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The Forum > Article Comments > We can be adult everywhere but the workplace > Comments

We can be adult everywhere but the workplace : Comments

By Mark Christensen, published 13/7/2009

We're trusted to do our own deals on groceries, but not on wages and conditions.

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Fractelle, I'm not close enough to this to have a well informed opinion (and I suspect that most other posters are in the same boat).
My impression is that in the case of mines during a downturn "At least with award rates there is a level beneath which an employer cannot go" creates a situation where the only viable option is mine closure (or mothballing) for marginal mines. So instead of the employee having a choice between accepting lower conditions during a downturn or leaving to seek better conditions elsewhere they are left with just the latter.

On the other hand with an oversupply of workers in the sector during a downturn it's easy to imagine wages being forced down in profitable mines without any extra jobs being retained. There is a balance somewhere between "the market" and "regulation" and I doubt that that balance is ever going to be easy to maintain.

Work Choices would not have solved that dilema, my concern is more that the debate often seems to ignore the impacts of people not being allowed to make choices for themselves.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Tuesday, 14 July 2009 9:42:02 AM
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RObert,

There are stories in the paper every day about workforces taking pay cuts to ensure everyone stays employed. This is happening under the new system.
"If I was a worker in a remote area who liked the life I'd rather make my own decisions about what was fair pay than have Canberra make it for me."
This presumes that you are in the situation where you are the master of your own destiny. There are many people who don't have the resources (financial, education, capital) to make such decisions. If you live hand to mouth you don't have the luxury to be able to choose. This is what a managed labour market does. it ensures that people are not exploited because of their particular individual circumstances.
Just cast your mind back to the workchoices days. There were examples on a daily basis of employees being screwed by their employer, not because of the demands of the market but because the employer could get away with it.
In the theoretical world you advocate, everyone behaves ethically and the market acts like clockwork and people don't get exploited.
But this world is cloud-cuckoo land. Don't agree? Then how do you explain the Hardie Asbestos scandal?
The Hardie example is the real world. Given the choice between behaving ethically and increasing shareholder profits, they chose the latter.
"nuff said.
Posted by shal, Tuesday, 14 July 2009 12:04:06 PM
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I've worked through several recessions; I remember the 'strike torn seventies', and I remember that on tradesman's rates, the only time I could ever afford to buy a brand new car was 1973.
What struck me most forcibly in the hard times, was that the ones who really needed to go on strike, the real working poor, simply couldn't afford to do so.
All those famous strikes in the sixties and seventies were by the high paid miners and construction workers.
Yes, many of those strikes were frivolous and over the top, but at the same time, the benefits gained by the rich strikers flowed down to those workers who couldn't even afford to join a union or have a stop work meeting, much less lose a whole day's pay.
That's the real crime about enterprise bargaining. Miners are extremely well paid, but the flow on effect has become strictly local.
This is the real 'invisible hand'.It's not capitalism, or the free market that has increased the standard of living for the working class.
It was all down to the unions, and now they have been strangled -if not emasculated- by first the cruelest cut of all, Bob Hawke's Accord, and then Workchoices,
The gap between median and average wage is a direct reflection of the level of unionism.
Witness the school teachers.
Posted by Grim, Tuesday, 14 July 2009 3:35:47 PM
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"Does Gillard really believe society will be better off by attempting to force employers to do the right thing? Are Australian values, including our sacred sense of a fair go, so tenuous that we need FWA policing them night and day?"
I find it almost impossible to believe the author was serious in this remark.
Business has never been about 'a fair go'. It's always been about competitive advantage, and the easiest and simplest advantage is reducing wages, reducing employees, and getting existing employees to work harder for hopefully less money.
Is this author going to suggest all the noble Aussie companies which have moved offshore, did so because they felt this would be more of a'fair go' for Australian workers?
"...integrating philosophy with modern business and government practices."
Clearly a philosophy which can be expressed very simply:
I'm alright Jack.
Posted by Grim, Wednesday, 15 July 2009 9:51:46 AM
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Shal & Grim thanks for your responses to R0bert.

R0bert, do you really believe that the primary goal of a business is not profit? Are you so naive to think that all employers would not try to minimise wages? Why are you against minimum standards such as awards to ensure a liveable income?

Workers can and do arrange pay-cuts or reduced hours, when businesses are struggling, this occured prior to Work Choices and is happening now (as Shal has pointed out). But a job is more than just a wage, it is also about safe working conditions and the feeling of contribution; where employees feel they are valued and not just another resource to be exploited.

I wonder now that the mining boom has faltered, will the exorbitant rents be reduced as mining employees are laid off or have their earnings reduced?

""This problem, Slee said, first and foremost was regarding affordable accommodation, not just for mining workers, but for everyone in the community, especially the people who provide the services that communities require to function – teachers, doctors, service staff, hospitality staff and so on.

"People leave the area because it is unaffordable – and the people leaving because it is unaffordable are the check-out girls, the hospitality workers, the cleaners, all those people – and they are the social glue that hold a lot of things together and provide the services," he said.."

http://www.miningnewspremium.net/StoryView.asp?StoryID=100294

I can only assume from your comments that you are in a position where you can negotiate your wage or salary package. That is not the case for the majority of workers, like the check-out girls or hospitality workers or cleaners as mentioned above.
Posted by Fractelle, Wednesday, 15 July 2009 12:13:34 PM
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This is actually true. Sometimes if we are trapped in a situation wherein we don't have any choice than to sign the contract than being unemployed, this usually happens.
Due to the large number of unemployed we are forced sometimes to accept job offers because it is needed. Even if we don't love the job, we still accept the offer.
To some this is a dilemma but to those in need it is a blessing. Someday, somehow you will learn to love your job.
Posted by Jane Aires, Wednesday, 15 July 2009 5:54:30 PM
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