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Missing posts

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We've received a couple of complaints that some posts are not appearing on the site after the submit button has been hit. After the first complaint we thought that it was an isolated event, but two other regular posters have made a similar complaint.

If you're experiencing problems entering and submitting comments, could you contribute to this thread so that we can sort out what the problem might be?

In the first place, just tell us what happened and anything you think might be relevant, like the type of browser you are using.
Posted by GrahamY, Monday, 21 April 2008 10:16:51 AM
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Hi Graham

I noticed (due to the attention drawn to it by others not myself) that a couple of posts to the 'Fitna fits Islam' thread had been deleted... apparently one at least was as there was a message sent out to some.

I won't repeat the post here, but simply note for others sake that it was concerning simply the legality of certain types of statements in the light of the RRT in Vic.

I then posted another asking if anyone had changed their view, or now took the view that God 'commanded' murder and rape in the Old testament.

Rather important questions given the problems Christians face in daily life from mocking, hate, and generally being regarded as 'child molesters' if you mention 'Church'. I've personally experienced this, and to be blunt "it sucks"... so, anything which is 'falsely' claimed by others which can add to this negativity against the flock, I become rather focused.

In all those posts in that thread, and with interaction with others, I've never tried to claim that God did not 'order' the elimination of certain people groups in judgement. I do take exception though to the claim that He "ordered" rape....because,.... He did not.

To all.. say what you like... but please be as sure as possible its true and supportable first.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Monday, 21 April 2008 2:32:22 PM
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No BOZO, I don't think that is what GY meant...?

Graham, I have noticed in the last two to three weeks that when I press 'post message' there is frequently a long enough delay for the 'time out' message thingy to comes up, so I have to repeat the process.

Sometimes I click again (BEFORE getting that message), and get a message that I cannot post the same message twice,- yet I had no acknowledgment that it had been posted at all!

Browser? Optusnet..?

AND...I notice that my history of navigating to different threads on the forum builds up in a small window on the toolbar showing (at present)-"3 Internet Explorer". When I log out I have to close each of these going back to where I've been on the site.......,if you see what I mean?
Posted by Ginx, Monday, 21 April 2008 3:36:11 PM
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You're right Ginx, I'm not sure what BD is talking about. I haven't deleted any of his responses for a while, and if I had, I would have told him and give him a warning, as I do everyone else.

Thanks for the info about the time out, and the trace. I don't get the trace, although we have one operating to try and keep a handle on sock puppets, and I've never experienced the time out in the forum, but it sometimes happens with admin functions.

BTW, if anyone posts to this thread and I don't answer fairly quickly, it will be because of the posting limit. Just a warning.
Posted by GrahamY, Monday, 21 April 2008 4:09:51 PM
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I have experienced the same problem as Ginx - time-out during uploading a post; my browser software is the latest Firefox. I don't experience this problem with other blog sites, only on OLO.
Posted by Fractelle, Monday, 21 April 2008 4:15:04 PM
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I get the time out thing too and it's flipping frustrating when you've just composed the cleverest and most insightful comment on earth to have it disappear into the ether.

IE and ISP is Soul. Also, I've been hanging around here for years and this is only a recent thing. Same as Fractelle, it doesn't happen anywhere else.

Is anyone else feeling rather silly now for not mentioning it before?
Posted by chainsmoker, Monday, 21 April 2008 5:16:49 PM
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hi to all the forgotten australians out their

i had trouble weeks ago and i was being told the sever was down

anyway i just want to say why im here

IS FOR THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERMENT TO READRESS THE FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIANS REPORT AND PROTECTING VUNLERABLE CHILDREN IN INSTITUTIONAL CARE AND OUT OF HOME CARE THE FIRST REPORT AUGUST 2004 AND THE SECOND REPORT MARCH 2005.

IM A REAL VICTIM OF THE RAPES AND ABUSE THAT OCCURRED IN THESE STATE RUN INSTITUTIONS IN THE STATE OF NEW SOUTH WALES

THIS IS REAL AND TRUE

AND I AM NOT THE ONLY VICTIM OF THIS AUSTRALIAN COVER UP BY THE STATE OF NEW SOUTH WALES

WE ARE THE FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIANS BUT WE WILL NO LONGER BE FORGOTTEN

REGARDS HUFFNPUFF
Posted by huffnpuff, Monday, 21 April 2008 5:24:41 PM
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You lot amaze me. I would never of found this thread if I had not stumbled across it by accident. It seemed to me to be hiding in an obscure corner of the web site, and its not like this site has any lack of obscure corners. It seems to have "evolved" but unlike Darwin evolution the old bits don't die, they just stop being updated. Yet none of you seem to of had any trouble finding it. What am I missing? How did you find it so quickly?

