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The Forum > Article Comments > Ending it ... > Comments

Ending it ... : Comments

By David Fisher, published 26/10/2009

A person who wishes to end his or her existence could be helped to do so in a suitable way if their wish is rational.

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With respect, King Hazza, there are many ifs and buts: most importantly, how do you distinguish between euthanasia and murder, to the satisfaction of the courts or the police ?
Imagine: a wealthy aunt, very frail and incapacitated. A nephew cares for her. He is to inherit everything. She passes away suddenly of a drug overdose. The nephew says it was her wish. How is a court to decide between foul play and voluntary death ?
What definite sign can a person give that they want to die, and be helped to die, although they cannot do it themselves ? If they can do it themselves, it is not euthanasia, it is suicide.
So euthaniasia is surely confined to those few cases where a person cannot kill themselves but can somehow make their intentions clear, to the satisfaction of a court that murder (or manslaughter) has not been committed. A pretty fine line ?

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Monday, 26 October 2009 11:03:15 PM
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A good article David, and I would add ; so far good postings, All of them have merit.
In the final analysis,although suicide might be illegal, people do it for all sorts of reasons and the prospect of legal action seems a bit ludicrous.
Despite Kevin Andrews unwelcome act of overturning Marshall's ROTI law, Phillip Nietzke continues with his crusade to educate the religious fanatics in our midst.It is to be hoped many people make submissions to the Senate enquiry
I have contributed in the past on this subject. I am a fan of Phillip Nietzke and followed his varied and commendable proposals with interest. I will certainly compose a submission.
I know what I will do if I find myself in a terminally ill state.
Posted by maracas1, Monday, 26 October 2009 11:21:33 PM
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Good call Loudmouth, and I have indeed thought about the issue;

I think a sound legal measures would require evidence of some kind of desire to die from the deceased expressed to either a lawyer or a doctor- either in the past as some form of 'disclaimer' (foreseeing a possible inability to express this wish when a debilitation occurs), or during the illness directly to such a person.

It's a good legal blueprint, but there are a LOT of flaws in my above proposal (a person who didn't feel the need to express a hypothetical with to be euthanized prior to the illness and is now incapable of expressing it would be left in the lurch). At this point I think it should be to the discretion of a judge or doctor to determine whether the relation to the deceased acted with intent to euthanize for the deceased's benefit or aimed to profit from his/her death.

This aspect of the issue is very complicated and will need to be analyzed in more detail (tomorrow for me).

But in the context of the ill person directly conveying such a wish to a doctor, I believe there is really no grounds to deny them.
The hypothetical possibility of an heir trying to speed up their death to get their money by encouraging them to die might warrant an assessment by a professional to determine the motive- but even then it's possible that the patient might still want to die anyway.

What I shudder to propose is any right for the doctor to deny the patient Euthanasia treatment because they might (wrongly) assume the patient doesn't REALLY want to die- or isn't of sound-enough mind to make the decision properly. Hence why I'm wary of the exceptions to allowing the treatment.

I think the only grounds to deny the treatment is if the patient beyond doubt lacks a terminal disease or debilitating illness or injury that may impair quality of life or ability to function normally.
Posted by King Hazza, Monday, 26 October 2009 11:57:20 PM
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Interesting letters , Particular the elderly man who had to cut his own throat , personal experience (killing sheep) affords me the knowledge that this is no mean feat , a very ugly scene indeed .
That he alone decided that he wanted to go is in my opinion all that is required ; although if he wanted me to help I wouldn't want to .
On the other hand if he was horribly uncomfortable and in terminal pain that would be different I would on his behalf contact the euthanasia Specialist on his/her behalf.

Personally I intend to go early myself ASA all my kids leave home .
My urgency is Alzheimer's , I have memory problems now , as each day passes something new is a mystery , sounds sad I guess but I am now used too and accept my position , I have gone from a super speller to a Hyper-Cypher , I can't talk to anyone and that is really sad , one likes to remember a trip some where but I can't remember a place name here and there ; people make suggestions etc but in the end I get the feeling that I am just a qualified MadMonty , so now I avoid talking , I try to be quick and witty then disappear .

My big worry is leaving it too late , the man with the juice can't respond if you have lost your marbles .
Posted by ShazBaz001, Monday, 26 October 2009 11:59:53 PM
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I think King Hazza that you live in a more black and white world than I do. I think Doctors have a perfect right not to offer some services. I think any attempt to coerce such doctors to be involved against their conscience in procedures that they consider immoral or that are harmful to their patients is a dangerous thing. Afterall in China the State orders it's doctors to abort unwilling pregnant woman, some so late in pregnancy that some babies are reportably born breathing before being dispatched. Yet the State sees it as moral and the doctors obviously run the risk of repercussions if they refuse. Some questions about the when life begins or the morality of being involved in ending it are not black and white.

This is why Government should step in and make sure such procedures are available by recruiting appropriate willing staff and actually building public clinics where you can access such services instead of bringing in useless bits of legislation to try and bully doctors.

My family GP does not offer immunisations. I haven't discussed it with him, but if it's because he thinks that immunisations are a bad thing and harm his patients, then who am I to try and run all over the top of him, and maybe try and get him disiplined, instead of looking elsewhere for the service. If he has similar quarms over euthanasia, I wouldn't want him involved anyway with my departure. I'd like a cheerful specialist with no hangups. I don't want to live in a intolerant world where the seculists bull-doze people that they see as superstitious, rather than in a plural society where a little generousity of spirit from the seculists can achieve a outcome that has a better outcomes, ie more health clinics, properly funded and staffed and more services offered.
Posted by JL Deland, Tuesday, 27 October 2009 1:55:50 AM
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To the religious right & the atheith'st left.
God has given his word and he will not change it to suit us. We must change our mind if we want the truth. The buck stops with man and is about choice not which opinion fits MY point of view.
It is and always has been Heaven or Hell and is an individual choice not an accident. We have the left,then we have the right and we also have the point of balance which is the true plumb so there is a third point of view.
Posted by Richie 10, Thursday, 29 October 2009 9:36:25 AM
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