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The Forum > Article Comments > Memory, trauma and Gaza > Comments

Memory, trauma and Gaza : Comments

By Tanveer Ahmed, published 17/2/2009

With each Israeli show of force, their story of victimhood becomes less and less palatable for many people around the globe.

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Keith,

I'm not trying to show you to be a liar.

Seriously misguided, soft in the head even, but not a liar.

However I could find NO reports where Israel indicated that they had agreed to the truce on those terms. I'm not saying they didn't. But I'm not going to accept Hamas word for it either.

The Australian articles you provided links to are based on reports given by Hamas Deputy leader Marzak. I would merely like to see some supportng documentation from some group which isn't quite so BIASED.

Aid is getting in and Israel have opened some crossings
http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900sid/ASAZ-7PJHTJ?OpenDocument

you say >> "It's quite boring ... you should have understood by now that I only ever deal in facts. I know it's hard for you but you have to learn to accept it's usually the Israeli side that deals in weasel words, lies and propaganda."

I am laughing my ass off. You only ever deal in facts as revealed to you by Hamas and their media unit, or the loony left press. You have not once been able to back up these claims with supporting evidence.

BTW Rockets are still landing in Israel. Any wonder they aren't in a hurry to open crossings.

Hamas are are Islamo-Facist terrorist group. Your support for them is typical of the supremely misguided loony left, which expects Israel to play by rules their enemies openely scorn.

Why would Israel EVER make peace with Hamas when they SO OPENLY admit they will never honour any permanent peace agreement. That means that interim truces, such as is currently on the table, are merely breathing space for rearmament and training for new offensives.
Posted by PaulL, Tuesday, 24 February 2009 9:26:17 PM
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PaulL

Just because I have a different view from you doesn't mean you can behave the Israeli bullyboy and abuse me and accuse me of supporting terrorism.

Mind you I should have come to expect such unliberal behaviour from a supporter of a fascist state ... eh?.

But PaulL the reports came not from Hamas but from the Egyptian state owned and run News ... MENA. The people who negotiated the truce and who were set to announce it before ... oh what the hell ... you're to stupid to see. Look at this your own words betray you stupidity:-

'However I could find NO reports where Israel indicated that they had agreed to the truce on those terms.'
and
'That means that interim truces, such as is currently on the table,...'
Posted by PaulL, Tuesday, 24 February 2009 9:26:17 PM

Yep that's right, both in the same post.

Do you mean after all your denial, scorn and criticism you knew all the time there was a truce?

I sometimes just shake my head in disbelief at the idiocy of the Israeli propagandists.

Look at this too 'or the loony left press'.
Since I only referenced The Australian ... Well I've never before in my life seen The Australian refered to as looney left media! MY my in your paranoia you are definately breaking new ground.

Oh my God (The Christian one ... not your Warlike one PaulL) must I state again I do not support the violence of Hamas. I do not support the violence of Israel. I condemn the violence, hatred and fascism of the one-party states of both. I support the existance of the democratically operating and elected states of Israel and of Palestine, at the '67 borders.

Now no matter how hard you try, you can't say the same ... can you ...?
Want to know why? Guess!
Posted by keith, Wednesday, 25 February 2009 9:58:22 AM
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Keith,

Lets get a few things straight. I an Aussie with no Jewish background whatsoever. So calling me an “Israeli Bully boy” is just retarded.

If you thought about things before committing them to the thread you would realise there is a difference between ‘negotiating a truce’ and 'implementing a truce'. In the first instance, no agreements have yet been reached. There is NO TRUCE at that stage. Having a truce ‘on the table’ means that negotation of the terms of a truce is being undertaken. Ie TERMS NOT YET AGREED.

It is the second instance, where TERMS HAVE BEEN AGREED, that committs both sides to the truce.

You say >> “ Do you mean ...you knew all the time there was a truce? “

Since I have now explained to you what ‘having a truce on the table’ means you will understand how stupid the above rant makes you look.

You say >> “... not your Warlike [god] PaulL) must I state again I do not support the violence of Hamas.”

I don’t believe in god for starters. And you back up the above nonsense by admitting that you support the “democratically elected” Hamas gov’t. I see. You back the democratically elected Islamo-Facists (who have now dispensed with democracy ) who are committed, in their founding documents, to the destruction of another country. Thats mighty liberal of you I must say. You spend all your time on these M.E. threads attacking Israel . I have not yet seen a post from you discussing what Hamas should do to end the violence, yet you pretend that you deplore the violence of both sides.

You say >> “I condemn the violence, hatred and fascism of the one-party states of both”

This is pure stupidity. Israel is clearly NOT a one party state.

I support the existence of the democratically operating and elected states of Israel and Palestine, at the 1967 borders. Once the “democratic” Hamas gov’t renounce violence and terrorism and recognise Israels right to exist (and mean it), I will expect Israel to retreat behind the 1967 borders
Posted by PaulL, Saturday, 28 February 2009 11:38:40 AM
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So many weasel words Paul.

