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The Forum > Article Comments > God's place in the Dreaming > Comments

God's place in the Dreaming : Comments

By Alistair Macrae, published 3/8/2009

The Uniting Church has embarked on a journey of truth-telling in relation to Indigenous peoples.

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Runner and the Angry Atheists have derailed another one. Gosh
Posted by Trav, Tuesday, 4 August 2009 3:19:00 PM
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Getting testy Runner.

Hitler was a solid Vatican boy, and knew very well he had to keep the priests on-side, which they all rather enjoyed too, especially when Jews started to cop it, along with homsexuals (did the boy-fiddling priests fear they'd all be in the ovens too, I wonder?).

I doubt that Stalin or Mao relied on 'science' of any variety to justify their campaigns, so you're off-beam there old chap.

I'm not sure that being homosexual is at all the same as being a paedophile, Runner>

A very long and unpleasant bow you are attempting to draw there.

As for 'the loonie left media', what a joke! Certainly no hint of any 'leftie' media in Australia, unless you're thinking of The Australian, that hotbed of riot-fomenters leading the world back into Communism, Diggers, Levelers, and other nasty types?

Oh yes, Rupert Murdoch, the well known 'leftie'.

Of course, how silly, you mean the ABC, don't you?

Well, even there they dumped the communist gardener sometime ago and I've yet to hear a leftwing voice uttered anywhere since.

I quite agree about wearing a ring to show that you won't be immoral before marriage. Much better to wait til after, and have a real go then.

And I agree with you that Rudd is a dead duck, and just as interesting. I'm rather looking forward to his early demise, but what/who next? Not Swan, surely?
Posted by The Blue Cross, Tuesday, 4 August 2009 4:12:37 PM
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It would be great if Indigenous Christians could respond to some of the issues raised here. Anyone?

Meanwhile, as a reporter who listened fairly carefully to the Indigenous contributors to the debate at the UCA Assembly in Sydney last month, a couple of observations:

Is seeking ‘truth’ via the Christian faith a doomed enterprise as Blue Cross suggests? No. But declaring one has found it absolutely is.

Is it fair to say that “untold damage (was) done to indigenous Australians by any number of god-bothering parsons, priests, ministers, elders etc bringing the 'truth' in one hand and a loaded gun in the other ...” (Gym-fish)?

And is it true that “there was no difference (from Aboriginal perspectives) between the agency of the State and that of the Church (Christian religions). The outcomes of each were exactly the same ...” (Rainier)?

For non-Indigenous people to make such claims on behalf of Indigenous people, which they don’t make themselves, is this perhaps another form of paternalism?

Most Aboriginal people I know say the missionaries stood between them and the guns.

Yes, the author is right that most missionaries rejected Indigenous spirituality. But they saw Aborigines as God’s children to be loved and protected.

Finally, to answer Laura Mathison’s question, Indigenous Australians prepared this report which was tabled at the UCA Assembly:

http://www.assembly2009.uca.org.au/images/Reports/uaicc.pdf
Posted by Alan A, Wednesday, 5 August 2009 12:42:34 PM
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A rsvp to Alan A

"For non-Indigenous people to make such claims on behalf of Indigenous people, which they don’t make themselves, is this perhaps another form of paternalism?"

The others can speak for themselves, but I do not seek-have not sought, to put forward any view on behalf of any Indigenous person, Xtian or otherwise.

Besides, how can you tell who is and who is not Indigenous here? Or can you tell how 'they' write from your readings?

How paternalistic is that?

I suspect that the nature of 'Truth' as expounded by philosophers and religious spruikers, with a capital T, is such that none of us will know it, irrespective of what we use to seek it, and if we were to discover it-what then?

A solitary existence whilst others caught up?

And while we're on the subject of paternalism, how's this line?

"But they saw Aborigines as God’s children to be loved and protected."

Hmmm, how paternalistic is that? Protected from what? Whitie created sin?

Why couldn't they just regard Indigenous peoples, where ever found, as fellow 'humans' and get on with them?

It's fine to 'look after' one's own children, or those who are unable to protect themselves in whatever situation may be on offer, but really.... "protecting the natives" is a tad old hat, surely?

The missionary zeal is a blind-faith force that discounts the existence of 'others', be they beliefs, feelings, emotions, values, peoples relationships, and seeks to impose a pre-constructed template of conformity, to exploit whatever resources are available under a blanket of untruths, shibboleths, half-truths and misdeeds.

'Oh, but they stood in front of the guns'.

Doubtful... there is a local story here of how down at the locally known spot 'Darkies Flats', that tells of how the pastor rang the church bell one Sunday and the 'natives' came a-running across the fields, for their blankets and glass beads, to be shot down with a hail of lead from the locals.

"Job's right", said the pastor to the gunmen.

Oh yes, "God’s children to be loved and protected", indeed.
Posted by The Blue Cross, Wednesday, 5 August 2009 1:52:29 PM
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Runner,

>>The reason many priests turned out paedophilles is obviously the employment of men with homosexual tendencies<<, is quoting soft atheists like Richard Dawkins. A long known fact. Homosexuality is natural, and if the Church is a gay club, so be it. Welcome to our secular world. As always, it's the non theists who accept the abused become the abusers. Your answer is the old Howard years Gay = child abuse discrimination. It is wrong, a lie and quite creepy to know you're on the inside [no pun intended] such that you easily voice these crimes.

No, homosexuality is not anything like child abuse. Homophobia is unwelcome, barbaric, archaic and born of guilt.

I have presented only hard evidence, with a minimum of elucidation. Ergo; the eye of the beholder is where any 'dogma' lies. The psychological conformity required to submit to instutionalised crime is famous for recruiting lackeys as your good self.

As for attributing what I feel, as well as what I think about the identities in the evidence I've referenced I'm sorry, but you've lost me. I do not know the feeling "hate". I'm a non theist, and thus fortunately rejected the teachings of "hate". May I suggest your [quite bizarrely tangential] attacks on Rudd and Obama - both already historical figures by "undoing" the human rights abuse labels earned by their religious predecessors - is perhaps the type of "hate" you were ordered to feel when free thought is in evidence. And, the only ranting in evidence. Projection matey, Projection.

Nonetheless, 'tis fascinating how easily you can project your own sewer thinking dysfunctionality onto others. Now if you care to address the evidence supplied, rather than parrot irrelevance, please resubmit.

>Would you prefer for them to tell others how many diseases they have passed on via casual sex. I am sure parents would be real proud that the kids have surpassed their own immorality.<

Are you insane, or joking? You suggest lies over honesty, not "honouring thy parents", and dying young is what Xtian folks aim for?!
Posted by Firesnake, Friday, 7 August 2009 12:41:10 PM
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