GrahamY: "I haven't deleted any of his responses for a while, and if I had, I would have told him and give him a warning, as I do everyone else." Excellent. My opinion of the editorial policies at OLO just keeps going up. But it would not hurt to say that you do that somewhere, perhaps in the forum rules?

GrahamY: "I don't answer fairly quickly, it will be because of the posting limit." The forum owner is subject to the posting limit. Your kidding me!
Posted by rstuart, Monday, 21 April 2008 6:09:02 PM
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Have been having trouble with the Time out/Double posting thing for some time - thought it was a China thing. So yep. Do feel rather silly for not mentioning it before.
Posted by Romany, Monday, 21 April 2008 6:17:22 PM
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It would really help to know more about what the posters themselves are seeing, at the time comments are posted.

If you receive a timeout or similar message while posting, please copy it to your clipboard (highlight, right-click, "Copy"), use the "Feedback" link in the yellow strip at the bottom of the screen, and paste the message (right-click, "Paste"). Include a concise description of what you were doing immediately before the problem, eg, "I had previewed a general comment and clicked the post button; it took a long time and then displayed this message; it's 18:44".

Many thanks to those of you who have already submitted information.
Posted by Dewi, Monday, 21 April 2008 7:37:07 PM
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Don't beat yourself up over it, rstuart.

The 'Technical Support' area of the Forums must first be 'invoked'. Its always 'there', but not always 'on show'.

The default Forum display will keep a topic on display in the Technical Support area for one month, unless that particular topic is pushed down by other topics succeeding it at a sufficient rate. To date, such has not often (if ever) happened. Should no topic succeed one posted in this area, the whole 'area' will languish and disappear from the boards. Until recently, this languishing was the apparent status quo with respect to 'Technical Support". Hence you saw it not, for it was not there to see!

The 'invocation' is made when you enter the dialogue 'start a new discussion' by clicking the relevant button. You are asked as to what area of the Forums your post should be made in. You click the relevant box, and, behold, unless you have run into the problem that is the subject of this thread, your topic (upon approval) duly appears in this area of the Forum.

Whilst I can't claim to have run into the specific problem that is the subject of this thread, it is good to see Forum users realizing that there may be things happening here that are not necesarily as intended by the Forum administration. IMHO it would be naive to think that this site was not a target for 'cracker' interference, which is not to say that that is necessarily the likely cause of the problem, but it would be foolish to dismiss such possibility out of hand.

Its presumably no big deal, but I've yet to see any acknowledgement of the 'italics' curiosity raised in my post to the thread 'Archiving of threads suppressing comment?' in this area. Has not anybody noticed it from time to time?

What about a 'sticky' on Forum use and features, Graham Y?

PS And yea, I have found where articles get their first comments from, and how articles enter from other than the top of the list!
Posted by Forrest Gumpp, Monday, 21 April 2008 8:48:14 PM
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Chainsmoker... I find the 'back' button will often take me back to those insightful posts...but also, another trick I learned from BITTER experience on youtube.. COPY your post to the clipboard before hitting the 'send/post' button.

Noting irritates me more than doing a thoughtful, insightful, wonderful, fantastic, amazing, LONGGGGG and most of all 'humble' :) post to something only to be told "Message too long" and you are suddenly logged OUT, or.. you get 'Internal server error' and whole lot of mish mash meaningless gibberish lettering.

But on the 'time out' thing... (OLO) yep..I get that sometimes.

GY..'noted'.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 5:32:01 AM
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I'm driving a mac with firefox. Long delay trying to post, followed by time out. Back button, post again, message I have already posted that item?
Check the site and there it is?
Very recent?
fluff4
Posted by fluff4, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 11:09:03 AM
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Yes rstuart, the forum moderator is subject to the rules. I haven't needed to break them yet, and would only do so if there was some sort of an emergency.

We're still trying to work out what the problem is, but will let you know when we do. I agree with the suggestions about copying and pasting into notebook or some other text editor. It's a precaution that we all should take, and not just on this site. I've lost a few blog posts through carelessness in saving, and it's hard to write something again from scratch.
Posted by GrahamY, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 11:13:57 AM
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I've experienced the same thing Fluff4 describes, being told the post failed for some reason, then finding it's there after all. I wonder whether this is why you occasionally see the same comment posted twice.

