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The Forum > Article Comments > Debating the stimulus and the rights of the needy > Comments

Debating the stimulus and the rights of the needy : Comments

By Tristan Ewins, published 12/3/2009

Whether we call it 'Global Social Democracy', 'democratic socialism', or something else - the need for change is immediate.

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Ewins: 'Failure to invest in infrastructure and education now will impact negatively on productivity and capacity into the future and will feed into a “recessionary spiral”.'

Failure to use plain English, instead of neolib bureaucrat cliche, will IMPACT ON any attempt to seem other than middle class. Gee, "negatively on capacity" too: that'd be really bad!

Anyway, certain commentators' persistent bait-taking on "bank nationalization", a la recent calls by Gordon Brown and his trusty adviser Sir Al Greenspan, kinda gives the game away: the Fabian Society has passed its official imprimatur down to its (equally) pseudo-leftist minions.

Great. Now I can work myself into the grave to help pay off the several trillions of derivatives debt into the oligarchs - along with their brilliant green ETS/CRTS fart-bubble.

And then pass the same debt onto the kids. Ah well, fascist austerity it is then. Poses about restoring social democracy, on top of this bankrupt monetarist rubbish, are as useful as prayers to the tooth fairy.

The system is BANKRUPT - USD 1.5 QUADRILLION IN DERIVATIVES DEBT! How about declaring it so, writing it off, and removing all the parasitic scum that caused this disaster, instead of still following their fraudulent "advice"?
Posted by mil-observer, Thursday, 12 March 2009 10:27:46 AM
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Dear oh dear oh dear, like vultures willing the capitalist dog to drop so that they can pick over the carcass, the reincarnations of Karl Marx and Max Engels spew forth the old socialist rhetoric. Saddened by the loss of their great socialist experiments they are destined to soar above the world that “is”, waiting for the up draught to bring them the smell of death, the world that “was”.

Rumors of the death of capitalism are much exaggerated but it does provide the opportunity to get out all those really “scary words” to instill fear, uncertainty and doubt.

What have we got here? Well we have “the deep flaws of neo-liberal capitalism”, “recessionary spiral”, “the reality of financial and economic collapse”, “over-accumulation” and “recessionary correction”.

What about this one? What an absolute doozey. “Capitalism remains a flawed system: a system characterised by exploitation, cyclical crises of over-accumulation and waste; crises of over-production and concentration of economic power in the hands of a few”.

Now Tristan, you have our attention, what have you got in mind?

No, no, don’t tell me, let me guess. Well, we could have, let me see. How about? “Tax-payer friendly bank nationalisation”? or “social housing?” or “Tax reform is necessary to sustain the Australian welfare state”? or “widespread nationalization”? or “progressive alternatives”? or “minimise exploitation by investing economic and political power in the hands of ordinary people”? or “avoid destructive and parasitical speculative practices”?

What we need is “Global Social Democracy, democratic socialism” and when do we want it? “The time for change is now”.

Here’s a suggestion Tristan, why don’t you and our former “fiscal conservative now social democrat”, Emperor Lu Kewan, go to the former Soviet Union and perhaps China to see if you can get them to try this?………..again!
Posted by spindoc, Thursday, 12 March 2009 11:31:16 AM
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re: being 'neo-liberal' and 'middle class'. I advise you to read more of my work if you are confused as to where I am coming from. Ideas such as 'capacity' matter in a broader-than-capitalist context. You should note that I believe the people should be repaid in full for all our efforts to save an appropriate - regulated - role for future finance... You should see also that I believe there must be a strong role for credit unions and public sector banking...

re; The Fabian Society - I do work within, and am a member of that organisation... I approve of its potential role in facilitating debate by leftist currents in the ALP...

I believe there is a role for Fabian tactics - of gradual reform - sometimes 'harrassment', sometimes more dramatic reform... But on its own - the Fabians can faciliate debate for progressive ends - but they are not a 'vanguard' organisation...

As for me - I agree with this mission - but I also believe in class struggle 'from below'... I think there are numerous movements and tactics - which can complement each other....I know this is separate from my involvement as a Fabian Society member...

re: the 'middle class' comment - I've been living on an income which most would interpret as poverty for a very long time. Believe me - I am anything but middle class.

As to the comments re: Chinese and Soviet Communism... re: your criticism of Marxist language - I no longer consider myself a Marxist... But as my old lecturer Peter Beilharz says "He is still useful to think with'...Marx's communism will probably never be - but he was spot on in many ways with his critique of capitalism... We need, now, a new sythesis - incorporating the insights of all manner of political traditions..

Finally - putting my ideas in the same category as Stalinism (I presume this is what you're trying to do) - is kind of like putting all classic liberals in Australia in the same category as Pinochet. Do you think that's fair?

sincerely,

Tristan
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Thursday, 12 March 2009 2:05:51 PM
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Some people say the word socialism as if it were a disease. Isn't it just a word. A mix of the two serves us well. Au with it's megre population will need public owned amenities for a long time to come. Why flog off self supporting amenities why they serve as competition.
The govt should be in the buis; of bying a few service stations here and there just to keep oil groups honest.
Posted by slug, Thursday, 12 March 2009 4:12:16 PM
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I think i'm getting the picture Tristan. You "no longer consider yourelf a Marxist", well who'd have picked that?