You've totally rewritten the result and history surrounding the Palestinian election and Israel's subsequent meddling.

'However I could find NO reports where Israel indicated that they had agreed to the truce on those terms.'

Paul I'll state the obvious to help you. This statement says you couldn't find reports. Clearly there were reports. Therein lies your undoing.

Paul of course I support the elected Hamas government ... doh ... that's how democracy works.

Paul I have often refered you to the Hamas election manifesto.
You in your disdain for democracy and it's rules seem to have a mental block in this regard. Get over it.

You wouldn't spout the nonsense you do about Hamas election if you understood how our democracies work and you'd also agree Israel is as close to a one party state as is possible without actually being one. Israel is a pretend democracy there really isn't much choice. You have all these people standing for election who try to be more violent than each other.

Tell me Paul, how do the major parties in Israel differ on attack policy? There is really no choice. They continually in their paranoia form Governments of national unity. And what about that extremist nutjob Russian and his policies?

Why can't you simply condemn the Israeli violence?

It's so easy ... come on try it... it might help open up your mind and stop your typical Israeli bullyboy abuse.
Posted by keith, Saturday, 28 February 2009 9:50:58 PM
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Keith,

You say >> “You've totally rewritten the result and history surrounding the Palestinian election and Israel's subsequent meddling.”

I have no idea what you are refferring to. Typical loony left rant.

You say >>“ This statement says you couldn't find reports. Clearly there were reports. Therein lies your undoing.”

You really are a bit thick aren’t you. This does not tally with my statement that “I could find 'NO reports where ISRAEL INDICATED that they had agreed to the truce on those terms.'" I also noted that this didn’t mean it wasn’t true. However You have failed to provide any evidence of Israel agreeing to the conditions alleged.

you say >> “of course I support the elected Hamas government ... doh ... that's how democracy works.”

Again you make it obvious how naive and thoughtless you are. So by your logic, democratcally elected means legitemate? Is that right? Mugabe was democratically elected. So were the Nazis. Were they legitemate and deserving of your support?

Just because Hamas have been democratically elected doesn’t necessarily mean the rest of the world should simply accept it. Legitemacy is NOT automatically conferred by being democratically elected.

The founding documents of Hamas amply demonstrate the fact that they are an anti-democratic organisation with genocaidal ambitions.

You say >> “ ... if you understood how our democracies work ... you'd also agree Israel is as close to a one party state as is possible without actually being one.”

What a load of absolute bullsh!t. Firstly I fully understand how our democracy works. Secondly I would not agree that Israel is as close to being a one party state as it is possible without actually being one. This is sheer stupidity. Its not even close.

If you had a brain and were able to use it you would know that Israel has governments of national unity more often than most countries for two reasons. Firstly they are under near constant attack from their enemies across their borders. North,South and East.Secondly, Israels voting system makes it very difficult for any one group to gain an outright majority.
Posted by PaulL, Sunday, 1 March 2009 12:22:09 AM
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PaulL

You shouldn't yell Paul that's called bullying.

I have been thinking about your previous post and especially your comment

'You spend all your time on these M.E. threads attacking Israel .'

Perhaps you'd be happier if I just sat down and said nothing ... is that so PaulL?

To stop your continual abuse I might just do that.

That'd fit with your ideas of Israeli democracy!

And especially with the ideas of that Russian Jewish nutjob.

You know in our democracy in Australia we once produced a similar nut job named Pauline who spouted similar rubbish. She was roundly condemned by all our elected representatives and was eventually thrown out by the voters.
In Israel such a nutjob is given legitimacy and probably a nutjob place with all the other cabinet rerun nutjobs.

We in Australia recognised such nutjobs are a genuine threat to our democracy because they spout rubbish that is totally at odds with our democracy and if they gain any sort of ascendency they can totally undermine our system.

In Israel no such concern is shown at all. Why not? Answer that poser for yourself PaulL I am not interested.

Now come on PaulL where's your condemnation of the Israel attack dog forces' violence and the mass shootings of women and children and other civillians.

Don't you realise 60% of the inhabitants of the Gaza strip are women and children?
Oh I'm not lefty ... I'm to the right in the political spectrum.

Mugabe and the Nazi's elections were not shown to be fair . The election in Palestine was overseen by the UN and Hamas was saiod by them to have been fairly elected. Israel stuck it's nose into the Palestinian affairs when it's lapdog wasn't elected.

Legitimacy and approval are two different things Paul. Why don't you understand that ... it's really pretty simple. Legitimacy is conferred automatically by majority vote... it's approval that isn't. Doh!

Paul check out the election manifesto of Hamas ... that's the basis on which they were elected ... like in every other democracy ... Israel excepted of course
Posted by keith, Sunday, 1 March 2009 3:49:59 PM
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