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The Forum > Article Comments > After the Apology: still keeping our distance > Comments

After the Apology: still keeping our distance : Comments

By Maggie Walter, published 26/2/2009

Australians know too few Aborigines and too little about them.

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ALCOHOL.
Posted by ShazBaz001, Thursday, 26 February 2009 10:01:46 AM
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It's not just a question of proximity. When we lived in Katherine (1999-2002) the stark reality was that many non-indigenous locals had no aboriginal friends and few if any acquaintances.

Sport and art were the usual go-betweens. It's just not good enough. The struggle to integrate ESL students into mainstream classes was an ongoing one at the High School. Perhaps it's a symptom of urban life. Who knows the neighbors these days? Time we knocked on the door!

Kevin Rennie
Former topender
Posted by top ender, Thursday, 26 February 2009 10:02:17 AM
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This reminds me of someone saying "no one ever rings me". The question is the asked" do you ring anyone?" Unfortunately most peoples views of Aboriginal Australia are shaped by the likes of Sam Watson, Marcia Langton, Sugar Ray Robinson et al telling us how wicked we are.
Posted by Sparkyq, Thursday, 26 February 2009 11:58:34 AM
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How naďve and presumptuous is Maggie Walter to pronounce Sheridan’s claim that he wishes he had more aboriginal friends as “…obviously genuinely felt…” when she has no idea whether he is genuine or not; and she has not checked up on him to see if he is now actively looking for more aboriginal friends. No disrespect to Sheridan: the only person who knows if he is genuine or not.

She also “hazards” a guess that many other Australians feel the same way as Sheridan claims to feel. That guess is certainly hazardous; she would not have a clue about how “many” Australians think about anything. Nor would she have a clue how many of us do or do not have aboriginal friends.

And this one: “Why don’t Indigenous Australians know more about and know more Aboriginal people than they do?”

What! Why don’t aborigines know more about themselves? All the made up descriptions – ‘first Australians’ (when there was no such thing as Australia); ‘Indigenous Australians’, then Aborigines (when aboriginal is a common noun relating to the ‘original’ inhabitants of ANY country and, therefore, not deserving of a capital ‘A’, even though some galah with no right to change the English language decided that the original inhabitants of a pre-Australian land should treated differently from all other aborigines in the world); confusing, manufactured titles and names have certainly confused this sociologist.

And, let’s not overlook another fact that these abusers of our language overlook: no one living now can claim to be an original inhabitant or an aborigine; they are merely ancestors of those people, and they have no business carrying on and calling themselves anything but Australians.

We hear enough about problems with black Australians – at least from their professional urgers and trouble-makers; the very few black Australians I have known never caused me any problems – without feeling we all have to make friends with them. And, as a sociologist, this author should know that all people are driven to mix with their own kind.
Posted by Leigh, Thursday, 26 February 2009 12:19:30 PM
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I have friends. I never ask for their pedigree only their friendship.
Posted by Richie 10, Thursday, 26 February 2009 12:32:56 PM
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What bl@@dy rubbish, how the hell would they know.

When I played hooker for my country high school league team, I swung between a couple of blokes who had some aboriginal blood. They did not call then selves anything other than kids, & neither did we. Even out in the bush quite a few of us had more than a few strains of blood running through our us.

I went to the city, they didn't.

Strangely, I don't ask my friends if they are aboriginal, or part there of, & they have not told me. If they were the type to tell, they would probably not be my friends.

One of my best mates is a bit dark of skin, he even has some aboriginal physical characteristics, but I have no idea of his ethniticy,& you know, I don't give a damn one way or the other.

Our folk with some aboriginal blood will be much better off, when they, & the rest of the population feel the same way. We will all be much better off, when we no longer have twits researching these subjects.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 26 February 2009 12:45:24 PM
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Maggie Walter, thank you for a thoughtful and thought-provoking article.
Posted by Spikey, Thursday, 26 February 2009 2:34:03 PM
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Thanks Maggie, Stanners Boyer Lecture about the great national disremembering (amnesia) addressed the same issues.

Paul Toohey, the journalist, has made a name for himself on the basis of apparently knowing lots about Aboriginal communities but absolutely nothing about its people.

Being educated in this country means knowing how to avoid being tested for your knowledge of its first peoples. And if pressed, make it up.
Posted by Rainier, Thursday, 26 February 2009 2:53:16 PM
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We've had 2 apologies now (1999 and 2008), when do we get to hear the "acceptance", and usually with acceptance comes forgiveness and moving on.

Are we forgiven or will this be withheld? Is there yet a further apology to be given, is it to be a generational device now?

I don't see them ever extending a hand of friendship only the hand of "give me something".

We've tried reconciliation, but it seems to be a one way street, which is why it isn't working. Do you think most Australians find this ungrateful? It's our taxes at work here isn't it - we're entitled to an opinion.

There's only one way out that has been the only successful way for many thousands of years all over the world, assimilate.

I expect the usual piling on now, but a lot of people are just tired of being told it's our fault. Stop blaming the population for a small minorities problems, my immigrant parents have assimilated, everyone else seems to see it as normal except our indigenous countrymen (A term that includes women of course, so don't abuse me for that)

Nothing changes, the aboriginal industry continues to tut tut and waggle their fingers at the population at large, when it is the indigenous people who need to make a move, to improve their outlook on the world around them and accept it for what it is. Like the rest of us, we find life is a struggle - yes, now get over it and move on - stop being a victim.

I tire of the ceaseless demands for us to "do something". No, I don't want to - I want you to do something more than whine and bleat about your condition, get off your backsides and do something for yourselves.

