Dodgey data, dodgey manipulation, dodgey culture, and you think we should be worried about the dodgey PR! Not every fool in the world, Fred, was buying it from the start, and climategate only reinforces what many have long suspected. "Problem" tree ring data from the 1960s? Hmm, this'll fix it, because it's only "probably" due to nitrogen or whatever. Ever wondered if there are a few other "probablies" and "possiblies" in the history of planet earth? Climate "science" (actually modelling and stats which can say whatever you want) is compromised by political activism. If CO2 concentrations are a problem, get our most imaginative and ingenious to work on ways of removing it from the atmosphere - that's what creative people in the past, and my cleaning lady would do (not that CO2 is a pollutant - that's just more spin). Solvents, vaccuums, chemical reactions, - get on with it. Brainstorm! But as this is political, it has to be all about cutting emissions. It's just another way for self-righteous hypocrites to attack development, democracy, free trade and civilisation, which from what I can see have greatly improved man's lot over the last century - but ooh, it's a wittle bit warmer. So, hey, let's punish the well-off, engage in grandiose protests like on the Sydney Opera House today to draw attention to Copenhagen (thanks guys, I might have missed it - why don't you just go and kick letter boxes like other ferals) and more importantly keep the poor poor, and make the struggling workers of the world get priced out of home and hearth. (so much for the old concerns of the Left!) God bless those African nations for walking out in Copenhagen, although of course they know how to play politics too!

I have great concern about the statement explaining why Phil Jones wouldn't release the data.. "It is worth explaining why that was so. Jones had always refused to release the data, partly, as the emails reveal, because he simply didn’t want to..........(other reasons given)"

Because he didn't want to! So we should just accept this as a good enough reason? I am stunned.

Spindoc

<< Q&A, I feel your pain, you have every right to be angry and you have invested much. The first stage is anger/denial. Without your acceptance of being “had” you are at risk of getting “stuck” within the trauma cycle never to emerge. >>

Excuse me?

No Spindoc, I am not in any pain (so I can't imagine what your feeling) - nor am I angry.

The rest of your spiel is just spin, so apt.

Has anyone wondered by the Russians hardly took part in Copenhagen? Because in that huge country their scientists, who in the past have put people into space, have been taking readings all over Russia on climate change "global warming" and sending the information to the English Climate Change Centre or whatever they call it, where their scientists politely cherry picked the information. Hence the Russians were not actually convinced about the whole scenario of the Copenhagen debarcle. The English seem to have "gone cold" on it too. The only ones that seem to be "red hot" to trot is our Mr. Rudd and Ms Wong. Lucky us, we might get an ETS regardless so the brainless protestors on the Opera House may get their wish. Of course most of those twits don't pay tax, they don't work!

Why not try cleaning up carbon monoxide, that would help, in Sydney anyway. But that would not attract a tax. Sorry I keep bringing up the tax, but I will never be happy to pay taxes to put money into the pockets of people like Magabe or any of the leaders of the African countries who only take whatever they get for themselves and still kill their people. They kill more people than climate change because their wars and violence will not allow the people to live any sort of lifestyle and there will still be droughts in Africa.

As for sinking islands in the Pacific and a disappearing Great Barrier Reef, get real, bring on another fairy story. It's not happening. You don't believe it, go look for yourself and talk to the people who live and work there.

Raebee

You may, or may not, be interested:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=9844#158279

People believe what they want to believe - quite often, facts and truth are collateral damage.

Thanks Q&A, I am interested in all sides, though it may seem I am one sided sometimes or perhaps most of the time.

That's because I don't trust politicians and their motives. I also think they are told what they want to hear and do what is expedient to collect more taxes.

I wonder, if we get another change of government, will we get another tax, we got the GST with Howard, we look like getting an ETS of some form with the Rudd team. I wonder what they will call the next one if the Liberals get back in? Or will they just up the ante on the GST?How much is enough?

You know as well as I do we cannot "save the world". And it certainly won't be done with more taxes; the world is over-populated now. Modern medicine saves lives that would not have been saved previously, for what? To live a deprived life in an over populated world, still starving to death or being killed? But perhaps that's what some people want. I don't know anymore.

We cannot make this world a Utopia. Cynical, of course I am, but us cynics are open to argument. However, I can't see myself changing my opinion about carbon trading,nor the Labour Goverment and I was a very left wing most of my life. Not now. I really used to think Labour was about a fair deal for the ordinary person. Not any more.