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The Forum > Article Comments > Can we really replace coal? > Comments

Can we really replace coal? : Comments

By Martin Nicholson, published 10/8/2009

If a country doesn’t have adequate gas or isn't prepared to use nuclear power then coal is the only realistic option.

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Curmudgeon, you should read your own comments :-)

LNG is not LPG.

Coal will be around for a long while yet, adaptation will take decades.

If the world is to reduce GHG emissions, all alternatives must come into play.
Posted by Q&A, Monday, 10 August 2009 12:29:42 PM
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LPG is mainly propane and a byproduct of both petroleum refining and natural gas separation. It might be safest to assume supply will decline about 5% a year along with crude oil. However it only needs low pressure tanks around 15 bar or 210 psi. CNG which is mainly methane needs 220 bar or 3300 psi tanks which for cars will have to be made from wound fibreglass to save weight. So far I believe LNG vapour is mainly used to propel the ships that carry the cryogenic tanks. It is not worth the energy penalty to liquefy natural gas unless it will be shipped overseas. If we export too much we might not have enough for domestic use after a decade or two.
Posted by Taswegian, Monday, 10 August 2009 1:46:45 PM
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Ooooops! Quite right - my apologies. I was thinking of the gigatnic project they announced recently.. okay LPG conversion and the network .. not as extensive as the petrol conversion and the fuel is not as convenient, but still that's the major alternative in Aus, if the oil supply does become constrained for whatever reason.
Posted by curmudgeonathome, Tuesday, 11 August 2009 12:14:23 AM
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Not a particularly gripping post. As others have said, not much meat and a lot of soft opinion. Let's review a few issues: 1) the best way to use less dirty coal is to conserve electricity - an area with a lot of potential (including things like co-generation where the useful heat and electricity are produced simultaneously and more efficient power plants). 2) In the US, it looks like, if the true costs of coal are taken into account (environmental damage of extracting and using it by adding "clean coal" or carbon costs), it may be edged out by natural gas which is, for the short term, relatively abundant and cheap. 3) Renewables over a longer (20 year+) time frame, may show enormous improvements in technology and application and begin to undercut "cheap" coal and NG. The benefit of most renewables is that they are essentially "fuel free" and can operate at constant prices for years, unlike coal and other fossil fuel electricity sources which are whipsawed by changes in fuel. 4) Coal is certainly not clean (at least not without huge effort and expense), but *economical* coal is arguably less abundant globally than what was once believed. As the price of coal is driven up by a perfect storm of causes, we should use less and less.
Posted by Commentor, Tuesday, 11 August 2009 1:34:53 AM
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If we remove some of the market distortions (tax breaks, "R&D" , etc) that support coal and instead divert these to the proven renewables (large scale solar thermal) then the process of weaning ourselves off coal can commence.
So long as coal is "cheap" but does not have to pay it's way due to historical investments made by our parents and grandparents and modern "too big to die" financial support then newer technology cannot compete.
We may need coal reserves more as a chemical source than energy in the future so it would be unwise to totally exploit for energy now.
Posted by Ozandy, Tuesday, 11 August 2009 8:46:25 AM
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“And we could still be living in peace and harmony tending our farms, not fretting about climate change and enjoying our life expectancy of 38 years.” Says Martin Nicholson.

Unfortunately some of the 3rd world countries still only have the same life expectancy and it is because the 1st world demands the high standard of living it is now used to.

Using “cheap coal” will keep us in electricity for the foreseeable future but it will destroy most of us eventually.
It can be likened to a heavy smoker having the pleasure of the nicotine hit but heading towards catastrophic health problems, which will kill him.
The myth that it is not possible to use renewables as a base supply is trotted out yet again when it has been refuted by the action of some countries such as Spain which is now running on 40% of wind power now and that does not take into account the solar thermal plants being built.

Australia has no need of coal power at all now, with solar thermal and heated salt storage for overnight power supply. Any shortfall could easily be provided by gas turbine co generation plus wind.

There is no choice now but to stop coal fired power, if humans and most other life are to survive in the future.
Posted by sarnian, Tuesday, 11 August 2009 9:25:13 AM
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