I tire of the accusations of "invasion", it wasn't an invasion, you can't just rewrite history - it's irritating, and dishonest.
Posted by rpg, Thursday, 26 February 2009 5:07:51 PM
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It's predictable that we're all judged by those guilty of their own omissions. I know my neighbours...aboriginal/Maltese Australians on one side, better than Australians on the other. The Maltese-Australian husband/aboriginal-Australian wife regularly interact with us. I make them Christmas and Easter treats (as I do for my own family)and more. We talk most days at length, on all sorts of subjects...more than I see and talk with relatives. We recently attended 'grannies' funeral (the only white couple), as friends, not as 'whites'!
I don't expect anyone to share their lives just because they're neighbours or because of colour.
I match my clothes using colour, not my friends...I don't know the ethnicity of most friends and I don't care.
I know my neighbours ethnicity because their children and relations are constantly embroiled in race violence and drug/alcohol induced disorder and because they informed me. Why? Because they trust me and know I don't like the lawlessness but I will do what I can for them and their children.
I have lived beside great neighbours of aboriginal and non-aboriginal descent...and I've lived beside living nightmares who happened to be black in colour. I have witnessed damage to my property, neglect of their children and worse. Judge only if you are prepared to deal with the whole truth and act to improve things for them. This article offers NOTHING towards that end.
If I treated my children as my neighbour's daughter treats hers, they'd be taken from me. Despite requests from our neighbour for the children to be taken into care, they remain at risk. The fear? The repercussions of the so-called stolen generation...so these children suffer! They live with drug/alcohol induced violence and neglect. Their grandmother (our neighbour) was raised by one of the 'stolen' generation (her grannie), who was raised as a Christian and taught the difference between lawful and lawless...and how to care for her family and others. She was inspirational. Our neighbour does what she can for the children and the authorities are aware of the bruises and neglect...suffer the little children while no one will act?
Posted by Meg1, Thursday, 26 February 2009 5:32:02 PM
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Wow, so much bitterness there in the last two posts, why?
Posted by Rainier, Thursday, 26 February 2009 6:00:18 PM
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No bitterness Rainer, just facts...would you like to pay for the damage to property or solve the problems with the children or share the heartache of their grandparents?
It appears that your comments on making up what you don't know comes from personal experience - it's clearly what you do.
My neighbours come to me as friends and I go to them in the same way...how many aboriginal Australians share your friendship?
I agree with many of the previous posts...this issue is a two way street. Apologies should receive acceptance and forgiveness but it's easier for the so-called 'experts' to leave the open sore and keep picking at it and making money out of the 'cash cow' that the aboriginal industry has become.
My children have been through school with aboriginal friends (and probably many I don't know were part-aboriginal), I'm still friends with their parents, but most have left the town and become involved in drugs/alcohol despite getting lots of assistance with education, work opportunities, etc.
Sooner or later the money for inappropriate 'experts' who have no clue about reality should stop and all Australians should be cared for in the same way, with the same expectations...irrespective of colour. If you respect the rights of others, you should have the right to be treated with respect in return...as an Australian.
One rule for all would stop the young aboriginals who stole a mower from coming back the following week to ask for the catcher too! Yes, when it was reported as stolen and the thieves named, the aboriginal liason police officer informed the owner that the mower would be replaced but the thieves would not be punished as they were aboriginal. Next day they turned up to ask for the catcher too! I doubt they learned to stop stealing from that exercise, huh?
Wake up Rainer and see what is right for all of us, as people, not colours!
Posted by Meg1, Thursday, 26 February 2009 6:34:09 PM
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Meg1

It is refreshing to hear someone who knows what they are talking about. Most of the self loathing whites sit in pretty Suburbs never having encountered the theft, anti social behaviour and the total lack of respect for oneself and others that take place in many aboriginal households. My experience with many aboriginals is that the ones who want to break free from decadent lifestyles are shunned by other family members. Until the aboriginal industry stops blaming others conditions will never improve. Millions upon millions of dollars have been handed over with only despair to show for it.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 26 February 2009 6:49:26 PM
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rainer - it's not bitterness - look again, it's weariness.

nothing changes - the article is yet another in a long line of "gosh why is it so awful for these people" then look for external reasons - and never finding them because the reasons for their state are not external, they are internal.

Until we stop tolerating their indifference to improving themselves, they will not change. It's just too easy to lay back, blame the world, get another handout, house, whatever, at taxpayer expense, blame "whitey" and the aboriginal industry all nod in unison saying of course it's not your fault - it's society not giving you a chance to develop and express yourselves in the way of dream time or whatever confabulated nonsense takes the current fancy of apologists.

If this isn't true, then why is it the accepted truth of the Australian community. If it was Global Warming, then a consensus is happily accepted, but when it comes to this sad little industry you don't like the consensus.

Give us some return for our years and years of funding and putting up with this whole sad state of affairs and we might have some hope, but please no more lecturing us on what we have to do .. tell it to them.
Posted by rpg, Thursday, 26 February 2009 7:43:23 PM
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This dilemma could be the worlds most difficult problem , last 3 posts.

I believe I am one of the few anti racists in Australia . Maybe the world .
My kids think I have lost the plot , because tears well up in my eyes when I hear Bob Dylan , Slim Dusty and when Obarma won the Presidency and of course Judith Durham .

I know also how Lucky I am , I drew the skin color I did , for Aussies are the quality racists of the world .

I firmly believe Political Correctness now embraced by nearly all Aussies is the cause of this attitude , it's hidden , out of mind , it's like "cu**" even if your a heathen you wouldn't say it in the vast majority of places .
The Aboriginals themselves grow these attitudes , they definitely need to tidy up their act , an old saying "The Environment Breeds the Brute"
and of course now having bred the brute the "Environment" now doesn't want to like the result so pretends it's not there .......political correctness ?
One person who contributed most to this miasma was Whitlam . Station properties in the outback employed Aboriginal people as stockmen and laborers one station I know about had a couple of families plus rellies probably about 25 people , provided for all was housing , food , grog ,water , not a seasonal arrangement all year permanent , the only stipulation was 3 men were to be available whenever required .
Whitlam decided all the stockmen had to be paid white mans wages , so that meant 10 Stockmen had to be paid , what happened is history .
He would have done the Aboriginals a great service if he had stuck to flitting all around the world as he loved to do . The poor Aboriginals had to move into town where alcohol became an enduring problem and a never ending problem for the taxpayer .
Posted by ShazBaz001, Thursday, 26 February 2009 7:46:08 PM
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Leigh seems to me to be the kind of non-Indigenous Australian for whom the rest of us had to apologise.

After wading through his extraordinarily hateful diatribe above, one can only infer that Leigh is not only one of those 'white' Australians who doesn't actually know any Aboriginal people. but does so by preference.

Why do you hate Aborigines, Leigh?
Posted by CJ Morgan, Thursday, 26 February 2009 9:02:45 PM
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What a sad lot of posts. Where is compassion and where is the helping hand for the downtrodden? Not much in evidence here. Just selfishness and denial. Sad!
Posted by Spikey, Thursday, 26 February 2009 9:03:38 PM
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Interesting article. I think I am quite lucky to work with indigenous people on a daily basis, as part of a very ethnically diverse school population. About 25% of our students are ATSI students and the others are primarily white from a variety of British and European backgrounds.

One thing I have noticed is that the kids segregate themselves. I went into a classroom the other day and it was divided down the middle: white on one side, black on the other. While all students were learning the same things, there was absolutely no interaction between the two groups - it was as if the two classes had been accidentally timetabled in the same room.

Why the self-imposed isolation? I think the kids just had too little in common. The indigenous kids were not speaking English amongst themselves, and the white kids certainly had no idea what they were saying. Each group had simply gravitated towards like-minded people and formed social groups along those lines.