Off topic, although it gets a bit loony sometimes I'm really happy to see the general forum gaining momentum. People are able to discuss things that directly effect them without someone else setting the agenda, which is fantastic. Lots of stuff that has little to do with the grand theme of democracy, but lots to do with the day to day stuff of actual people. Messy, but highly satisfying IMHO.
Posted by chainsmoker, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 11:35:25 AM
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GrahamY,

I have just had a 'timeout expire' message from OLO whilst trying to access the discussion index from the 'Discuss' page. The message was:

"Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server error '80040e31'
Timeout expire
D:\INETPUB\~TNF\WWWROOT-FORUM\../codebase/forum/index.asp, line 35"

I was attempting access at 11:56 AM (by my computer time, which could be a few minutes out).

At 12:04 PM I was able to get the index via the same page without difficulty almost immediately.

I am using Ubuntu Linux 7.10, with Mozilla Firefox as the browser.

I don't generally have much difficulty or delay in the OLO site loading pages, unless I am experiencing general bandwidth availablity limiting access to all sites on the internet.

Don't know whether this feedback helps with the more specific problem of disappearing posts.
Posted by Forrest Gumpp, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 12:28:12 PM
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Send it to the 'Feedback' facility as Dewi suggested FG.

I had the same about 20 minutes earlier than you and put it into feedback.

I also believe that each time one clicks to post, even if unsuccessful; the post appears to be counted!

By the time I got my post up (3 tries...I think..),- I got the post limit message!

I have discussed this with Gibo and feel certain that it is little purple and orange beings with two heads, and six eyes in each,-AND hands that have 24 fingers and no thumbs!

They have infiltrated the system, and have used their testicles...,sorry; tentacles to gum up the works.

Gibo is convinced of this. I defer to his expertise.
Posted by Ginx, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 2:14:12 PM
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Ginx - too funny

Graham

Here's the error message I get:

Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server error '80040e31'
Timeout expired
D:\INETPUB\~TNF\WWWROOT-FORUM\../codebase/forum/includes/sub_add_comment_article.asp, line 18
Posted by Fractelle, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 2:18:26 PM
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Thank you to Forrest, Ginx, and Fractelle.

That gives us a lot more to go on. The server does not seem to be under much strain, so I believe simultaneous activity from different users is setting up database locks in some kind of "tangled" arrangement.

This is probably a symptom of the Forum growing busier. Similar to gridlocks in road traffic, a seemingly healthy flow can be thrown into total chaos by one ill-timed event.

Work on the problem is on-going; in the mean-time it might be a good idea to "Select, Right-click, Copy" long comments before going ahead. And try to be reasonably patient; repeated clicking can make things worse (lots of extra locks).

Ginx: Unsuccessful posts are definitely not counted; they have been sinking without a trace. According to my records, your first post at 1:11:31 was not recorded, but your second at 1:12:50 was successful, and I am guessing you would have seen the post limit message on a third or subsequent click.
Posted by Dewi, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 3:02:56 PM
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YIKES... "Dewi" is... one of ....THEM :) (an OLO staffer) it appears....

I lub you Dewi :) by the way..NICE Shirt/top...and those shoes! man..

GINX.. sorry cobber.. you were referring not to GIBO..but to TOM CRUISE, JOHN TRAVOLTA and their buddies in 'that' errr.. religion :)

Hey.. it just occurred to me, hmm were you by any chance holding Gibo's faith up to 'public ridicule and contempt' ? ..hmmmm *ponders*.....

It seemed to work pretty good....a bit of chiming in after your post from fragrant Fractelle.

You mob should join my 'anti RRT' team..so that you can make little humorous mocking jibes at people without worryin about being taken to legal task about it. In fact.. you can mock MY faith with impugnity then. (like 'that' doesn't happen already eh)
Posted by BOAZ_David, Wednesday, 23 April 2008 6:22:29 AM
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Come on Boaz, this is a thread trying to solve a problem that you've complained about, and my reading of their comments is that they are laughing at Gibo, not his religion. Even if they were laughing at his religion I wouldn't have a problem, but, but do you think you can keep your comments on topic?
Posted by GrahamY, Wednesday, 23 April 2008 6:50:23 AM
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Hello Graham

Well as you already know some time ago we started new threads. You didn’t get them and btw why does it not give the poster a copy?
Anyway I think you may have fixed that.
That has happened several times but not for quite some time.
If it happens again we will copy error message and post it here.
Thank You for your attention to this problem.

