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The Forum > Article Comments > Masculinity, sport and alcohol > Comments

Masculinity, sport and alcohol : Comments

By Merete Schmidt, published 15/6/2009

A study in a rural town found that young men and women who rejected either alcohol, football or both became socially isolated.

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SJF, I'm not a "conservative" and I don't agree with much from the CIS, nor does it provide funding to any men's group I am aware of. Perhaps you could give us some examples of their largesse? I'd be interested.

Also, I'd be interested in the basis for your claim that men's groups in Australia are "extremely wealthy and well-connected". The only group of any significance that receives any funding at all, as far as I'm aware, is LFAA, which was set up specifically to support men going through family breakdown.

Fox news is also a US organisation that panders to a right-wing audience. I don't watch Fox news and I suspect that most Australian men are in a similar position.

The WEL was funded by the Office for the Status of Women between 1985 and 1999 when Jocelyn Newman, as the Minister, discontinued funding on the basis that the WEL was a front for Labor Party interests. I have no current information as to whether that remains the case, because it is almost impossible to find anything out about the organisation via the net.

Under just 1 grants program, the OfW provided funding of well over $2million to women's organisations in 2007-2008, many of whom are principally activist in nature.

http://www.fahcsia.gov.au/sa/women/funding/Pages/womens_leadership_development_program.aspx

How much taxpayer funding was provided to "extremely wealthy and well-connected" men's groups? Take your time, you'll have to look hard...

The Qld Women's Legal Aid service is principally funded to pay for women to take on their ex in the Family Court.

From their website:"WLA is based in the Brisbane and Woodridge offices of LAQ and provides direct services mainly in the areas of family law, domestic violence, criminal injuries compensation and care and protection matters. WLA also does some limited work in criminal and anti-discrimination matters."

It is my view that the existence of this and similar organisations increases the prevalence of unsubstantiated DV claims.

I do wish you'd be honest occasionally. The constant disinformation simply wastes everyone's time.
Posted by Antiseptic, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 10:43:47 AM
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Antiseptic

'It is my view that the existence of this and similar organisations increases the prevalence of unsubstantiated DV claims.'

That is utterly paranoid male-supremacist rubbish! Unfortunately, I know from talking to Family Court insiders and police officers involved with DV cases just how much so-called mens support groups are peddling this poison.

As for the rest of your long and unbelievably tedious litany of petty, non-sequitous quibbles, you have not made a single argument that I can address with any degree of respect. You have yet to undermine even a single point I made about feminism being mainly self-funded. However, you seem to be under the illusion that you have - so good luck to you.
Posted by SJF, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 11:57:07 AM
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SJF:"I know from talking to Family Court insiders"

The Qld women's Legal aid Service will only provide funding up to the point of mediation unless the claimant for aid can demonstrate either fear of violence (no actual violence need be demonstrated) or intractable issues that require a Court's decision. Which do you reckon is the easiest of those claims to make? Once again, take your time and try some research, instead of asking us to take your word for it.

SJF:"you have not made a single argument that I can address"

Well, that's because my arguments are based on facts, not Feminist cant and disinformation. I'm glad you've finally accepted that's not sufficient.

Perhaps you might even consider thinking before you post your claptrap in future? Nah, I know that's never going to happen...

BTW, I forgot to mention the 4 "alliances" of women's organisations provided with unspecified funding by the Office for Women.

http://www.fahcsia.gov.au/sa/women/progserv/equal/Pages/engaging_womens_org.aspx

according to that website:

"The role of the National Women’s Alliances is to:

* work collaboratively to provide informed and representative advice to government on policy issues, development and implementation relevant to the diverse views and circumstances of women
* represent the diverse views of women through consultation with the women's sector, their own constituencies and other groups and organisations relevant to women's concerns
* act as a conduit for the exchange of information between Government and the women's sector
* undertake specific policy analysis on individual areas of organisational expertise and concern"

That's on top of the $2.3million in specific grants.

How much did you say was provided to all those "extremely wealthy and well-connected" men's rights groups that you claim exist?

You might also let us in on what the "women's sector" that is referred to might be. I thought you said most feminist activity was self-funded?
Posted by Antiseptic, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 1:14:22 PM
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Antiseptic

‘How much did you say was provided to all those "extremely wealthy and well-connected" men's rights groups that you claim exist?’