Interestingly, despite the overwhelming white majority, in our school culture calling someone "white" is used as an insult. I have heard many students say "I'm not working with him because he's white" or "I'm not doing what you white people say", but the reverse is not true. This is mentioned not as condemnation of black people, but as an indicator that the division still runs quite deep.

The athletic kids are a bit different - the students have something beyond race to draw them together and it is heartening to see that, by the end of Year 12, footy players or netballers or touch players or members of any teams are drawn together on and off the field because of this common interest rather than because of race. I think we could move well ahead of our current situation if this community spirit could extend further.
Posted by Otokonoko, Thursday, 26 February 2009 10:33:44 PM
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Spikey

'What a sad lot of posts. Where is compassion and where is the helping hand for the downtrodden? Not much in evidence here. Just selfishness and denial. Sad!'

Please suggest how you would go about helping the aboriginals instead of criticizing those you know nothing about. The helping hand has been their for many years by successive Governments and many white Australians. What has been your contribution that makes you so self righteous?
Posted by runner, Thursday, 26 February 2009 10:38:23 PM
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The author points at all and claims "ignorance". Idiot.

"Aborigines" are not aborigines for starters They are a huge collection of tribes various in nature and background. They are not one race.

Urban and rural aborigines are vastly different.

She says this moron wishes he had aboriginal friends. Why doesn't he do something? Pop down to Redfern with a carton under his arm. He'll have all the friends he wants in 5 minutes. Do it every day and they are mates for life. Serious suggestion.

But no, he wants aboriginal friends who are his peers. Sorry, they reject you mate as they too are extremely racist, towards each other as well. Those many tribes generally hate each other and fight at the drop of a stubby.

Moronic comments too. Shaz. Same proble for whites stupid.

Leigh. Screwed up statements mate. First inhabitants are still first. And they're not alive today? Really? Are you sure? No 60,000 year old Aussies? What on earth does this drivel mean?

RPG. Irritated are you? Not invaded? What do you call a country with one group of residents being replaced by shis full of people with guns and intent to kill and wipe out those first residents? Harmony? Of course it was invasion to them. To us? Discovery, exploring. Moron.

Don't you all love this "I don't know if my friends are aborigine" garbage? If you can't tell then they are not aborigines stupid. How many of you have ever seen or met a full blood aboriginal? By far the gentlest and nicest of people, untainted by white blood and the horrors that in between status holds. What was that? None? Right.

Urban aboriginals huddle in ghettos in exactly the same way that all immigrants do. We are not multi racial at all. We are a country with lots of small gatherings of many races. More and more the twain do not meet.

Why do Chinese and Vietnamese create suburbs where English is a foreign language?

For the same reason whites would rather move than have neighbours of a different race. We are all racists.
Posted by RobbyH, Friday, 27 February 2009 6:13:30 AM
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Growing up in the bush it was perfectly normal to have Aboriginal friends and we all thought of ourselves as simply mates with very little thought about whether we were Aboriginal or non Aboriginal. My mother’s best friend from the time she was widowed until the time she died was an Aboriginal woman. However since my time as a child there has been a concentrated effort to separate Aboriginal Australians from other Australians on the basis of race. This has been done through government policies that single out Aboriginal people for special financial consideration and special conditions. What follows from that is that Aboriginal people are perceived as different and separate and either viewed with sympathy or resentment. Neither attitude paves the way for equality.

Aboriginal people must also accept responsibility for their relationships with other Australians. Some Aboriginal people meet their fellow Australians with a baggage of resentment and deliberately keep their distance. I believe that resentment has developed because ‘sympathetic’ white Australians perpetuate the idea that Aboriginal people should hold white Australians responsible for the wrongs of the past. That sort of sympathy is short sighted and detrimental.

While there was definitely a need for change in Australian society regarding Aboriginal people it is ironic that the changes implemented to assist Aboriginal people has brought about separation
Posted by Heduanna, Friday, 27 February 2009 6:47:02 AM
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Sorry to say I have to join the negative here.
It is a two way street and keeping the focus on racial difference is helping no one.
When I lived in Darwin I actively approached the Local aboriginal locals: Asking directions, polite smiles, etc. I wanted to learn from a friendly local...
Mostly I would be ignored, often abused and sometimes threatened. The local mob would be sleeping under a tree every morning, and in the evenings they would accumulate their stash and begin drinking. Occasionally they would be joined by a white "long grasser".
I offered one a lift one day: He immediately called over his hidden brothers and started demanding I drive him all over town. He wound down the window and started abusing pedestrians. This is normal behaviour I later learned from the locals. I had to drop them off at the police station to avoid being kicked out of my own car.
The very few aboriginies who are moving forward in life often have to disown their relatives so they can reside in a civilised manner without exploitation.
As a previous post mentioned: there are over 250 different tribes and cultures. The issue now is the modern aboriginal culture of drinking, hatred, disrespect for all non-blacks and surly "we deserve better" attitude for all. This has nothing to do with traditional culture, and everything to do with spoilt human beings.
(Probably the last time I'll agree with Leigh and runner!)
Posted by Ozandy, Friday, 27 February 2009 3:21:57 PM
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Ozandy:

"there are over 250 different tribes and cultures. The issue now is the modern aboriginal culture of drinking, hatred, disrespect for all non-blacks and surly "we deserve better" attitude for all."

Please forgive me, but I'm now confused. Which is it - over 250 different tribes and cultures? or one culture through which you damn them all?

As one of your mob once said, 'Please explain'.
Posted by Spikey, Friday, 27 February 2009 5:44:30 PM
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RobbyH - I expected abuse and got it for actually stating what a lot of people feel about our sorry little industry, and you're right up there trying to hold up the noble savage image - well good on you, and good luck with it - it's good to have dreams.

So I'm a moron for stating the obvious RobbyH, that there was no invasion and Great Britain sent out a settlement expedition of CONVICTS, not an invasion force. Do you know nothing about Australian history, there were some soldiers, to keep the convicts under control.

They didn't need an invasion force to take over Australia from wandering groups of hunter gatherers. Sorry if the truth offends you, get over it sunshine.

In fact when did this business of an "invasion" start, well just before the bicentennial of Australian SETTLEMENT, and why did it take so long (200 years) for anyone to realise Australia had been "invaded", because it wasn't.

Spikey - here you go, an explanation, I'm surprised you need it - but OK - there might have been 250 tribes, what culture they had is debatable but the current obvious culture presented to the rest of Australia - is drunken violence and domestic abuse. Hardly the noble "culture" you're alluding to - some sort of dreamland, spiritual, one with the land rubbish that only exists when tourists are around. Your image of beautiful, caring, graceful custodians of the land is a myth, living in harmony with the earth and each other is a myth.
Posted by rpg, Friday, 27 February 2009 6:24:17 PM
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rpg: << So I'm a moron... >>

You said it.

