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The Forum > Article Comments > On reclaiming Christianity from the West > Comments

On reclaiming Christianity from the West : Comments

By Irfan Yusuf, published 17/9/2009

Maybe we would stop stereotyping non-Christians if we stopped stereotyping Christianity.

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Dear ChrisPer,

You described the west as 'heterogeneous and tolerant'? The German part of the 'heterogeneous and tolerant' west murdered 11,000,000 untermenschen including 6,000,000 Jews. There was a Conference on Jewish refugees in 1938 at Evian les Bains in France. The Nazi government passed laws that progressively deprived German Jews of citizenship and property rights, rights to work in most occupations and the right to marry non-Jews.

The Nazis would not allow Jews to take property out of Germany. The would-be host countries did not want poor Jews. Australia agreed to receive 15,000 within the ensuing three years but actually only admitted about 10,000, pleading that they wanted a "uniform population." Heterogeneous? Tolerant?'

The Australian part of the 'heterogeneous and tolerant' west has put people fleeing tyranny in detention camps and has only in 1967 decided that Aborigines who were living on the land before European settlement are citizens. In 1928 A WW1 veteran shot 32 Aborigines at Coniston in the Northern Territory after Aborigines attacked a white dingo trapper and station owner. A court of inquiry said the action was ‘justified'. It is only in the twentieth century that Australia abandoned its White Australia policy.

We can also be aware that except for Turkey and Afghanistan all the Muslim lands were at the beginning of the twentieth century protectorates or colonies of the west due to conquest. Many Christian churches supported western imperialism to bring enlightenment to the 'ungodly' masses who didn't follow the Christian humanoid God.

Many Muslim states subjugate women. At the beginning of the twentieth century most women in the 'heterogeneous and tolerant' west did not have the right to vote.

President Bush lied the US into a war which started with "shock and awe" bombing. How many Iraqis were killed in the 'shock and awe?' Will Bush be tried for his crimes as he tried Saddam Hussein?

Benjam1n asked: if they were so tolerant, why would the Spanish so badly want them gone and kick them out?

Answer: Because the Christian bigots did not want tolerance. Their Inquisition burned people at the stake.
Posted by david f, Friday, 18 September 2009 2:42:44 PM
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Dear Jon J,
Perhaps you were not aware that most universities and sites for higher learning were founded by Christians. All but two of the first 108 universities founded in America were Christian.

Many great scientists were Christians. Isaac Newton, James Clerk Maxwell, Copernicus, Kepler, Planck, Lord Kelvin and many more. Many highly educated people in our day & age believe in a God, so you can hardly say that higher education destroys faith in a higher Being.

The printing press was invented by Gutenberg so that the Bible could be distributed into the hands of as many people as possible. The number of believers INCREASED rather than decreased because of “education”.

The Bible is the most printed book in the world. Only literate people would buy one, so obviously there are quite a few people around that don’t share your opinion that Christianity and lack of education go hand in hand.

True Christianity does not fear well-educated followers. Why should it? Christianity is not about head knowledge. It’s about a relationship. So whether you are well-educated or poorly educated, God is the same and the enjoyment of a Father in heaven is equally available to all.

God gave us a brain and He expects us to use it. Every person has a right to an education. Every person also has freedom of choice - whether to believe in a God or not - but that ability or desire has NOTHING to do with their level of education.

Do not make the mistake of bundling all religions or belief systems together. The Taliban is nothing like Christianity.
And to say:
Since 're-establishing our Christian heritage' means re-establishing ignorance, prejudice and mind-warping superstition, the sooner we eradicate it completely the better.
is such a broad generalisation as to be meaningless. What sect or 18th-century view of the Church are you basing that comment on? Certainly the churches I am aware of (of all denominations) are nothing like this.

Every organisation or group of people has its extremists. But to base your arguments on these people is unhelpful and misleading.
Posted by MartinsS, Friday, 18 September 2009 3:27:42 PM
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"Do not make the mistake of bundling all religions or belief systems together. The Taliban is nothing like Christianity." - Martin

Christianity was very much like the Taliban after Constantine:

http://www.mountainman.com.au/essenes/article_060.htm

After three centuries of persecuting the pagans, Christians fought amongst themselves for a century over the role of icons, then we the Crusades, the Great Schicism, thence the Inquisition and next the religious wars of the Reformation and afterwards came witch hunts, slavery and colonisations, the ethnic cleansing of American Indians by Christians, the Monkey Trials and Hitler (read Mein Kampf).

I suspect the Koran and the Thoughts and Words of Mao Tze Tung, would contest for second place for the most published book.

Re-establishing true Christianity would require going back to the Jewish sect which existed before Hadrian expelled the Jews from the Holy Lands. Back to a time, when people could better remember the remarkable mendicant on a mission from the House of David. A teacher whom would have little respect for the sweep of Christianity's history.
Posted by Oliver, Friday, 18 September 2009 4:13:59 PM
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Secularism and the Taliban have far more in common than Christianity has with the Taliban. The number of unborn murdered, suicides as a result of godless advice and the blind faith secularist live by testify to both belief systems resulting in death to the most vulnerable.
Posted by runner, Friday, 18 September 2009 5:34:08 PM
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Hi STEZZA and MartinsS....I respect your opinion and your belief, so the only way I can try to further explain what I belief is thus:

Catholicism, Atheism, Communism, Methodism, Muslims, and proberly all the other ism out there have no real scientific proof of their truths. Yet people BELIEF in them and in many cases have been very good for people and their progress. The Wright Brothers BELIEVED that they could produce a flying machine, contrary to all available science at that point.

I have been told that the word belief is derived from BE LIEF, which literally translated, means TO LOVE, so to belief in something, you are actually “in love with the idea”.

Now my understanding is, Albert Einstein “believed” in GOD (one of the few scientists that I know of that did). And he believed there was a connection between Quantum Physics and infinite intelligence (God). My understanding is that he believed that the now so called Heisenberg Uncertainty principle is infact Infinite Intelligence at work.

From the tone of the comments , it would seem that quite a few people are academics on this forum. Now I am not too sure if you guys are in the same league as Albert Einstein, but I believe he was right. I also believe we all draw from the same source of intelligence, so it does not really matter in the end.

In the end we all have our believes
Posted by jakkelaas, Saturday, 19 September 2009 9:40:57 AM
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Jakkelaas wrote: "The Wright Brothers BELIEVED that they could produce a flying machine, contrary to all available science at that point."

Dear Jakkelaas,
Humans knew that living beings could fly, and there had been many attempts before the Wright brothers to produce flying machines. Leonardo even drew up plans for one. Science knew flying machines were possible.

Einstein did not believe in a personal God who interacts with humanity. The following are quotes from Einstein on the subject of religion and God.

A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man.

I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (1954)

I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.
Posted by david f, Saturday, 19 September 2009 10:31:34 AM
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