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The Forum > Article Comments > Climate change is already costing lives and dollars > Comments

Climate change is already costing lives and dollars : Comments

By Barrie Pittock and Andrew Glikson, published 22/12/2009

Climate change impacts and costs are not merely something for future generations to bear, they are being experienced now.

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raredog, i think you missed my point. you and andy1 are free to debate climate science, but i think such debates here are pretty silly, and i will take no part. however, if you are going to attempt argue the science, references are appropriate.

what i don't like is cartoon science a la atman: bold statement with one reference, labelled THE expert, about one tiny part of the globe. that is simply junk.

as for why you think a politically created royal commission has any chance of exhibiting more integrity or accuracy than the scientific community, god only knows.
Posted by bushbasher, Thursday, 24 December 2009 6:19:54 PM
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Andy1. Good information on sea level issues. But tell me. How do you recognise/account for local subsidence/emergence issues, and how they affect recorded sea level. For example, it is well recognised that Port Adelaide is experiencing subsidence due to withdrawal of water from the subterranean water resource. However, the august CSIRO doesn't bother to advise that subsidence is happening, and instead reports rates of sea level rise that are high by Australian standards.

Similarly, Darwin gave an excellent exposition as to why islands in the Pacific (and elsewhere) are subject to rise and fall due to fluctuations in the underlying volcanic edifices
Posted by Herbert Stencil, Thursday, 24 December 2009 9:41:19 PM
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Regarding the methodology of sea level measurements, these are scanned from satellites and tide gauges world-wide, taking local variations into account. The latter include the effects of warm and cold ocean currents, tides, local changes in sedimentation, tectonic uplift and subsidence, gravitational effects of continents and of ice masses and other factors. The USGS monitors sea levels in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. Authorities in Australia include John Church and his group at CSIRO. Look at: http://www.csiro.au/news/OceansWarming.html

On the broader issue, as stated by US Senator John Kerry

“There isn’t a nation on the planet where the evidence of the impacts of climate change isn’t mounting. Frankly, those who look for any excuse to continue challenging the science have a fundamental responsibility which they have never fulfilled: Prove us wrong or stand down. Prove that the pollution we put in the atmosphere is not having the harmful effect we know it is. Tell us where the gases go and what they do. Pony up one single, cogent, legitimate, scholarly analysis. Prove that the ocean isn’t actually rising; prove that the ice caps aren’t melting, that deserts aren’t expanding. And prove that human beings have nothing to do with any of it. And by the way — good luck!”
Posted by Andy1, Friday, 25 December 2009 11:54:20 AM
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Andy1 I would not trust a word of John Kerry.Here is a senator who has over $ 30 million invested in US arms suppliers and supports their trumped up wars of aggression based on lies. http://www.wearechange.org/
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 26 December 2009 7:11:09 PM
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Play the ball, not the man ...

With the exception of rapid atmospheric changes triggered by major volcanic events, asteroid impacts and methane release, which led to the great mass extinction of species, the current rate of CO2 rise (2005-08: 1.66-2.55 ppm/year) is unprecedented in the recent history of the Earth, driving polar ice melt and sea level rise rates in excess of IPCC projections. Warming of large parts of the Arctic and Antarctic circles by 3-4oC during 1975-2009 (~0.09–0.12 degrees C/year) triggers fast feedback effects from ice melt, albedo loss and open water infrared absorption, and from the carbon cycle. Estimates of future sea level rise derived from 40 years records (1.6-3.7 mm/year), glacier flow rates and ice shelf collapse dynamics, and yet little-quantified positive feedbacks, render exponential to non-linear sea level rise on the scale of tens of meters over the next few centuries possible. The rise in the oceans heat content (1950-2004: 16.10^22 Joules), lowered pH (8.2 - 8.1), and enhancement of the CO3(-2) to HCO3(-) transition, threatens algae, calcifying plankton and reef habitats from shallow habitats to abyssal depths. The rise in CO2 emissions by 41% since 1990, and continuing land clearing, go counter to the urgently required measures at mitigation, massive reforestation, revegetation, application of biochar and chemical draw-down of atmospheric CO2. The best outcomes of the looming Copenhagen climate summit, 25 percent carbon emission reduction relative to 1990 levels, will be unable to arrest the rise of mean global temperatures over 2 degrees Celsius relative to pre-industrial levels. While governments vie to vested interests and economists calculate the “price of the Earth”, underpinned by an ideology of mastery over nature the human denial syndrome is enhanced by a massive disinformation campaign by pro-carbon contrarians, who the basic laws of physics and chemistry and fraudulently alter climate data
Posted by Andy1, Saturday, 26 December 2009 10:34:07 PM
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So Andy1,you see no conflict of interest here? Kerry becomes a multi-millionaire on the back of illegal wars,yet is to believed as a persurer of truth in the environmental arena? They want the carbon derivatives to trade on the share market to make more profits.They also want the carbon taxes to run their New World Order.

Al Gore the dion of the the AGW movement said in 1995 that he created the internet.What credibility has he? CO2 is not a poison.The world's temps have actually fallen in the last 8 yrs.Climategate wants to "hide the decline."

What is really costing lives is the debt slavery created by the global banksters.They have third world countries in the grip of debt,their living standards won't rise and thus they have numerous children.
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 27 December 2009 11:47:46 PM
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