And I'll agree, at least with respect to your knowledge and understanding of Aboriginal people.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Friday, 27 February 2009 8:59:04 PM
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Sadly, those with least knowledge or intent to personally act, are those who are the most judgemental of others.
I'm not moving house from white or black & never have. It's unreasonable to assume 'aboriginality' is obvious...it's financially beneficial to claim aboriginality, however distant, discounting all other ancestry in turn.
My neighbour's 2nd son's forced to live away from family in order to hold a job (which he loves) and keep friends (who don't live in a drug/alcohol-induced stupor/rage)...they're the facts. He returns once-a-year to visit family and tells me why he can't stay here each time. I drove him within an-hour-and-a-half of his workplace after his great-grandmother's funeral (well out of my way), with further four hours travel that night. I'd offered so he saved most of his bus fare as I was travelling to attend my own grandmother's funeral next morning. Arriving at the closest point I could take him, providing food/drinks along the way, he asked me to take him to his destination and for money. I explained again why I couldn't and how far I had to go, in another direction. I left him the remainder of my food/drinks at the relevant depot...and consider his expectation was unreasonable. I still persevere with our friendship because I do care and he's trying...but he still has a lot to learn about gratitude for other's significant efforts...and removing the 'chip' from his shoulder and the 'expectation' that 'whites'-owe-'blacks' that enters his conversations as a given, not a suggestion. His workmates and boss made considerable efforts to help him get to the funeral and told him to stay as long as custom required and his family needed.
My family paid their own way to Australia, they've worked hard and paid their way ever since...I neither owe nor own this country, I work to keep it free and fair and would like to see all who live here live under the same rules, liberties, expectations AND responsibilities. ONLY THEN will there be any understanding or consideration of one another as people, not colours.
(tbc...)
Posted by Meg1, Friday, 27 February 2009 10:27:54 PM
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(Cont...)
I'm tired of the 'industry' that feeds off this generation of aboriginals who are the true 'stolen' generation...those who've had their future 'stolen' by those who continue to feed them with myths and propaganda and allow them to live on drugs/alcohol/petrol sniffing and gambling while their children are neglected and fed on hatred and abuse of many kinds, ignored by the wealthy 'industry' spokespersons who write propaganda but do nothing personally to change or contribute.
I've heard blacks who keep a clean house abused for being too 'white' for doing so. Blacks who hold jobs abused for the same reason. My neighbours have recently forced their older son out of their home because they can no longer live in fear of his violence and drug/alcohol/substance induced abuse and damage.
Caring for my neighbours has put my own children at risk when this substance abuse and its consequences take over...articles like these ignore the reality and contribute nothing towards a solution!
These 'industry' elitists are costing generation-after-generation of aboriginal and non-aboriginal Australians any chance of a just, fair or decent life...all to ensure their own employment opportunities and finances are secure in the “cash cow” windfall that Australian taxpayers continue to fund.
2x$5000 baby bonus' on and a $4000 windfall between, no surprises discovering that my neighbour's daughter 'enjoyed' a drug/alcohol bender each payment, until they ran out...and a secure mental ward after the most recent payment was spent. The bruises found on her two babies at that time haven't meant their young lives are any more protected now than they were at birth.
Do the authorities know? Their grandmother tells them again-and-again and lives with the inaction, anguish, frustration and helplessness.
Caring-listening-comforting-acting where possible, is accepting a lifetime of frustration, putting my own family at risk from very real harm, property damage and constant stress.
Man's inhumanity to man is at its worst in the financial beneficiaries of this sordid industry and the clap-trap they promote...not from those of us who tell it like it is and try to pick up the pieces and help mend the lives.
Posted by Meg1, Friday, 27 February 2009 10:32:32 PM
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rpg,

Thank you for your explanation. I saw some drunken whites last night and I read about these drunken white fellers who beat their wives. What can you tell me about white Australians culture from that experience?

"Hardly the noble "culture" you're alluding to." Excuse me, but when did I allude to a noble culture?

"Your image of beautiful, caring, graceful custodians of the land is a myth, living in harmony with the earth and each other is a myth." Well, rpg, it's certainly a myth that I ever used any of those words; but I suppose people like you can make up your own myths. You can create your own imagined debating opponent and manufacture some imagined words and have a nice old argument with yourself.
Posted by Spikey, Saturday, 28 February 2009 12:23:37 AM
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A Great ambasador for Christ who happenes to be an aboriginal preached a sermon on the culture of the cross and told us that this earth BELONGS to GOD and we are only temparory care takers, Here today gone tomorrow so when we get all excited about ownership and rights and wrongs in the past we are in error for the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away so seek yea first the kingdom of God and ALL else shall be added to you. It is our choice what we do with this life but if we continualy hang on to the past we will never choose to embrace our destiny which belongs to our future. If you always do what you have always done you will always git what you always got.
Happy hunting boys. I have a good friend who tells me he is a Woolworths murray because he prefers to do his hunting with a palm full of money
Posted by Richie 10, Saturday, 28 February 2009 4:10:45 AM
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Spikey - sorry I do apologise, I had attributed some other comments to you for some reason - completely unfair and uncalled for of me.

It won't happen again.

(It was someone else's sacred cow I was offended by.)

cjmorgan .. "a moron", yes you are. Thanks for your interesting contribution .. nothing, again. Oh, sniping IS your contribution, well done, but try harder F-.
Posted by rpg, Saturday, 28 February 2009 9:56:06 AM
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The problem as I see it is that there is no formal repository or forum for all the idea’s put forward and more significantly, no representative body to whom idea’s can be put. If it is true that there are some 250 aboriginal tribes and cultures in Australia which are further fragmented because they live in remote, rural and urban environments, how can we possibly understand the problem let alone come up with an answer?

On the one side we have a community of non-aboriginals making suggestions as to how we might resolve the problems, on the other hand we have 250 cultures/tribes with no collective representation, therefore no collective view. How can anyone possibly achieve consensus on possible solutions?

Would it be too simplistic to suggest that aboriginals are invited to form their own forums at a local/tribal level?

Independent facilitators to be provided, funded preferably through tribal royalty incomes where applicable, State or Federal funding otherwise. The facilitators must be drawn from the industry/business community and positively not from either side of the aboriginal industry.

All issues, concerns, problems to be tabled and documented by each community then debated, agreed and prioritised.

An appointed representative from each local level takes “their” priorities to the next level, perhaps an area/regional forum where the same process is applied. An appointee from that forum now takes the common priorities to say a State level and then a National level. By which time a National Body with National Representation will (hopefully) have been formed.

