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The Forum > Article Comments > Memory, trauma and Gaza > Comments

Memory, trauma and Gaza : Comments

By Tanveer Ahmed, published 17/2/2009

With each Israeli show of force, their story of victimhood becomes less and less palatable for many people around the globe.

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SJF

You say >> “Really? OK. Let’s just, for the sake of argument, assume that Israel simply MUST defend itself from all these Hamas rockets.” Sorry, which western democracy do you believe would ignore 400 rocket attacks on one of it cities every day? Which western democracy would ignore the fact that this enemy has codified its intention to destroy you?

I simply cannot believe you are suggesting that any nation would put up with such attacks.

As for the Phalanx CIWS, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. Phalanx systems are point defence weapons. That is they defend a specific location. Like a ship. They fire hundreds of large calibre bullets per second and obviously these have to land somewhere. You don’t defend cities with them. They don’t work like that.

Israel is actually developing a missile based system to protect themselves from Hamas short range missiles. The difficulty is the very short flight time of the Qassam rockets. It’s called ‘Iron Dome’ and they hope to have it in operation next year.

Of course you’d probably expect the Israelis to live in their bomb shelters and ignore the rockets until a functioning system works. However NO GOVERNMENT could put up with such attacks. Nor should they.

This loony left idea that Israel is maintaining the current state of affairs so that it can persecute Palestinians is JUVENILE and is clearly incompatible with the facts. The PATHETIC suggestion that Israel is deliberately depriving its citizens of protection for propaganda purposes is SO PUERILE, it beggars belief.

And your pretence, that an idiot settler mouthing anti Christian slogans is somehow the same as the cult of death/murder that has developed in Palestine, is so monumentally flawed I’m speechless.
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/05/15/pali_children_nakba.jpg&imgrefurl=http://therealityshow.blogtownhall.com/2008/08/30/al_qaeda_in_iraq_learned_quite_quickly_from_the_palestinian_islamists_experts_in_exploiting_kids_%255Bislamofascisms_improved_methods%255D.thtml&usg=__WcNGPHy6YTR-LhOsnaJs9_dO7ms=&h=306&w=460&sz=99&hl=en&start=15&um=1&tbnid=PeoZc-iFuKh1tM:&tbnh=85&tbnw=128&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpalestine%2Bcult%2Bof%2Bdeath%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN
http://newsbusters.org/node/13040

READ THE HAMAS CHARTER. Then you’ll understand why Israel has a problem with Hamas. It isn't about a desire to control Palestinian affairs, or to persecute Palestinians. Its about SECURITY.

There is an easy solution for the Palestinians. Stop rocketing Israel. Recognise Israel’s right to exist and renounce violence.
Posted by PaulL, Saturday, 21 February 2009 10:16:14 AM
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PaulL

Please explain!

Last week, after the election, Israel and Hamas agreed to another truce. Israel was to lift the blockade and Hamas agreed to stop the firing of rockets.

Peace was returning.

Lo and behold yesterday the Israeli cabinent reneged on it's agreement to the truce and refused to lift the blockade. No reason was given.

No PaulL don't point to Hamas rockets ... because none have been reported fired. Have no doubt it'd be headlines if that had occurred.

I wonder what internal political agenda the Iasraeli cabinet has planned? Like to enlighten us ... without the usual propaganda verbage?
Posted by keith, Saturday, 21 February 2009 8:11:58 PM
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Paul.L

Calm down. There is only one country in the world whose leaders have never put the lives of its own citizens at risk for political gain – and that’s La-La-land. So please tone down all the sacred-Israel rhetoric.

'READ THE HAMAS CHARTER'

And don't shout. I have read it - in depth. It's a typically innocuous statement of militant defiance against a ruthless enemy - typical of all statements of militancy against enemies everywhere (e.g. 'Kill the filthy Hun!' etc.). It was written in 1988, in the immediate aftermath of Israel’s brutal military suppression of the PEACEFUL first Intifada that left thousands of Palestinian youths dead. In such a climate of mass grief, a lot of anti-Jewish feeling in the Hamas charter is to be expected.

The PLO (later Fatah) charter is also very anti-Jewish – but Fatah are now our ‘friends’, so we’re expected to overlook their Jew-killing rants, just as we overlook all the Arab-annihilation rhetoric coming from the Israeli side.

And thanks for the image of kids with guns. Of course, you would only see images like that in Palestine, wouldn't you?