Huh?? I claimed what?

I did not say that men’s rights groups are wealthy and well-connected. I said that the anti-feminist industry is. The very wealthy and well-connected New Right played a critical role in the culture wars of the last twenty years, which have directly or indirectly financed a huge network of anti-feminism lobby groups. There’s been quite a bit written on this – regarding both the New Rights culture wars and the gender wars, which were both designed to feed off people’s prejudices (and misogyny is one of our oldest and most embedded prejudices).

It was within this nasty culture wars climate that the largely pro-feminist, female-friendly mens groups of the 1970s and 1980s morphed into the misogynistic, self-pitying, angry, divorce-obsessed pack-men they've become today.

‘Well, that's because my arguments are based on facts’

If that’s the case, then I wish you’d tell me where those facts are. I can’t find a single one in your last couple of posts … anywhere. If there is one lurking somewhere, where is it? Just give me a grid reference.

Oh … hang on. Are you referring to all that slap-dash cut-and-pasting you did? Is that what you delicately refer to as ‘fact’? If so, then I beg to differ.

And as for that pathetically pitiful sum of $2.3 million that these bloodsucking bitches are ripping off the public purse (out of a government budget of how many trillion?) - now I understand why the handles keep falling off the doors in women’s shelters.

But you could have a point … There are poor little NRL players out there that are struggling on as little as a million a year – and there’s only so much that the pokies can finance. And maybe that $2.3 million could have been put to much better use in Afghanistan – like renovating the ADF officer’s mess.

I'm going into a busy period at work, so I'm not returning to this debate.
Posted by SJF, Thursday, 25 June 2009 10:42:26 AM
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SJF:"I did not say that men’s rights groups are wealthy and well-connected. I said that the anti-feminist industry is."

LOL, speaking of "quibbling"... There is no anti-feminist "industry" in Australia, but there is a huge publicly-funded feminist industry, with massive taxpayer resources poured into supporting it and growing it. There are whole Departments in every state, with a Minister, each one of which has as its principal function the propagation of feminism and the proselytising of Feminist doctrine, not to mention disbursing lots of funds to Feminist activism, as the FAHCSIA website link clearly shows.

I'm sure all the Ministers for the Status of Women are well-pleased with their decision to pursue a career in publicly-funded Feminism. In fact, I'd reckon all the deadweight hanging around those departments doing very little would be pretty chuffed at the rise and rise of publicly-funded Feminism.

SJF:"I'm not doing too well in this discussion, so i'm going to pretend to have work to do"

Yes dear, we know...
Posted by Antiseptic, Thursday, 25 June 2009 4:12:54 PM
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SJF, "I did not say that men’s rights groups are wealthy and well-connected. I said that the anti-feminist industry is. The very wealthy and well-connected New Right played a critical role in the culture wars of the last twenty years, which have directly or indirectly financed a huge network of anti-feminism lobby groups. ......misogyny is one of our oldest and most embedded prejudices...
It was within this nasty culture wars climate that the largely pro-feminist, female-friendly mens groups of the 1970s and 1980s morphed into the misogynistic, self-pitying, angry, divorce-obsessed pack-men they've become today."

With the greatest respect, that is crazy, angry talk. It is fair to assume you don't have a professional background, so what is your role that it seems to involve advocacy, or have I got that wrong?

I did a 30 second Google to pull some 'men's' sites at random and I cannot find this huge 'anti-feminist industry' you are so fearful of. Surely you don't mean sites like these:

http://www.campconnect.org.au/resources_media_and_literature.shtml

http://www.stevebiddulph.com/

http://www.menshealthaustralia.net/

http://www.mhwaq.org.au/

http://www2.nor.com.au/community/dids/information.html

There is a husband and wife MRA site which looks like it struggles by on participant donations, but it is small beer surely.

Most of the sites I found were trying to help men improve their communication skills and deal with their lot and their grief - usually at the loss of contact with children. I would support counselling services like that, wouldn't you?

Please list the sites and organisations you are concerned about and the sources of their funding. Because men's counselling and health don't seem to attract any government funding of note.

What counselling and support services do you recommend for men?
Posted by Cornflower, Friday, 26 June 2009 2:59:59 AM
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