Rule one of cultural change: “sustainable change occurs from the bottom up, not top down”

Now we would have the genuine voice of aboriginals, from them, for them and by their consensus. We would also have gained “appointed representatives” from local through to national level with whom we could plan the resolution of common and agreed issues. This also facilitates resolution of not only national issues but local or urgent issues that they have agreed.

It would then be up to Local, State and National governments or their agencies to deliver against agreed outcomes and time frames.
Posted by spindoc, Saturday, 28 February 2009 11:49:10 AM
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Dear spin doctor,
The wite wash brush has been tried and it doesn't work. The asimilition road has been tried and it doesn't work hence the stolen generation. We have tried to breed the aboriginality out and it doesn't work.Education has been tried. How about the truth for the truth you know in your heart sets you free regardless of race colour or cread for we all brothers in Christ , My son went to a supposed racest school where he was very popular even though he is coloured . He graduated with honours Engineering, Represented his country at football and is a well adjusted man today . All thanks go to Jesus of Nazareth .Change can only begin in the heart of a man and comes from the inside out . When you are forgiven a load or yoke is lifted and Jesus says take my yoke for it is light for he who the son sets free is free indeed.
1st a change of heart then recieve knowledge and wisdom . Without a
New heart you will never see for God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble and lowly of heart for if you read this and say what B S you know where your heart is so please DONT tell me about your problem for I am interested in the answer not your unbelief and remember it is your choice not mine so don't blame me.
Posted by Richie 10, Saturday, 28 February 2009 12:44:05 PM
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If the comments expressed on this Blog are representative of the wider population then reconciliation has a long way way to go...from both sides.
Blair Bartholomew
Posted by blairbar, Saturday, 28 February 2009 4:57:19 PM
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How profound blairbar...that would have to be the understatement of the century.
Richie10 sums up the solution in a nutshell. The solution is in each person...black and white and the real answer is in the beliefs we hold true.
Either we want to be better and do better or we don't. We need more like "grannie" who reached the age of 89 and told her large family that she didn't get there by being promiscuous, binge drinking, gambling, drugged out or petrol sniffing and she made no secret about her attitude to it.
She attended her church until she was hospitalised and died and most of her family have little to be proud of in their treatment of her in her last months when she became very frail. She was however, inspirational throughout her life and she reared her own children and many of her grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
The time has long passed for action or there will be few of the next generation of aboriginal to survive with a life of any sort of dignity. Most of the violence against aboriginals is by aboriginals and often within their own families...whether we accept that truth or not, reality isn't pretty. Face it and act or the consequences will be visited on yet another generation of innocent children who will grow up knowing little else.
There are inspirational blacks as there are inspirational whites...and there are examples of blacks and whites who behave abominably too...but for sheer numbers, the aboriginals who are destroying themselves are reaching proportions that demand a change of government and community policy and an expectation of personal responsibility.
Posted by Meg1, Saturday, 28 February 2009 11:08:17 PM
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Jesus, I've only read up to where rainier is being chided by Meg1 and another.
what I can see in the comments is 1 ignorance' and 2 typycal low intelligence racism' be it unbenown to the racist.. as if you were educated in Oz then your it... So the person that wrote this article is in a little academic dream world by the looks but her intentions seem honorable.
A couple of things... about apology.. Live up to it and pay the damn rent!.. no need to hear from indigenous oz, just like your landlord mate.. pay or piss off..back to whitey anglo christio invaderland.. uk of course..
Second.. why you haven't got any koori 'friends' " Don't trust whitey" is a law not a line out of a steve martin movie..
anyone who trusts whitey will be damnwell sorry. So go get yourself a few books and read about the ever disgusting manner in which britain ' white' has been the scourge of every indigenous person they have come in contact with, the disgusting christian ethic has been the mainstay of the rape of indigenous round the globe. so how about go bang your heads on the toilet wall and go talk to Mick Mansell or someone who can give you a slight indication of what sort of low life whitey really is. As is evident that we are a filthy rich first world continent with one of the poorest = sickest ( trachoma etc) indigenous population.
Cheers have a good day and go clean up australia sunday... because it may help you to feel good.
Posted by neilium, Sunday, 1 March 2009 12:33:22 AM
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Goodness me Nelium.

Your post is thick with prejudice, ignorance and racism; all of which can be cancerous.
Posted by Heduanna, Sunday, 1 March 2009 7:11:00 AM
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Dear Richie 10, the point I made, without any view expressed either way, was that a process was needed to permit aboriginal Australians have their own voice. Your response and that of Meg1, was “we have tried this, we have tried that and we have tried the other” Why is it we, we, we, we, when it’s about them? Give aboriginal Australians a representative body, a voice of their own and a mechanism for changing what “they” want to change.

What gives non-aboriginals the right to “tell” them what they want? It is a BGO (Blinding Glimpse of the Obvious) that whatever “we” have imposed in the past has failed abysmally to meet the expectations of aboriginal Australians. So why do “we” keep antagonizing and offending their communities with our patronising, pontificating and insufferably arrogant “solutions”?

You know Richie 10, the mark of a true racist is any comment related to “I quite like black people really” and you really did “hammer” that one. Strange really because you seem to be deeply religious with ethnic origins on one hand, yet you exhibit deeply entrenched emotional “Dis-ease” and schizophrenia on the other.

What exactly was it in my post that incensed you so much, it’s just a process drawn from standard “Change Management” principles? Was it the fact that it would give aboriginal Australians a formal voice of their own, rather than your voice and those other sickly bleating voices that have all the answers but have never asked the questions?

You’re a smart cookie, so could you please answer this two part question for me? If “reconciliation” is the answer what was the question? And what do aboriginal Australians (not we) mean by reconciliation?