Boazie I don’t quite know what the problem is but have you considered divine intervention :)
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Wednesday, 23 April 2008 9:35:52 AM
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Graham,
Today 26-4-08 I endeavoured to post ont the Anzac Day thread and this message came up.

Microsoft VB script runtime error 800a0046

Pemission denied

D:VNETPUB\-TNFWWWROOT-FORUM\../ codebase forum /includes/sub/_comment.usp, line 278

This is the first time this has happened to me and I'll give the post a miss as I do not think I can get it correct a second time.
Posted by Banjo, Saturday, 26 April 2008 12:29:53 PM
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Graham,
Today I logged on and surprized to find that my post of yesterday was actually there, twice.

Given the message I received, I do not understand it. When received the 'permission denied' message, I may have tried to go back in effort to get my post up again, with a view of resubmitting.

When I have problems with this PC, I usually find it is my error so this could well be the case this time.
Posted by Banjo, Sunday, 27 April 2008 10:48:24 AM
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Hi Graham,

Two time outs.

Error message: Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server error '80040e31'

Timeout expired

D:\INETPUB\~TNF\WWWROOT-FORUM\../codebase/forum/includes/sub_add_comment_article.asp, line 189

I'm using Firefox on a Mac.
Posted by Vanilla, Monday, 28 April 2008 2:50:06 PM
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Oh, and now it posted twice.

Feel free to delete the reproduction for me — I feel like a dolt.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=7287#111998
Posted by Vanilla, Monday, 28 April 2008 2:52:46 PM
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Graham,

I see you deleted that post for me. Thanks very much. Thanks for that, and all you do for us silly forum addicts.

Vanilla
Posted by Vanilla, Monday, 28 April 2008 7:14:29 PM
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Graham
I too now am having problems with time-outs and error messages.
Like Vanilla, I have "posted" twice to an article within a minute.
Could you please remove one of them?

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=7295

Thanks in advance.
Posted by Q&A, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 9:39:59 AM
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Update,

Message received a few times today when trying to post.

Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server error '80040e31'
Timeout expired
D:\INETPUB\~TNF\WWWROOT-FORUM\../codebase/forum/includes/sub_add_comment_article.asp, line 189

I have also noticed "double comments" on a number of threads now by various people.

Also, I am getting emails that say so-and-so have posted to such-and-such but on visiting, they are not there.

What is happening OLO's end?
Posted by Q&A, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:59:58 AM
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Update No.2

Ok, now I want to post a 2nd comment on an article thread but can't because I have reached my limit due to the "double posting".

This OLO glitch is now becoming very frustrating and inconvenient for everyone ... methinks.

I'm no computer whiz, but the problem seems to be OLO's end. It seems you have had enough feedback now to have fixed the bug.

Hope all is well soon.
Posted by Q&A, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 12:16:21 PM
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Well you did ask.........................!!
Posted by Ginx, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 1:39:21 PM
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Another timeout. Something is definitely wrong. These are becoming common now.
Posted by Ginx, Tuesday, 29 April 2008 10:18:49 PM
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When first attempting to post, I of course am asked to log in. Having done that I receive the message that I have logged-in. At this point I am in a different tab to that in which I was viewing the thread. So I close the tab, and am returned to my original view of the thread, but in an apparently different tab to that in which I was viewing it before logging in.

In this (apparently duplicated) original view, I click for the second time the new post button, and this time get the post composition window and associated options. I copy and paste my pre-compiled post from my text editor (Gedit) into this window, click the preview button, and check the post. When OK, I click the submit button immediately below the preview window.

Normally, I get the message that the new post has been recorded, and, after a short delay, the thread re-appears with the new post at its end. To get back to the 'users currently online' page from here, however, I have to close the tab and then click on the original tab in which I first started viewing the thread, and then click the back button in my browser.

At around 7:30 AM today I posted to the topic 'NSW Power Sell or not?', but even though I got the 'new post recorded' message, when after the short delay the thread came up again, my new post did not appear. Knowing this problem has been occurring, I did not attempt to resubmit, but closed the tab and went back to the original tab, clicked back to the 'discuss' page, then moved through the index and viewed the thread. My new post was there!

No error message came up at any stage. I am using Mozilla Firefox under Ubuntu Linux 7.10.

