with less felt recoil, assault rifle.

I know you folk don't want to hear my dreary, boring tale. However, I just wanted to illustrate what Governments' can do, IF they have the will to do so ! Somebody cited the Swiss as a nation who continually implement Military Preparedness, by on-going training of every able bodied adult male, in basic military protocols. If they can do it, so can we, and at very little cost I believe.

Anyway, that's my two bob's worth !
Posted by o sung wu, Thursday, 17 July 2008 8:28:09 PM
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I was talking to a mate from Cairns last night who belongs to a gun club and has several rifles, and he was saying that many gun clubbers really believe that One World Government has its nose in the gun scene out here by encouraging tighter restrictions, even making it harder for gunsmiths to continue their profession.
He felt that the gunsmiths are getting so much legislative weight put upon them that they are under threat of going the way of the dinosaurs. Many of the gun clubbers feel that conspiracy exists to take their guns off them. I see no real evidence though...though Im always suspicious of OWG. I dont, for instance, think anyone engineered Pt Arthur like some do to get the guns off the people.

Anyway...if youre doing nothing perhaps you might tell others about the hole mentioned in the title of this thread.
You might write to the PM about it...though if he's really keen to see Australia closer to China maybe he wont want an increase in gun numbers (Im always suspcious of Labor. Did all of them really let go of the old Red communist thing when the Berlin Wall went down?).
The visions Ive collected since the late 1980's all paint a clear picture of enemy soldiers on Australian soil (all of our planes, submarines and ships were to no avail)... a clear picture of paratroopers, at least one amphibian landing, air attacks and land battles, towsna ablaze, the people flooding south into southern states and just about everyone conscripted. Its pretty bleak.
Only the very old and the very young escape the resistance.
I believe those visions and prophecies, as do many other born again christians.
They all mention the sins of the people as to why God permits it. Interesting isnt it?
God turns a nation over to its enemies because of the sins of its people.
HE sure has done that many, many times.
Posted by Gibo, Friday, 18 July 2008 7:53:15 AM
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Gibo, I agree that the OWG wants to stop all private ownership of firearms. Isn't there a sculpture of a revolver with its barrel tied in a knot at the UN building? As Alex Jones' website stated, 'politicians love disarmed peasants'. I sometimes wear a T shirt with that on it. You should see some of the disapproving looks, so it seems as if much of the public agree with the anti-gun lobby.

Where are you getting your visions, though? I mainly go for red wine or whisky (sometimes both) but I haven't even seen a pink elephant, never mind paratroopers or a frog (amphibian) landing.
Posted by Austin Powerless, Sunday, 20 July 2008 2:19:00 PM
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Hi Austin.
If you want a long read on the enemy click on <invader to australia visions and prophecies>.
I just set up a blog.

Back in 1989 or so I collected the first of many revelations about the invader from amongst pentecostal christians.
It started out as a small endeavour and has ended up all around the world in newspapers and intell services. Its all about China on the loose.

None of the revelations are mine of course. I wasnt Given any...just an opportunity to collect some.
Could be many more "out there", spanning some decades.
Posted by Gibo, Sunday, 20 July 2008 4:00:02 PM
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