Go for Gold.
Posted by spindoc, Sunday, 1 March 2009 10:47:45 AM
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Dear spin doctor,
Why change when you are satisfied, after all whitey supplies every thing that is needed to keep out the rain and hunger at bay. The point is UNLESS an indivigual wants change there will be no change. Idle hands make much mischief regardles of race colour or cread. The way you train up a child is the way he will go. I have not said anything is perfect and doesn't need everybodys best effort, But the world has thrown out the baby with the bathwater in the quest for freedom without boundries and it is always Someone elses fault in the blame game and "IT IS NOT WORKING"so I go back to my first point if you always do what you have always done you are foolish or maieve if you expect a diferent outcome
Posted by Richie 10, Sunday, 1 March 2009 2:09:06 PM
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Nelium, you judge all with a distinctly poisoned view of life and others. I've lived in the thick of the black-white divide all of my life. I have welcomed people into my life and my home irrespective of their colour or creed. Nevertheless, I do not accept that I have to change the things that I hold dear, lower my standards or house rules or live with constant feuding and violence and substance abuse over my fence...and the consequences that follow.
You epitomise all that I have discussed in my posts and your attitude towards “whites” in general is as racist as anyone who says generalised comments about ALL “blacks” as if one size fits all.
Do you feel that blacks holding down a job are too “white” also? Do you attack blacks who want to be educated and achieve alongside fellow blacks and whites and make a contribution to the society that feeds and sustains them?
If so, you are the problem, not the solution. You are the racist, not those you seem to loathe – for the colour of their skin.
“'Don't tust whitey' is a law” proves just how baseless your arguments really are...your reference to Britain as the invading force leads me to ask if you would have preferred another nation to settle here...I can't think of any who would have left the indigenous people of Australia better off than the Brits did...look at other “settling” inhabitants around the world and give credit where it's due. I, along with other “whiteys” have paid the “rent” all our lives and we'd like to see you progress to a rational, dignified life without that log on your shoulder. Grannies words might be an example to you and provide a cause for most aboriginal health problems...she didn't mince her words but she sure lived them.
Oh, and I have no ties to the UK at all...another racist assumption...and I don't hate those who are Brits or any other nationality.
(tbc...)
Posted by Meg1, Monday, 2 March 2009 12:52:38 AM
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(Cont...)
“spindoc” you could make your posts a little relevant and factual, I did not say “we” should do or tell “them” anything...read and comprehend...I said that “The solution is in each person”...not that “we” should tell them or do it for them...you also seem to lack any knowledge of the numerous indigenous councils, co-ops and boards as well as Kindy groups and government policy and advisory boards, the list is endless on opportunities (funded by taxpayers) that are available to and run by aboriginal people. “Give aboriginal Australians a representative body, a voice of their own and a mechanism for changing what “they” want to change.” They've had that opportunity for two generations at least...and too many are going backwards into a very undignified oblivion.
Richie 10 is right, change starts from the inside out...we are all responsible for our own futures and the answer is not to blame or wait for someone else to change things for any of us...
Perhaps he also touched on one of the main problems...idleness and the mischief and violence that result.
Good luck Richie and I wish your son every success and happiness...he's the real future and the real hope for change and reconciliation because he's made his contribution to it already, as you have in raising him!
Posted by Meg1, Monday, 2 March 2009 12:55:08 AM
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Something must be working because, especially in the cities, the vast majority of indigenous people now marry non-Indigenous people, work-mates and people they happen to spcialise with (and have done since the sixties): when you are 1 % of a population, it's logical that your potential partner might be from the other 99 %.

And there are now nearly 24,000 (twenty four thousand) Indigenous university graduates, with nearly fifteen hundred in 2007, a record year for enrolments and graduations. That's four a day. And 26 Ph. Ds in 2007 - that's one every fortnight. This year, close to ten thousand Indigenous people are enrolled at universities. By 2020, there will be fifty thousand Indigenous university graduates. Pretty much all of them will have gone through uni with non-Indigenous people, Asian students, African students, even Anglo students. Some might even marry fellow students.

By 2020, perhaps four percent of all Australians will have some Indigenous ancestry. By 2050, it will be closer to ten percent, thanks to intermarriage. Those Indigenous kids will have quite a sprinkling of non-Indigenous parents and grandparents. You might be one of them, so get the welcome mat out.
Posted by Loudmouth, Saturday, 7 March 2009 3:42:50 PM
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What a JOKE this all is. And people wonder why we have not moved forward, its so obvious people's attitudes have been passed on from generation to generation, if only they wanted to be educated on indigenous Australian issues then they would have a better understanding on the conflicts they face. If some of you don’t give a "hoot" about indigenous Australians then why bother writing a post
Posted by Billya, Wednesday, 25 March 2009 4:03:51 PM
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Dear Billya,
I have never found an answer in gaining knowledge of the problem. The solution lies within the individual. We all have inherited attitudes that continue to rule our lives and until we get out of the Racist Paradign and think diferently nothing changes.
It is natural for a dingo to kill fowls . If You rear a dingo pup from a very young age in a domestic situation he will still kill for that is his nature it doesn't change because you will it to.
The only answer is a heart transplant.
Posted by Richie 10, Wednesday, 25 March 2009 4:58:15 PM
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Oh dear, I had no idea the topic became of a dingo and fowl. It clearly is correct to state that we STILL have all these problems due to these "experts" who think they are right and know the answer, its been well over twenty years and they still don’t have it right - blame the experts, not the individual - they are the victims here and I am sure they get sick of been TOLD all the time by these people who think they know what’s best for them and they implement these policies etc to benefit them - YEAH RIGHT more like control them. It’s alright to sit back and say things or say "hey, I know an Aboriginal, but are you one? It’s so frustrating that they are then given the ability to talk for them or make judgement - how critical.
Posted by Billya, Monday, 30 March 2009 10:32:18 AM
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Billya, aboriginal activists have trumpeted about aboriginals speaking out for themselves for years. They have that option open to them now and have had it for years. The problem is that too many of the aboriginal activists themselves have abused their priviliges and the people they speak for! Let's not kid ourselves, there are good and bad in every situation and race...let's work to expose both the good and the bad so that a positive outcome is achieved. Richie is right and he's living the success of his words...you might like to try his suggestions and find some peace in your own life?

An angry and distorted attitude towards “whites” in general is as racist as anyone who says generalised comments about ALL “blacks” as if one size fits all.
I have black friends who are victimised by their own families and other blacks because they argue that holding down a job is too “white”. Do you, like these blacks, attack blacks who want to be educated and achieve alongside fellow blacks and whites and make a contribution to the society that feeds and sustains them?
If so, you become the problem, not the solution. You become the racist, not those you are angry at – just for the colour of their skin.

My neighbour's son is the only one working in his entire extended family...NONE of them hold down any work, most are involved with drugs, petrol sniffing, alcohol abuse and all are on welfare with little or no hope of a change. He comes home once a year to see his mother and has told me he can't come more often or live here or he'd be caught up in all the abuse and violence himself. He loves his work and fits in with his black and white workmates. He is ostracised from his own family because he works and stays 'clean'.

I wonder if you'd argue that he has turned his back on them or they've turned their backs on him a long time ago?
Posted by Meg1, Monday, 30 March 2009 12:23:46 PM
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Thank you Meg1 for your comments, but you can’t speak for Aboriginal activists. Secondly, if you had a government who would support these activists, Aboriginal people will actually get some where. Thirdly I don’t need you to tell me how I am to live my life. And, before you say I maybe the problem, why don’t you look at yourself in the mirror, just because you have "black friends" doesn’t mean you know everything or know the Aboriginal population - shame on you. But it is a step towards reconciliation with breaking cultural barriers and stereotypes, congratulations.
Posted by Billya, Monday, 30 March 2009 1:04:12 PM
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'you can’t speak for Aboriginal activists'
I wasn't speaking FOR them Billya, just their documented abuses of fellow blacks. There aren't too many of them who've used the aboriginal 'industry cash cow' to achieve anything for other blacks. They seem to end up with all the money and the benefits themselves, while the majority end up worse off than when they started their 'represntation' of the cause.