Keith

There’s also that other little ceasefire-breaking incident back on 4 November – that left 4 Palestinians dead and was NOT splashed all over the world’s news coverage. And, of course, any synchronisation with the world’s saturation media coverage of the US election on the same day is purely coincidental.
Posted by SJF, Sunday, 22 February 2009 7:36:05 AM
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Keith,

I can't find any information on the truce Israel and Hamas signed which details when particular crossings etc would be opened. If you have such information I would be interested to see it.

SJF,

you say >> "There is only one country in the world whose leaders have never put the lives of its own citizens at risk for political gain – and that’s La-La-land. So please tone down all the sacred-Israel rhetoric."

Firstly, I never said Israel hadn't put its own citizens at risk. What I pointed out was the arrant stupidity of your suggestion that Israel is purposefully not defending its citizens from rockets for political gain. I note you had nothing to add regarding the Phalanx system?? ??

Secondly, how you link my pointing out of the factual inaccuracy of your attacks on Israel, with the suggestion that I think Israel is sacred is beyond me. Its hyperbole or fallacy or suchlike.

you say >> "I have read it - [THE HAMAS CHARTER] in depth. It's a typically innocuous statement of militant defiance against a ruthless enemy - typical of all statements of militancy against enemies everywhere.

A more monumental act of apologism, I have not yet come across on OLO yet. You really are either having a laugh, aren't you? Innocuous? You won't find another document more similar to Hamas Charter than Mein Kampf.

I wonder where you think "kill the filthy hun" came into Britain’s wartime policy during that conflict. Did the ruling British parties change their platforms to encompass the ethnic cleansing of Germany? I don't think so.

It just astounds me that there are people like you who refuse to accept the words of Hamas themselves. They tell the world they want to wipe out Israel, but you KNOW they don't really mean what they say?

TBC
Posted by PaulL, Monday, 23 February 2009 1:58:25 PM
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CONT,

Please SJF, use your obviously superior deciphering skills to tell us what Hamas mean when they say.

>> " "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavours."

or

>> "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."

How can you tell us with a straight face that these words and ideas, which Hamas leaders have repeated ad infinitum, are merely rhetoric?
Show me where ANY western gov’t has ever laid out its ideal, goals etc in a manner remotely similar to the Hamas Charter and I’ll introduce you to NAZI GERMANY.

Show me where ARAB annihilation rhetoric finds a voice in Israel’s GOV’T? You can’t compare fringe extremists of Israel’s militant right, with Hamas. Hamas are the gov’t in Gaza. They are the people who make the decisions.

Furthermore, Israel has the military power to annihilate the Arabs. They haven’t.

Hamas has repeatedly refused international community demands to recognize the right of Israel to exist, abrogate its charter and abide by the previous commitments of the Palestinian Authority.

Lucky we have you to tell us what they really mean.

As for the kids with guns ... Yes you would only see such INSANITY in a death cult state run by religous maniacs
Posted by PaulL, Monday, 23 February 2009 2:01:56 PM
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Here is the article anouncing the truce between Israel and Hamas. It was from a report in the Australian on 13 Feb 2009.

'HAMAS has reportedly accepted an Egyptian-brokered 18-month truce with Israel in the Gaza Strip that Cairo will announce in 48 hours.

Mussa Abu Marzuk, the Islamist movement's deputy leader, said after meeting with Egyptian intelligence chief Omar Suleiman that Hamas had accepted the truce in return for the lifting of the Israeli blockade of Gaza.

“We have agreed to the truce with the Israeli side for one year and a half (in return) for the opening of all six passages between the Gaza Strip and Israel,” state news agency MENA quoted him as saying.

Egypt will announce the agreement after contacting Israel and Palestinian factions, he said.'
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25048603-15084,00.html

And here is the article announcing the reneging by Israel on the earlier reported truce. It was from a report on Saturday 21 Feb 09.

'Earlier reports said that Israel would agree to an interim truce stage in which 80 per cent of goods destined for Gaza would be permitted to enter the strip through crossings from Israel. Crossings would be opened fully only after Sergeant Shalit's release.'

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25057844-15084,00.html

PaulL why do you always have to try to show me as a liar whenever I show you something that presents Israel in a bad light?
It's quite boring ... you should have understood by now that I only ever deal in facts.
I know it's hard for you but you have to learn to accept it's usually the Israeli side that deals in weasel words, lies and propaganda.
Posted by keith, Monday, 23 February 2009 2:51:20 PM
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