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The Forum > Article Comments > Population growth, consumers and our ecological ruin > Comments

Population growth, consumers and our ecological ruin : Comments

By Tim Murray, published 26/5/2009

The new economy of real estate growthism relies on an immigration fix and birth incentives for its energy.

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Another choice, which I am only suggesting due to the seriousness of the issue, might be to vote for the independent or minor party candidate of your choice and put the major parties last, with any other growthist candidates as close to the bottom as you can get them. Put major party incumbents last of all. The idea is to do your best to make government change hands every time and to turf growthist politicians off the Parliamentary gravy train, preferably before they qualify for those handsome superannuation benefits. This strategy will work best in marginal seats, where the candidates will soon find that the business lobby can give them money, but can't force people to vote for them.
Posted by Divergence, Wednesday, 27 May 2009 11:07:20 AM
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Do you guys all work in the same office? This is an extended blog for the Unsustainable Unpeople society.

At the moment you've already given the enemies of the Greens a fantastic wedge issue. By all means start up your own political party. Try Patagonia.

Just because we don't walk around with placards saying the 'end is nigh' doesn't mean we're denialists - although there's great intellectual pleasure in that position. It means were against cranks and cults.

You guys are from the Genetics department of Adelaide Uni aren't you?

I suggest you vote for One Nation or have a crack at voting for the British National Party. They're more up your alley.
Posted by Cheryl, Wednesday, 27 May 2009 11:36:31 AM
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Divergence - you cannot support the article by citing other articles or whole books based on the same flawed premises, and wild-eyed alarmist view of the world. The only one I would pay any attention to the list you cite is the Scientific America item and, if you look closely at that, it is talking more about developing countries. There is nothing in any of the food production stats in the Western countries to even begin to suggest that a collapse is imminent - in fact, as long-term price trends show, the reverse is happening. Prices have risen in the short term for a variety of reasons which is a boon for farmers in Australia, but unfortunate for poor people. To balance that there are fewer poor people, both overall and as a proportion of the population than there was a decade or so ago? Why is that so? Look at trends in china and India.
VK3AUU, yes I'm aware of the current troubles with plantation owners. It does not affect the long-term trends.
Posted by Curmudgeon, Wednesday, 27 May 2009 11:36:49 AM
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Since the collapse of the Chinese economy in the Chinese new year, the number of poor people in China has likely risen by a substantial amount.

The price of dairy products has also fallen through the floor in recent months.
Posted by VK3AUU, Wednesday, 27 May 2009 12:19:24 PM
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One thing that is always missing from these "we're all rooned" mutual admiration societies is the vaguest inkling of a solution.

So far, the only proposal is to form the "Australian People's Party", as if another political faction, complete with power struggles and mealy-mouthed compromise, would solve anything.

The depth of the problem is at least acknowledged. The only policy that can be articulated, it would appear, is "transparency", with all others lumped under the heading "I could go on with this all day long". No doubt about that, I suspect.

Sorry, people. The answer is not going to suddenly magic itself into being via a super-green, warm-and-cuddly political party. The only thing that will be transparent about it will be the economy, which would instantly sink under the weight of no-carbon, no-immigration, no-industry greenness.

Think for a moment about the options.

If population is the problem, what is the answer?

Stop.

Having.

Children.

Now, that's all very fine for hip, urban greenies who don't (thank goodness) plan to procreate anyway. For whatever reason.

But think of the laws that would need to be passed.

Contemplate for a moment the manner in which you intend to enforce those laws.

Consider some of the issues you will have in simultaneously i) managing a declining population and ii) keeping out undesirables (read: anyone who's foreign).

Try to come to grips with the inevitable reduction, over time, in our ability to care for old people, or the sick. (Uh oh. Soylent Green, anyone?).

No-one says you have to like the way things are. And yes, it is not likely to improve.

No-one says that you should surrender your principles or stop believing that we're all going to hell in a handbasket. Because, in the long run, there is no alternative to our doing just that.

But also, please do not confuse self-righteousness with policy.

As an antidote to self-pity, and to contemplate the sort of society that might indulge in a little population control, I strongly recommend you read Rohinton Mistry's "A Fine Balance".

Have a nice day.
Posted by Pericles, Wednesday, 27 May 2009 1:28:03 PM
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Cheryl: you're on the money again with this one. Notice how this deep-green mob ape the aggressively xenophobic pseudo-nationalists of such creatures as One Nation, Australians Against (Further) Immigration, etc.? That is why I alluded to the more likely danger that such fascist tendencies threaten more as a mainstream influence, pushing the Greens into more overtly fascist sentiments at the grass roots. That's why their deputy boss - the ex-Liberal Party harpie-thing - indicates the sort of mainstream fascist sleaze that the Unsustainables, Eugenicists and other neo-Malthusian fascists so crave in Oz's body politic. Brown can say what he likes, but his figurehead status would be tolerated in their cause by its meek example i.e., he ain't about to have any kids soon!

The most sickening aspect of all this is that the higher immigration was mainly in response to the country's demographic degeneracy, whereby the population has aged into such disproportionately Boomer-and-older numbers, harder to sustain itself. Canada's achievement, compared to other G8 countries, should normally and healthily be a matter for celebration, hope and redistributive, anti-racist justice.

But not for the fascists, of course...they're dead against such causes and ideals.
Posted by mil-observer, Wednesday, 27 May 2009 2:01:23 PM
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