'if you had a government who would support these activists, Aboriginal people will actually get some where'

Not on the evidence of their past performance they won't. You could try Richie's advice and look higher.

'Thirdly I don’t need you to tell me how I am to live my life'

Your anger at all things 'white' needs to be resolved and won't be by perpetrating the myth that these activists have been looking after your interests in the past. I have not told you how to live your life but have wondered if you've been one of those telling other blacks how to live theirs and prevent them from working or keeping a clean house since you have espoused angry and bitter attitudes to ALL 'whites' without any basis being given.

All whites aren't good or bad, neither are ALL blacks...to argue that attitude would be bigoted racism.

'before you say I maybe the problem'
'you've jumped the gun there and maybe feel that you have to own some of the problem, that's a start...now comes the hard part, admitting that change has to happen from inside everyone of us. We've all got to let go of the prejudices and anger and hatred or NOTHING will change.

I don't pretend to 'know everything or know the Aboriginal population' 'shame on you' for suggesting I have. I do see the damage that is being done to people I care about and I see the same old stereotypes causing the same results...you've espoused many of them in these posts.

The change won't come from 'activists' it has to come from both sides of any problem and it has to come from within...that's the reality!
Posted by Meg1, Monday, 30 March 2009 1:33:56 PM
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How nice of you, painting them (activists) all with the same brush.

Can you then understand why some Aboriginal people feel the way they do with government in general?

And thank you for "seeing" the problems Aboriginal people face, its quite fortunate you did not have to experience what they went through and for some who are still experiencing it. We have been seeing these problems for quite some time now...have we?

At the end of day it’s ACTION and as you stated - from both sides
Congratulations
Posted by Billya, Thursday, 2 April 2009 1:00:26 PM
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Billya, you make many assumptions and accusations...but don't offer solutions-'the government' should make everything better. YOU are where the solution's at! You can be the problem and wait for others to solve it or you can change your attitude and position, no one else can do more than offer opportunities. I'd hope you aren't suggesting that blacks aren't given opportunities today? I'd like my children to be offered a tiny fraction of the opportunities and assistance that's offered to and rejected by, my neighbour's children in favour of illicit substance abuse and a life in and out of institutions and jails.

I've had windows broken by their last drug-induced and drunken 'adventure', which I'll have to replace when I can afford to...I can't go to the government to pay and they won't be taking responsibility.

I've not seen examples of 'aboriginal activists' achieving anything positive for aboriginals in Australia, it's been the Richie's in the population who've done immeasurable good for their own families and for the rest of the population, black and white! If anyone's 'painting' 'activists', it's themselves, and the picture isn't bright!

'government' is who-and-what-we-make-them... Until we stop voting for 'party hacks' from all-sides-of-politics, then we can expect things to get worse, not better. Throwing more money at the 'aboriginal industry' isn't the answer, treating all equally and demanding the same behaviour and responsibility from all, will go a long way to providing the dignity and mutual respect we all need, in order to make progress.

Richie mentioned change from within, looking to a higher presence for guidance and strength...acknowledging we don't have all the answers, to gain strength to keep trying and working at it, for the sake of others...not for the selfish moment of infamy that seems to be the goal of too many 'activists'. Those who've found that strength invariably seem to turn their lives around and regain their family balance and purpose again.

(tbc...)
Posted by Meg1, Friday, 3 April 2009 12:14:12 PM
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(Cont...)
Billya, others have suffered (in many cases more) than you or I may have...I've certainly had my share. Suffering-can-make-you-better-or-bitter...which do you choose? I've stood in the street with my grandmother's hands over my face to protect me as a child while children (of neighbours) pelted us with rocks...I saw the blood from my grandmother's hands and other injuries dripping down her fingers in front of my face...no 'sorry' yet. The same day-after-day walking to school past aboriginal children who also threw rocks to hurt us. Some Australians have copped-it-from-both-sides, some choose to respond differently and be part of the solution. Which do you choose?
Yes Billya, I've experienced it and I'm still experiencing it...don't let your bitterness and anger cloud what suffering others may have carried. You can choose to lug it around or look to someone who's died to free you from burdens none of us can bear on our own.

ACTION, yes...action from YOU...leave the responsbility for the actions of others up to THEM...you look after your own side and do what you can to work, study, clean, fix, produce...whatever it is you can do to make things better for those around you. If it means planting a garden to give your children fresh veges...do it! If it means getting a few chickens to teach your children about caring for living things...do it! You want to change the world? Do the little things well and vote for someone who cares for the really important issues and believes in things enough to stand up for real values, for the preciousness of life, for the dignity of all of us!

Next birthday, buy your son-daughter-mother-father, a chicken or two...build a hen house together...even if they're 10,30,50 or 60,80...it may surprise you how much you both learn, even about each other! Enjoy the positives you have and discard the hatred and anger...work on those things you can change for the better. You've seen what happens when you wait for 'others' or 'government' to do it for you...no one can...just YOU!
Posted by Meg1, Friday, 3 April 2009 12:21:08 PM
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Thanks Meg1
But where do you see Aboriginal representation in parliament, where do you see an Aboriginal minister in indigenous affairs? There are highly qualified Aboriginal people today that are not given these opportunities and if they are, it’s only for a very short period of time. I have no idea what you are going through with your neighbours and personal life and frankly it’s none of my business. At the end of day, everyone has solutions or ideas to fix a problem but I feel if you are committed and passionate these problems can be fixed but you cant help it when things change and funding is cut or change of government. Can you try and understand why we still have the same old issues today, it’s frustrating when you got to start all over again, and deal with the same old issues again, only with different people, going over the same processes all over again. Oh well, it will get right some day
Posted by Billya, Friday, 3 April 2009 12:56:30 PM
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Dear Billya,
The kingdom of man does not work. Whether it be right wing
or left wing it does not work. I can't put it more clearer than that.
God does not have grandchildren only children. It is personal one on one not impersonal he said she said ,or I think. It is about choice and free will. Believe then you see not the way of the world of see then believe. It is available to all But few follow. The price has been paid at Calvery so WHY should you expect us to pay over and over again. ALL are welcome to the wedding feast. You can't blame others for your choice. When you find yourself between a Rock and a hard place that is where you find God not on easy street.
Man builds kingdoms for HIS benefit and glory. The kingdom of God benefits all mankind. God is Love and would that none
should perish. Are you part of the answer or part of the problem your choice.
Ps I chose to follow Jesus.
Posted by Richie 10, Friday, 3 April 2009 3:19:05 PM
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Richie10,

Only god knows
Posted by Billya, Friday, 3 April 2009 3:35:06 PM
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Yes Billya, government spells frustration in exactly the same way for anyone who deals with changes in Ministers, governments, etc. not just aboriginal affairs...