You say you "also believe in the class stuggle from below"," gradual reform - sometimes 'harrassment', sometimes more dramatic reform..."

It might have escaped your attention but you can avoid all the energy you are expending on aggitation, you can vote like the rest of us.

Then you can get a job so you can break the cycle you complain about, "I've been living on an income which most would interpret as poverty for a very long time".

Thank you for the invitation to read more of your "stuff" but I might give that a miss. Do let us know what sort of employment you get.

There, I think i've fixed most of your problems, this consultation has been free.
Posted by spindoc, Thursday, 12 March 2009 4:44:08 PM
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Tristan just wants to replace one totalitarian evil with one of his own making.The reality is about centralised power.When one group has too much of it,another group suffers.Whether it be private or Govt,the end result is the same.
Democratic Socialism is a tautology.You cannot have democracy with a centralised Govt.The Govt will sap the life blood from the real economy,much like our State govts have done today.
Posted by Arjay, Thursday, 12 March 2009 7:27:23 PM
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Arjay,

A few points:

a) I am a liberal as well as a socialist - I believe in a comprehensive array of liberties: freedom of expression, assembly, association... I also believe in the liberty - and it IS a liberty - for workers to withdraw their labour...liberty, equality AND democracy are core - but there are some times when social rights and liberties are so important - they may sometimes even take precedence over the demcoratic process...

To clarify this point: Communists were right to oppose the First World War regardless of the crumbling of opposition amongst social democratic parliamentarians: and further - even if Australia HAD voted to 'dissolve' the Communist Party in the 50s- that in itself would have not been legitmate... Because we are a liberal democracy - not JUST a 'democracy')

b) I am a liberal pluralist: This links in with the other liberties - and assumes the right of opposing parties to mobilise and campaign on the basis of of ideology/program etc... I believe - in this context - with free exchange of ideas in the public sphere - and also government subsidy of such exchange - so that the process is not corrupted by corporate wealth...

c) As a liberal, a democrat, a pluralist - I believe that we ought have a strong civil society... There should be no simplistic opposition 'State: bad, civil society: good' - but there do need to be checks and measures... And also: a private sector dominated by co-operative and mutualist enterprises is not in any way 'totalitarian'...A strong public sector, meanwhile, can exist under such a societal form - providing competition - where appropriate; and providing natural monopoly: where there is significant social and economic benefit..

d) Finally - again I emphasise - my 'democratic mixed economy' is intended to be underpinned by these liberties - and by these 'checks and balances'. It's best not reaching for the accusation of 'totalitarianism' to easily: words quickly lose their meaning if they are consistently or inappropriately misused..
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Thursday, 12 March 2009 7:44:50 PM
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OK. So once the austerity program kicks in, just remember to make sure you call it "liberalist-pluralist". Same goes for whatever war venture conjured up by the debt-peddling financiers (including Ewins' Fabian bosses). When will we finish paying off the USD 1.5 QUADRILLION? Don't ask Ewins' Engels-style bosses in the Fabians - they're counting on the pickings from their various hedge fund cannibalizations, with tips from renowned "lefty" speculator-pigs like billionaire imperialist Soros.

Gee! We workers have the right to withdraw our labor! A bourgeoise backs workers' right to starve.

The Fabians dare not upset their leading members and bosses by touching on the obvious i.e., BANKRUPTCIES NOW! Then write off the debts and end the oligarchs' filthy game for good. Investigate and try the scammers who caused this mess. Return to programs of CENTRAL STATE CREDIT a la Hamilton, FDR, Chifley.
Posted by mil-observer, Thursday, 12 March 2009 8:10:44 PM
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Hey there mil-observer - you attempt to make some serious points - but for the most I don't think your mockery 'hits the mark'. That said, it would be good of some of the people who are following this thread could deal more directly with the topic matter of the article.

For the record, I was there on the streets against the first Gulf War - and I was there marching against the second Gulf War as well. I don't think there are any excuses for funding the Somozistas or the Contras, or the death squads in Guatemala, or the half million murdered in Indonesia, or the thousands of 'disappeared' in Chile - supposedly to 'stop the dominos' from falling.

And you'll find that my article criticises in detail the speculative bubbles which have brought us to disaster.

I'm just a bit sad, though, that some of these outrageous arguments have been made without many others questioning or refuting them...

Maybe they just don't take some of the more ridiculous claims seriously?

Again: more serious engagement with the topic matter of the article would be refreshing
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Friday, 13 March 2009 4:32:04 PM
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Did you get any badges, medals, etc., for your "lefty" credentials? Or just tokens?

Whatya gonna do? Call for the financiers' derivatives scam to be scrapped? That would be very un-liberal, of course. And Uncle Soros would not be happy about it.

But if you do finally decide to attack the root cause of the nightmare (and of various wars and puppet repressions), then just see what happens to your Fabian links, writing deals, and so on.
Posted by mil-observer, Friday, 13 March 2009 5:55:12 PM
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Well Tristan,my philosophy is one of small Govt,a healthy free enterprise system and rules that create a truely level playing field.

We have imbalance of Global power of corporates,Govt and the Central Banks.Individual autonomy has been lost.

Obama is just putting the US into more debt.Socialism whether it be democratic or imposed,is just as evil as the central banks who caused this fiasco.It is about too much power in too few hands.
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 14 March 2009 5:38:56 PM
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