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The Forum > Article Comments > Palestine-Jordan generates gerrymander and injustice > Comments

Palestine-Jordan generates gerrymander and injustice : Comments

By David Singer, published 5/8/2009

Any attempt to strip a current citizen of his citizenship rights in Jordan should be universally condemned.

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# John Ryan

I have never said Israel is entitled to the West Bank and Gaza. Israel is entitled to maintain a claim to the West Bank and Gaza under Article 6 of the Mandate for Palestine and article 80 of the United Nations Charter. What area is eventually allocated to it is a matter for negotiation.

# Keith

"The West Bank has never been Israeli nor Jordan land. It was originally part of the Ottoman Empire. After WWI it was allocated to the British Mandated, PALESTINE. (Consider the later UN created states of Jordan and Israel were also part of the Palestine). It's never been recognised by the world community as part of Israel or Jordan."

Agreed - except that Jordan and Israel were not created by the UN.

"It's [the West Bank]citizens have never been recognised by the world community as anything other than Palestinians. You are arguing that as the West Bank was won by Jordan its citizens are Jordanians. In fact it was only occupied by Jordan. It was never won from anybody."

This isn't what I am arguing. West Bank citizens were accorded Jordanian citizenship and issued with Jordanian passports. You need to distinguish between citizenship and territorial sovereignty.

"The people who lived there owned the place not the Jordanians."

Not agreed. The status of the West Bank still remains territory of the Mandate that remains unallocated between the Jews and the Arabs. It is disputed territory to which both Jews and Arabs claim sovereignty. It is "no mans land" at the present time.

"Yet you seem to be proclaiming it as Israeli because it was 'won' by Israel but you won't concede, as would be logical given your previous argument, that it's citizens would then become Israelis."

For the reasons stated above your attribution of this view to me is wrong.

"The only thing Israel is doing is occupying the place, just like the Jordanians. They didn't win ownership."

Correct. Ownership is still to be decided.

The rest of your reply is more of the same - attacking the messenger and ignoring the message
Posted by david singer, Thursday, 6 August 2009 11:27:19 AM
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About the same as you mate, you are what you are and as more and more people see through the increasingly flimsy defenses offered by the democratically(kinda) Govt with an acknowledged Fascist in it and the greater Israel people gain more and more power it will all end in tears.
When you and your kind get around to acknowledge that the Palestinians have a legitimate claim,the are not Jordanians or a non people we all might get somewhere
Posted by John Ryan, Thursday, 6 August 2009 1:26:05 PM
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I refer you to UN resolution 181 of 1947.

David your statement is very revealing.

'...except that Jordan and Israel were not created by the UN.'

It is a denial of the role of the UN and the world community in the creation of the state of israel. It is astonishing you peddle this garbage.

Unless of course you are a Zionist at heart ... and believe your god created Israel. haha
Posted by keith, Thursday, 6 August 2009 4:46:38 PM
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#John Ryan

I would be interested to hear your argument as to the why an Arab living on one side of the Jordan River is ethnically, culturally, religiously or nationally different from an Arab living on the other side of the Jordan River when both areas formed part of the territory of former Palestine. Leading Arab spokesmen see no difference and have said so on numerous occasions. What do you know that they do not? Please share your wisdom with us.

# Keith

Resolution 181 (29 November 1947) was never implemented by the United Nations because the Arabs refused to accept it. It is totally irrelevant to the creation of Israel other than the expression of the will of the UN at that point of time.

Jordan was granted independence by Great Britain on 22 March 1946. Israel declared its independence on 14 May 1948 after the British left that day leaving the nascent Jewish State to face and defeat five Arab armies that immediately invaded western Palestine.

Jordan and Israel subsequently being granted recognition as states by the UN and admission to membership of the United Nations is one thing. Saying the UN created Jordan and Israel is wrong. They did not need UN recognition to justify their statehood.

I am afraid the garbage peddler is you.
Posted by david singer, Friday, 7 August 2009 1:39:02 PM
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Well David, since you didn't deny it, are we correct in assuming you truely are a Zionist?
Posted by keith, Friday, 7 August 2009 9:05:13 PM
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Singer and those others who might foster the Zionist view would do well to refresh their memories of the actual history of just how the Jews were allowed into Palestine and the conditions of this occupation.
Arthur Balfour,Foreign Secretary to the British Government wrote to Lord Walter Rothschild, the head of the British Zionist organisation, on 2nd November 1917 quoting the British Government cabinet minute and known as the Balfour Declaration, the following:
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,and will facilitate the achievement of this object.It being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of the existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,or the rights and political status enjoyed by the Jews in any other country"
This remains to this day the basis of Jewish presence in Palestine and has never been honored regardless of all the imperious statements emenating from all subsequent Jewish leaders.It also reveals how easily and heartlessly the British dumped on the Arab population without any consultation.These injustices and this indifference exists to this day.
To read the actual history of this British aquiescence to Zionist influence read the full history in the "Washington Report" November 2005 Pages 44-50.
Posted by gazzaboy, Tuesday, 11 August 2009 2:11:07 PM
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