You assume,of course, that only an aboriginal could understand aboriginal issues...I don't believe that's so. I believe there have been many dedicated politicians in parliaments across this country, it is often the party system that distorts some of them...there have been and are, good, decent independent members of the parliament who represent their own electorates and often do the same for other parts of the country where people feel disenfranchised from their own member of parliament.

You also fail to mention those aboriginal members of parliament who have served in various capacities and in various parliaments. I have met and had dealings with a number of them. One, I still remain in contact with and regard as a close family friend. I think it would be an insult to suggest that they should take on the aboriginal affairs portfolio just because they are of aboriginal descent just as it would be wrong to suggest that anyone who was part-aboriginal or non-aboriginal would be partly or wholly unsuitable.

Richie put it better than I...God only has children...that's a good example for all of us to follow...we're all His children so maybe we should be looking at one another in the way God sees us. When we vote, we need to look at who would be the better person, not what colour is his skin...does he have his heart in the right place, does he respect those he is meant to serve?

If a black man or woman were willing and capable of being the best Prime Minister this country has seen...should he/she be Minister for Aboriginal Affairs instead, because he/she's black?

(tbc...)
Posted by Meg1, Sunday, 5 April 2009 12:57:50 AM
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(Cont..)

Sometimes we can blind ourselves to seeing only our side, I've seen that God doesn't just do things...He does them and then some...and He has a GREAT sense of humour! Try doing it His way and see the results...and then have a laugh at yourself as well...because you'll stand in wonder and ask yourself why you've wasted time doing it any other way...

Yes Billya, God does know...and I think you can see that too...take a leap of faith and leave the hard stuff to Him...concentrate on what YOU can do to make things better for those around YOU by doing things with and for them too!

In the words of Martin Luther King...'the world bends towards justice'...eventually it does, it's also called good triumphing over evil! God's children turning back to Him...and His way!
Posted by Meg1, Sunday, 5 April 2009 12:59:09 AM
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Thanks Meg1 - again

You don’t surprise me with your comments, I only wish to state you don’t understand what I am trying to say but ok, you think you can relate - so I will leave it at that. If indigenous people had more representation on many levels of government we will not have these problems today and it’s quite simple to say it’s because they can relate to Aboriginal people more effectively. I know many Aboriginal people who would love to represent the indigenous people of this country and for those who don’t, it doesn’t matter, they can always be replaced.
Posted by Billya, Monday, 6 April 2009 11:09:50 AM
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I am sorry Billya,
but a choice is a concious decision so you know not only God.
Posted by Richie 10, Monday, 6 April 2009 11:54:08 AM
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If cows made cheese Billya, we wouldn't need factories to make it...but we wouldn't have milk either. There's always two sides and we can see each as a problem, or possibility...'milk' gives us more possibilities, but needs work to make the possibilties into realities and has to be handled carefully or it will spoil. That same principal goes for most things...the more effort and care, the greater results!
If all politicians were black, I wonder if things'd be much different? Look at Zimbabwe...I won't emphasise the point further but some apalling atrocities against black people have been by blacks themselves. Would that mean whites are treated better or worse? What are we solving, do we simply 'change' the 'victim group'?
My neighbour's son tells me of his great difficulties, remaining in contact with his family and friends back 'home', as they keep urging him to use the substances they regularly abuse. He's found the 'whites' he works with and for, have proven to be a better influence on him than any he's had before. He's happy, working and providing himself with a future he's proud of...without black politicians telling him how it's done.
Locally, a group of black women have begun mentoring other black families and women to turn their lives around and kick the substances they are abusing...they've been met with abuse and ridicule, that they're trying to 'make blacks, white', etc. Since when is it a culturally 'black thing' for substance abuse to be regarded as ok and acceptable amongst blacks? ...yet, amongst my son's friends, there's not one who's black that doesn't abuse substances regularly...there are also some 'whites' who do, of course but the sheer numbers speak loudest...

I see many people, displayed on media, who'd like to represent various electorates (every few years they line up again)...few succeed in being elected to those positions, that's life...for all of them...not just aspiring black politicians. A leader or aspiring politician needs to have more than the colour of his/her skin as their arsenal of attributes...what about their abilities? Don't they count?
Posted by Meg1, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 12:19:48 PM
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What do you think, they do count. Quite a lot of Aboriginal people are highly educated and able to do a job, particularly in politics, why doubt them? The problem with people like you is you find it difficult to trust them, and what do you expect when you have he media portray them a certain way or be educated to think the way you do.
Posted by Billya, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 12:38:14 PM
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'few succeed in being elected to those positions, that's life...for all of them...not just aspiring black politicians. A leader or aspiring politician needs to have more than the colour of his/her skin as their arsenal of attributes...what about their abilities? Don't they count?'

I'm pleased you think their abilities count, Bb but why would you assume that I doubt them? You are the one listing the colour of their skin as their main or only attribute that will ensure how they will behave towards other blacks...I challenged that theory based on reality and asked if it was important to vote politicians in based on their abilities rather than their skin colour...if they are green with pink spots and a tail, but are a multi-talented and compassionate person with the ability to do the job...he/she would get my vote, how about you?

'The problem with people like you is you find it difficult to trust them, and what do you expect when you have he media portray them a certain way or be educated to think the way you do'

Do you think 'people like you' sounds a teensy bit racist...do you mean 'white-red-yellow' people like me...I'm confused how it's ok for you to want to segregate 'black' issues, but if I made a 'people like you' comment, I'd be regarded as the worst type of racist...wouldn't I?

The reason that 'people like me' (black or white), 'find it diffiult to trust them', is usually based on cold, hard facts...like my life experiences...not the media, not really. There are only so many rock throwing incidents or damage to property or hearing the language and abuse next door...that one is subjected to, before it makes one hold back and become nervous of venturing forth again. That goes for whoever is the cause of the violence...

Faith and the knowledge that everyone has good inside, makes me try again...because I trust in God, who says...try again?

...good people I've known (black-and-white) show me I'm not alone in believing in the good in others...and trusting those who I've reason to trust, black and white...
Posted by Meg1, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 1:45:33 PM
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This is pointless, I hope I meet you one day,
Posted by Billya, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 2:39:59 PM
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I hope it's not pointless and I hope to meet you one day too...in better times for all of us when we can live and laugh together without being afraid to be white or black or pinkwithpurplespots...just people who give a damn about each other and learn from each other for the good of everyone.
Posted by Meg1, Saturday, 18 April 2009 3:35:13 PM
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