Hope the detail is of some help as to where this problem is arising.
Posted by Forrest Gumpp, Thursday, 1 May 2008 8:31:16 AM
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Graham or Dewi,

From my end, posting these last few days has been "quicker" than I have experienced over the last few weeks, without the error messages I should add.

Any feedback from your end?
Posted by Q&A, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 9:22:08 AM
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Hi Graham and gang - I had been feeling smugly immune to OLO's server and database woes, but I just had a post disappear into the ether. Fortunately I could recover it by clicking the back arrow.

The message I got was:

Server Error
Incident number 107-0509
Staff have been notified of the incident

(which means this post is probably superfluous!)

Anyway, it posted OK on the second attempt :)
Posted by CJ Morgan, Monday, 12 May 2008 9:15:25 AM
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Last night I rolled out a fix for the comment posting slowness & timeouts, which looks like it is working.

(The issue was related to the way Microsoft Data Access Objects cursors behave on large tables: the article comments table has reached the critical size where our old method stops working reliably, and causes a lot of server load.)

This should mean we also see improvements in general site speed, which has been patchy some days (like yesterday).

Those of you experiencing problems recently will have noticed that the crash messages have been replaced with a red/grey box which just supplies you with an "incident number", and more importantly sends a stack of technical details to us here. If you quote your incident number when talking to us about a fault, we can reliably see what technical details correspond to your specific issue.

This recording/reporting facility has given us a lot more information about some other problems, such as occasional timeouts on the front pages, which will be addressed soon.

I'm sorry it has taken so long to sort out the article comments problem - unfortunately the problems have come in threes, as we've had two hard drive failures in the office in the last 3 weeks.
Posted by Dewi, Tuesday, 13 May 2008 12:04:54 PM
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Thanks for this Dewi, now we know what the new message is about.

It's a relief to hear that there IS a problem....,er, if you see what I mean!
Posted by Ginx, Tuesday, 13 May 2008 1:21:03 PM
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I'd like to just confirm a couple of things:

1) Comments that failed to post are not, and never were, counted in your daily limits.

2) Duplicate post detection relies on hashes ("comment fingerprints") which are recorded *after* posting, so it will never complain your post is a duplicate unless it has been successfully posted previously. People keep complaining that they clicked "reload" a few times, saw this message, and then noticed their comment had been posted, but this is what I would expect if you reloaded one more time than necessary.

However, there exists a race condition bug in the duplicate detection system that has been allowing some dupes through during times of high server load. This will be fixed soon.
Posted by Dewi, Tuesday, 13 May 2008 3:43:40 PM
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Thanks Dewi for giving us updates.
Great job.
Posted by Q&A, Tuesday, 13 May 2008 5:04:32 PM
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Graham,

Hi. Did you notice my comment on Michael Ruse's OLO article being duplicated from Issues?

Realise you might have missed my post there, so excuse me for posting here, where I suspect you monitoring closely.

Cheers,

O.
Posted by Oliver, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 1:40:59 PM
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I'm not sure whether the problem I am about to describe fits within the scope of the posting problems this thread is meant to deal with, but it is a posting problem.

From some time in the afternoon of Sat 10 May until some time just before 11:00 PM on Mon 12 May, although able to log in, I was unable to post to the Forum.

When I clicked on the 'new post' button I would be taken to the log-in dialog page, as normal. I entered my unchanged email address and password, clicked the 'do not set a cookie, I am at a public terminal' option, then clicked the log-in button. I then received a message that I had successfully logged in and that I should return to what I had been doing. So far everything was occurring as normal.

I closed the tab for the log-in page, and was returned to a tab in which the thread was shown. Upon clicking the 'new post' button again, instead of being taken to the posting window page, I would be returned to the log-in dialog page. This was an endless loop. I could not post.

On the third day after onset, the problem disappeared as mysteriously as it had come, without there having been any change in posting procedure on my part. I was subsequently able to make two posts, one on Monday, 12 May 2008 10:56:04 PM to http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1772#35381 , and another on Tuesday, 13 May 2008 at 9:47:59 AM to http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1684#35398.

When I attempted to post again around 4:00 PM on Tuesday, the problem had recurred.

I had not at any time exceeded any posting limits, nor had my posting rights suspended.

I was able to lodge several feedback reports with OLO whilst unable to make a normal post, and did so.

I was just wondering if any other OLO users have experienced any similar problems but not reported them?
Posted by Forrest Gumpp, Thursday, 15 May 2008 4:44:17 AM
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